r/Helldivers • u/spaciousbarington Burier of Heads • 1d ago
DISCUSSION Mods have potential to really help this game, and they already are helping. More so then I think some people give them credit.
As a long time fan of this game, its sad to see the hate that mods are getting and I really hope that Arrowhead doesn't try to remove or ban them. I in fact hope they take a complete opposite approach, and embrace mods whether that be via a mod menu and modded/non modded match making or just using the fix mods like Bingus' to help them fix the game.
The way I see it, having a strong modding community is more often then not good for a game. Thinking of Skyrim, Minecraft, the Fallouts, and Risk of Rain 2, mods introduce a lot more to the game. While the game at its core may not be bad by any means, its undeniable the possibilities modding opens up in the way of playstyle, experience, availability, performance and so much more.
Even I'll admit, the mods that are deliberately crazy and wiping maps in minutes can be silly. Yet even those aren't bad for the game. People play those mods for a silly time and to feel uber powerful, not really ever using it for a long long time. Even if they do, those players will eventually stop or get burnt out of the gameplay.
Having experienced plenty of the game both vanilla and non, I ultimately believe modding as a whole is good for this game. Helldivers 2 is easily one of the most fun games I've ever played and modding has helped me personally with many of the problems I've had with the game for a while that have taken away from that fun.
Lastly, I don't think mods alone are enough to keep the game afloat forever with the current direction its headed. Getting armor "customization" in a war bond is the same level of bad as mechs in a war bond IMO. If they are able to keep selling us what we've asked for in the ever more bloated number of war bonds and not give it to us in base game, being a new player would be an even worse hell in a year or two. Especially when it comes to customization (the #1 way players express themselves) and progression which I hope we all can agree this game needs more of.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Tour987 1d ago
I'm not going to lie, the recent situation regarding mods and Arrowhead's capacity to listen is making me feel a little bit sour. I LOVE the game, I am not an "anti-diver" or "anti-arrowhead" or whatever the term is. I've been playing almost daily since release albeit with a few breaks. I have every warbond, and for the most part every armor set/stratagem and weapon (missing some of the Twitch drop n pre-order stuff) This is a game I've pretty much ALWAYS wanted to exist (the concept of the galactic war is SO cool to me)
From what I've been paying attention to, armor and helmet recolor is something Arrowhead has said is both ("Impossible/really difficult to do with this engine) and ("Not in line with their design") it seems like a lot of other improvements like Loadouts, Stratagem Bounce, End Game content (could even include weapon customization with this) all stuff the playerbase is REALLY hungry for, is considered by Arrowhead to be low priority due to the difficulty in implementation and low demand.
To see Modders (seemingly overnight) implement most of these requests (even with or without LLM "vibe coding") shows me that a lot of stuff AH has been saying is "impossible" or "at odds with the design" is both possible and welcome by the players for how it works WITH the design and it makes me not trust them to "drive the plane" so to speak. It seems like their priority with developing the game is not the same thing that a good majority of the playerbase agrees should be a priority.
I don't need mechs, flyable planes, Pink/Rainbow Helldivers, what I would like is if my helmet COULD match my armor set. I have every armor and yet only really use a combination of two-three sets because of how they match. I'd be much more willing to try a new armor with a new perk if I could find a drippy as hell look with it and the CowboyBingus "Match Armor to Helmet" does exactly this. It doesn't "break the design core" of the game, that stupid toothpaste medic armor I never use? Now I actually use it coz I can find a better helmet to match with it with the color mod. This makes me want to play more and even get new armor sets to try out different colors and if it has a new base color for me to try that might even convince me to buy more armors in Warbonds and the Superstore simply for the color palatte. I don't even need FULL COLOR CUSTOMIZATION to be happy, literally the matching mod is all I've been begging for pretty much since release to give me more of a reason to play with the huge amount of armor and gear I have. Gun customization was supposed to be this too, but they abandoned the concept it seems so now that I've maxed my weapons out I don't really have any incentive to play with that mechanic. It'd be more interesting if they added gun mods that change how the weapon works (like how duckbills work now, duckbills are good for some factions but not others, different ammo types would be cool but I don't think they're going to do anything like that if they can just sell a "fire ammo" warbond.
I've been on one of my breaks and wanna know what brought me back? Armor color matching mod. And it's client side too so it doesn't mess with anyone else's game. I don't want to break the vanilla experience of the game, like I said flying the planes is cool but not "Helldivers"
This is all just me, other players might be more hungry for Strat Bounce fix.
If I'm being critically honest, I no longer have the belief that Arrowhead's priority is me, as a player. We get cool Warbonds, new weapons, plenty of "treats" but I'm starting to see power-creep in the Warbonds too and I just don't have faith in Arrowhead's direction for this game.
The BEST thing they could do in my opinion, is to hire the modders and maybe start some open polls about things to add.
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u/Cautious-Bowl7071 Servant of Freedom 1d ago
The reason a lot of people are mad at Arrowhead is they have their vision for the game, their own goals and priorities. A portion of the playerbase has a different idea of what they want in the game. Then Arrowhead either forces things onto the players or ignores them. The mods just represent a "fine, il do it myself" mentality as a result of impatience frustration and newfound capability to change things (bingus loader).
