r/Lethbridge • u/Notjusthikes • Aug 18 '25
Events Forever Canada petition August 18 1700-1830 at CASA
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u/PatrioticPuck Aug 18 '25
What is this petition?
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u/YqlUrbanist Aug 18 '25
Basically an attempt to beat the separatists to the punch. The UCP made it easier to get referendum questions added to the ballot, but the law they passed also says that there cannot be two questions on the same topic. This petition is an attempt to get enough signatures to put a question on the ballot. Specifically the question "Do you agree that Alberta should remain in Canada?", which will prevent a separatist group from putting a question on the ballot like "Do you believe Alberta should be an independent nation free of the woke tyranny of the Ottawa elites?".
It is a gamble however. There's a chance that the separatists would fail to meet even the lowered bar, in which case this referendum is legitimizing the question when it would be better not to ask it at all. I decided to sign it, as I think the UCP would likely lower the bar even further if need be, because separatism is a great distraction for them, and I think it's good to have a resounding "fuck you" to the separatists now.
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u/Any_Command8461 Aug 19 '25 edited Aug 19 '25
I like how it quite literally asks the same question. The canada forever proposed question is "should Alberta remain in Canada". It'll basically get the same separation ball rolling if enough people put no on the ballot.
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u/Unicorn_Puppy Aug 18 '25
It’s basically a middle finger to separatists in that we want our say to forever remain part of Canada. If it were to pass the amount of signature’s needed it would be a referendum question. And if it passes there, Danielle Smith is obliged to what the will of the people have determined. This means absolutely crushing her fantasies of independence or 51st statehood.
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u/Even_Current1414 Aug 18 '25
I thought they passed a bill stating these kind of referendums would be non binding...
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u/radapple Aug 18 '25
It's to create fodder for a section of the UCP voting base to rile them up whenever they need turn out. Fuck that and fuck them.
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u/ThnkGdImNotAReditMod Aug 22 '25
UCP voting base to rile them up whenever they need
You don't seem like a UCP voter though..?
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u/radapple Aug 22 '25
I can't tell, are you implying I'm riled up? It's a tactic to get the separatist voter turnout is my point. Whether I find it dumb and a waste of my tax dollars is something else.
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Aug 18 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/countnuke Aug 22 '25
No one? Over 40% is not no one then theirs at least a 10% outlier who agrees to separate but won’t show up
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u/Hornarama Aug 18 '25
I wouldn't sign it. Why take away our ONLY leverage? Quebec used it to get the Equalization deal. Why shouldn't we use it too? No matter how many people ever vote for separation the courts will NEVER recognize it as a "clear majority". The wording of the "Clarity Act" has been left ambiguous in that regard for THAT reason. All it would mean is that Fed Govt has to "negotiate terms for separation" read give the province what it wants in order to retain them in Confederation. This would all take YEARS - AFTER a vote that I don't think is going to come out over 50% anyway - for now. Even if it loses, it can be done again in the future. The issue is never going to bed forever, but it would take damn near forever to resolve in the courts anyway - so don't lose too much sleep over it. The only way Independence is happening any sooner is through an armed uprising which only happens when too many (armed) people are too desperate and we're nowhere near that happening either.
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u/northerntrout Aug 18 '25
The "only" leverage? Give me a break. Try voting something other than Conservative for a change. Quebec gets attention because their votes are available for the best offer in every election. Apparently you are prepared to destroy the country rather than voting strategically and actually achieving political relevance. Makes me doubt your sincerity.
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u/Hornarama Aug 19 '25
ohh friend. I haven't voted for the Conservative Party in the last 3 elections. Because they aren't actually Conservatives - they're center left. I vote for values - I won't compromise mine because as soon as you do you've lost. It's pretty obvious this is the mindset of Liberal voters. They'll vote for someone who they think can win, (but does things they don't like) so they can delude themselves into thinking they have influence whilst the country collapses around them in real time.
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u/northerntrout Aug 19 '25
Fair reply. But amusing (to me at least) that you see the Conservatives as center left. Yikes. Amusing comment too that you perceive Canada as collapsing. You and I live in two very different Canadas.
