r/JoeRogan • u/Mirakuru68 Monkey in Space • 9h ago
The Literature đ§ Rogan pinpointed that the border issue was the one that drove him away from the Democrat Party.
285
u/Valmoer We live in strange times 9h ago
I thought it was the trans issue. Or wait, I thought it was the vaccine issue. Or I think it was...
... oh, who are we kidding. It was the tax issue.
62
u/Coastalfoxes Monkey in Space 6h ago
Biden and Obama both deported millions of people, and spent millions on border enforcement. They just didnât do it by having masked jack-booted thugs snatch people off the street while shooting American citizens.
43
u/the_Cheese999 6h ago
It's because rightoids and moron don't actually want efficiency.
They want over the top performative cruelty as entertainment.
3
4
2
â˘
u/Haroonizad Monkey in Space 31m ago
Cruelty by the means of war and finance. They dont seem to any problem when they get robbed too. Lack of any republican polititian/commentators adressing everything from crypto scam, oil market scam, gambling companies rampantly advertising it down children's throats.. The fiscal polices mostly failed, the war failed harder. Morally degrading our country at a rapid pace as well. when shit like bombing schools is questioned Trump: "We may have done it I dont care" his response was something along those lines. Shit like definetly affects the psyche of everyone without it being visible externally. While the zionist right wingers dont seem to care about any of this shit and wants to BOMB IRAN AND KHARG AND ALL INFRASTRUCTURE thankfully unlike poor Palestine They possess missiles that dont seem to miss even my meter lol.
14
u/TheWayIAm313 Monkey in Space 7h ago
Also, he doesnât like that weâre essentially a 2 party system but shits on anyone that doesnât fit in those boxes, like Mamdani, AOC, and now even Bernie
51
u/estimated_hobbit Monkey in Space 8h ago
Thatâs true. These Austin comedians worry about their millions and want to act like itâs about other shit.
19
u/JasonPlattMusic34 Monkey in Space 8h ago
I thought it was the Covid closures
46
u/WildMild869 Monkey in Space 8h ago edited 5h ago
Thatâs what initially broke Roganâs mind.
His life was literally this most days: workout, go out since you donât have a real job, fancy restaurant, podcasts, comedy club with the boys.
After living such a cushioned and care-free life for so long, Rogan could not comprehend why HE wasnât allowed to do the fun stuff that comprised most of his easy day-to-day.
→ More replies (7)4
u/Motampd Monkey in Space 3h ago
I really think this is a huge part of the COVID pushback among the "upper-class"....I know ive said it before.
It was in large part because they were ACTUALLY TREATED LIKE EVERYONE ELSE for the first time in thier lives!
Money always got them past the line at the door, or free to ignore rules or consequences
They were extremely offended to be told they actually have to act like everyone else, and their money doesn't buy them special treatment/exemptions like it always had.
Society basically told them that their wealth (the one thing that makes them better than everyone else, in their minds) temporarily didn't make them better and they really didn't like that.
7
u/V4refugee Monkey in Space 7h ago
It was the stateâs rights issue./s
Letâs be real, there are many mediocre men who want a hierarchy based on something other than merit so that they can feel superior and important.
2
u/Time_Possibility_370 Monkey in Space 6h ago
My guy always advocating for a monarchy because itâs better than democracy. Welp how you like me now
2
1
u/External-Damage803 Monkey in Space 5h ago
No, it was all of the concepts of plans to make peoples lives better. No wait, itâs all of the above.
-1
u/PossibleVariety7927 Monkey in Space 5h ago
I meant there's more than one issue... But I know first hand the immigration issue freaked a lot of people out. It felt like just a mass surge of unlimited migrants entering in mass... At a time of tightening economics. I knwo many people who considered this the tipping point, with the other stuff being serious frustrations.
4
u/BingleFlip94 Monkey in Space 4h ago
Why does everyone think that there was unlimited immigration during Biden? That literally never happened.
→ More replies (1)4
u/ragun2 Monkey in Space 5h ago
If people paid attention they'd see how the threat only seems to flare up around midterms or the GE.
→ More replies (1)2
u/mooby117 Monkey in Space 4h ago
Good thing there wasn't bipartisan legislation to do something, that Trump told them to spike so he can run on it.
Oh wait....
2
u/PugilisticCat Monkey in Space 3h ago
It felt like just a mass surge of unlimited migrants entering in mass..
It's straight up hard to have conversations about stuff like this when most people get their news and understanding of the world from the most horrendous sources that are actively manipulated or outright botted.
Having a stance of wanting to tighten immigration policies is reasonable and a discussion to be had. Flooding the zone with bullshit about how your opponents are welcoming a billion trans rapists across the border with open arms and paying for them is not.
There never was a surge of "unlimited migrants". I explicitly remember reading stories critical of the Biden administrations asylum process being confusing, random, and inefficient in terms of processing. He was not "letting unlimited migrants in through open borders".
For further proof that this was a made up wedge issue that Bannon and co cooked up, look at how democratic legislation introduced in 2024 to tighten up on immigration was explicitly killed by Trump telling members of Congress to kill it and not let it become law. You don't get to bitch about a problem and then prevent people from solving it. That is manipulation 101 and the Republican MO.
It is why we are in these giant quagmires of shit that we are now. Too many people stirred up by manufactured anger and dissatisfaction and willing to accept absolutely retarded leaders
0
u/ellipses1 Monkey in Space 4h ago
At any given point, an issue pops up and given the two party system, you basically see 2 ways of responding to it and surprise, some people tend to align with one side more than the other on most issues
64
u/FOUR3Y3DDRAGON Monkey in Space 7h ago
All republicans need to do to win these dumbfucks over every time is pretend there's another big scary convoy of foreigners coming every election and these morons fall in line every single time.