I try to be fair as much as possible in discussion but as a long time critic of AH I will tell you they will never implement proper communication channels or fix more than a tiny amount of issues other than to try and sell another warbond. I already have a tinfoil hat theory they're going to change how sway works to sell the new armors in the warbond on Tuesday.
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u/Yin111 1d ago
I also reported a visual bug at launch on one of the armor sets where the back of the cape was visibly floating. They acknowledged it, said they were working on it, and put it on their internal bug list. Two years later, it still hasn't been fixed.
I also don't think AH fully understands that a live-service game isn't a one-way relationship where the developers can indefinitely push their vision while treating player feedback as secondary. The developers obviously make the final decisions, but the service itself depends on players willingly continuing to engage with it, buy content, and believe the game is moving in a direction worth sticking around for.
That makes feedback part of the process. Players don't get unilateral control over the game's design, but neither can the developer sustainably act as though its own vision is the only thing that matters.
If you repeatedly frustrate the playerbase, leave long-standing problems unresolved, and ignore feedback about the direction of the game, you're not just making people angry in the moment. You're damaging the long-term engagement that a live-service game depends on to survive.
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u/No_Consideration8800 1d ago
Of course they'll change sway. They sell bandaid solutions to everything. Chest wounds weren't serious enough, so they buffed the bleeding by 10x and oh look, next warbond has an armor to prevent chest bleed out. Same with ragdoll, ergonomics, recoil, and ammo.
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u/Jaydonius Lvl 280 | Autocannon King 1d ago edited 1d ago
"Tinfoil hat theory"
All evidence of things they changed because they released a warbond:
Servants of Freedom - Removed Connected-Fabricator demo-force to Stratagem Jammer (dubbed EZ-Jammers) when Ultimatum 1.0 was the easiest Jammer kill ever released
Freedom's Flame - Flamethrower nerfed before release of warbond, Breaker Incendiary nerfed the next patch after Cookout was introduced
Redacted Regiment - Introduced Stratagem-Ball noise to gut non-RRegiment stealthing
Entrenched Division, Python Commandos, Ironclad Democracy - Selling attachment-based Primaries after heavy player discussion
Ironclad Democracy - After improving enemy targetting AI, sells a warbond that has ragdoll-reduction as a passive
Helldrivers, Exo Experts - Selling vehicle variation after heavy player discussion5
u/Bring_Back_Challenge I survived an Unfiltered Brigade and all I got was this flair 1d ago
For what's its worth they never said any of those are not possible with the engine to my knowledge, the only time they said that was regarding one player having multiple mechs over 2 years ago. Cosmetic mods or mods that disable intended mechanics have firmly been said to be not what they want to do but not impossible and I never see how doing it is some "gotcha" anymore than having AI make a piece of art intended to be dark look more bright.
I have zero care for folks doing cosmetic mods and have zero care for other mods in private lobbies alone or with friends. On principle I am against using cheat buff mods in public games and that hasn't changed since playing Diablo 2 decades ago. I'm a simple man - if I'm playing in a lobby that is not explicitly stated to be modded I expect the game to play the same for me every time, if I didn't like how it played I wouldn't be playing the game.
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u/youMYSTme Star Marshall | Lv89 | SES Song Of Dawn 1d ago
I have no opinion on what the devs should do, but any game with such a dedicated community and playerbase, with so many hours played in it is going to live off its modding scene in its later/eol years.
See Monster Hunter World. Witcher 3. Skyrim. MGSV.
It helps keep things fresh and the game exciting for players with 500+ hours. And realistically the developers of any of those games can't keep updating games as well as a healthy modding community can after a game is eol.
Whatever they decide to do now, I just hope that in another 5 years, if the game is eol by then, they allow the community to "take care" of it with mods because that will make it a game people will always want to return to at some point.
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u/Bork9128 1d ago
The big difference between the games you listed an Helldivers is that heldivers is a live service game with public matchmaking and no warning or way to avoid modded lobbies. If you choose to mod Skyrim that decision isn't forced on anyone else.
On top of that while mods are great for a these games, most of the people that have played and enjoyed them, still played vanilla, either because they never wanted to mod or stuck to consoles before creation stuff was added. Mods primarily just make the game last longer for the top end of people that really already loved the game.
So no mods aren't really gonna help this game, because mods will never be common within the player base, they at best can make specific players happy
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u/Ludewich42 1d ago
Exactly. And in addition to the live service nature of helldivers 2, you have the galactic campaign - and modded lobbies contributing to it is affecting not just a private lobby but all players at once.
And mods for many other games are good because the core gameplay is rather bland and comes with lacking in core gameplay aspects (thinking of risk of rain 2 or mechwarrior V, for example). Helldivers 2 is great with just very minor issues - most of which are not even defects, just decisions that people do not like.
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u/Metagamer___ 1d ago
Mods are not effecting liberation. Liberation is specifically lower per player for each player playing. And as it stands, very few missions actually fail on any difficulty (which is to say mods making the game easier aren't having any real impact). The only way a person could be having an impact is if they were insta completing missions nonstop all day, which I can promise you, nobody is doing because nobody cares about the galactic campaign *that much*.
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u/Ludewich42 1d ago
Well, if I make a mod which lets me beat missions a lot faster and safer, than it _does_ affect the galactic campaign. Perhaps a modder finds out how to simply mark objectives as done when you enter the map, that would trivialize everything. Who knows what is possible if you can alter anything.
