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u/TalRaMav 15d ago
Mega cope. Magneto is my favorite mutant but early days he was not a hero. He was was on a path to murder millions of innocent people, hence why he has changed so much. Credit to Claremont for adding the nuance but Magneto is definitely not worthy.
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u/Shrikeangel 15d ago
It's been a long, long time since those early days.
While I am a big, the hammer doesn't actually have a good moral compass - I do doubt it sticks to what was forty years ago, vs contemporary.
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u/Comrade_Cosmo 15d ago
It’s literally a sapient being and has a moral compass independent of Odin.
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u/Burt_McCheeks 15d ago
You’re saying there’s a statute of limitations on how far back the magic hammer goes in judging one’s actions as worthy or unworthy?
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u/Shrikeangel 15d ago
I am saying redemption is part of life, and is very much a part of narrative storytelling.
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u/Burt_McCheeks 15d ago
Sure that makes sense. That said, it’s kind of a tough sell that the same enchanted hammer that judged Thor unworthy for being a douchebag wouldn’t judge Magneto for the litany of crimes he committed less than a decade ago in-universe. Thor was full of himself and didn’t get a green light, Magneto used an EMP and killed thousands of hospitalized people on life support in recent memory.
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u/Shrikeangel 15d ago
The hammer is vaguely norse themed - do you think harming a group considered your mortal enemies is a bad thing?
Keep in mind a majority of viking activity was raiding and murdering Christian monks.
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u/Burt_McCheeks 15d ago
I mean in this case you’re talking about sick people, the infirm, and children, among others.
I don’t know how a Viking would feel about that, but you can probably guess how Thor would feel about it, and clearly Thor’s actions and behaviors are a better indicator of the hammer’s moral barometer, as Thor is the one wielding it, not an 8th century Scandinavian.
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u/Shrikeangel 15d ago
Using Thor as a system just gets into the weeds - especially with all the different ways Thor has been handled over the years.
It's bumps into the whole people only die in dc because Superman could have saved them, but for whatever reason didn't because he is and isn't that fast and all knowing, ect.
I admit I am not a big thor head, but a lot of people rant about rune King Thor and this other thor and so on being top of power scaling and whatever.
Ultimately my own stance is proper continuity Mags from the 90s on shouldn't really have an issue picking up the hammer. Morality is not cut and dry.
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u/Burt_McCheeks 15d ago
I mean Thor’s a Marvel superhero, he’s never been handled in a way that would suggest he’s cool with baby murder, and Magneto was pretty recently, so it’s kind of cut and dry. That said, i think we can both agree this is a silly argument between nerds about whether a fictional mutant bad guy could lift a magic hammer, so ultimately we’re not aiming for any kind of resolution here lol agree to disagree, happy reading!
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u/Dom5p35 15d ago
X-men movie came out a few years ago with Magneto going ape shit with his powers multiple times. This isn't a forty years ago kinda thing.
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u/Burt_McCheeks 15d ago
It’s also worth noting that the sliding marvel timescale is around 10-15 years. That means Magneto was legitimately a mustache twirling, destroy-all-humans supervillain as recently as the Obama presidency.
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u/BlueHero45 15d ago
Even as a hero I feel Magneto does it out of respect and obligation to his fellow mutant friends and allies. Like he still very much harbors a lot of hate for humans that he simply can't let go of but holds back for Xavier or Cyclops sake.
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u/Shrikeangel 15d ago
Could be an amount of projection on my end, reading a character the way I want - Mags often has issues trusting him mans because of trauma and they keep literally building killer robots and shit.
Nevermind the number of times writers want to make him a mustache twirling antagonist again. I vaguely recall some nonsense about them wanting Xorn to have been Magneto years back.
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u/BlueHero45 15d ago
It was magneto pretending to be xorn to infiltrate the x-school before attacking New York. But that story was so hated and considered so out of character for Magneto they retconed it to be Xorn pretending to be magneto pretending to be Xorn. So that way it was Xorn who attacked New York.
What nobody expected was that before he had his villain turn people actually really liked Xorn and he was getting pretty popular. So they interduced Xorn's brother who is exactly like Xorn but never went evil.
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u/CDubWill 14d ago
When Xorn did what he did in New York, I knew then and there they would retcon it. My reasoning was that what “Magneto” had done made him totally beyond redemption and they would never be able to sue the character again, so they had to retcon it into being someone other than Magneto.
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u/Sapowski_Casts_Quen 15d ago
It's clear this guy never read a Thor comic in his life and just wants to glaze Magneto. Being worthy is more complicated than he makes it out to be (when written well)
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u/Shrikeangel 15d ago
And sometimes being worthy is stupid - I example Nick Fury apparently being able to gaslight Thor into not being worthy.
