Debunking the Fallacious claim that Zellner outright lied about the content of her own video recreation (exhibit J) in order to make it seem like Steven was inside his trailer for longer than he was after Teresa left the ASY

[u/AveryPoliceReports]

Zellner did not lie about her own exhibit. Claims from her Motion for Reconsideration (PG 44) are consistent with the attached video exhibit

 

• In October 2017, Kathleen Zellner officially named Bobby Dassey as a Denny suspect in Teresa's murder. Zellner argued Steven was telling the truth when he said Teresa left the ASY alive only for Bobby to leave the ASY shortly after Teresa, "at the same time almost." Bobby admitted to leaving the property shortly after Teresa arrived on Halloween - Teresa's blood evidence in the back of her RAV combined with the lack of her blood on the ASY itself suggests Teresa was subjected to a violent attack outside behind her RAV after leaving the ASY - Bobby could be linked to off property sightings of the RAV near his Halloween hunting spot, had scratches on his back suggesting a violent encounter with Teresa, and could be linked to violent and illegal motive evidence revealing searches for CSAM and imagery depicting extreme violence against women.

 

• Zellner included a recreation video (Exhibit J) in the Motion for Reconsideration, presenting the defense scenario of Teresa's arrival and departure from the ASY property. A copy of the exhibit video is available on YouTube and depicts "Teresa" arriving at the Northwest corner of the ASY (near Barb and Steven's residence) around the 01:00 timestamp. Teresa then exits her RAV and photographs Barb's van while "Steven" exits his trailer to pay her and get the bill of sale and Auto Trader magazine. Per this defense recreation, "Teresa" then leaves the property around 02:15, and "Steven" enters his trailer around 02:33 to put the bill of sale and AT magazine inside. The video then shows "Bobby's" POV, depicting him (around 02:49) leaving his trailer, roughly 15 seconds after Steven entered his own, with Bobby taking off in his Blazer and following Teresa off the property.

 

• Per the Motion for Reconsideration (PG 44) Zellner claimed "Mr. Avery exited his trailer after 50 seconds" after going inside to deposit the bill of sale around 02:33, coming back out of his trailer around 03:23 and then walking towards Barb's trailer and noticing (around 03:35) that Bobby's vehicle was now gone, and that Teresa was turning left off Avery Rd onto the 147. As we know, Bobby admitted to leaving the property when Steven said he did, but contradicted Steven's claim that Teresa left the ASY before him. Bobby said Teresa was last seen walking away from her RAV towards Steven's trailer, which the state accepted as evidence that Teresa was inside Steven's trailer at the very moment Steven claimed to have seen Teresa and her RAV leave the ASY. But again, Teresa's blood evidence suggests she was initially attacked outside behind her RAV, not inside Steven's trailer.

 

Either (1) Zellner can count better than some of her harshest critics; (2) critics mistook Bobby for Steven in a POV video; or (3) critics are knowingly spreading false information to claim Zellner lied

 

• Some of Zellner's most recent and consistent critics have incorrectly concluded she was lying about her own video recreation (when she said it showed Steven was in his trailer for 50 seconds) and have made repeated posts on this issue. I guess the idea is that a successful appellate attorney with decades of experience exonerating her clients was simultaneously ruthless enough to fabricate an alibi for Steven while also being careless enough to introduce fabricated evidence that contradicted her fabricated alibi. Her critics will say something to the effect of: "In her filing Zellner said Steven was in his trailer for roughly 50 seconds, but in the exhibit video you can count 14-15 seconds after Steven enters his trailer and see Steven is exiting the door of his trailer heading toward Barb's and Bobby's house." A bombshell revelation, apparently.

 

• In reality, Zellner didn't lie or misstate anything re her own video exhibit, and the claim she did comes from critics who mistook Bobby's POV for Steven's POV in the recreation video. Per exhibit J (linked above) around 15 seconds after "Steven" enters his trailer (at 02:33) the video cuts to and shows "Bobby" exiting his trailer at (02:49). This is made clear via a "Bobby Dassey POV" plastered across the screen or should have been clear LOL

 

• This single POV misunderstanding (that Steven exited his trailer after 14 seconds inside rather than 50) explains the entire fallacious argument from Zellner's critics that she lied about her own recreation video. And when the error was pointed out, the response was not correction but repetition. The sub is getting inundated with false information about Zellner lying because admitting a mistake was apparently worse than repeating it over and over.

 

In Summary, Zellner's critics mistook or misrepresented Bobby Dassey's POV for Steven Avery's in the exhibit J recreation video, and when corrected with facts chose to keep repeating a lie rather than admit their error

 

• Zellner's critics viewed Exhibit J and mistook Bobby leaving Barb's trailer at 2:49 as Steven leaving his own. That's wrong. Exhibit J clearly shows "Bobby" exiting his own trailer at the time Zellner's critics claim Steven exits his trailer. But when corrected with these facts, Zellner's critics are too embarrassed or shameless to admit they are wrong, and instead decide to inundate the sub repeating the same lie as if it's conclusive evidence of Steven's guilt and Zellner's knowledge of it. Basically the intellectual equivalent of covering your ears and screaming to avoid admitting you are wrong.