Do you know that? Do you really think that "nobody cares" is a good argument if someone publishes a mod which actually allows you to cheese through the galactic campaign? And the tank mods are kinda cheesing, I think.
And yes, the game is not that difficult.
Anyway, I would agree with other comments here that gameplay altering mods should be unable to contribute to the galactic campaign. And they should not be reachable through quickplay. In other words: they should be seggregated from the rest of the community who want to enjoy the game as-is.
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u/Zelcki 1d ago
Should have used deep rock galactic as an example instead
It's live service too and mods make it better as well, be it optimalization or things like massive content revise.
Deep Rock has less balancing issues and bugs so there's less "cheat mods" and they have a proper mod menu and modded sessions and separate modded progression for your account
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u/LEOTomegane think fast⬆️➡️⬇️⬇️➡️ 1d ago
While officially-integrated mod support is a great thing that is nearly always the best possible solution to handling mods, it's also extremely difficult to handle without deciding that was the game plan before you start making your game. That framework is highly interconnected in ways that, should Helldivers try to implement it the same way DRG does, would require basically ripping the game apart and rebuilding it.
Unfortunately the only options they have that'll actually work are barring mods almost-entirely or just doing nothing at all. I suspect they'll do nothing at all.
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u/Zelcki 17h ago
AH made an announcement that they are preparing to make an announcement about the modding situation, so maybe they'll do something. If they didnt do anything they'd just say so, no? I guess we'll see after tomorrow
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u/LEOTomegane think fast⬆️➡️⬇️⬇️➡️ 13h ago
My guess is that they're going to say, basically, "hey guys we love how enthusiastic and creative you are, just pls don't mod in public games thanks" and then do nothing to actually enforce it
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u/Bork9128 1d ago
I mean I don't think any one would have issues with mods if when you started up a modded game you got separated out from the cut out from the rest of the unmodded population without Galatic war contributions.
But Deep rock was less interconnected then helldivers and was always lobby based games. Even then it took them a lot of time to make it work. Shoehorning in proper mod support after the fact is never easy
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u/Zelcki 1d ago
True, just giving a proper example of a game where it's done right and is a live service.
There are client and server mods so you can still play with visual mods all you want and people joining you don't have to install them.
Which is also nice, a sever list would make it much easier to join people, that'd true. I'm sure that people who really want to play with mods will sort themselves out
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u/ExcessumTr HD1 Veteran 1d ago
Removing moving from maxigun or mg shooting leveller rounds not balancing mods, they are cheats
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u/Noctium3 Steam 1d ago
According to Arsenal's player count, the majority of PC players use mods. So.
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u/Bork9128 1d ago edited 1d ago
I mean I don't know now they generate that number so I wouldn't put too much stake in but even their own websites advertises daily user average isn't even 1/3 of steams current players. All of that is also ignoring the Xbox and ps players that also wouldn't be using mods. So no they aren't the majority
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u/TropicalxDepression 1d ago
"PC players" ...
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u/Bork9128 1d ago edited 1d ago
And I explained that I don't actually see evidence that they are actually a majority of PC players.
I am just also pointing out that regardless of how PC players feel about mods they share a gaming environment with people that can't because they are on console. Having an inconsistent experience like that is gonna end up feeling really bad. As much as DRG gets touted as a solution they don't have cross play issues because the console and windows store version don't have the mods
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u/BurntMoonChips 1d ago
For the last time, the new armor is NOT armor customization. You CANNOT choose the color. It’s just like all other armors, you cannot pick the color, you cannot make it match other sets color.
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u/blackshinningrise 1d ago
mods been adding flavor to gameplay in alot of ways, cant really play without it anymore
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u/MazdaTiger 🟣Orb Cultist🟣 1d ago
the thing is, vibecoding exist, you will never know the quality of the mod anymore because of it
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u/Snoo_63003 1d ago
Did you always know the quality of the mod before vibecoding existed?
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u/sun_and_water 1d ago
Of course not always. What he's saying is true now that you can basically never know with the influx of mods made by people with no reputation. Functionality and upkeep are likely to be some relegated metrics. Nothing worse than a great mod that breaks forever after an update, and that'll be seen a lot since the passion to create is replaced with the desire to crank out a unit and move on.
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u/MazdaTiger 🟣Orb Cultist🟣 1d ago
bad ones gets forgotten due to lack of updates
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u/peepooprogamer 1d ago
and how is it not the same case here? are you telling me vibe coded mods are well coded?
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u/MazdaTiger 🟣Orb Cultist🟣 1d ago
it means the vibecoded ones are worse since it's trained on everything including the bad rating ones
i suggest look at the "decompiled" adobe stuff, it is riddled with bugs
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u/peepooprogamer 14h ago
yea adobe the uh gold standard of software before AI
If its shit coded whether it be with ai or not its not gonna get traction simple as
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u/Azrael_Hellcat [REDACTED] 1d ago
Ok, wtf is "vibecoding"?
I keep seeing this word here and there in association with bad coding but wtf is this?
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u/Maelstronnar 1d ago
AI coding. So whoever made it doesn't actually know their own code or how to fix it if it breaks.
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u/AutomatonWantsToast Super Sheriff 1d ago
You let ai do all the coding and without checkin for errors and stuff you launch it. Its shit and very open for malware inputs.