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u/Promiatey 15d ago
Eh, it's more like Marvel editorial tried to project Gorr's beliefs as some sort of universal truth via Watcher-Fury's cosmic knowledge or whatever. Because not only Thor became unworthy, Odin couldn't lift the hammer he enchanted himself for some reason because apparently "all gods are assholes trust me bro".
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u/Shrikeangel 15d ago
Hence the comment about it being stupid.
It's kind of always been an imperfect narrative aspect.
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u/Edwaaard66 15d ago
Magneto is not a great guy all the time i doubt he would claim to be aswell. He also works way better as a sympathetic villain.
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u/dumuz1 15d ago
I mean, his whole deal these days is recognizing that his old approach was wrong, and the true struggle is between oppressor and oppressed in all their forms
He'd be the first to admit he wasn't worthy back when, and probably shouldn't be now, even with his more enlightened position.
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u/Overall-Yellow-2938 15d ago
Holocaust survivor then himself decklaring mutants the superior race and then pretty ok with killing of or at least subjugating the "lesser races" ... Yeah you would think the problem ist pretty obvious.
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u/glitterlikesound 15d ago
Literally came here to say something similar. This has far more to do with him not being worthy than Mjolnir being made with Uru.
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u/MatthewBlack6 15d ago
So now Odin and Mjolnir are anti-Semitic too.
I'm sure they'll send someone around to add them to the list
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u/Oppai-Of-Foom 15d ago
The be worthy you have to be worthy of being king, kingly virtue is essential for lifting it.
Magneto has proven time and again to be a shit option for king
Magneto is about as unworthy as somebody comes
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u/Rough_Improvement_44 15d ago edited 15d ago
Magneto is probably my favorite character in marvel
With that said he is definitely not worthy of lifting Mjolnir. The actions he took, especially during his earlier appearances negate virtue. He’s a complicated character for a reason. His character is not in the same tier of hero as others deemed worthy. Some might even take issue with him being a hero, which fair enough.
Using his background as a holocaust survivor, really doesn’t negate the actions he’s taken or automatically makes him worthy of anything. I think that’s at best a pretty ridiculous take
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u/Short-Estimate2874 15d ago
Magneto is far from worthy, and to attribute it to him being a holocaust survivor is a Strawman Fallacy.
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u/sterling149 15d ago
“Holocaust Survivor fighting for his people.”
Sure, but Thor, Vision, and Cap (at least the versions who were considered worthy) never tried to nuke an entire nation of innocent people. Magneto’s methods often blur moral lines. I don’t think Vison, Cap, or Thor would consider ripping out their enemies skeletons either. While Magneto’s goals are noble, he is incredibly flawed. Mjolnir should only be lifted by the pure of heart, and that should be a very short list.
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u/Phobia562 15d ago
Depends which version of Magneto and what the circumstances are of him wanting to wield Mjolnir.
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u/Such_Cup_6996 15d ago
Henry Kissinger was a survivor but I dont think he'd be considered worthy by Odin
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u/dreamape1978 15d ago
As I recall in the MCU Odin strips Thor of his powers because Thor was selfish, greedy and cruel plus he was cast out of Asgard.
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u/Earthtopian 15d ago
I mean I guess you could see it that way if you wanted something to be mad about.
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u/Bubbl3gum_N1nja 15d ago
Wait what? In Thor comics (616) the enchantment was "Whosoever holds this Hammer, if he be worthy shall possess the powers of Thor." And later it was changed to be "if they be worthy". but the Whoever is worthy thing has always been there
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u/TonyDellimeat 15d ago
So im not too familiar with every comic. Did that one publish after MCUs movie?
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u/Bubbl3gum_N1nja 15d ago
No that stuff has always been a part of Thor lore in the mainline comic.
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u/WistfulWannabe 15d ago
Despite his past and the injustices he has faced, I would hardly call Magneto a paragon of virtue and worthiness.
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u/mr_owl_mark 15d ago
Magneto can bend every metal on the planet, but can he see why kids love cinnamon toast crunch???
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u/Laughably-Fallible_1 15d ago
I feel its more psychological, if you think yourself pure and worthy you get the hammer.
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u/FafnirSnap_9428 15d ago
Isn't this objectively false? I'm pretty sure Magneto has lifted Thor's hammer in the comics
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u/Comrade_Cosmo 15d ago
Ultimate version only from what I recall.
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u/sleepneeded127 15d ago
He has used his powers to do it in main universe too. He can lift the hammer he cannot wield it thus cannot gain the powers of Thor.
