r/HonestHotTakes • u/Artistic-Usual7151 • 26d ago
serious hot take I think owning dogs you physically can't restrain should be illegal/restricted
I think it's extremely irresponsible and should even be illegal to own a dog you physically can't restrain especially if you have children or live in an area near children. The danger these dogs can cause is extreme serious injuries and the possibility of death to another person isn't worth this freedom. I think larger dogs should require a permit and professional training. If you want a "guard dog" it should be a process more similar to getting a gun, I think both the owner and the dog need proper training before the dog should be able to be owned by the average person along with a background check just to be sure they have a history of being a responsible human being.
I am very aware that little dogs tend to bite more, but a little dog that attacks you or someone else you can throw them off or restrain them significantly easier than you can a pit bull. I think there is a significant difference between drawing some blood and being capable of taking limbs off and causing permanent disfigurement or death
If you can't physically stop that dog's attack if it lashes out, you have no business owning one in the first place. I don't care that your dog is a "gentle giant" it only takes one instance for something bad to happen. The average person doesn't need a Cane Corso or a Mastiff I think the risk is not worth "your freedom" to do whatever and take whatever risk you want especially when it puts non-consenting people at risk. I don't hate dogs or anything but I do see a massive creature with large teeth and a strong bite force as inherently dangerous in the event that it becomes reactive, angry, or irritated. At the end of the day they are animals and will act like animals to some extent.
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u/Minimum-Actuator-953 26d ago
I agree. I was terrorized by a dog whose owner could barely walk. It took her several minutes to walk over to where he dog was holding me in place and not letting me leave so she could leash it. I was livid with her.
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u/TAM_IS_MINE 26d ago
I agree, though I unfortunately do not see this becoming widespread (in the states, i know other countries have breed bans). There should never be a situation where an owner is unable to restrain a dog.
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u/dingopaint 26d ago
One caveat is that fighting line American Pit Bull Terriers can bottom out at only 30lbs. Unfortunately size alone doesn't determine the relative danger factor. That's why reasonable countries ban specific breeds.
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u/Artistic-Usual7151 26d ago
I think bite force and muscle mass could also be good determining factors along with breed standard temperament
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u/Dry-Manufacturer7761 26d ago
No. If you can’t control a small dog, the same rules should apply. The breed if dog doesn’t mean shit for how aggressive it is, only how effective it is at causing harm.
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u/SinkCat69 26d ago
The breed matters a lot, because a chihuahua isn’t hurting anything if it gets mad, but a pitbull is can cause a lot of harm. Statistics don’t lie either. 2/3 of serious injuries and deaths from dog attacks are pit bulls.
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u/Artistic-Usual7151 26d ago
Even if the "pit bull mommies" are right and the statistics are mostly mutts those dogs are almost entirely, at least partially mixed with pits or other bully breeds
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u/Substantial_Disk1706 26d ago
I hate you ID10Ts that spout this ignorant sh!t, BITES ARE BITES PERIOD. Your ‘small’ dog may not do ‘as much damage’, but considering most owners of those small rat dogs don’t train them/can’t control them (meaning they’ll get in 5-10 bites before they/you get them off, and dogs don’t just ‘bite’, they rip and tear, that’s why small dog bites CAN cause decent damage, sure they aren’t strong enough to rip your arm off but most big dogs don’t do that either, that’s just fear mongering or abuse/mistreatment and the dog lashes out, it’s not by any means ‘common’) or are elderly and can hardly feed them let alone groom/take care of them properly, meaning they’d have a higher chance of a bite causing infections, and infections don’t care if the bite was from a ‘small’ dog or ‘big’ dog, it’ll cause the same infection and some are bad enough to maim/k!ll. AGAIN, most of the variables come down to a BAD OWNER. If you ACTUALLY look at the top 3 breeds with the most aggression, it’s dachshund, CHIHUAHUA, and jack russel terrier (I know those last 2 for sure, I’ve ONLY known a$$hole chihuahuas and my gpa’s jack Russel was a mean little fvcker too). But they all get a pass because ‘mUh ThEy’Re SmAlL’ 🙄🖕🏻
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u/GatoConCalcetines 26d ago
In my country pit bulls, american bull terriers bull terriers etc are banned, you need a special legal permit to own one, if not it's illegal
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26d ago
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u/Competitive-Rub-4270 25d ago
What
Op says you should be allowed to own something you cant control, you missed the point entirely.
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25d ago
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u/Competitive-Rub-4270 25d ago
They can quite easily, I used to be a dogwalker and had 0 issues walking anything from a 3 pound chihuahua to a 210 pound Newfoundland. Larger people do exist and we have enough leverage to easily control larger dogs. The newfie I walked was a sweetheart but she definitely liked chasing cats and small animals and on more than one occasion I just lifted her by her harness. It doesnt even have to be the whole dog, once the 2 front legs are off they lose a ton of pulling power.
Great Pyrenees should be owned by people that can control them, aka slightly stronger than the average adult.
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25d ago
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u/Competitive-Rub-4270 25d ago
I have my CPL, theres very little in the woods or on the streets I cant stop.