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u/Pan_Wanilia Servant of Freedom 1d ago
In programmers lingo it's someone who programms without plan or much thinking which leads to chaotic code that for all but the coder (sometimes them included) is incomprehensible. AI codes areworking stuff not good by professional standards and unless you are a good programmer you won't be able to clean it into more efficient code or even understand it
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u/Yin111 1d ago
What exactly makes code “professional standard” because a human manually typed it?
Professional-quality software is normally judged by things like correctness, maintainability, architecture, testing, error handling, security and performance. None of those qualities inherently require every line to have been manually written.
AI can generate terrible code. Humans can also write terrible code. Arrowhead themselves made terrible code. The meaningful question is whether the resulting code meets those standards after review and testing.
If you want to argue that AI-assisted code is statistically more likely to fail those standards, that's at least a claim that could be supported with evidence. But simply saying “AI code isn't professional-quality” is treating authorship as a quality metric without explaining why.
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u/Pan_Wanilia Servant of Freedom 1d ago
Profesional standards would be no bloated and unnecessary commands so it uses as little resources of your hardware and is done in organize way so someone else can read it and understand it without eassay worth of comments of explanations
AI I do not trust and I'd had to check everything to be sure that it didn't do stuff inefficiently. Like the Yandere dev code was a mess due to him doing messy code and a lot of weird unnecessary lines that could have be cut and replace with simple commands.
Also I do admit I'm not a programmer and have surface lvl understanding from a friend who programms for the living
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u/Yin111 1d ago
What you've described are qualities of good code, not qualities exclusive to human-written code.
Efficiency, readability, maintainability, and avoiding unnecessary operations are all things AI-generated code can be evaluated and improved against. There's nothing inherently preventing AI from producing code that meets those standards.
And your Yandere Dev example actually illustrates my original point. Human developers can produce inefficient, bloated, or poorly structured code too. The fact that a human wrote something doesn't automatically make it professionally sound.
I also agree that AI-generated code shouldn't be blindly trusted. It needs verification, testing, and review appropriate to what it's being used for. But that isn't the same as saying AI-generated code inherently fails professional standards.
There's also a distinction between code being unnecessarily complicated and code simply being longer. Sometimes additional code improves readability, error handling, and maintainability. Fewer lines or commands don't automatically mean better software.
I think the important distinction here is between someone blindly accepting whatever an AI produces and someone using AI as a development tool while actively testing, debugging, and refining the results.
Those are two very different approaches, yet discussions about AI coding frequently treat them as interchangeable.
If your argument is that AI makes it easier for inexperienced people to produce poorly maintained software, that's a reasonable concern worth discussing. But that's quite different from claiming AI-generated code itself cannot meet professional standards.
Ultimately, that's a quality assurance and development responsibility issue. Regardless of whether code is written manually or generated with AI, the person creating and distributing the software is responsible for ensuring it meets the necessary standards.
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u/Yin111 1d ago
I think “vibe coding” is being used too broadly here.
Vibe coding originally referred to a particular way of using AI: you describe what you want, let the AI generate the implementation, keep prompting until the result appears to work, and largely stop concerning yourself with the underlying code.
The important part is not simply that AI wrote code. The important part is that the user is relying on the output without properly understanding, reviewing or validating it.
That distinction matters.
If I ask an AI to implement something, then inspect the result, test it, find failures, send logs back, make corrections, run regression tests and understand the behavior well enough to maintain it, that is not the same development process as blindly accepting whatever the AI generates.
Calling both of those “vibe coding” creates a logical problem. You take legitimate criticisms of one workflow:
“the author may not understand the implementation”
“the code may be poorly tested”
“the author may not be able to fix it”and then apply them automatically to every AI-assisted project merely because AI was involved.
That does not follow.
A human developer can also copy code they don't understand, fail to test something, introduce security problems, corrupt saves or abandon broken features. Those are failures of development, review and QA. They are not uniquely caused by AI.
So there are really two separate questions:
- Was AI involved in creating the code?
- Was the resulting code understood, reviewed, tested and maintained competently?
The answer to the first does not determine the answer to the second.
If someone wants to criticize a mod because it is genuinely unreviewed vibe code, that's reasonable. But “AI was used, therefore it is vibe coded, therefore the developer doesn't understand it” is circular reasoning built on an overly broad definition of vibe coding.
Judge the actual development process and the resulting mod, not merely the tool that produced the first draft.
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u/spaciousbarington Burier of Heads 1d ago
From my understanding, its a name for code primarily made by AI
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u/This_Year1860 1d ago
Code primarly made by AI where the programmer doesnt even know what it does or how it ends up working, the entire process is based on vibes and not knowledge or talent.
A code can be primarly made by an AI but if it is checked ,tested, reviewed and corrected by a skilled programmer who knows what the AI is doing and what it should do, it isnt really vibecoding.
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u/FM_Hikari S.E.S Spear of Justice 1d ago
So a vibecoder needs to get vibe-checked to actually pass off as genuine work, huh... God damn it.
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u/MazdaTiger 🟣Orb Cultist🟣 1d ago
hence it's "vibecoding"
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u/FM_Hikari S.E.S Spear of Justice 1d ago
That part i got right. I just thought could finally leave the damned vibe check meme behind in my life.
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u/MillyQ3 1d ago
The difference between vibe coding and not is up to the developer. With short code snips there is no difference between vibe coding or not.