14
u/dringer Monkey in Space 7h ago
They tried to do it this year but with the economy being shit it doesn't work. Btw dont forget this administration is using ice while allowing and even profiting off h1b1 visas from tech companies.
→ More replies (4)7
u/TheSweetestKill Most Reported r/JoeRogan User, August 2022 5h ago
Yup, every couple of years the ole "migrant caravan" conveniently makes its way to the southern border - excuse me, "boarder" - just in time for November.
â˘
u/xChoke1x Monkey in Space 1h ago
They fall for it every single time.
They REALLY BELIEVE there was no border. He really believes they just abandoned all the borders and said âehh just come on in.â
Theyâre insane people that are prone to bullshit.
2
→ More replies (4)â˘
u/dreddnyc Monkey in Space 34m ago
They are literally addicted to being scared. Itâs a drug and places like faux news are the dealers.
69
u/voidpush Monkey in Space 8h ago
Letâs be honest, it was whatever issue whatever right wing nut job he had on leading up to the election. He ate it all up. And if it was a right wing decision? Oh, well the Democrats let that happen so that was their fault too lol
All pushed further to the right because of how COVID was handled. Even though he conveniently forgets how much of COVID happened under Trump.
The bubble Joe built around himself from 2020 to Trumpâs eventual win was quite impressive. Go find how much he talked about Jan 6 after it happened. You likely canât even find a clip. Now go find how many times heâs brought up masks and vaccines just in the last year.
18
u/Amazing-Heron-105 Monkey in Space 8h ago
Talking about covid in 2026 is a major red flag
→ More replies (2)4
20
u/GestureArtist Monkey in Space 8h ago edited 8h ago
he doesn't know what it is.. yet he has several ideas as to exactly why it happened and of course it's all one big conspiracy to help democrats...
Joe's mind is so fucked sideways that he doesnt know... but really he knows... or so he thinks.
Why can't he just admit that Trump and his corrupt government conspired to rip off America and everything they've done has fucked Americans lives up completely?
19
u/whitestguyuknow Monkey in Space 7h ago
The issue where Joe Biden was working at a unanimous bipartisan bill to invest in locking down until Trump started calling up favors cause democrats locking down the border would look bad on him and his singular issue? THAT issue?
→ More replies (6)
33
u/A_VERY_LARGE_DOG Monkey in Space 8h ago
Yes. CLEARLY it was the deep state left working with political refugees from Central America to boost democratic voter roles. Great non-divisive messaging, Joe.
-15
u/Texmex865 Monkey in Space 8h ago
Well it wasnât happening before 2020 and it stopped immediately before the election when it became a big dealâŚâŚso they obviously LET it happen. Thatâs all heâs saying. He admitted in the video he doesnât know why.
21
u/DropsyJolt Monkey in Space 8h ago
Specifically what stopped immediately before the election?
→ More replies (25)-2
u/PurpSSBM Monkey in Space 8h ago
Hmm itâs almost like something was happening around 2020 that stopped it, and then after that thing was over a huge influx of back logged immigrants had to be accounted for
36
u/Da_Stable_Genius Monkey in Space 8h ago
Funny, and here I thought it was the bag of cash he accepted.
12
3
u/DigitalUnlimited Monkey in Space 8h ago
Hey, hey now he's not that shallow and easily bought! It was a MASSIVE bag of cash!
-3
-9
u/NiceTrySuckaz Monkey in Space 8h ago
"I choose to ignore the post and what Joe is saying completely, and just attack Joe for getting rich by providing a free podcast I don't listen to"
0
u/TheIntelAgency Monkey in Space 3h ago
Donât be silly the money was just an added bonus to the situation. Lol you know itâs like when people pretend not to notice money that falls into their lap from a birthday or Christmas card. OOOH wow, sorry I was reading
13
u/pedronaps Monkey in Space 8h ago
This is the same asshole who used to say "borders are just imaginary lines, man".
16
u/Bawbawian Monkey in Space 8h ago
it's weird because literally every single piece of comprehensive immigration reform in the last 40 years was stopped by Republicans.
it's almost like they know that the corrupt news media will allow them to get away with anything and they can actually make all of our problems worse while showing the Carnage that they have created and using it as a reason you should elect them
8
u/Rockwell1977 Monkey in Space 7h ago
Hard cope, dude. The guy got Trump elected. Deal with that one.
4
u/Hungry_Prior940 Monkey in Space 4h ago
I mean Biden and Kamala got him elected more than anyone tbh. Joe is clueless though.
1
u/Rockwell1977 Monkey in Space 3h ago
Running against him as bad candidates, to put it mildly, is not the same as publicly supporting and promoting.
9
u/TheWayIAm313 Monkey in Space 7h ago
He has so much vitriol for the left. That heart rate SPIKES when he gets going
2
u/willmcavoy Monkey in Space 3h ago
It's any MAGA person. Any time you try and talk to them they increasingly get angry. They always want to joke about politics, or talk about it, but when you try and point out faults in their logic they get heated real fucking quick.
4
7
u/arazamatazguy Monkey in Space 7h ago
I would assume Joe didn't bring this up even one single time when it was happening.
His handlers have told him to shit on the Democrats and be more pro-Republican but there isn't many positive things to say so they told him to beat this old drum and he jumped at it.
5
u/Hustlepuff- Monkey in Space 7h ago edited 7h ago
Considering how different his opinions were years ago I'd say he is now realizing he forgot how dumb he can be.
He was always prone to believe dumb shit and he couldn't ignore what people were saying like he used to because he was so big.
I started listening to him from the earliest episodes in 2020 so by the time I got to his new episodes he was already starting the shift. The thing I noticed was left leaning total cunty comments before he shifted to the right.
The first episode I saw was Bernie and the backlash from that was weird as fuck to me considering how much the democratic party didnt want Bernie. I have only voted democrat so not trying to act like the left is fucked but it really feels like it online. It is constant blaming with zero nuance and zero conversation about the faults of the democrat party.