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u/xRocketman52x 26d ago edited 26d ago
Went to the store yesterday. Watched a young (late 20s), fit guy nearly get pulled off his feet when his German Shepard lunged towards a kid. Literally could not agree with OP more. If the dog *had made it to the kid, there would have been no consequences for dog or owner, the kid would have been told "He didn't mean it" or "He was just excited", and that would be that.
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u/Amelaclya1 26d ago
So, say someone becomes disabled, or even temporarily injured, they have their dog taken away from them?
Women who live alone shouldn't be allowed guard dogs at all? I know an old lady who lives pretty rural in a methhead prone area, and she keeps a big dog for defense.
Trust me, I understand the frustration with bad owners and dog attacks. I live in an area where dipshits let their dogs roam loose and people have been attacked. But your idea is ridiculous and impossible to fairly implement, and would do nothing to stop the problem of loose dogs. A better one would be to phase out the existence of aggressive breeds. Make it illegal to breed them immediately and after a number of years (like the lifespan of the dog), illegal to own.
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u/Imaginary_Ad_4340 26d ago
I agreed in the first half, but not the second. Like you said, plenty of women appreciate a well-trained but powerful large dog and we shouldn’t be “phasing” out these breeds simply because some people are irresponsible about owning them.
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u/Mystery89067 25d ago
Yes, I think the dog should be taken for some time. what good is a giant dog that you can't control? If you're injured to high hell, the dog should be taken until your better Enough. If the dog turns on you and you're in no position to defend yourself, it'll make your injuries way worse.
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u/HoldFastO2 26d ago
This is going to severely limit the range of breeds anyone can buy, and not just of the biggest or most dangerous breeds you’re thinking of.
Even midsized breeds like labs or German Shepherd are really hard to hold onto if they’re really determined to move. And not just for old people or small women, but for grown men, too.
Much better to make dog training mandatory. You don’t need to be able to hold your dog if it knows to obey you at all times.
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u/Miaka_yukichan 26d ago
Your logic is sound, but also: my dad had a German shepherd when I was a kid who was exceptionally intelligent and well trained. Even as a small child I knew I had nothing to fear around her... until she met a small dog she didn't care for and literally ripped it to shreds in our yard.
No matter how well trained an animal you never know what will cause them to snap. Not every dog will bite, but every dog who bites always has a first time.
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u/Imaginary_Ad_4340 25d ago
Seriously disagree. A well-trained dog doesn’t rely purely on physical force to control. I’ve seen kids dragged down the street by their untrained doodles, but also elderly people with their Doberman in a perfect attentive heel. It’s not just a size/strength issue. It’s a training issue.
If we were going to implement any legislation restricting dog owners, it should rely on training not on physical size/ability. This would prevent attacks by dogs of all sizes, not just the largest, and wouldn’t unduly penalize people who aren’t just large able-bodied men.
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u/One-Win9407 26d ago edited 25d ago
This is a hot take because a lot of people now arent satisfied with pitbulls and are looking for larger and more powerful dogs; Cane Corso, Dogo Argentino, Boerboel, Xl bullies, Bandog, etc....a whole class of dogs that were very rare in the US just 15 or 20 years ago.
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u/tenthousandtatas 26d ago
It’s not a hot take. This is the popular opinion and if it was put to vote all the trash breeds would be put down
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u/One-Win9407 26d ago
Id like to hope so but there are more and more of these power breed type dogs every year...people have been brainwashed into thinking its doggy racism to put restrictions on them.
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u/Imaginary_Ad_4340 26d ago
Olde English Bulldogges do not belong on this list. They are just a healthier version of the Bulldog, not massive or aggressive.
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u/SubjectSheepherder55 26d ago
Who decides that a dog is too big for their owner? What would guidelines look like?
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u/imaworkersirrr 26d ago
If you cannot fully restrain your dog under any and all circumstances, it’s too big for you.
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u/Dry-Manufacturer7761 26d ago
Yup! If it is leashed and can pull you off balance or you cannot physically restrain it by pinning it to the ground, it is too big for you to control.
You should be able to grab your dog and literally pin it to the ground like it lost a wrestling match.
I see 60 pound kids walking 120 pound dogs all by themself. If something happened and the dog killed someone, people would not put any of the blame on the child. Some would, but not most.
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u/imaworkersirrr 26d ago
I see this with old women ALL the time. They have dogs that weigh double their weight. Granted they only attack other dogs, but it’s still dangerous.
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u/SubjectSheepherder55 26d ago
How do you define restrain? Do I need to be able to bear hug my dog or just stop him from going anywhere if I have a hold of his collar/harness? The only time I really can't restrain him is when I give him a bath and he's wet and naked. Should I not have my dog because of that?
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u/Disastrous_Pause2446 26d ago
I just watched a video of a Shepard treating another smaller dog like a chew toy. The old woman gently tapped his head and screamed while another man gingerly sprinkled water on the attacking dog. Indeed, If one can't control the animal because it's too big, fast, aggressive, tricky or whatever... that owner needs to reconsider.
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u/Dry-Manufacturer7761 26d ago
If the leashed dog can pull you off balance, it is too big for you to control.
If you cannot pin the dog to the ground, it is too big for you to control.