I'm not a vibe coder, I'm a trained computer science engineer, data analyst and software dev. The AI still helps me code faster because it suggests me what I could do and based on my experience and knowledge I can decide what to take and what not.
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u/DatGoi111 1d ago
If a modder makes it known that their mod is vibe coded, then there is no problem. A single person using AI to put something into a game because no one else will/can is fine imo. Big companies shouldn’t use AI because one they charge and two they have the means to make quality so they should.
But a single person making free mods? As long as they disclose it then the onus is on the person downloading to understand it might be broken/break and the modder might not be able to help. If the player is fine with that then there is no issues.
Edit: The AI art is stupid though. It is not needed in any capacity.
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u/TheFunSwitch7 1d ago
If it’s a super obvious AI thumbnail it’s almost definitely vibe coded
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u/_Ace_Gold_ Decorated Hero 1d ago
Yet 1 dude with AI has fixed the game more than 80+ devs at a multi-million dollar company. Think it shows how easy the issue is to fix and how lazy the company is. He fixed strat ball bouncing and other Quality of Life things in a week, where AH still haven't and promised they'd work on them 2 years ago.
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u/Yin111 1d ago
Using AI to write code does not mean the author doesn't understand the code or cannot maintain it. That's an assumption you're making about the person using the tool.
Someone can have AI generate an implementation, inspect it, test it, modify it, identify failures and iterate on it while understanding exactly what the finished system is doing. Likewise, someone can manually copy code from GitHub, Stack Overflow or another mod without understanding any of it.
The relevant question is whether the author understands and validates the finished implementation, not who physically typed every line.
If an AI-assisted mod actually has a technical defect, criticize that defect. But “AI was used, therefore the author doesn't understand their own mod” doesn't logically follow.
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u/TheChadStevens Free of Thought 1d ago
What a silly take. Any mod can be badly coded. If it doesn't work, people don't use it and it gets a low rating.
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u/Green-Childhood-8671 18h ago
Words thrown into the ether by people with no coding experience.
That was true years ago. AI models these days surpass the coding ability of most junior developers and even some staff engineers.
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u/AuDHDino 6h ago
Hey buddy, vibe coded or not, bingus' mods absolutely work. And the only cost to checking is as simple as uninstalling the mod if it don't work. Your argument is invalid at best
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u/xVelunax 1d ago
You don't need to know at all. If a mod is poorly maintained, it will not have much traffic. Each user downloading it or commenting this sucks, don't use, fix it. Will slowly not get used or someone else will have the mindset to do it themselves.
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u/_Ace_Gold_ Decorated Hero 1d ago
But why can someone who vibe codes fix the game quicker than a multi-million dollar company with plenty of devs that know the engine and work. The fact that a modder used ai to fix the game in a week, when the devs haven't done it in 2 years speaks volumes.
1 dude with AI is out performing 80+ devs with experience. Think it is kinda crazy. At this point AH either starts commissioning the mod makers to fix the game (as a lot of H2, is done by 3rd parties) as it is clear they don't care enough to actually fix the game. Then quality check the mod makers work.
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u/Ciesiu Free of Thought 1d ago
At this point I would just like to see ANY response from AH.
People using cosmetic mods - even though on my end they often look like mismatched mess - I can live with. But people modifying underlying game mechanics and infecting public lobbies with it warrants some response, even if one as simple as "we see the problem and working on X solution" (whether that be blocking mods or splitting matchmaking space, either works for me)
I'd also love to see them discuss honestly some of the most popular mod-based changes in regards to whether they will/won't be implemented and why.
I'm afraid they will take a coward's way out, silently change some mechanism that allows the mods to load and say "oops, I guess the mods broke with the update. Tough luck, we never promissed support"
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u/Oblivionpelt 1d ago
I just can't stand the inconsistency of it all, the fact that a lobby of four could see every diver playing with a different rule set really irks me, and it certainly doesn't help that all of these mods are just cuck coded and lack the decency to make real art for their thumbnails
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u/Prism-96 1d ago
cuck coded is my fav term, good to see it in the wild
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u/Sweaty-Regret-3261 Exosuit Certified 1d ago
this is my first time seeing it and i love it lmfao, i'm definitely adding it to my vocabulary
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u/MidnightStarfall Escalator of Freedom 1d ago
Yeah like, I really don't care what people do in their private sessions or singleplayer games or private servers or whatever.
But the fact that *anyone* can be using blatant cheat mods without a way to really report them has made me sour towards modding, especially the rate at which these AI-made (Cuck coded indeed lol) mods are being pumped out and advertised as "QoL" when all they really do is give buffs to the players and turn off/change things that while are certainly annoying and do need attention, are things that everyone else has to deal with.
I don't know if the random joining my game has something that has the potential to crash me or my friends due to it being unbalanced trash, I don't know if a friend has decided to try it out.
And even on that last point, they just generate a thumbnail for it too, instead of putting the bare minimum of work in. All the while plugging their Patreon to get money for doing *fuck all*...compared to modders that put in effort making new sounds for the game, making models and textures or clearer UI elements. Things that don't impact the experience of other players.
I hate these cuckcoding losers for the reputation they're giving modders, making console players view them as just straight up cheats.