I cant mention anything critical about democrats on the app without being called a closet conservative or some other dumb shit. It is embarrassing to fully support either party at this point imo. I vote Democrat because I have no other choice but at the level of murdering innocent people in other countries the democrats and republicans are the same.
The left using equality and the right uses religion to continue this bullshit while our country continues to ruin generations of lives. It fucking sucks. There are individuals in the party that care but the parties as a whole seems pretty evil to me but I could be wrong I am not an above average Intelligence person or anything. I just feel like I notice things most ignore and it's frustrating
â˘
u/havenyahon Monkey in Space 16m ago
"It really feels like it online" sums the whole thing up. Most of the left and the right are nothing like they're represented online. People like Joe are reacting to a bunch of voices that are amplified and over represented online. They see the memes, the boosted articles, the Twitter debates, and they make their judgments of half the population based on them.
0
u/Perfect-Junket-165 Monkey in Space 5h ago
"Democrat party"
3
u/Hustlepuff- Monkey in Space 4h ago
Is that dumb to say? I've been trying to stop saying left and right because I know that's more than political affiliation. I just forget because of this bullshit 2 party thing our country keeps voting for
1
u/beatlemaniac711 Monkey in Space 3h ago
It's Democratic and it's always been that way
1
u/Hustlepuff- Monkey in Space 2h ago
Ah gotcha. I dont comment on politics often so I usually say something wrong when I do. The last time I was corrected on referring to the democratic party as the left so I am getting there hopefully lol
â˘
u/Perfect-Junket-165 Monkey in Space 1h ago edited 1h ago
Trump has popularized the incorrect name as a dig. So mostly right-wing trolls say ÂŤDemocrat PartyÂť
â˘
u/Hustlepuff- Monkey in Space 46m ago
Ah I wonder if that original comment mentioning it thought I supported maga and made all of that stuff up
â˘
8
u/Ash_is_Robot Monkey in Space 8h ago
BS it was trans and woke. He was tHe LaSt LiNe Of DeFeNsE
7
u/Amazing-Heron-105 Monkey in Space 8h ago
WHERE THE WOKE MEETS THE WALL đŞđŞđŞ
4
u/Ash_is_Robot Monkey in Space 8h ago
He was so excited when he heard that and couldnât stop saying it. Fucking moron
2
u/ragun2 Monkey in Space 4h ago edited 3h ago
I like when he started throwing around "high-level problem solving with dire physical consequences" every chance he could get.
IIRC he threw that out to Dr Rhonda Patrick and she was like "...wot?" so he repeated it and she just went "...ooooookaaaaay" and moved on.
3
u/goatcheezre Monkey in Space 8h ago
Iâd almost believe him if he clarifies that heâs talking about the border to the ladies bathroom.
5
u/ChuckFarkley Monkey in Space 6h ago
Anytime someone calls it The Democrat Party, They are GOP operatives.
6
u/Clarkelthekat A Deaf Jack Russell Terrier 5h ago
Most of what Joe said about Democrats in this is rigt wing propaganda
The Democrats haven't had a primary since 2012?
oh yeah?
That's reality now?
8
u/ObjectiveHat26 Monkey in Space 9h ago
lol. Sue joe.
3
3
u/post_appt_bliss Monkey in Space 7h ago
... around the time he started attending an evangelical christian service?
5
u/Kriegerian A Deaf Jack Russell Terrier 6h ago
So it was racism, go figure.
2
u/balla_mang Monkey in Space 6h ago
So disappointing. The pandemic and drugs mushed his brain beyond repair
15
u/Y0___0Y Monkey in Space 8h ago
Most American people were totally okay with immigrants coming in legally through the southern border for decades.
That changed when MAGA convinced most Americans of their lie that immigrants were causing crime and stealing jobs from Americans. Now the legal immigration process was âan open borderâ
2024 was the first year in decades that Americans told pollsters they want less legal immigration.
The Biden administration acknowledged this shift in public sentiment and introduced a bill in congress to introduce more restrictions on the southern border. And to close it if too many people were requesting asylum.
The Republicans blocked that bill. And the Democrats lost the election for being âpro open bordersâ after they tried to close the fucking border.
4
u/Kuros_Of_Sindarin Monkey in Space 8h ago
Dude its the increase in illegal crossings that made everyone lose their mind. It had nothing to do with legal immigration.
16
u/Y0___0Y Monkey in Space 7h ago
Illegal border crossings make up a small portion of illegal immigration. Most come legally and overstay their visas.
And when conservatives say âopen borderâ they are trying to sow confusion. They refer to the legal asylum process as âopen bordersâ. The Biden administration was detaining illegal border crossers. And the Biden administration tried to pass more funding for border patrol. The Republicans blocked it because they wanted to run on the issue in 24.
But a lot of people hear âopen bordersâ and assume Democrats allow all illegal crossings. Thatâs what Joe has been tricked into believing and spreading. And itâs not true.
You can argue Biden did not deport enough people but DHS deported more than 1 million illegal immigrants in his 4 years as president. Ask most conservatives and theyâd say Biden didnât deport anyone.
In 2024, under Biden, ICE deported more illegal immigrants than they had any year in the past decade. Obama deported more in 2013.
The Democrats were listening to what the people wanted. But the Republican propaganda is too strong and too many people have been tricked into believing this made up story about Democrats opening up the borders to everyone and refusing to deport anyone.
If you believe that, youâve been conned and as a result we have a child rapist convicted of felony fraud as president who has shut down the Epstein investigation and started a new middle east quagmire war and a global trade war that are both skyrocketing inflation.