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u/mothwhimsy 26d ago
Agree. I used to have a neighbor who would just let her snarling dog drag her towards other dogs, and then she made no effort to get him away from the other dog. It was like she was completely helpless. I had to look out all my windows before taking my gog for a walk to make sure she wasn't outside.
But I'm a smaller woman than she was, and my dog is as big as hers, and while he's less reactive than hers, he has his moments. But I'm perfectly capable of dragging my dog away from a dog he's barking at.
I think very few people are actually incapable of controlling their dog in the bare minimum way unless their dog is huge. They just don't care
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u/Equivalent-Ad-6182 26d ago
Substitute control for restrain. Dogs actually response very well to proper training. They simply want to please their owner, the owner has to know how to effectively communicate that to the dog. If you can't do basic training with your dog, good luck with raising kids.
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u/moboticus 26d ago
Would we be confiscating dogs from people who could initially physically control them, but then become disabled? What if you can't physically restrain the dog if for some reason it came to that, but they are exceptionally well trained and is exceedingly unlikely to be so? Logistically, how would this even be tracked?
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u/Daveit4later 26d ago
I absolutely agree with you. A dangerous dog is just that...dangerous.
Unfortunately things like that take legislation as it walks the line of restricting personal freedoms which is a complicated issue.
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u/Pretty-Confidence104 26d ago
Everyone here is thinking about bully breeds.
Then there are the gental giants. St bernard, great Dane, great pyrneass etc. These are amazing dogs who are also great with kids.
Any dog can be a threat.
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u/nataliebee69 26d ago
I have a pyr whose about 100lbs. I (35f) can easily handle him physically and have zero concern about him attacking someone. It's just not in his temperament to do so in normal circumstances, so I do what I need to do to avoid abnormal circumstances. This isn't a wild animal, Ive trained them and lived with them for several years and know what their triggers are. Large breed dogs are far less likely to attack or show aggression to humans and depending on your lifestyle may be easier for you to handle than a poorly socialized smaller dog.
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u/Pretty-Confidence104 26d ago
The extra large dogs are amazing.
My st bernard's (150lbs) lead is often my youngest childs fist. I tried to stop this; its not a normal 'healthy' behavior but they were once the same size and have bonded. The child makes a fist and holds it near the dog. The dog takes thr hand and arm into his mouth and they walk around like that, through fields an all. 🤷♀️
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u/nataliebee69 25d ago
I swear their brains must be just smarter because they're so much bigger because mine does this sort of stuff too. More than any other dog I've had he's fully convinced he's human and will try to pet you, gently grab your hand with his mouth and move it to his belly, etc. I could never go back.
Now pyrs specifically are nightmares to train because they're so stubborn but they do have absolutely fantastic instincts.
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u/knomadt 26d ago
I grew up around Great Danes, and even though they are gentle giants, I absolutely agree that if someone doesn't have the physical strength to restrain one if need be, they shouldn't own one.
We had a Dane that had a bad experience with a black Labrador as a puppy, and grew up to be aggressive towards them. Absolutely lovely dog around people, and had no issues with Labs of other colours, and black dogs of other breeds. But absolutely loathed black Labs on sight. If he saw one while my dad was holding the lead, no problem, because my dad was big and strong enough to keep him under control. If he saw one while my sister was holding the lead, that was another matter entirely. She literally got pulled over and dragged once. I only walked the female Danes for this reason; they are smaller and less powerful, so I was able to control them, but I wasn't confident of my ability to control one of the males.
As an adult, I wouldn't choose a breed I couldn't physically stop if I had to. Obviously the goal would be a well-trained, well-socialised dog where physical restraint never became necessary, but I'd still want to know I could do it if I had to. Because you never know when your dog will take a disliking to a specific other dog, or it'll spot something that will activate its prey drive.
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u/Upbeat_Owl_8530 26d ago
I’ve seen people have this take before so I really want to ask the question- say it’s illegal to own a dog that’s too big to restrain. What do you expect to happen with all those bigger dogs that have been domesticated?
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u/mrsrariden 26d ago
Stop breeding them.
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u/Upbeat_Owl_8530 26d ago
Ok that solves the future problem. What about the dogs that already exist?
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u/Lanavis13 26d ago
The law could easily have it be set that said dogs will only be euthanized in 20 years, i.e. long enough that even puppies would have died via old age.
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u/Artistic-Usual7151 26d ago
Euthanasia or forcing the owners to undergo professional training and receiving permits. After the initial enforcement that would be less of a problem. Similar to the bully ban in the UK
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u/Pretty-Confidence104 26d ago
No more st benards 😥
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u/Konoshy_831 26d ago
Only for those who can prove they can restrain them.
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u/DJFisticuffs 26d ago
I don't think any human could restrain a St. Bernard if it went completely off. Although, this was the basis of the book Cujo, I've never heard of such a thing happening in real life.
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u/Ok-Oven1692 26d ago
If the government went around trying to euthanize people's pets because of a new law, there would (rightfully) be a lot of dead cops and people thrown in jail. They should be grandfathered in/be given mandatory training classes
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u/Fantastic-Work8855 26d ago
you can say that, but the government is currently going around kidnapping people. us americans have grandiose fantasies when it comes to oppression… but nothing ever happens.