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u/FatFanMan 1d ago
So you take personal offence to somebody using first person or transmog or hellpod steering unlocked or no strategem bounce your a funny man you should go outside
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u/MidnightStarfall Escalator of Freedom 1d ago
I take offence if they're using them anywhere I have a chance of playing with them, because these cheats and vibe-coded slop mods that rely on that Bingus Loader to operate all make the game less stable for everybody in the session.
Not to mention those last two *are* literally just cheats that turn off hellpod limitations and disable strat bouncing.
I'm not saying that they aren't issues that don't need looking into, just going into public lobbies and being a cheater because 'Arrowhead won't make the game the way you want' is kind of sad behaviour.
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1d ago
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u/MidnightStarfall Escalator of Freedom 1d ago
They're not bugs, not exactly.
They're inconsistencies in the game that vanilla players deal with until Arrowhead have an appropriate solution where there's still bouncing and limitations, but they make more sense.
So fully disabling them for yourself is giving you an advantage (Even if small) over other players, one that they can't match with their own skill or equipment...that is by definition a cheat.
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u/FatFanMan 1d ago
No they don't I've used them and helldivers is already unstable as fuck anyway lmao it's PVe dork go outside uninstall helldivers 2 it'd do wonders for your priorities on what makes you upset or not with all the shit going on in the world this is what you get upset about lmao
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u/Syncopy91891 1d ago
Claude, Grok and Dingus are the 3 hardest working guys in game development today, AH should be BEGGING them to fix their game!! /s
It'll be a cold day in hell before I support any AI slop, thats the death of video games IMO.
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u/NotBreadyy Automaton Catgirls for Defected 1d ago
Mods that change gameplay features, like stratagems, or change the armor pen on weapons etc. are what I consider too far.
Mods that just change client side things like how your armor looks? Who cares if you use it, nobody is harmed by it
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u/xVelunax 1d ago
Fatshark is a great example of a company I think that managed modding well. It actually improved. Originally, they had a dedicated modding realm. However, some people would have mods that worked on the regular servers client side, but it would cause crashing for some players on every patch.
Come Darktide the modding community (possibly in combination with Fatshark) actually fixed this issue by doing away with modded realm. Implemented a very easy patch trigger. Every new patch, the any mods you had were automatically deactivated preventing crashing issues and ensured stability.
The big harm in mods is mostly for the developers bottom line because cosmetics are a way they sell the game. Obviously, most people are interested in weapons, armor passives, etc. However, their is drip they add into it with helmets, armor types, background colors, capes, emotes, etc. That's partially the appeal of a warbond and it's money making.
While cosmetic might not harm regular player experience, it is still not something the developer wants to see generally as it means potentially lost revenue. WHich many developers don't care about at the lower level, but the higher-ups at Sony 1000% would care about this.
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u/PimpMyWeenus 21h ago
my opinion
no conflict mods: visual, audio and cosmetic ones only (audio: only rebalancing to adjust their terrible audio balancing on stuff behind you)
walking the line, but ethical: bug fix mods, quality of life that doesn't affect gameplay
outright cheating: anything that modifies gameplay to give an advantage. that includes stuff like railgun zoom / showing leveller arc
all of the mods i see are either the first or 3rd. i haven't seen someone put out an ethical mod pack that alters the game, but stays with the vision arrowhead put out
why don't i think the strat bounce / steering lock mod is ethical? because sometimes enemies cannot deal with some vertical threats. they'll just stare up a wall and do nothing.
enemy AI needs a rework at the same time to remove those 2 'mechanics'
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u/Boxy29 16h ago
one correction: Certain mods are getting hate/debated on, not kidding as a whole.
there have been plenty of cosmetic and audio mods since launch and no ones had an issue with them. if you want miku beams, fart gas trikes, thicc divers, etc. then have fun.
when it comes to changing mechanics is were it starts to get into the grey area that people have issues with. yes they can "fix" the game but it opens up the can of worms that AH actually has to address mods as it's having adverse affects on players who don't/cant mod, like crashing lobbies.
personally I'll take a hand created mod with MS paint art over AI made/"assisted" mods. AI isn't good enough yet to not leave vulnerabilities in the code or to make the mod unstable. which is why most companies still haven't adopted AI coding. at best it just moves the work from writing it to double checking all of the code.
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u/Cheese9220 1d ago
The least terrible scenario would be to make a second galactic war for modders to run rampant, without any of the new content or story lines.
And keep game changing mods out of the current galactic war and it's matchmaking.
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u/MidnightStarfall Escalator of Freedom 1d ago
Unfortunately I don't think Arrowhead or Sony are interested in supporting mods to that degree.
The least terrible scenario that'd be realistic is the anti-cheat starts getting tuned and mods that alter game statistics will just stop the game from launching. This is the scenario that happens if Arrowhead are the ones who decide to step in.
If *Sony* decide to step in, then modding Helldivers 2 will come to an end, and they won't give a shit about the backlash.
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u/AmmyOwl 1d ago
What that would still suck? Banning all modded from all new content is still shitty.
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u/Cheese9220 1d ago
Who cares? As far as they're concerned they can just mod it in but better no?
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u/_Ace_Gold_ Decorated Hero 1d ago
Last time it didn't work out for Sony. The mass review bomb and players leaving would honestly cripple the game. Banning all mods would be a huge middle finger to the playerbase and they have already seen a crazy dip since the last review bomb crisis. They used to get 300k + players before the PS ID drama. Before they got xbox players it was around 40-60k. With xbox at peaks it is 80k(ish).