→ More replies (35)5
u/Groundsw3ll Monkey in Space 6h ago
My favorite part was Trumps first term, he sold his base âextreme vetting!â All you had to do was look it up, same exact policy and system carried over from Obama. The immigration fear mongering has worked on the same people for generations. Canât stop that single issue voter gravy train!
3
u/dogscangrowbeards Monkey in Space 7h ago
Isn't it weird that as soon as Trump was elected they stopped going to the border? Almost like someone was facilitating it. But there's no way a country would use migrants as a political tool to scare citizens. cough Morrocco, Russia, Belarus, Libya, Turkey that we know of.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/11/09/belarus-poland-border-crisis-migrants-european-union/
https://www.yahoo.com/news/finland-keep-russia-border-closed-112754810.html
https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2016/11/25/turkey-threatens-eu-with-new-refugee-surge
1
u/PreviousAvocado9967 Monkey in Space 4h ago
The border surge was largely over before election day. And had the border bill been passed sooner, instead of Trump facilitating the situation getting dragged out even longer by ordering the Langkford bill not see an up or down vote, the surge would have been over well before the first debate. Trump facilitated the dysfunction so he could campaign on it. Notwithstanding the fact that we dont have an orderly immigration system EXACTLY because of Republicans blocking any reform or expansion of employment based visas to the point that 98% of legal applications are rejected. And then mostly red states hire them anyway for poultry in red Arkansas, Georgia, Louisiana, for meat packing in red Texas, Nebraska and Oklahoma, for pork in red South and North Carolina, for produce in virtually every red state, for dairy in the red counties of Wisconsin, for construction in southern red states with housing development booms due to cheap land.
1
u/Kuros_Of_Sindarin Monkey in Space 7h ago
I'd wager it stoped because they understand the trump administration was going to take a much harsher approach to handing illegal boarder crossing. Prior admins were letting them cross ...so of course they'd come in masses during that time.
2
u/dogscangrowbeards Monkey in Space 5h ago
I mean I'm sure that's some of it. But I do more mean stuff like the caravans and some of the larger spectacles. That occurred during the Biden years as they also spun up elsewhere in the world with specific aims in mind.
2
u/Kuros_Of_Sindarin Monkey in Space 4h ago
Yeah, you're probably correct on that. No argument that shit like that is politically motivated and all that.
3
u/seizure_opportunity Monkey in Space 7h ago
When ICE is deporting legal citizens it does have to do with legal immigration.
3
u/Kuros_Of_Sindarin Monkey in Space 7h ago
We are talking about what drove the narrative when this issue took off, not where it is today. Illegal boarder crossings were absolutely an issue. The prior admins failure to address it was a gift to the right politically speaking.
-3
u/montdawgg Monkey in Space 7h ago
100%. I can't believe people don't understand this shit. Every citizen wants secure borders. The Democrat side, libertarian side, Republican, conservative, whatever the hell you are, everybody thinks it's a good idea to have a secure border. That's not the same thing as a closed border or a shut-down border, because I think as citizens, we also are taught that legal immigration is one of the best American values, but see, that infrastructure needs to be improved as well so it's not taking somebody 10 years to legally immigrate.
So, the previous administration, allowing anybody and everybody to just cross over the border en masse and do the games that Rogan was pointing out, yeah, that was a huge issue. And a direct political gift to the Right. If that was Democratic-led, it was one of the worst blunders in history and they deserve to be called out for causing or allowing Donald Trump to become president.
2
u/Sidereel 6h ago
allowing anybody and everybody to cross
Not a thing at any point in recent history
1
u/Ya_No Monkey in Space 7h ago edited 7h ago
Ah yes âit had nothing to do with legal immigrationâ as evidenced by operation metro surge and the countless other ICE raids.
1
u/V4refugee Monkey in Space 7h ago
Is that the operation where illiterate untrained goons tackle and arrest abuelitas and single mothers outside their scheduled immigration court hearings? What do they do with the children after they arrest the parents?
2
u/Kuros_Of_Sindarin Monkey in Space 7h ago
Look, I don't like or support ice at all. But it's also disingenuous to say the stated purpose of ice is to remove legal immigrants. The entire deal was to get illegals out of the country. Clearly they ended up going above and beyond that to the point where they went after American citizens.
7
u/Ya_No Monkey in Space 7h ago
You can say what the stated purpose is all you want but what matters is what they actually did. I live in Minnesota. I saw first hand ICE terrorizing neighborhoods, closing down businesses and threatening to arrest legal residents despite immigrating here legally. The fact that Republicans clapped like seals as it was happening tells me it has nothing to do with âlegalâ immigration. They just donât like immigration in general.
1
u/mred245 Monkey in Space 6h ago
https://x.com/bofrench/status/2099118916282810552?
These folks were all here legally and yet I've seen this exact picture circulated widely by conservatives. It's racism and white nationalism.Â
0
u/PreviousAvocado9967 Monkey in Space 5h ago edited 4h ago
Which is largely bullshit. And what is true is nearly entirely the Republicans fault. Whenever the economy is running hot undocumented crossing surge past 200k per month. When the economy sucks like now it falls below 100k. When the economy is mediocre its somewhere in between. When the economy gets absolutely stimulated to the red line like during the pandemic with literally trillions in stimulus checks, $500 monthly child tax credits, bailouts that don't have to be repaid like the PPP loans, then monthly undocumented crossing goes past 300k per month.
And the monthly numbers we saw during Biden were basically the sams as under Clinton's second term aka when we last had an economy that was the fastest growing and strongest in the world, before China was in the picture. Yet Clinton's approval rating was in the 77% range with nearly the same undocumented crossing as Biden who got "blamed" with 35% approval. The difference is that Republicans turned undocumented immigration into "an invasion" which is a military term. The media reported it as a "crisis at the border". We've seen this type of politics for the last 150 years. Except before it was 13 million immigrants from Europe flooding the border, nearly half the entire population of Italy in the late 1800s to early 1900s. And just like then as during Biden all of those immigrants were directly absorbed into the labor force which was SEVERELY short of manual labor at the start of the pandemic. Without that "surge at the border" labor cost inflation would have put consumer inflation well past 10%. Instead those millions of new workers, both legal and undocumented, kept us out of a recession of worse.