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u/spiderwitchery 26d ago
Permits and restrictions for the dogs is the way to go. But many of those idiots in the UK had like 6+ months to get their permits and they literally waited until the last week before the deadline to try to do it, had issues, then whined online about how unfair it was when their dogs were taken away due to their own negligence.
This would happen x1000 in the USA.
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u/DJFisticuffs 26d ago
How do you test whether someone can restrain a dog or not? Like, I can pretty easily restrain my 75 lb dog but my mother probably couldn't. That's just a guess though. To test this, are we going to agitate my dog until he goes apeshit and then make my mom try to restrain him? He's also well trained and kind of a coward so if you tried to do that he would probably just whimper and show his belly.
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u/One-Win9407 26d ago
Your mom has a large and well trained dog, but someones else has a large dog they cant control. In many states if that dog were to hurt your mom or her dog then the other person would just say its an accident. Youd have to sue them in civil court and would only get money if they own assets or have insurance....too bad most irresponsible dog owners dont.
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u/DJFisticuffs 26d ago
No, I mean my mother probably couldn't restrain my dog because she is tiny and elderly. She has her own dog which is much smaller that she could easily restrain. But my point is, how would you enforce this? How can you tell if an owner is able to restrain their dog without testing that?
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u/One-Win9407 26d ago
Like most laws nothing really would be done beforehand. The difference would be after an uncontrolled dog hurts someone the owner cant say it was an accident, just like a drunk driver cant say it was an accident.
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u/DJFisticuffs 26d ago
I don't know where you live, but in the US this is mostly already the law. Most states (I think the number is 38) have strict liability for dog attacks (the only defense is that the victim provoked the dog).
The remaining states I believe all use some version of the "one bite rule" where you have to prove the dog owner was negligent to assess liability the first time it attacks someone. After the first attack the owner becomes strictly liable.
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u/One-Win9407 26d ago
Okay....that doesnt change anything...Strict Liability is a CIVIL thing, youre never going to collect a cent from most dangerous dog owners. Thats why im saying it needs to be Criminal like DUI or driving without insurance.
"A majority of states have adopted some sort of strict liability (36 states). Note that these strict liability laws impose civil liability to dog owners for damage done to another person or property. This civil liability comes in the form of money damages owed to the injured person. This is different than a "dangerous dog"....."
Source: https://www.animallaw.info/topic/table-dog-bite-strict-liability-statutes
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u/Konoshy_831 26d ago
Your mom should not be put in the position of having to restrain your dog then. She should not be doing solo walks where she and the dog could interact with the public. There should always be someone with her who is able to restrain the dog if needed.
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u/DJFisticuffs 26d ago
She is never in a position where she would need to restrain my dog. We live in different states.
The point of my comment, which no one seems to understand, is that there would be no way to enforce a law banning someone from having a dog they are unable to restrain because it is not possible to tell whether an owner can restrain a dog without purposefully making the dog crazy and then seeing if the owner is able to restrain it.
Such a law would also be under inclusive because most dog attacks are not due to an owner being unable to restrain a dog; they are due to the owner or victim being negligent.
Most states have strict liability laws for dog bites where the only defense is that the victim provoked the dog.
I would not be opposed to mandatory liability insurance for dog bites. A lot of people already do have this coverage through homeowner's or renter's insurance, though.
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u/Mysterious_Fox_8058 26d ago
100% agree. There's a woman who walks a dog on our road and she barely controls it when it is being well behaved. I dread to think what would happen if the dog decided to lunge at someone or another dog. So irresponsible.
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u/Dry-Manufacturer7761 26d ago
I do agree.
It is actually illegal in places to train an attack dog. They are treated like guns in some places.
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u/sackfistin 26d ago
Fuck pit bulls
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u/dribanlycan 25d ago
i dont like the hate towards pitbulls, do you know one of the reasons "pitbull bite rates are so high!" is because the sites that collect the data together lump several breeds together into "pit bulls"? if you spread the data out like with what we do for other dog breeds, it matches the data of other dog breeds fatality statistics, all while pitbull breeds are one of the most common dog breeds in the USA. these sites will also omit and skewing data, for example, one site reported a woman dying of pitbull fatal attack, but that woman had health issues, had been quickly getting worse that she refused to seek treatment for, and after not being seen for a week, and was found eaten alive by her 3 dogs, with only one of them being a pit bull. her family said it was clearly no fault of the dogs and they were clearly starving. there are various reports of fatal pitbull attacks on these sites that are just misinformation, even as bad as fatal incidence where the breed is unidentified being chalked up as a pitbull despite no evidence it was even a pitbull mix.
This is also worsened by dogs being mistreated because they are assumed to be a killing machine, sold as home defense, or worse for dogfighting, where they are never socialized, barely treated like a living being, abused while growing up on puppy mills, and also never neutered. when your weapon dog you leave in your living room tears up your couch, people just go dump it outside, for it to mix with other feral dogs, creating an over abundance of dogs that match that breed profile, compounded by poor training, and the same causes as before, leads to dogs that do not have training or social skills. my family has had many 'pit bull' type dogs, gotten from friends or neighbors as puppies, and because of training them well and neutering they were just dogs, the worst most aggressive dogs ive seen has had owners who assumed they wouldnt be because they werent "an aggressive breed" with the worst being a jack russell terrier hound mix.