 

• An untrue statement can be made in good faith. A knowing lie or misrepresentation requires knowledge of falsity. When critics are shown the falsity of their argument but continue to assert the claim as true, it's no longer a mistake, but a knowing misrepresentation. An attempt to repeatedly spread false information in support of the false and illogical idea that Zellner lied about her own attached video exhibit. Repeatedly spreading easily disprovable outright false information doesn’t exactly make Zellner's critics look persuasive. It makes them look deeply unserious and incredible, unable to attack her arguments with any actual facts or substance. So they create their own. This is a classic refusal to admit error dressed up as persistence. An attempt to have repetition substitute for substance.

 

• The relevant and substantive fact is the attached exhibit J video recreation is consistent with what Zellner's accompanying motion says, not with what Zellner's critcs say. Per Exhibit J to the Motion to Reconsider, Steven is inside his trailer for about 50 seconds, not 14. It's BOBBY who leaves his trailer about 14 seconds after Steven enters his own. But instead of acknowledging this obvious error (mistaking Bobby leaving his trailer for Steven leaving his own) Zellner's critics just keep chanting “blah blah blah 14 seconds not 50 seconds” as if repeating a disproven claim somehow strengthens it. That's wrong. And when you have the knowledge that Bobby is the one who exited his trailer roughly 14 seconds after Steven entered his trailer in the video recreation, but keep claiming it was Steven who is shown exiting his trailer after only 14 seconds, you are repeated lying. And the sub is being inundated with this lie because, surprise, Zellner's critics would rather repeat the lie that Zellner lied than simply concede having made an error about her filings.

[u/CJB2005]

Excellent fact based post! Thank you.

[u/AveryPoliceReports → u/CJB2005]

No worries! Hard to avoid the issue given the recent slew of posts on it, and this is such a clear example of how guilter talking points are assembled by misreading the record or lying about it. In fact, this particular example of the record being misstated is so brazen that even some of the most committed guilters have floated the theory that the "14-second argument" flooding the sub has been fabricated in direct contradiction of the video reenactment in order to make guilter reasoning look broken. I should note that hasn't stopped any guilters from quietly correcting the "14 second argument" by clarifying Zellner didn't lie about the recreation. They are apparently willing to let the sub be inundated with the accusation that Zellner lied about the recreation even knowing the evidence flatly contradicts that claim. Who could have seen that coming...

[u/No_Solution_7940 → u/AveryPoliceReports]

And none of them can ever debunk the fact that not one single thing shows that Theresa was in the house or garage. Not a fingerprint. Not a drop of blood. Nothing.

[u/AveryPoliceReports → u/No_Solution_7940]

Not a drop of blood

Yes, Teresa's blood was confined to the back of her RAV, with none of her blood EVER found in Steven's trailer, garage, or anywhere on the ASY itself. That indicates the crime occurred off the ASY after Teresa left it, which is consistent with evidence suggesting Teresa was attacked outside behind her RAV, only for her RAV and bones to be returned to the ASY property days later to stage a crime scene. The State's fallback is the bullet with Teresa's DNA, found months after the fact and presented as evidence of Teresa's location and manner of death. But again, the bullet was uncorroborated by any blood or DNA evidence in the garage itself. Kratz felt the need to lie about his own expert's luminol testimony to fabricate support for his claim that a bleach cleaning occurred in the garage to remove all the murder blood, which suggests he knew the bullet was not as convincing as it was made out to be. IMO the bullet looks less like a genuine murder discovery and more like an attempt to manufacture support for an obviously coerced confession and fabricated on property indoor murder narrative.

[u/ThorsClawHammer → u/AveryPoliceReports]

Teresa's blood was confined to the back of her RAV,

Yet when (at their own prompting even) interrogators gave that option to Brendan as a possible location she was shot, and Brendan chose it, they immediately called him a liar leaving the garage floor which they also suggested as the only other answer they would accept.

Brendan (finally) agreed, then they found the bullet and claimed Brendan led them to it. Unreal.

Kratz felt the need to lie about his own expert's luminol testimony

Fallon was forced to do the same at Brendan's trial in closing in order to support their bleach narrative.

[u/CJB2005 → u/ThorsClawHammer]

This pisses me off so much. That kid was railroaded.😡

[u/AveryPoliceReports → u/ThorsClawHammer]

Yet when (at their own prompting even) interrogators gave that option to Brendan as a possible location she was shot, and Brendan chose it, they immediately called him a liar leaving the garage floor which they also suggested as the only other answer they would accept.