Would the game survive? Yes, but they would lose a large portion of their players and I'd assume less people would sink money into their sc.
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u/BurntMoonChips 1d ago
The game drops to 30-70k between every single content drop. This wasn’t something cause by literally anything because it happens every single time.
That said, yes the review bomb put massive pressure on Sony. That won’t happen this time. Modding is a very small part of the PC only player base. You won’t unite the playerbase over that.
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u/Cheese9220 1d ago
It's likely going to happen regardless. Whether we like it or not.
This community is one of the worst I have seen. And our own inability to self moderate or call out shitty behaviour is going to cause MAJOR problems for modders.
Modding was fine. But people have started frequently using game changing mods and being dusruptive in public lobbies.
And whether we like it or not the galactic war does exist, and is objectively affected by this.
So the best course of action is to give the modders a space they can go ham in, without disrupting the vanilla experience.
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u/_Ace_Gold_ Decorated Hero 1d ago
No way you blaming the community? AH's Laziness and ineptitude is the cause of this. They lack moderation, refuse to listen to their community. Now their vanilla players are paying for it. I do not use mods and I think its not the modders fault.
This is 100% on the game company and their community management (which there is none).
The problem is the consumer has lost faith in the company due to their negligence. Thus taken the power into their own hands.
I do agree that modders should be on separate server/queue.
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u/Cheese9220 1d ago
Why are we pretending like video games are a god damn takeout order? We don't get to dictate what developers add.
Half of the community is god damn illiterate and managed to gaslight themselves into thinking enemies dropped early into development were going to be added just because a youtuber said so.
Hell people are still saying AH constantly nerfs us when that's blatantly untrue.
Game developers like Digital Extremes get to say no to features (raids are an example there) because it doesn't fit with their design or the type of gameplay they want.
And their playerbase is decent enough to (for the most part) move on.
Ours? Freaks the fuck out when we get told no transmog. We're a joke as a community.
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u/_Ace_Gold_ Decorated Hero 1d ago
Using DE in this case is actually hilarious. I played Warframe for years and they listen to their community more than they don't. BTW Warframe had raids, they got deleted cus not many people played them fyi.
The only way that NarrowHead has ever listened was when they got massive backlash.
DE has always put customer first, it is their entire model. And their game is 100% free, HD2 is a $40 game with microtransactions. DE's playerbase loves the devs because they listen, their comm manager actually takes feedback and interacts with them. AH comm manager makes a post stating how she didn't know what was going on.
DE is what AH should strive to be. They put player experience first and that is why Warframe has outlived Destiny 2.
Everytime they nerf something they compensate players. When AH does it, they nerf a whole element so people still buy a warbond (coyote -> fire dmg getting nerfed).
I think you are complaining while not knowing all the facts. You sound exactly like the players that you are bitching about. It is clear you bring up a company you know nothing about. Which I got a good laugh about. Just go back to licking AH's boots.
BTW Warframe has full customization over looks like colors and what not.
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u/BurntMoonChips 1d ago
“Narrowhead” does listen to playerbase, all the time, even outside of the backlash.
Fire damage was not nerfed with the coyote change. The coyote change was buffing a select number of enemies ignite threshold, fire damage was completely untouched. Additionally this had 0 measurable change on flamers (due it every particle having a status effect) and the fire shotguns were completely unchanged on their chaff breaks points.
It’s ironic you claim that the other person is arguing without knowing all the facts, when you’re peddling misinformation to push a narrative.
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u/Cheese9220 1d ago
Did DE compensate players for the LOS check nerfs?
Or the heavy ammo nerfs?
Or the loot farming nerfs?
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u/_Ace_Gold_ Decorated Hero 1d ago
"Did DE compensate players for the LOS check nerfs?
Or the heavy ammo nerfs?
Or the loot farming nerfs?"
These are not comparable you are grasping at straws and you know it.
They did compensate players when they changed the loot farming: yes.
Bro you need to do research before you spout your mindless dribble.
You haven't played Warframe in your life and it shows.
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u/AmmyOwl 1d ago
No? I still want to participate in the Galactic War. I shouldn’t be banned from it just for fixing things Arrowhead never will.
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u/Cheese9220 1d ago
One day.....what was my suggestion again?
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u/AmmyOwl 1d ago
what the fuck are you saying 😭
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u/Cheese9220 1d ago
It's called sarcasm because apparently expecting people in this community to read is too damn much
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u/AmmyOwl 10h ago
Dude genuinely what are you saying?? Like I’m completely lost on what the fuck “One day….” means.
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u/Tylenol_Americant 1d ago
Even just the megapack alone is fantastic. Transm9g allows you to select nice color matching armor is even better.
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u/Ludewich42 1d ago
I am fully convinced that modding is bad for helldivers 2. Why? Because with the currently available set of mods they have effects on the game which are indistinguishable from cheats. And cheats spoil the game. Moreover, they do not simply affect your own game. They affect the galactic campaign, and thus all players - possibly spoiling entire major orders.
How could this be addressed? Allowing mods, but in a dedicated section which does not contribute to the galactic campaign? Well, that would also reduce any impact of playing to the global coop progress. Would be a no-go for me. Personally, I think they should just ban all mods. Maybe modders will be able to write their own galactic war and can work in their own isolated network. I would rather play together with them, and I would rather not have arrowhead invest dev time into such a possibility.