TLDR; Pitbulls are a large group of breeds lumped together for statistics that are full of misinformation to fit a narrative, are generally treated badly and untrained, overbred in abusive puppy mills, used for dogfighting or defense, where they are never given social skills, training, or neutering.
you can find more information on,https://www.fataldogattacks.org/ but from them i quote: "As the most popular dog type in the U.S., pit bulls are underrepresented in fatality statistics, accounting for ~12.7% of fatalities despite comprising ~20% of the dog population."
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u/TheBourbonTurtle 26d ago
"it should be a process similar to getting a gun". Sorry to burst your bubble here, but I can just hand someone cash for a gun and go our separate ways. That's the entire process. So we're saying large dogs should be similarly easy to aquire, cash for puppy?
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u/aereci 25d ago
What country are you in, have you ever bought a gun- if so, what type- and are we talking about a legal purchase?
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u/TheBourbonTurtle 25d ago
The US (Kentucky specifically). Yes own at least 30 at this point. And yes, the transaction I described is entirely legal and above board.
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u/aereci 21d ago
I notice you didn’t answer all of my questions.
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u/TheBourbonTurtle 21d ago
Only thing I didn't answer was what type of gun and that's because it's been anything from a NAA mini revolver to a Barrett M82A1 and pretty much anything in between.
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u/GatoConCalcetines 26d ago
What about my 5,1" adult ass and a golden retriever, the average golden retriever can pull me easily
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u/GlumRing4147 26d ago
Just cut to the chase and say we should ban and euthanize all pit bulls and pit bull adjacent breeds. No one is worried about St. Bernards or Boxers.
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u/BrowningLoPower 26d ago
How do we test for this? Do we make you go 1v1 against your potential pet? 😂
No wait, you go 1v1 against an equivalent human being. 🤣
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u/throwitawayuserna213 26d ago
But, when you get the pup, there's no guarantee how big the dog will be. My pup's breed average is 55lb, 45 for females. These sizes are easily handled by most adults of average size and fitness level.
However, his litter has 6 months left until adult size, and one of his littermates is already >100lb, the female a family member took is 50lb, and mine is already 71. I'm able to handle mine even when he's charging wildlife, but not everyone would be able to. Even then, during his lifetime I could become disabled and no longer be able to handle him as I can now.
The restriction should instead be where an unrestrainable dog can be brought.
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u/OutdoorKittenMe 26d ago
Are you in the US? Because I just bought a gun a few weeks ago and the "process" was nothing. No background check, permit, anything.
But that aside, under your plan my daughter and I wouldn't have our boerboel in our home and on all of our cross country camping adventures, but the kind of guys she deters would be able to own a dog like her? No thanks
It doesn't matter anyway, there's no reason I'd ever need to restrain her because she's a super lazy, super sweet teddy bear
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u/3-car-garage 26d ago
Sorry, op should have added the qualifier "civilized places".
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u/Artistic-Usual7151 26d ago
That's what I was thinking while reading that "like responsible nations do, not like the USA and their insane bs"
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u/OutdoorKittenMe 26d ago
Oh it's bonkers over here. And realistically, a mom and her young daughter would have to concern themselves far less with safety in civilized places
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u/vaffelagent 26d ago
I was hit by a car when our old family dog got spooked on the sidewalk and ran into the road. I didn't love that experience so when I got my own dog I made sure it was small enough that I have a say in whether or not we run into traffic. But also we go hiking a lot and I need to have a dog i can easily carry down a mountain if something happens where he can't walk himself.
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u/Inevitable_Silver_13 25d ago
Hell yes. I'm so tired of having to pick up my small dog or walk across the street because people don't seem to know that their dog is reactive. My dog has been bit by other dogs before and I've been in situations where she almost got absolutely mauled. People are ridiculously irresponsible with their dogs. It's crazy that I have to be the one to be careful to keep my small dog out of danger.
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u/PainterLonely1313 26d ago
That'll work out well for paralyzed people with service dogs.
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u/cola-cats 26d ago
I think its obvious OP isnt talking about medical service dogs, which are (typically) bred for temperament and heavily trained. Very different from a 5ft 100lbs woman getting a german shepherd in a whim, for example.
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u/Headoutdaplane 26d ago edited 26d ago
Yeah! ban horses too while we are at it. Many folks can't wrestle their horse to the ground when they go crazy!
And kids! Ban those little fuckers too!
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26d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/PainterLonely1313 26d ago
No, they'll just stomp you to death, roll over on you, crush you between themselves and a wall, throw you off their back...
And they can absolutely rip your face off with one unfortunate kick.
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u/LaconicGirth 26d ago
Horses aren’t commonly at parks and sidewalks and they aren’t responsible for hospitalizing nearly a million Americans a year
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u/Fantastic-Work8855 26d ago
horses arent out on the street every day lol. false equivalency
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u/Headoutdaplane 26d ago
You Haven't been to central Park lately? Or the miracle Mile in Chicago? Those bastards are everywhere!
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u/wombatgeneral 26d ago
Americans only think about their own safety instead of the safety of others. It's the same mentality of people who brag about bigger vehicles being safer for them, but they are more dangerous to whoever you hit.
