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u/Sad-Recognition2908 7h ago
They all went below replacement level in less than 10 years. Crazy.
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u/YourCuntIsABot 7h ago
yeah, just wanted to comment that too, how quickly the rate dropped is quite insane. I remember when the fertility rates in Europe were a unique problem and now a lot of developing countries make those European rates look "good" in comparison. the difference is that most of those European countries only reached their extremely low rates after they became fully developed, which is not the case in most of South America
most of Asia will follow in the next decade, they are already on their way to it
the only advantage those nations have at the moment is, that they are much younger
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u/Final_Demand_3092 7h ago
Korea would be actually unrecognisable in 10 years.
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u/bloodrider1914 5h ago
So will the world TBF, AI is going to significantly change our economies and our societies.
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u/Professional_Eye5825 38m ago
One reason the drop is so quick is because, at least where I live in Guatemala, the generation of kids born from 1996 when the civil war ended through about 2010 was huge. Most of those kids either haven't had their own kids yet, or likely never will.
My wife is one of 8 kids. Her older siblings average 6 kids each. We have 3 kids. Her younger siblings average 1 kid each.
Lower infant/child mortality, longer lifespans, social media, changing cultural attitudes, etc. have ALL intersected in a way that makes for a absolutely unprecented rate of change.
Multifactorial causality at it's finest.
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u/Satur9kid 5h ago
Having a child when it’s nearly impossible to own a home or have a stable job these days? No, thanks.
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u/floodisspelledweird 34m ago
Ok this clearly isn’t the reason bc poorer communities have more kids.
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u/Satur9kid 15m ago
Clearly this is my reason
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u/floodisspelledweird 11m ago
It can be your reason but it isn’t the reason fertility is dropping- it’s likely changing expectations and woman getting more equal opportunities
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u/bloodrider1914 5h ago
Venezualans when their economy sucks more than all of their neighbours
"I'm sure having a kid will fix this"
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u/Boxitraciovzla 5h ago
Normally poor countries have more babies, so it kinda make sense. Also venezuela is still very conservative in that matter if you hit a certain age absolutely everyone will question why you don't have kids, it is so expected that a lot of people still think it's a must to have children (venezuelan living outside of venezuela here)
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u/bloodrider1914 5h ago
There are conservative countries elsewhere in Latin America though (like Paraguay for example) that aren't having kids either.
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u/Boxitraciovzla 4h ago
Yeah but venezuela have poor+ conservative. For some reason poor people tends to have more kids. As a venezuelan myself that number is being held that "high" because of the poorer classes. Of my friends the only ones having kids (im 27, and most my friends that are still there are between 24-30) are the lower income, like friends with 2 or 3 kids. The one with higher paying jobs either dont have kids or are having one and closing factory.
Also I'm from the 8th city in terms of population, but also lived in the capital, it's more common to have more kids if you don't live in the capital, most my friends woth kids are from said city, not caracas. To me it's kinda crazy but you can see a pattern of poorer countries having higher population growth than countries that are more stable. So makes sense to me.
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u/bloodrider1914 4h ago
Paraguay is fairly poor too
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u/Boxitraciovzla 4h ago
Not even close to venezuela. Its not even comparable in any manner. I've been to Paraguay since I'm living in argentina.
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u/Super-Estate-4112 2h ago
No way bro, in Paraguay they barely have paved roads.
How bad is it in Venezuela?
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u/AlexaSansot 1h ago
Venezuela has much more developed infrastructure because we were not always a socialist hellhole, it used to be an imperfect but growing democracy but always with high conservative ideals
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u/warda- 4h ago
No creo que sea solo una elección, en Venezuela han habído momentos con escasez de metodos anticonceptivos y el acceso en general es más restringido
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u/Boxitraciovzla 4h ago
Escasez de condones nunca hubo, si de otros métodos. Yo me fui en 2018. Asi que viví la peor parte de la escasez y no recuerdo que hubiese falta de condones, capaz si el acceso a. Pero no recuerdo que fuera ridículamente caros. Y siempre estuvieron dando vuelta por ahi los cordones del gobierno. Siempre alguien tenía de esos. A menos de que hubiese sido peor en algún otro momento. Diría que si hay mucha falta de educación sexual. Creeria que en el reto de latam há disminuido mas la tasa de embarazo infantil vs venezuela. Pero no lo puedo asegurar.
