1/6 John Wick

Because in their final interaction, Santino just kept mocking him.

Could he have saved himself with charisma-checks?

I ask because John is efficient and methodical, but he didn't shoot on sight. He let Santino talk for a bit before killing him.

Hey all new to this group so apologies in advance if this topic has been discussed a million times already. But I just want to say how much I loved ballerina and Ana de armas. I loved that there were shorter but more frequent set pieces - and they were all incredible, inventive and fun. De armas does a phenomenal job at being a counterpart to John wick. I’m just sad the box office numbers were such shit - we prob won’t get a second one for that reason.

Link: https://x.com/itsjaydaddy/status/2110842954076344635

I am open to any helpful and constructive criticism.

I've heard a lot of ppl saying 4 kind of ended things how it should have ended. A bit of a downer type ending but still an ending. I think for the writers they have their work cut out for them to make a John Wick 5 and somehow make it work.

I'd love to hear all of your ideas for JW5. There are no bad ideas! I welcome it. We have a lot of die hard fans here who probably know about the character and lore just as much if not more than the Hollywood big wigs.

I think one way to make a John Wick 5 is to make parts of the movie a prequel. Deaging technology has come a long way. So to show Johns last hit before he gave it all up for his wife would be cool to show. I know Keanu is getting older so it would be wise to use a body double and not go full Irishman.

But I think it can also be part sequel as well. How John gets roped back into the mix would be very hard to do. I think creatively to make it take place in a near future where he plays an old John wick. Think gray hair on Keanu. Silver fox. I think to pass the torch to maybe a young assassin who can take over and finally kills John would be a good ending and we know how these movies loves head shots. So he'd have to be killed that way.

I've got the first 20 minutes written in my head for a JW5 theoretical movie. Making it the last job John did before he gave it up. That's cool. Then I have the look he should have when it fast forward either to present day, or a near future. 2037 or some shit. John Wick with Gray hair.

That's it. That's the post.

Spoilers for John Wick 1 through 4, Ballerina and The Continental.

In The Continental, the Adjudicator says the High Table “predates the Roman Empire.” Taking that literally puts it before 27 BCE. So who was running it back then?

The coin press storyline got me thinking about this, especially alongside the Chancellor's Cult in Ballerina.

In Chapter 2, Santino says Gianna inherited their father's seat and represents the Camorra. I don't read that as the Camorra founding the whole thing. My guess is the Table stayed around while different families joined, inherited seats or took them from someone else.

I started with Hassan-i Sabbah, then remembered the Sicarii, and ended up looking further back. Here's the timeline I was comparing the films with:

- 514 BCE: Harmodius and Aristogeiton kill Hipparchus in Athens. These are the two men known as the Tyrannicides, not an assassin order.
- 336 BCE: Pausanias of Orestis, one of Philip II's bodyguards, assassinates him. Livius
- 27 BCE: The Roman Empire begins under Augustus. The Table supposedly already exists by this point.
- 50s CE: Josephus describes the Sicarii during Felix's governorship, after the Empire has started.
- 73 or 74 CE: The Romans capture Masada. The exact year is debated.
- 1090 CE: Hassan-i Sabbah takes Alamut in Persia. The split that produces the distinct Nizari branch follows in 1094.
- 1163 to 1193 CE: Rashid al-Din Sinan leads the Syrian Nizaris. He's associated with the Crusaders' “Old Man of the Mountain.”

The Sicarii dates don't work for them being the Table's original founders if we're taking that line from the show literally. The Greek examples are earlier, but those assassinations alone don't give us an organization to connect to the Table. We also don't know whether the Table existed as far back as 514 BCE.

What keeps me looking at Greece is that Stahelski has openly talked about Greek mythology and the Iliad. He's also described Winston as Hades and explained Charon's name. But he brings up Arthurian chivalry too, so I don't believe every reference has to point back to one civilization.

Then Berrada actually says “Followers of Hassan-i” in Chapter 3 while discussing the word assassin. That made me think of the Elder and the Old Man of the Mountain. Still, he never says Hassan founded the Table or that the Elder inherited his position from him.

The Cult is where I'm less sure. The Chancellor says its system has continued for a thousand years. A thousand years? That immediately made me think of Hassan-i Sabbah and Alamut in 1090. Could the writers be drawing from that history? Maybe, but the dates alone don't prove a connection. Subtracting 1,000 from the movie's release year doesn't give us a confirmed founding date, either. I haven't found anything naming Hassan as the Cult's founder. And the real Nizaris were a religious and political community, not just a guild of hired killers.

Has anyone found an interview, commentary track or prop detail that names the Table's original founders or gives the Cult an origin beyond just its age?

Sources:
https://www.livius.org/sources/content/diodorus/the-death-of-philip/
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-roman-archaeology/article/roman-siege-system-of-masada-a-3d-computerized-analysis-of-a-conflict-landscape/32C59BE59ACD3E9A91C95F947DFD271E
https://www.iis.ac.uk/scholarly-contributions/assassin/
https://www.ebsco.com/research-starters/law/harmodius-and-aristogiton/
https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/486729

Does anyone else wish there was more of the continental series? I enjoyed young Winston Scott and also considering that John wick is supposedly 14 at the time of this happening. It would have been nice to see a glimpse of him somewhere in it to set the scene of a possible young John wick show. I also just through that the series had ended weirdly.

John lands one powerful punch, and the guy’s head practically gets knocked clean off. Just a second earlier, the killer was struggling desperately, but then John breaks his neck with a single punch, and he goes completely still, as if John had just switched him off. This has to be one of the most shocking kills ever.

When Charlie shows up later, they even give this poor bastard an extra shot. He’s just lying there on his back across the dining table, becoming one of the Twelve Dinners.

Hey guys I’m wanting to write a John wick fan fiction but because I’ve only seen the movies and the spin offs and haven’t been in the fandom very long. I was hoping that some people could help me with any fandom facts that they think might help me. Didn’t know what flair to put for this.

I’m not a professional artist obv but I think I got the vibe right 😀✏️

Caine is an awesome character but it bugged me how after killing Koji, then saying it was John's fault, then going after him in Berlin, he got all sentimental calling John his brother and helping him at the end. He kept hammering in that brother bit as if John was just supposed to forget about the Koji thing and then all would be good

Throughout the third film it's made clear anyone who helps John in any way pays the price to The Table. The Shinobi who fight him at the climax of the movie not only do not kill him right off the bat like they could have but repeatedly pause the fight to let John, literally, get back on his feet. What do you think happened to them given the fact they were pretty much the only members of Zero's team to survive?

Found this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4N8FNLogq9I where a russian guy reacts to russian in hollywood movies and found john wick in one of the examples