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u/Artistic-Usual7151 26d ago
As an American by force not by choice, it's infuriating how self-centered people here can be. "Hey so this will be better for the vast majority of people" "But what about meee and what I waannt?? Don't you care what I wantttt???" Pmo
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u/wombatgeneral 25d ago
I go fishing and the pier has a cleaning station. A lot of people will fillet a fish and not take the 20 seconds to rinse fish blood and slime off the table. It gets very gross very fast, especially if it's baking in 90+ degree heat. Really says a lot about the kind of person they are
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u/aereci 25d ago
Yeah, America is so bad. So much worse than nations like Saudi Arabia. America bad.
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u/wombatgeneral 25d ago
I've been to Cuba and Myanmar and the people were so much nicer than the US. They are objectively worse places to live than Saudi Arabia.
Plus America has a shit ton of gun violence too.
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u/Majestic-Nobody545 26d ago
Ok, but I adopted two very strong dogs when I was married and able-bodied.
My husband turned to shit, and we divored, so I no longer had someone to split the responsibility with.
Later, I became very ill and I was diagnosed with cancer, and for some time, I couldn't physically restrain my own dogs.
Should my continued ownership have been illegal? Should my dogs who only knew me as their family been removed from my care?
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u/Bubbly_Razzmatazz309 26d ago
...yes, if you cannot physically restrain your dogs you shouldn't own them.
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u/Majestic-Nobody545 26d ago
That's crazy considering I did recover and they lived fulfilling, uneventful lives from start to finish.
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u/dingopaint 26d ago
Were your dogs posing a threat to your community?
If so, then yes, I don't care what sob story circumstances led to that situation, you don't have the right to inflict damage on others via your dogs. Hire an able-bodied dog walker, rehome them or euthanize them if they're that dangerous.
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u/Majestic-Nobody545 26d ago
No, never.
They also weren't dangerous, they were just 'big'. But, of course, any dog has the potential to become dangerous.
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u/tes_befil 26d ago
This is basically only men should be allowed to have big dogs.
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u/PainterLonely1313 26d ago
Yeah. Kind of defeats the point of having a guard dog as a woman if you can only have a dog you can physically restrain.
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u/evil_disco_x 26d ago
Not really, controlling dogs is a skill like anything else. Go to an animal shelter and it’s likely majority women that are taking care of large reactive dogs on a daily basis.
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u/Sofiwyn 26d ago edited 25d ago
I wish "rescues" followed this. I love my dog, but the rescue lied to me about his age and weight. My "fully grown 50-pound max" dog is actually 80 pounds and was basically a puppy when I adopted him. I can restrain him now, but I didn't enjoy having to physically get stronger. I was 100 pounds when I adopted him, now I'm 129.
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u/Ariandrin 26d ago
On the flip side, the shelter told me my dog would likely end up being 80 pounds because that’s what mom was. She’s 45 pounds.
Shelters just shouldn’t hypothesize about what a pet’s adult weight would be. It’s completely unreliable unless the animal is purebred (in which case you’re not likely to be getting it from a shelter)
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u/B1ack__j3sus98 26d ago
Would you adopt an animal with no idea how big it could possibly get?
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u/Ariandrin 26d ago
I was prepared for an 80 pound dog, that’s why
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u/B1ack__j3sus98 26d ago
Im saying if shelters refused to even guess adult weights you dont think that would decrease adoptions?
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u/Ariandrin 26d ago
Maybe, but I think if you’re adopting a rescue that isn’t grown, you should understand that the shelter can’t be sure what breeds are in there unless they do a test, which is prohibitively expensive for shelters, and so anything they tell you is a guess. Sometimes not even a good guess, I’ve seen some very questionable labels on dogs that just screamed wrong.
What concerns me is someone getting a dog based on what the shelter said, only to end up with a dog that is way bigger than what they are prepared for, and so that dog may not be properly trained, may exhibit poor behavior because of this, and end up returned to the shelter or euthanized. Which is a story I’ve seen waaaaay too frequently.
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u/sagew0lf 26d ago
I used a weight calculator with my rescue puppy. I also thought she'd be 70-85 pounds and she topped out at 38, lol. No one lied to me, though, it's just impossible to actually tell how big mixed breed dogs are going to get.
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u/Ariandrin 25d ago
Oh I definitely wouldn’t call it a lie, just a wrong guess, because it is impossible to tell a mixed breed dog lol.
My pup’s mom is a mastiff mix of some kind (very obviously so, I saw the photo), so I was expecting my pup to get quite big. But she looks like a lab/pit mix. But smaller than a lab even. She’s less than ten pounds heavier than my mom’s purebred mini Aussie Shepherd lol
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25d ago
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u/Ariandrin 25d ago
I keep meaning to get a DNA test for my pup and I keep forgetting lol
The shelter I got her from only ever said “breed best guess: X” and if they know the parents, they include the weights of the parents. So they make it pretty clear that it’s a guess, but people are inattentive enough that it goes over their heads
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u/sagew0lf 25d ago
I got Embark on their Black Friday sale a few years ago. I think it was half off!
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u/Ariandrin 25d ago
That’s an amazing deal, holy. I will have to keep my eye out for a sale like that
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u/sagew0lf 25d ago
yeah they are SO expensive, lol. It being half off is the only way I could rationalize it. It doesn't really matter what breeds she is, but I was just so curious!