As for why do they hop the wall or overstay visas? Because Republicans have blocked every single major immigration reform bill since the 1965 Immigration Act. The Republicans know that giving millions of hard working migrants a legal pathway to legal status means the two largest Republican states will go purple and then blue. 70 of the 270 electoral college votes needed gone forever because they are the most demographically non-white states. So the Republicans created an immigration system that rejects 98% of employment based visa applications. That rejects 95% of asylum applications. That grants only 10% or less of temporary guest worker visas actually needed by the agricultural industries. Basically the people who "do it the right way" must spend over $10k in lawyer costs and document fees, wait no less than 20 to 40 years, for a less than 2% chance of success for the type of visa that will actually allow you to work in the U.S..... Or they can just hop the wall, start working literally the next day and no employer will spend a minute in jail, particularly in the red states aka the biggest employers of undocumented labor and the most unlikely to require e-verify. If Trump signed a 50 state e-verify mandate nearly 90% of all undocumented workers would be identified and removed from payrolls without these gestapo ICE agents shooting anyone in the streets. But Republican owned businesses have pressured politicians to refuse e-verify requirements for all workers not just certain business sectors or none at all.
And now Republicans are targeting the million plus TPS immigrants and CAT/WOR refugees because ICE know that these are not the ones have felony records, that are most unlikely to be armed, most unlikely to have gang affiliations, know where they work, live, where their kids go to school, when they check in to court and immigration and are generally the low hanging fruit. 2 gestapo ICE agents can go out by themselves and come back with 20 asylum seekers without a fuss and put them into for profit detention centers. Whereas if they only targeted violent criminal fugitive aliens they would 5 times as many agents, spend many more hours and days just to arrest a small fraction of the numbers of the current mass incarceration.
0
u/Sidereel 6h ago
Why would anyone care when the people were being sent back? Itâs a moral panic drummed up by right wing propaganda.
0
u/Kuros_Of_Sindarin Monkey in Space 6h ago
Record people were also getting through and staying. Personally I don't care if people get through or not but bottom line is they were.
-1
u/Texmex865 Monkey in Space 8h ago
Your first sentence is completely true. Your second sentence doesnât make sense. âMAGAâ isnât in favor of illegal immigrationâŚ.and if you come into a country illegally, itâs a crime. Thatâs an issue. The border was open from 2020 until right before the election in 2024 because it was killing the democrats with swing voters. In 2024 people wanted less immigration because in the previous 4 years the border had been left wide open, they were giving illegal immigrants free access into our country, along with money, hotels, bus passes and food. The democrats wanted to pass the âborder billâ to look good. It was never required. It wasnât required from 2016-2020 and it wasnât required when the Biden Admin shut down the free flow of illegal e right before the electionâŚ..and it isnât required today.
8
u/Y0___0Y Monkey in Space 7h ago
Can I ask what you mean when you say the border was âwide openâ?
Youâre saying immigrations and customs engorcement was suspended and all illegal crossers were allowed in? Border security checkpoints closed and there was no vetting of anyone coming into the country?
I really hope thatâs not what you believe because itâs not even close to the truth and I can prove that.
-4
-4
u/Kid11734 Monkey in Space 7h ago
This is bullshit. They had years to address the border issue, and they never did until the very end when they realized how bad they had mismanaged it.
1
u/Y0___0Y Monkey in Space 7h ago
Public sentiment had not firmly shifted until 2024. Thatâs when independents and even some Democrat voters started to adopt the rightâs stance on immigration.
When the American people turned against immigration, Biden listened. ICE deported more people in 2024 than any year in the last decade. That includes any year in Trumpâs first term. He had Democrats vote to close the border and give border patrol additional funding, but the GOP stopped that.
So shouldnât you be blaming the GOP for getting in the way of harsher immigration restrictions just to deny their political opponents a win? Surely you agree that was not constructive.
→ More replies (6)
4
u/Shadowthron8 Monkey in Space 8h ago
Dude was radicalized by his totally objective observer buddy Elon Musk
3
u/NDHcinema Monkey in Space 8h ago
He looks like his skin is slowly melting off his face. Dude looks terrible
-3
2
u/Ok_Confusion_2439 Monkey in Space 6h ago
Weâve never had open borders what is this goofball talking about
2
2
u/Mode_Appropriate N-Dimethyltryptamine 8h ago
God damn those crazy eyes are getting bad.
Aside from that, pretty common reasons why a lot of people left the Democrats. Unfortunately, Joe decided to become buddy buddy with the guy he voted for so he'll never go that hard against him like he did Democrats. He'll continue to find reasons to bitch about Gavin Newsom while his friend continues to run the country into the ground.
1
1
u/Quiet325 Monkey in Space 4h ago
In a functioning country, the border is secure and immigration is a rapid, seamless process. Plenty of labor, plenty of people able to live here peacefully, no chaos/perceived chaos.
In America ⌠well, itâs a mess.
1
1
u/Charlie_NLG Monkey in Space 2h ago
Remember when Joe took his daughters to meet the predator at the White House.
â˘
u/Bunionzz Monkey in Space 42m ago
Isn't this the same guy that years ago said that imaginary lines in the dirt are stupid?
â˘
u/ScandalOZ Monkey in Space 10m ago
Not the insane housing costs, or medical costs, horrible job market, disastrous public schools, college debt, tax breaks for the wealthy. . .
Just needed to be reminded what to be racist about.