As for other games: yes, many games greatly benefit from mods - thinking of Mechwarrior V, Risk of Rain 2, Transport Fever or something. But all these games are essentially just restricted to a lobby (or a dedicated server), and are isolated from the rest of the community. Mechwarrior and Transport Fever are single player. Helldivers 2 is nothing like it and gameplay altering mods have no place here.
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u/Sudo-Fed SES Sword of Justice 1d ago
You haven't seen a review bomb the likes of which banning ALL mods would kick off.
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u/Ludewich42 1d ago
Yes, maybe. It is a really bad situation. We cannot live with the mods, but disabling them causes another uproar. Maybe they really need to invest precious dev resources in order to at least decouple modded lobbies from the rest of the community. Not sure if anyone will continue to play modded games then, though.
Should I think better about mods because of this situation?
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u/Sudo-Fed SES Sword of Justice 1d ago
Private cosmetic mods are popular enough and unintrusive enough that they warrant a more nuanced solution than "ban all mods" or "mod segregation"
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u/Ludewich42 1d ago
Yeah, we've had cosmetic mods for a long time. If AH can implement something like in Deep Rock Galactic where mod support is builtin and allows a classification in "cosmetic only" or "gameplay altering", we could have something like that.
Depending how much dev time needs to be invested into distinguishing between these classes, it would suffice to apply strict regulation for the "gameplay altering" class only.
But would you want AH to spent a couple of months into such a solution? I would rather have them ban all mods and spent the dev time into cool updates than have them invest several months of work into mod support. If it only takes a couple of days - fine with me.
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u/SL1Fun 1d ago
Nobody is going to support you shilling out for modders, dude. Not most players, not the devs, nobody.
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u/NotBreadyy Automaton Catgirls for Defected 1d ago
Mods that only do cosmetic things are not bad in any way.
Adding custom skins for you? Who's gonna complain.
Adding literal cheats? Alright that's too far
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u/Mushroom_Boogaloo 1d ago
I’ll complain, but it will be about how some of the mods should be in-game features so console players (like myself 😭) can actually use them. Transmog and armour colouring would make me so happy.
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u/NotBreadyy Automaton Catgirls for Defected 1d ago
Transmog is a easy add for the Devs, but I believe many players dislike it due to how it'd make armors irrelevant by just letting you use any armor with any passive.
I know this because I said I like transmog and got flamed on reddit a few days ago.
But letting us just use camo like on weapons would be enough
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u/Mushroom_Boogaloo 1d ago
No, we have it on record that this is one of the most asked-for features that the devs said no to. ”Bacon-flavoured apples” was their defence, which was and still is idiotic because they haven’t actually stuck with it themselves.
A great example of AH not following their own logic is Servo Assisted. Seven armours in total have it, but only two represent it visually. THREE of them should have increased throwables or stims based on visual presentation. It’s all just a low effort excuse to continue being lazy.
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u/SL1Fun 1d ago
Most asked-for in what, discord?
Discord is not the greater community. The rest of us know how showers work.
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u/NotBreadyy Automaton Catgirls for Defected 1d ago
Are you really trying to act like Reddit is superior to discord?
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u/Mushroom_Boogaloo 1d ago
One of the most asked for things in general. I don’t know how long you’ve been with the game or if you’ve been tuned in to the social media community for a while, but as I said before this is the origin of the ‘bacon-flavoured apples’ bullshit, which has been a meme for most of the game’s life iirc.
Also, for some reason one of AH’s main methods of communicating with the player base is through their official Discord. Make fun of those people all you want, they have AH’s ear more than almost anyone.
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u/MidnightStarfall Escalator of Freedom 1d ago
Official game Discord servers are an example of the lowest of the low of any community. Especially if they're public.
With how Discord works there is no way that a server that large that is centred around a *product* and not an actual *community* doesn't just turn into a toxic vat of piranhas.
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u/This_Year1860 1d ago
i will
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u/SL1Fun 1d ago
Keep pushing the envelope and you all will get banned and I’m just gonna laugh
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u/This_Year1860 1d ago
Keep sucking off arrowhead's dick. Modding would have never picked off if the game didnt lack basic features we've been asking to be added for years now. Just look at the download numbers, no one wants to cheat, they just want things like transmog, color matching, fixing bugs arrowhead is too lazy to fix,etc...
Also sorry to ruin your day but nobody is gettin banned, nobody has ever been banned in this game.
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u/WorldlinessEuphoric8 1d ago
banned from the subredddit maybe not the game, arrowhead said themselves they dont have the ability to ban players, personally im gonna keep enjoying what the game could be with mods
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u/Gold-Opportunity2403 1d ago
"cure for cancer could potentially be helpful towards the betterment of humanity" ahh post
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u/john681611 19h ago
Yes, good mods exist and yes AI coding is fine when driven by a skilled individual with coding knowledge.
What is not good is many mods are just straight up cheats or stuff that wrecks the game for others.
The game is gonna get integrity checks. Depending on AHs abilities the best case is.
- Vanilla
- Verified non cheating mods
- Unverified wild west (absolutely no personal or community progress. So No SC, rep, medals, xp nothing. Play for fun only)
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u/Square-Ad4927 1d ago
I'm really happy with the modding. It breathed new life into the game for me and I'm having fun. I crank up the spawn rates of enemies.