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u/Ariandrin 25d ago
I am curious about the breeds just because I want to be aware of any breed-associated health issues I need to watch for as she gets older. I have suspicions but knowing for sure would make me a less hypochondriac pet mom lol
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u/baws3031 26d ago
Where's the hot take?
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u/Artistic-Usual7151 26d ago
In the comments, apparently "pit bull mommies" are pissed. In my mind this is common sense
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u/SheriffHarryBawls 26d ago
Dog size should be limited to 10% of owners weight. You weigh 200lbs? Can’t own a breed that averages 20+ lbs as adult
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u/nataliebee69 26d ago
Damn why do I need to put on like 1100 lbs to justify my pyr that I have zero issue controlling.
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u/SmeggingRight 25d ago
Am now imagining some fat turd running down the road after a massive dog he's legally allowed to own but too puffed to catch.
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u/Jazzlike_Term210 26d ago
I understand why you feel this way, but I think there’s too many factors for this to be the way to go about it. It’d be much more beneficial to force everyone with a dog to complete a training class and be tested once every 1-3 years. People just aren’t bright enough to react faster than a dog anyhow regardless of whether they can restrain it, not to mention there’s really no way to test “can you restrain your dog?” Seen plenty of strong people who couldn’t restrain for shit, and I myself and not the strongest but I’m trained in animal restraint so I can easily handle a large dog. Classes are testable and more reliable at least.
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u/allenrfe 26d ago
I agree; however, owning a gun is just a background check. The last gun I bought took less time and documentation than my last pet adoption. The people at the pound even gave me some pet-specific training.
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u/Daxandbear 26d ago
Not all big dogs are like this but I see ypur point a happy playful pup that's big the size can cause injuries but law should only apply if taking out for a walk. Hours that have a back yard unnecessary
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u/BloodyThirst 26d ago
One of my neighbors has what she describes as a high risk dog- a pitbull that has attacked more than one person. The dog is always leashed but it’s huge and she is not. She walks around the neighborhood and told me to move out of the way with my dog (also leashed) so she could walk by and her dog not attack mine. I asked her if she thought everyone and everything should be catering to her and a dangerous dog she obviously can’t control? Pissed her right the fuck off🤣
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u/SmeggingRight 25d ago
Ask her to leash her dog to a secure belt or harness that she wears. Then it's easy for her to stop her dog from running off and harming another animal. Because it can't physically get away from her.
If she doesn't agree to that, she should not have the dog.
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u/International-Gap165 25d ago
I am a dog person and I work with dogs and I 100000% agree. I think that people should be legally licensed to own certain dog breeds only if they have the experience, training, space, and knowledge to properly train and control their dog. I just watched a video of this woman who had a very dangerous pit bull that had attacked and bitten several people and she called the police to put her dog down because she let it run loose. Not only that but I could tell that this lady didn’t ever train the dog and she bought it from a backyard breeder. What infuriated me the most is that she blamed the officers for not doing their job when they got attacked in the process. Lady, that is your dog! If people don’t care to properly train their dogs, then they shouldn’t have one.
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u/Pitiful_Debt4274 25d ago
As a dog owner, I 100% agree. I grew up with basset hounds, which aren't even technically "guard dogs" the way some other breeds are, but they can get up to 80 lbs and be pretty vicious. When I was 10 my parents would make me walk our untrained basset by myself as part of my "chores." I could barely hold him back when he saw another dog, there were a few times he got away from me and ran. Granted bassets don't run very fast, but if you're the other owner it's not easy to maneuver away from something that's essentially a 4ft long, 80lb snarling floor sausage.
I should've had an adult with me, for sure. More regulations around large dogs might make parents consider that.
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u/dribanlycan 25d ago
honestly, i think dog training is far, far more important than people think, and no one puts the time and effort their dogs deserve. while i dont think physically being able to restrain your dog is necessary, i do think if you have a large dog breed, you should have to put in the effort to train them to follow commands and tolerate stress, and i think a permit should be required for atleast adoption or purchase from a reputable breeder, it just makes sense. id even do as far to say owning any dog period should need proof of proper able to train and manage the animal.
if i can take a food obsessed stray dog and train her to not lunge for food, someone can train their great dane to follow verbal commands.
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u/DarthSwash 25d ago
This. I have big strong dogs. They are both well behaved and decently well trained. When I say down, they go down. When I call for a heel, they snap too my heel. It took an extraordinary ammount of effort, and reinforcement to make them into the dogs they are today. I am constantly at war and detest these goofy old ladies that walk around with their untrained lap dog mutts off leash, and try to get mouthy with me when i tell them to put their fucking dogs on a leash or train even basic recall into them.
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u/SmeggingRight 25d ago
This means that no one, and I do mean no one, can have a pit bull or any other kind of dog with fighting dog genes in its breed history. For obvious reasons.
But if I need to spell it out, the reason is that no one is fast enough or superhuman enough to stop an attack.
Supervision loses all meaning when a pit bull/cane corso/bull mastiff/rottweiler. Training loses all meaning, because there have been many cases of "well trained" pit bulls suddenly killing or mauling the kids of the house. Such the Bennard family kids. "Well trained" pit bulls are no guarantee of safety.