0
-2
u/paranood888 Monkey in Space 8h ago
This is stupid. USA, like all western democracies , is an aging country. You need new workforce or you won't be able to sustain your way of life. Japan and Korea are starting to pay the price. If you think Joe Rogan kids are gonna take care of the elderly as a job or work manual job ... lol.. Funniest thing is that immigration is linked to more GDP, and less crime (not correlated but you can totally see the graphs in Germany usa France of immigration GDP and homicide rate over the years its clear cut. Its just an easy target for dumb dumb
5
u/JohnnyTsunami312 I used to be addicted to Quake 7h ago
Where I live minorities take care of the oldest and the youngest (under 4 daycares). Theyâre emotionally exhausting jobs that donât pay well but are critical to helping people work so they can pay for those services. What does that say about the US?
3
u/climbtimePRN Monkey in Space 7h ago
Additional labor force helps employers/upper class because it makes services cheaper like landscaping or going out to eat but it's just extra competition if you're a blue collar worker.
2
u/Finlay00 Monkey in Space 7h ago
âWe need large groups of people to exploitâ
7
u/paranood888 Monkey in Space 7h ago
You only care about that when its time to find a scapegoat lol. If you d care about exploitation you would have decent worker rights, unions. Etc and you wouldn't have let Musk and Trump destroy your system like department of education... Medicare etc ... Also people knew they were the ones using H1bs... (the Musk and Trump of the world..)
→ More replies (6)2
u/Plaxidentshappen17 Monkey in Space 7h ago
We are a country of immigrants. âImmigrationâ is not the issue. Illegal immigration is the issue.
1
u/mred245 Monkey in Space 6h ago
Especially right now. Lots of people stopped or put off having kids after the 2008 crisis. That leaves a huge gap in young adults entering the workforce at the same time that one of the largest elderly population is retiring.
This is why the beef industry all got pissed when they sent ice to SW Kansas. It's where 25% of all our countries beef is finished and processed and they are wholly dependant on immigrant labor.
1
u/jamcgahey We live in strange times 6h ago
I think what they are against is illegal immigration or skipping the process by labeling someone a refugee or asylum seeker and using tax dollars to support them while most people can't afford housing or food. We are a country built by immigrants. I have friends that immigrated here and they get frustrated sometimes with how easy it is for some vs others. I'm not a proponent of excluding or preferentially selecting immigrants from particular countries. Just fill out the paperwork and do the pre requisite classes or whatever it is and welcome aboard.
About the stacking swing states with illegals idfk shit about that. I imagine if it were true there would be some super clear reports/investigations by now on it.
3
u/mred245 Monkey in Space 6h ago
Refugee status is not skipping the process it's a completely legal process.Â
When someone is fleeing gangs, famine, war, or political unrest it's not unreasonable to understand how they may not have had time or resources to file the proper paperwork.
1
u/jamcgahey We live in strange times 6h ago
No argument from me. I understand it is a legitimate status. Just sharing a perception that I have heard a lot of people bring up and how they feel towards it. I try to follow both sides and engage in a respectful way to discuss and learn things. Possibly even come to a better understanding of subjects I didn't realize I knew very little about.
2
u/Kriegerian A Deaf Jack Russell Terrier 6h ago
âStacking swing statesâ is a racist conspiracy theory, thatâs not real. Nobody is coming here to take a paycheck and vote Democrat. Like every other immigrant, theyâre coming here for better lives.
The real issue with the weirdness of the immigration system is that thatâs deliberate. American immigration policy, especially towards non-white people, has always been confusing and usually outright racist, like all the laws trying to ban Asian immigrants and the âwe want Mexicans to work in farm fields but we donât want them to actually live hereâ shit in Texas or wherever. Nobody wants to actually fix it and have a good system that makes sense because of the huge number of racist idiots who do not understand the vital role immigrants play in our economy and society.
Some of that is also caused by Americans not wanting to take the jobs that immigrants take due to harsh conditions, low wages and no benefits in a society that deliberately keeps good social safety net benefits behind a paywall for the elite, but thatâs a (somewhat) separate problem.
1
u/AGreasyPorkSandwich Monkey in Space 6h ago
Id buy that whole "its wasting our tax dollars" argument if those same people were saying we should impeach Trump for wasting/stealing/spending billions of taxpayer dollars every week
→ More replies (6)-4
u/SamuelDoctor Normal Person 8h ago edited 6h ago
There are concerns which these sorts of retorts fail to address, or dismiss as if they are illegitimate; America is pluralistic, and being a melting pot is part of its identity, but many Americans who favor more stringent immigration law are concerned with the degree to which immigrants will assimilate with the extant culture. There are legitimate views there that aren't simple bigotry or ethnocentrism or xenophobia. We ought to do more to respond to those views.
Economics are important, but they aren't the only concern.
Edit: retorts, not reports
6
u/Lvl100Centrist Big Dick Monkey 6h ago
I'm european and this sounds weird to me. You say you are a pluralistic country, a melting pot, so what exactly should they assimilate to? You are pluralistic. People can live in so many different ways. So what is this specific way of life they should not only integrate to, but assimilate in?
0
u/SamuelDoctor Normal Person 6h ago
I'd love to talk about it. Describing oneself as European, rather than by a national descriptor, is something which would seem unusual during the previous generation, or at least that's what I infer as a reader with an interest in 20th century nonfiction. The EU has changed the way Europeans think about themselves, evidently. That makes it easier to understand what we're ostensibly about in the US, I hope.
If it helps, I'm not expressing my own view in the previous comment; I'm discussing the reality that others have such a view. I would describe my own view differently.
Since you don't live in America, and lack a direct experience of what being an American is like, I wouldn't be surprised if your sense of pluralism is different from mine in some sense.
Pluralism is part of the US idea. It is our national motto which says e pluribus unum."