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u/Hornarama Aug 19 '25
Is your life better than it was 10 years ago? Cost of living? Housing affordability? Is your living standard higher? Better employment prospects? Do you have kids? Will they be able to afford a home? We're paying nearly 45% in all forms of taxes (excluding inflation which is a hidden tax). What will be too much for you? Yeah, I'm pretty far to the right - I'll admit that. Do the Conservative talk about balancing the budget or preserving our culture and values? What are they proclaiming to conserve besides political correctness?
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u/northerntrout Aug 19 '25
Good questions. But do you intentionally exclude international economic and political realities from the equation? Is Canada's experience any different from other countries?
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u/Hornarama Aug 20 '25
There is one international economic and political reality that I factor into all the equations. The WEF and The UN. These two organizations are at the center of the experience of Canada and every other country and their citizens. Neither has any sort of public accountability yet derives policies that greatly affect us all.
Now before you label me a conspiracy theorist I challenge you to keep reading because I think I'm going to surprise you if you do.
You needn't look any further than the state of Israel. Now I admitted I am pretty far out on the right - but this might blow your hair back - I think what's occurring there is an absolute travesty of humanity. And you know who I blame. The UN. Not because they aren't doing anything about it (not sure what that is to be honest) but because they created this mess. The original plan was to have two states. And when the existing Arab states wouldn't accept the Jewish state, they just left the Palestinians homeless and with no leadership and went ahead with creating Israel. Surprise, its a disaster. That's what you get when you defer responsibility to unelected people who feel no consequences for their decisions. The WEF is no different. They meet at their retreat in DAVOS to decide the future for you and I and are only concerned with how it benefits their members. Its Corporatism (read fascism) and no one on the left seems to care. Carney is one of their biggest players - and it wouldn't surprise me if Poilievre was in it too. Thoughts?
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u/northerntrout Aug 20 '25
Many on the left feel as you do re corporatism. But as for the rest, you are mixing in a lot of disparate elements that have very tenuous connections, if any, to the point you are trying to make. It's a common problem in debates. Many people on both sides of any argument have valid points to make, but weaken or undermine their case by incorporating too many elements. They think that they are building a stronger argument, but in fact the opposite is occurring. So try again. And yes I am being pedantic, I know that. But I like a good debate, especially one with skilled advocates
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u/Hornarama Aug 20 '25
I got off in the weeds here - but to illustrate you can be right-wing and agree with the left at times - maybe for different reasons. So lets back up and simplify. Yes Corporatism is a problem - but the distinction gets lost between undue corporate influence in government and vilifying capitalism and free markets. I don't see how Canada continues as it is. IF it were up to me, I'd toss the Monarchy and re-found the country as a Republic. But its not, and far too few would support that. So, I'll settle for disrupting the status quo to get a better deal.
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u/TheBSpecialist Aug 24 '25
Canada is quite frankly , collapsing.
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u/Hornarama Aug 25 '25
Even the blind can see it. The only ones that can't are brainwashed.
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u/TheBSpecialist Aug 25 '25
Literally, I came from abroad and prices there at max were in equivalent 15 dollars , those were the "max" expensive prices you'd find for grocery products ... here I found out that steaks are around 27-25 dollars or less but still super expensive and probably more I haven't seen..
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u/Parrothead91 Aug 18 '25
I’ve only found three events on their page for Lethbridge. I hope there will be more
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u/ZJ1604 Aug 25 '25
To play devils advocate what would happen if this gets put on the ballot and the majority vote is no… do we start the separation process?
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u/aagslg Aug 30 '25
No. Not really. It has to be put to all representatives in Parliament and be agreed to by the First Nation leaders in Alberta. It isn't going to happen. Danielle Smith is rage farming in order to distract from the ethical violations in the UCP. There is no way that Pollievre would have run for a seat in Alberta if there were any realistic plans/expectations to separate. This is not the first time, or even the fourth time this topic has been used as a political contrivance.
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u/Adorable-Lettuce-111 Aug 18 '25
It’s so important that there is a 1.5 hour event planned.