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u/No_Dimension_5509 15d ago
Does not matter your reasoning, attempting a genocide yourself and killing millions of people in cold blood makes you unworthy
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u/BandanaWaddleDee0 15d ago
"Holocaust survivor fighting for his people"
My brother in christ his main enemies are American super-powered children born between 1955-2012 and his plan to "fight for his people" is literally to do the Holocaust all over again on non-mutants
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u/blink000b 15d ago
Magneto isn't worthy of Mjolnir in the same way Hal Jordan loses the right to his Green Lantern ring when he becomes Parallax. He would use Mjolnir for personal gain. Magneto wouldn't use the hammer to help people; he would use it to tip the balance of power between humans and mutants toward the side he thinks is best, usually with himself as the leader of the world.
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u/Someoneoverthere42 15d ago
Or maybe it’s because of all the murder and global terrorism Magneto committed? Just saying, might be a reason.
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u/Rob_Thorsman 15d ago
Like Thor and Cap haven't murdered a shitload of people.
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u/Someoneoverthere42 15d ago
Slight difference in context between "soldiers in war" and "genocidal lunatic."
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u/No-Department1194 15d ago
Ummmm. Look, I get the backstory and many people might react similarly. But that isn’t a carte blanche excuse.
He has sometimes lifted it with raw power, but I think in general he can’t.
While I won’t say he’s TOTALLY wrong, he’s also definitely not 100% right either.
Nuance
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u/Morchades 15d ago
So I think MOST superheroes actually SHOULD be able to lift Mjolnir since they tend to be extraordinary people, but Magneto has a lot of blood on his hands--including his own son's--and while I adore him for the steady improvement he's been making he backslid quite a bit in Krakoa and as much as he's learned I'd say he has a LONG way to go still.
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u/Lanky-Discipline-541 15d ago
The post screenshotted here is written by AI btw. It’s completely brainlessly made and probably not worth arguing over
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u/Thatoneguy111700 15d ago
It'd be funny if the real reason Mags couldn't lift Mjolnir was because it isn't a magnetic metal, discounting the worthiness-stuff.
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u/blue23454 15d ago
Reducing Magneto to “holocaust survivor fighting for his people” is wildly disingenuous. It’s a very transparent attempt to win the argument by virtue signaling.
The reality is, and the conversation yall aren’t ready for, is that Magneto, just looking at 616 stories, has probably killed more innocent people than Hitler. If anything, turning a Holocaust survivor into the figurehead of a self proclaimed genetically superior race is the most disrespectful origin story in Marvel.
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u/Arria_Galtheos 15d ago
Because Odin decided a
Holocaust survivorgenocidal, anti-human supremacist is unworthy.
Sounds about right.
Magneto is awesome, but let's not forget what he is, yeah?
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u/SuperDuperOrk 15d ago
He isn't doing that. Hes a victim turned into a villain doing what people in the past do to him. His reasoning has blacked his heart and in no way is he worthy.
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u/Scorkami 15d ago
The reason why magneto cant wield mjolnir is because he sees one masked human attack a mutant and goes "guess ill genocide his entire species"
"Magneto was right" can be argued all day long but at the end of the day he is generalizing an entire chunk of planet earth to deserve certain things or behave a certain way
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u/RuneKnight3 15d ago
Let's see.
Thor can't use the hammer if he is an arrogant, self interested, braggart who flexes on people and fails to recognize that his strength must serve the innocent no matter who they are or where they are because they are innocent and he has strength.
Magneto is a murderous hateful would-be despot who clothes himself in the outrage of his murdered people to disguise his abject disgust for those he thinks of as 'lesser' and his smug sense of superiority. Given the choice between saving a mutant, saving a normal, and saving both even when he has the nigh infinite power to do so he would save the mutant and kick the normal into the fire.
No, I can't imagine why the Hammer refuses him.
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u/OriginalHeron3576 15d ago
Dang he came in HOT! Magneto may be right. But the majority of his actions are wrong.
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u/Captain_Birch 14d ago
Because im not sure Odin considers a bigoted hypocrite who considers himself "the master race" worthy
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u/amglasgow 14d ago
Because he's willing to kill non-mutants indiscriminately to achieve his goals, obviously.
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u/LeninOfGallifrey 14d ago
Magneto has a lot more self loathing than Thor does. His unworthiness likely stems from that rather than any lack of remorse.
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u/Liamisbetterthanuall 13d ago
1: In the Ultimate universe Magneto HAS lifted Mjolnir by using his power to lift its uru metal.
2: He's not worthy because he regularly commits crimes against humanity. Simple as that.
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u/Professional-Tank848 15d ago
As much as I love Magneto, he isn't someone I would associate with Mjolnir-worthy virtues.
Strawmanning this to the Holocaust is gross.