That is both an aspiration and a fact. America is made of people from all over the globe, and its culture is the product of centuries of synergistic cultural and ethnic communion.
Secularism and pluralism are integral aspects of what American culture is, though the extent to which either is successfully made manifest is a matter of interpretation and debate.
There are ideas which cannot be incorporated into a society like ours without precluding secularism or pluralism. There are cultures which have aspects that represent contradictions, especially with respect to these specific ideas. Democracy is another example.
Assimilation, in the sense I would consider it a worthwhile aspect of an immigration policy, is a means of attempting to ensure that whatever your national origin, cultural practices, religious views might be, you are welcome unless some part of what we've mentioned precludes you from even orthogonally aligning with the fundamental and crucial ideas which make America possible.
Most of our culture is collaborative. Pluralism, certain enlightenment ideals like secularism, and representative government by and for the people are fundamental. If you cannot support that part of the project, you cannot assimilate in the sense Americans ought to mean when they use the term.
We have no national language. We have no national religion. We have a civic identity that is contingent on certain ideas. We can't exist as America if we lose that, and that's our prerogative as a polity. I would call it an imperative derived from our identity as a nation, or rather, the idea of the nation we hope to be one day.
1
u/paranood888 Monkey in Space 5h ago
America felt mot very collaborative to me ... lots of ghettos rich ones and poor ones. You have a Chinatown, a korea town, you have gated communities... add to that the use of the car and the city organized for the car... Also, it seems to me that in the discourse, the zeitgeist of USA nowadays , its the partisanship, the individuality, the ego , the gang., the clique, the sect or identity you re pushing that seems to be what makes America... division, mockery ... Rants , trolls ... youre telling me migrants are supposed to do what none of your leaders or icons are able to do ? So you re here telling the word they eat cats and dogs, but want them to show some synergy
1
u/SamuelDoctor Normal Person 5h ago
Your feelings are real, but they're not prescriptive of the reality they are stimulated by.
America is almost unfathomably enormous and diverse. Where I live is very dissimilar from the description you wrote.
The fact that our president says some of the most reprehensible horseshit in the history of American rhetoric is salient, but it's not representative of what America is; Trump is what America's electorate chose, but the folks who voted for him mostly would agree he says a lot of stupid shit.
For reasons that are diverse, and I would argue are erroneous, they see his classlessness, his lies, his negatives as being worth whatever they think is worthwhile about his policies or leadership (even if their perception is also biased, or erroneous, or a product of ignorance).
None of that defines America, which is more than merely the dumbest thing any of its presidents has ever said. You are not merely your most regrettable choices, either.
0
u/LeKevinsRevenge Monkey in Space 6h ago
So basically we are a melting pot, but people who come must be willing to melt a little to join the mix.
1
u/SamuelDoctor Normal Person 6h ago
That's too much of a simplification, but it's not entirely contrary.
5
u/paranood888 Monkey in Space 7h ago
Its always been like that. Have you seen gangs of new York? You think Irish were seen as easy to assimilate? Italians ? Lol they still have the mob ! In France in the 60ies we had exactly the same discourse but on Italians and Spanish people ... Also, you re literally a former British colony , and you re composed of Europeans or African descendants not Navajos... do you know that in 2024 the share of foreign born in US population was the same that in 1890 ? Does it sounds to you like a huge jump ? Do you think there were too many migrants in 1890 ? Thing is, you d have to look at rates, studies, stats foreign born pop in the US graph
1
u/SamuelDoctor Normal Person 6h ago edited 6h ago
It's always been like what?
Gangs of New York is a good movie, and I actually have an interest in New York.
It used to be said that you could stand on the corner of Broadway and Houston and fire a shotgun in any direction without worrying about killing an honest man.
That's not necessarily about immigration. Immigrants had a huge impact on crime in the US, because everything about our history is a story of immigrants.
La Cosa Nostra started within Italy, as I understand it.
The idea that immigrants invented organized crime is ridiculous. That is a function of civilization, not immigration. Before there were nations, in the sense we understand, there were gangs.
The rest of what you said sounds remarkably similar to the sort of thing with which every ignoramus who proudly calls himself a neonazi justifies his animus towards others .
Basically, whatever, dude. Make the case as to why anyone should care who is foreign born without talking points that are derived from the KKK or the Silver Legion. Otherwise miss everybody with this.
1
1
1
u/AGreasyPorkSandwich Monkey in Space 6h ago
Primaries arent even part of the constitution. I think we should have them, but its not the rule.
Im more concerned about the party that promotes people who actually tear up the rules.
1
u/Captain_Pink_Pants Monkey in Space 8h ago
There was only one point that motivated all this... the decimal point. It moved right, and Rogan chased after it like a kid trying to catch the ice cream truck.
0
-2
u/gucciman333 Monkey in Space 8h ago
It was the Texas governor that bussed them to NY and New England, not the government. Agree about the border though.
3
u/JerryfromCan Monkey in Space 7h ago
The Texas Governor is âthe governmentâ
1
1
u/Finlay00 Monkey in Space 8h ago
If you think those were the only immigrants moved around the US you are wildly misinformed
Those were just the politicized stunts.
2
u/gucciman333 Monkey in Space 8h ago
/u/askgrok did the federal government bus illegal immigrants from the border to cities?
1
u/Finlay00 Monkey in Space 7h ago
Did you get an answer?
1
u/gucciman333 Monkey in Space 6h ago
Yeah it was the Texas governor not the federal government
1
u/Finlay00 Monkey in Space 6h ago
The federal government has a department dedicated to moving immigrants and refugees around the US but ok
Also DeSantis did it too
-3
u/GoRangers5 We live in strange times 8h ago
Greg Abbot was bussing migrants around the country... And yes it was for cheap labor, it saved the economy from collapsing, deal with it.
1
u/Finlay00 Monkey in Space 8h ago
Without an underclass of laborers to exploit this country collapses. Amazing left wing talking point.