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u/wndxlori Aug 18 '25
There’s a 90 day window. This the the first official event. There will be many more.
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u/twostrokes Aug 18 '25
I'm not really sure why the ridiculously short timelines or temporary nature for these signings... Why can't someone just set up a location permanently somewhere?
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u/lethbianlove Aug 18 '25
I need a guarantee that my personal data is not being scraped here. This is just a Google form?
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u/Eastern_Classic7664 Aug 18 '25
No, you have to sign on paper and it must be witnessed by an official canvasser.
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u/unapologeticopinions Aug 18 '25
I wish separatists had answers to the questions that matter. Right now, it’s speculation and patriotism forming opinions instead of having two legitimate options.
I get it. Leaving Canada sounds like a raw deal to many of us. But on the flip side, how often do we actually see meaningful concessions from Ottawa? Do our federal votes ever feel like they matter? Western Canada has been begging for voter reformation since 2013, and yet… Crickets. All beneficial programs start out east, and who knows if/when they’ll ever make their way out west. Not to mention disastrous/controversial policy from Ottawa, like $340million to air drop aid on Gaza (you can see those people getting crushed under the care packages) and their immigration policy. Alberta wants to build, but we’re choked by geography and the Feds don’t want to push projects (this may be changing). The federal government does hamstring us, the separatists do have reason to be upset.
If the separatists can gain enough traction to get Ottawas attention, Alberta might actually get a couple concessions. This would diminish Smiths credibility as the protector of Alberta, while rewarding Albertans. I’m not pro separatist, I’m just not sure if taking away leverage from the only movement that opposes Ottawa is a good choice at this particular moment 🤷♂️
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u/Toast- Aug 18 '25
The thing is, separation is possibly the worst solution to those problems.
If our votes don't feel like they matter, maybe we shouldn't vote Cons on auto pilot. Voter reformation isn't unique to the west, it's just not a priority for the leading parties. Beneficial programs are often kneecapped by our provincial government being idiots about it. Alberta wants to build, but only if it's oil and gas.
These are all real problems. I just struggle to see how anyone can think separation solves any of these.
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u/countnuke Aug 22 '25
It is the only solution that is viable , father fact is everything else has been tired for the better part of a century
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u/Toast- Aug 22 '25
TIL Alberta has tried everything. Was Alberta in a good position through any of its history in your opinion? Surely if we've tried everything, that includes voting for change with our elected representatives and not giving them all a free pass because of the color on their sign. Oh wait...
Since voting in the same party on repeat isn't changing things, maybe we should sever our nation and give them full control of the country of Alberta! That's got to be the only viable solution! Sure, we lose any benefit of being part of Canada, and we would be a landlocked nation with less bargaining power than ever amongst our bordering countries, but it will solve everything!
Separation is like burning down the school because you didn't know how to do a question on your math homework. It sidesteps one problem at the expense of creating innumerable others.
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u/countnuke Sep 05 '25
You are a complete fool we need less liberals as they have caused most of the nations problems
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u/unapologeticopinions Aug 18 '25
It’s the worst solution, but they’re currently the loudest opposition to the federal government that we’ve seen in a while.
Alberta voting cons, libs or NDP doesn’t really affect the federal election, those are almost always decided in Eastern Canada. The west are treated like nagging mosquitoes more than anything. The reason why voter reforms aren’t a priority is because political parties don’t benefit from them. This is why the Cons, libs and NDP all decided there “was no reason for reforms” back in 2016.
I don’t think separation would solve any Alberta’s issues. I highly suspect that everything would get much, much worse. But there’s something to be said about a loud movement getting the Feds attention. Our youth are more and more anti-establishment and the Feds need to get ahead of the trend before resentment grows.
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u/YqlUrbanist Aug 18 '25
"those are almost always decided in Eastern Canada"
No they aren't. BC, AB, SK, and MB have 108 seats out of 343, more than enough to swing almost any election.