Such dogs can attack without humans noticing any warning signs, and do massive damage in the blink of an eye. If it's a baby or small kid, then death can happen in an instant if the dog closes their huge jaws over the kid's head and cracks their skull. If it's two or more pit bulls, the kid can be the victim of a sudden tug of war between the dogs.
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u/Imaginary-Sand-1417 25d ago
Although this is a good idea, I do see some potential issues. What if someone gets a dog that they are fully capable of restraining, but then the person gets disabled or injured, either permanently or temporarily. Would they then have to give up their dog?
What if they eg break their leg or arm so it's only a temporary issue? What if a woman gets pregnant and for the last few weeks cannot restrain the dog?
I just don't see this as being enforceable or practical in real life.... I am however against frail old people owning very large dogs, especially multiple at the same time.
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u/Opposite-Check5274 25d ago
This is the dumbest thing I've seen on the internet in a while. Congrats. It's basically an argument against women having large dogs. I have had dogs my entire adult life, big ones, little ones, scruffy ones. I take them to this magical place called ✨️ training ✨️, where a professional helps my dog become a good canine citizen and a reliable creep deterrent. A dog that has appropriate housing, socialization, exercise and training won't have to be physically restrained.
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u/-Shep-- 24d ago
I agree with the sentiment but in practice this wouldn’t work. Issue is that mainly strong, large men would end up owning the dangerous dogs and large dogs which would bleed into equal rights and sexism issues. The better way to avoid dog attacks and irresponsible owners would be to completely ban and require the sterilization of any and all bull breeds, fighting breeds, or other known extremely aggressive “mauling” breeds. I’m not talking dogs that usually bite and let go, I’m talking pit bull terriers, staffies, rotties, tosa inu, etc. any breed that is genetically bred for aggression and the drive to kill, specifically. The punishment for not sterilizing a dog of this breed should be seizure and possibly destruction of the dog and a very heavy fine ($1000s at least). There should also be more restrictions on dogs in public. If your dog is seen acting out, being aggressively reactive, aggressive in general, or you are unable to control it then it should be mandatory for you to take a training class by a professional and it should be required to be muzzled at all times. If the dog is seen without muzzle or you refuse training the dog should be seized and in aggressive cases destroyed.
Pit mommies and rescue blubbers are constantly trying to make bully breeds seem like misunderstood minorities and equate it to racism when that is not only incredibly disrespectful to people that actually suffer from racism but is wrong in ideology as well. Bullies were bred to fight and to kill, it’s not how they were raised or that they’re abused. They were bred for generations specifically for that trait. They have no business being in the hands of regular people and honestly have no business in a world where dog fighting is (or in some places still needs to be) highly illegal. A bully breed is not a guard dog either. They are aggressive, not protective. They may protect you on accident but they’ll gladly attack you too if something entices them to do it.
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u/This-Woodpecker4253 23d ago
The honest truth is it doesnt matter to me. What does matter is actually training and knowing the dog. Some breeds can't be off leash, mine can't, bro is liable to fuck off after everything he sees as prey because it's a hunting breed but bro melts as soon as he sees a person.
Some massive dogs are perfectly fine off leash as long as they're trained right. Imo the conversation should be that owners can be held criminally liable if their dog assaults someone period. For the most part the dog needs to already be declared dangerous for this to occur or proof of criminal negligence. Imo not training a dog is criminal neglect.
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u/bassman2070 26d ago
Hot take - owning dogs isn't even necessary and while people think it enhances their lives, they're really more trouble than they're worth (price to feed and maintain, can't go on vacations without getting a sitter, vet bills, picking up dog poop... and they really only love you because you feed them) - dog ownership should be banned
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u/Muhahahahaz 26d ago edited 26d ago
In what way, exactly? All my dogs have leashes… They’re already restrained.
My largest dog is an absolute sweetheart, and would never attack anyone. Maybe he could forcefully get away if he really wanted to, but you don’t get to decide who he is or how I train him. Leash laws already exist for a reason, and I use a leash with all my dogs, no matter how big or small (or their temperament).
But also, I’m very responsible with my dogs. In fact, my largest only leaves the house for the vet, quite frankly. Who are you to decide that I’m not allowed to have him, if he never goes on public walks (for instance) in the first place?
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u/Konoshy_831 26d ago
"Maybe he could forcefully get away if he really wanted to" is exactly what OP is referring to. When a dog really wants to leave your side is the most critical time to be able to keep them from doing so.
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u/Muhahahahaz 26d ago
Uh-huh… So my dog is just illegal then? No.
Like I said, I already do everything necessary to make sure something like that could never happen.
Maybe go after the people who are intentionally being irresponsible and ruining it for the rest of us, rather than outlawing my dog for no reason, when none of y’all will literally ever see him in public, because he doesn’t leave my fucking house in the first place 🤷
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u/poopybutthole_oowee 26d ago
I agree. This is a chronic issue with elderly people where I live. Can't physically control their dog, never use a leash as a result, and 98% of the time the dog is essentially untrained. My dog gets bum-rushed constantly by these dogs and the owners take ZERO responsibility.