1
u/GoRangers5 We live in strange times 8h ago
What you call a "talking point," I call an unfortunate reality, if you are a descendant of Western European Christians, why do you think your ancestors came to the States?
-4
u/Texmex865 Monkey in Space 8h ago
He did. Because the Feds werenât stopping them and being a border state, Texas took a giant hit. So instead of Texas having to take on all that burden, he started sending them to liberal cities, whose politicians are in favor of illegal immigration.
Edit: illegal immigration kept the economy from collapsing?!?!? đ¤Łđ¤Łđ¤Łđ¤Łđ¤Ł
6
u/hayydebb Monkey in Space 8h ago edited 8h ago
The fact your laughing so much is proof you have no idea what youâre talking about. 40-42% of our agriculture workforce is illegals, 20% of our maintenance/groundskeeping workforce, 15-20% of the hopsitality/food service and construction workforce.
America is absolutely propped up by cheap labor and if you donât see that then youâve lived a very sheltered life. Idk if it would lead to total collapse but it does affect the economy and price of goods quite a bit. Iâm not for illegal immigration by any means but good luck replacing those people with Americans with the quality of life your offering. And nothing makes a republican more angry then suggesting the plebs should make more money
-1
u/Tron_Frankenstein Monkey in Space 8h ago
Modern slavery and you're fine with it. Americans are strange creatures
3
u/GoRangers5 We live in strange times 8h ago
That's adorable if you believe America is the only nation exploiting immigrants.
-2
-1
u/ticklemeelmo696969 Monkey in Space 5h ago
Lets be honest the border issue and the political discourse of it comes from the american populace not wanting to transition from factory, trade and low skill jobs to white collar jobs.
The 70s politics pushed this idea and then failed to assimulate the workforce.
Nixon and ford were big retards.
Apart from this. As someone going through the immigration process, there needs to be reform and these dipshits whining about illegal immgrants arent doing shit to fix the root problem.
3
u/johnsonutah Monkey in Space 5h ago
There aren't enough white collar jobs lol
1
u/ticklemeelmo696969 Monkey in Space 5h ago
No. Because the fuck heads didnt put the work in to adjust the economy. So we are in this weird ass limbo. We also have a populace that a good majority dont want to work white collar jobs.
They fucked it and maybe itll balance out with ai for near future. Who knows.
4
u/johnsonutah Monkey in Space 5h ago
We have one of if not THE most advanced economies in the world. Furthermore, no matter what you adjust in the economy you need a lot of blue collar labor.Â
2
u/ticklemeelmo696969 Monkey in Space 5h ago
Im not arguing whether or not blue collar jobs are necessary nor am i arguing what they believed was right. I am saying the execute was shit.
But they believed by opening up china, the united states would outsource manufacturing and production, us workers would move more to white collar jobs and services.
Yes we arent going to have winnie the pooh building houses in us etc.Those construction y etc. jobs (blue collar) would still exist. But those are as finite as white collar jobs.
They didnt convey the message and transition the workforce direction effectively which is impart why we have people screaming "day took hour jobbsssss"
2
u/johnsonutah Monkey in Space 5h ago
I don't know what point you are making. I don't think illegal or legal immigrants have actually taken that many jobs, but they've definitely surpressed wage rates in the jobs they do gravitate towards. Anyone who works in a trade knows thatÂ
1
u/King_Moonracer003 Monkey in Space 5h ago
Lets also not ignore the fact we've been interfering in south American politics in MAJOR ways for a century, funding right wing politicians, militias, coups, and even outright assassinations and kidnapping. Once our friendly govt is in they allow us to pilfer their natural resources, take out massive imf and world bank loans, and enact brutal austerity measures when they inevitably cannot pay back the loans. Either that, or we sanction them to all hell. We created the conditions theyre trying to escape.
1
u/ticklemeelmo696969 Monkey in Space 5h ago
Yes and no. I agree most us involvement was terrible (guatemala).
But i also believe some was necessary.
1
u/King_Moonracer003 Monkey in Space 3h ago
Its never necessary. The myth of United States benevolence spreading freedom and democracy was long ago proven false. Everything is for colonialist ambitions, to open new markets, to gain access to raw materials and resources. We've intentionally and succesfully made south America a vassal state.
1
u/ticklemeelmo696969 Monkey in Space 3h ago
Ah yes. You misunderstood what i meant about necessary.
Its not about freedom and democracy. Its national security and regional control.
1
u/AverageLiberalJoe Monkey in Space 4h ago
Sir.. its racism and bigotry. Why come up with bullshit economic theories? You really think this is new? People hate immigrants in every country, culture, and region. Its not some bespoke modern American issue. It's just plain old classic bigotry.
0
0
u/AverageLiberalJoe Monkey in Space 4h ago
Here, have some slop:
how many immigrants came over during Biden
During the Biden administration (fiscal years 2021 through 2024), U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) recorded nearly 11 million nationwide migrant encounters (with totals reported around 10.8 to 11 million depending on exact monthly cutoffs).However, immigration and fact-checking organizations emphasize that "encounters" do not equal the number of people who entered and remained in the United States: ⢠Encounters vs. Individuals: Total encounters include repeat crossers (an estimated 20% to 25% of encounters involved individuals who had crossed more than once). ⢠Removals, Expulsions, and Returns: The Biden administration carried out approximately 4.4 to 4.7 million expulsions, returns, or deportations during this same four-year span. ⢠Gotaways: CBP also recorded an estimated 1.5 million to 1.7 million "gotaways"âindividuals detected by surveillance technology who evaded apprehension and entered the interior.
115
u/BenderRodriguez14 Monkey in Space 9h ago edited 8h ago
I see the pivot from it being about free speech and censorship, 'no more wars' and the economy is underway.Â