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u/YqlUrbanist Aug 18 '25
What do you mean by "voter reformation"? Alberta's representation is in line with the rest of the country - if I recall correctly, Ontario is getting a worse deal than we are in terms of the average number of people per riding. If you mean moving away from First Past the Post, Albertan's certainly aren't asking for that - the conservatives have never supported it, and we've always voted for them.
As to hamstringing us - would it surprise you to know that Alberta's oil production is at an all time high? The federal government even moved heaven and earth to get a new pipeline built. It's unclear to me what concessions Albertan's think we should get from Ottawa.
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u/unapologeticopinions Aug 18 '25
I think many Albertans would like a bigger say in federal policies given the money they earn for the country, regardless of how that actually plays out in the polls. Like you said, we vote primarily conservative, so we’ve been under-represented for over 10 years now, and those cracks are starting to show. I don’t have a solution for reforms, I’ll be the first to admit I’m way too stupid to figure that out. Our current system allows for each branch of government to blame each other as opposed to working together to solve issues. As it stands, Smith and the Cons can blame everything on the Liberals, because a typical constituent doesn’t understand the roles of each branch of government.
From what I can tell, Separatists are upset with the federal overreach into social policy, and the equalization payments. Those are valid concerns. Hypothetically, if we can leverage the movement to gain concessions from Ottawa, who take more than they give to us, then that’s a net positive for Alberta.
As for oil, I know we’re pumping more oil, and have been. It’s the dude with the “F*** TRUDEAU” sticker who watches grocery prices rise 16% a year who isn’t aware. And while his concerns may come from a place of ignorance, they’re not without merit. Cost of Living crisis is getting worse, and the common denominator is the Liberal government.
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Aug 18 '25
"Albertans would like a bigger say in federal policies given the money they earn for the country"
How would you like that to work? Do you think that votes should be able to be purchased? Or just based on net worth? Do you get an extra vote every hundred thousand you have, kind of thing?
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u/YqlUrbanist Aug 18 '25 edited Aug 18 '25
Like you said, we vote primarily conservative, so we’ve been under-represented for over 10 years now.
That's definitely not how that works. You're not "underrepresented" because the party you vote for lost. We send 34 (now 37) people to Ottawa, they vote on our behalf. In the case of a minority government, they have the option to support the government in exchange for concessions. If anything we've been shown more favor by the liberals than the previous conservatives - the TMX pipeline is hard to view as anything besides a massive gift to Alberta from the rest of the country. What you're suggesting here is an end to representative democracy, not some minor concessions.
It's fair enough that you don't have solutions and I appreciate you having the humility to say so, but nobody else does either, because the problems are not real. Equalization is done according to a system that was put in place and reaffirmed over decades, including both liberal and conservative rule - our representatives from Alberta supported that system. Would you like to know why? Because it's a good system. It's the one that helped Alberta before we became an oil powerhouse, and the one that will keep us from descending into poverty when/if that ends.
You keep saying the separatists concerns have merit. You're wrong. The separatists have big feelings about things they don't understand, that's all.
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u/LopsidedIce4224 Aug 18 '25
This is dumb and short sited. Applying pressure to feds and other provinces in this manner will enable the much needed change to fair and equal representation.
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u/YqlUrbanist Aug 18 '25
In what way is Alberta not equally represented?
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u/LopsidedIce4224 Aug 18 '25
If ur an Alberta you would know the answer. Equal representation in parliament based on population.
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u/YqlUrbanist Aug 18 '25
Well I'm an Albertan so I knew the answer you'd likely give. You're wrong though, since we already have that, at least within a seat or two.
Alberta has 11.66% of the population and 10.88% of the seats.
Ontario has 38.90% of the population and 35.88% of the seats.
BC has 13.68% of the population and 12.65% of the seats.
Quebec has 22.57% of the population and 22.94% of the seats.So it's true that Quebec is doing slightly better, but we're talking a seat or two, and Ontario has it far worse than us. So let's say Alberta and BC got 1 more seat, and Ontario got 3 more, would you be happy with that? All your problems would be fixed?
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u/countnuke Aug 22 '25
The issue is that Ottawa has to much control over things they should like half of canada
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u/YqlUrbanist Aug 22 '25
What does that mean? "Ottawa" is the people we elect and send there. Alberta has about as much control as our population warrants.