Why were they so certain the shooting happened in the garage when nothing at the time suggested it did? No blood. No DNA. There was no basis, forensic or otherwise, for preferring an indoor crime over an outdoor one. In fact, the RAV blood arguably points to an outdoor attack. But I suspect they didn't like the outdoor scenario because a jury would expect witnesses if Steven killed her outside on his family's property. An indoor killing explains the absence of witnesses and makes the scene his. So they picked indoors, told Brendan a shooting occurred, and when he began repeating that, only let him place the shooting in the garage. Then they "found" a bullet inside the garage with no corresponding blood in the garage or on the alleged murder weapon, and wood but not bone embedded in the lead of the bullet. The bullet was so obviously planted.

[u/ThorsClawHammer → u/AveryPoliceReports]

nothing at the time suggested it did? No blood. No DNA

Good question. Either they were psychic to be so certain they would call Brendan a liar when he disagreed, or there's something weird going on. They had casings, but being the RAV was in the garage at that time, those would support the victim being shot there as well. And of course, it's the only place her blood was ever found.

a jury would expect witnesses if Steven killed her outside

If they stuck with outside, that also means they would have needed to find the bullet outside under snow covered ground.

only let him place the shooting in the garage

And not just in it, but made clear he needed to say the victim was on the floor specifically.

[u/Apostle-Dunghill]

Keep up the excellent work !

[u/Disastrous_Trust_152]

Zellner has watched too many Perry Mason episodes. She is trying to blame innocent people for what Steve Avery has done.

[u/TRooperVIIX]

"Mr. Avery exited his trailer after 50 seconds" after going inside to deposit the bill of sale around 02:33, coming back out of his trailer around 03:23 and then walking towards Barb's trailer and noticing (around 03:35) that Bobby's vehicle was now gone, and that Teresa was turning left off Avery Rd onto the 147. As we know, Bobby admitted to leaving the property when Steven said he did"

How dose Steven see Teresa's car at he end of the road but not Bobby's car following? And the video shows Teresa leaving right away driving off the property at 2:33 so by 3:35 you would expect to have missed seeing her at the end of the road?

To me Stevens Timeline has to many holes.

[u/AveryPoliceReports → u/TRooperVIIX]

Bobby admitted to leaving when Steven said he did, so that's not in dispute. And no, I wouldn't expect Teresa to have made it to the 147 and driven out of sight by the time Steven is shown exiting his trailer. The recreation literally shows her driving from the trailer to the 147 at normal speed lol The recreation shows the timeline fits perfectly. The only holes in Steven's story are the ones you're imagining.

[u/TRooperVIIX → u/AveryPoliceReports]

• Teresa leaves at 2:13
• Steven noted bobby's car is parked before 2:33
• Steven leaves his trailer at 3:23 (50 seconds)
• Steven noted that bobby's car was gone by 3:35 and Teresa is at the end of Avery Rd onto 147.
• Steven noted Bobby was gone at 3:35 while walking to Barbs trailer, this world have given hime time and the perfect vew to see bobby leave aswell?

For the record its a 55 second drive from Stevens trailer to the highway 147. (This is using the Timeline video) How dose Steven not see Bobby leaving and following Teresa, it would take Bobby 53 - 55 sec to make it to the end of the road too. Right from where he is walking he can see all the way down the driveway to the end of Avery Rd?

Unless bobby left before Teresa and Steven made up that he saw Teresa leave.

[u/AveryPoliceReports → u/TRooperVIIX]

He didn't see Bobby leave, but noticed he did. Why does that confuse you? Bobby did leave at this time. And to be clear, no one said (and the video does not depict) that Bobby was following immediately behind Teresa, or there was an unobstructed view from Steven's trailer to where Avery RD meets the offices. You're making multiple unfounded assumptions all while ignoring it's undisputed Bobby left when Steven said he did lol

[u/ThorsClawHammer]

Nice try Zellner, we know it's you! It's over!!!!

Lol

[u/AveryPoliceReports → u/ThorsClawHammer]

I love how guilters see someone using actual facts and automatically comeback with "you must be Zellner" LMAO maybe their opinion of her is higher than they care to admit! Either way, the identity of the person making an argument has no bearing on whether the factual basis of argument is valid or true. If I cite the MFR saying the recreation shows Steven was in his trailer for 50 seconds, and the attached video exhibit J is consistent with that (while also revealing it was Bobby who left his trailer roughly 14 seconds after Steven entered his own) then it does not matter whether I am Kathleen Zellner or a sentient toaster. What matters is the facts showing Zellner's critics are dead wrong on this "14 second" argument. No amount of "You must be Kathleen Zellner" is going to change that.

[u/CJB2005 → u/ThorsClawHammer]

Right?!?🤣🤣🤣

[u/AveryPoliceReports → u/ThorsClawHammer]

Damn this dipped below threshold? Classic guilters getting triggered when you hold up a mirror to their own behavior.

[u/ThorsClawHammer → u/AveryPoliceReports]

guilters getting triggered

Always, lol