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u/LopsidedIce4224 Aug 26 '25
What are all the provinces numbers?
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u/YqlUrbanist Aug 26 '25
I linked the full data set in the second sentence.
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u/LopsidedIce4224 Aug 26 '25
Thanks. So Alberta will gain 8.8% more representation with those 3 extra seats. Thats what I was referring to although I thought it would be more than that. That is enough to change an election outcome. However that was not my initial point.
I digress. I still hate how the east controls the west. Quebec says no to pipelines but acquires billions in transfer payment from Alberta. In my opinion oil energy should be a matter of national security.1
u/YqlUrbanist Aug 26 '25
Oil is a matter of national security, as is climate change. Quebec has no legal right to block pipelines but given that we are still a democracy, our elected leaders consider there views, along with the rest of the country.
Albertan's need to drop the victim mentality. We're the richest province with the lowest taxes and oil production has been growing steadily for decades including under Trudeau.
Any attempt to rebalance the seat count between provinces is going to give Ontario significantly more seats and result in a shift of power east, not west.
If I were an Alberta first type, I'd be keeping real quiet and hoping the rest of the country doesn't wake up to how good we've got it just because most of the oil happened to be in our province. They might get crazy ideas like wanting it to be Canada's oil instead of Alberta's.
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u/smilewarrior83 Aug 18 '25
If you dont like it move to Ontario losers
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u/Adorable-Lettuce-111 Aug 18 '25
I don’t need to move to Ontario. I’m happy being a Canadian right here where I have always been Canadian. It’s the separatist traitors who need to move somewhere where they can have a homogenous white society, double paycheques with no taxes and fee for service healthcare.
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u/Neat_Inflation8638 Aug 18 '25
Are they live streaming the speakers?
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u/wndxlori Aug 18 '25
What speakers? They are collecting signatures.
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u/Neat_Inflation8638 Aug 18 '25
Sorry was referring to the town hall. Nenshi, Miyashiro and Ganley have a speech at 630 about this at CASA, would like to hear what they have to say but not able to attend.
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Aug 18 '25
Why do you guys want to say if all the federal government new bills and policy’s just kick Alberta’s in the nuts, limits our financial independence.
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u/Jaymz198646 Aug 18 '25
Never signing this!!! ALBERTA IS DONE, WE ARE OUT. The rest of Canada's free ride is OVER.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Fox2163 Aug 18 '25
What a baby
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u/Jaymz198646 Aug 18 '25
You must be unemployed and living off the taxes from my pay cheque
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u/JBABSTER Aug 19 '25
You realize that for someone to collect employment insurance they have to have payed into it for enough hours to be eligible right? At which point they're living off the resources they payed into at a lower rate than they actually contributed. You will literally never make a profit being unemployed.
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u/Jaymz198646 Aug 19 '25
Welfare 🤦🏼♂️
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u/JBABSTER Aug 19 '25
Do you mean income support? Because if so, no one is living a good life off that program. Do you know how little that pays?
Even beyond that, I think that we as a society have an obligation to help support our most vulnerable through programs like that.
And I'd love to know what makes you think someone is a welfare queen just because they disagree with you.
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u/Jaymz198646 Aug 19 '25
No, not "income support" call it what it is, Welfare, or a government funded living allowance. I disagree with anyone who believes in a Liberal government and if they actually beleive the Liberals are good for Canada just because they can be bought out with "free" money, (paid for by hard working tax payers) to turn around blind eye to what they are doing to this country.
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u/JBABSTER Aug 19 '25
I'd love to hear your thoughts on how defunding public services is in anyone's best interest. I dont think anyone is advocating for welfare queens and I think you'll find that proponents of services like this have the strongest opinions about people that abuse the system. At the same time, if 1 person abusing a system means that 10 people that need a service get access, that's something i see as a necessary evil. I'd still like there to be better oversight to make it harder to abuse, but not so much that people in need are refused access.
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u/thegreenfaeries Aug 18 '25
Already signed! Lets get thousands of Lethbridge names on the petition!