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u/warda- 4h ago
Bueno yo me fui muy pequeña, pero se que mis primas batallaban mucho para conseguir pastilla y que habían listas de espera para usar DIU u otros metodos de larga duración, los cuales son mucho más efectivos que los condones, porque el riesgo de error humano es menor, una prima tuvo una perdida porque le pusieron un implanon en mal estado.
Tambien hay temas de educación sexual, pero me parece injusto comparar con paises que tienen un acceso mucho mayor, acá en Chile la T de cobre, la inyección entre otros metodos son muy económicos y de facil acceso.
Además la tasa de natalidad ni siquiera es alta, es la taza de reemplazo.
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u/Boxitraciovzla 3h ago
El condon siempre es la mejor opción porque además evita otros tipos de anticonceptivos, tambien es común en otras partes de latam como argentina dejar de usar método hormonales y pasar a cordones. Asi que falta mucha educación sexual igualmente.
Si bien otros paises tienen mas acceso a dichos métodos mas caros, el condon siempre esta y los riesgos de error humano son bastante chicos, son una educación sexual relativamente mínima.
No conozco a nadie que haya quedado embarazada por error de método, si por descuido (no digo que no pasen, pero no son mayoria)
Ypor ser conservatives es raro recurrir al aborto, cuando si bien en venezuela no es legal, conseguir abortivos tempranos es super sencillo, tengo historial de 3 abortos de amigas autoinducidos y conseguir los abortivos fue bastante sencillo.
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u/warda- 3h ago
El condon es muy bueno porque prevee ETS, pero esta demostrado que mientras mas depende un anticonceptivo de la disiplina o memoria de las personas son menos efectivos.
Aqui hay un articulo donde lo presentan, hay mucha bibliografía al respecto no se pueden hacer analisis poblacionales con evidencia anecdotica.
https://www.acog.org/womens-health/infographics/eficacia-de-los-metodos-anticonceptivos.
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u/Cocavi 17m ago
El condon es bueno para evitar enfermedades de transmisión sexual. Pero para evitar embarazos no.
Qué tan efectivo es un método anticonceptivo se mide con el índice de Pearl. Incluso hay comparaciones con el uso habitual (con el que 18 de cada 100 mujeres se embarazan con puro condon), versus uso teóricamente perfecto (que baja a 2 de cada 100)
Pero si lo comparas con métodos hormonales todos tienen mejores valores / resultados tanto en los índices teóricos como los de uso habitual.Mientras menos dependan del usuario y sus descuidos, mejor va a ser.
Por ejemplo, los métodos implantables, inyectables o anillos vaginales tienen mejores resultados que las pastillas.
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u/WonderfulAsk8662 4h ago
The average in Venezuela is 2 children per women and you're talking as if it was 5 or 6.
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u/Fern-ando 3h ago
More money =less kids.
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u/bloodrider1914 3h ago
Generally yes, but it's not the simple nor directly causal. Secular Jews in Israel have a higher birthrate than Bolivia or Paraguay for example.
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u/Fern-ando 2h ago
That's because more religious= more kids.
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u/Double-decker_trams 1h ago
Do you not know what secular means? Yeah, more religious and more children - but Paraguay is definitely on average more religious than Israel.
In Israel:
- Secular (Hiloni) Israeli women ~1.96 to 2.0 children per woman
- Ultra-Orthodox (Haredi) Israeli women ~6.1 to 6.75 children per woman.
- Muslim Israeli women: ~2.76 (Non-muslim Arabs a bit less).
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u/Fern-ando 1h ago
Israel is a more religious society, even if you are a secular person that influences you.
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u/mujhe-sona-hai 4h ago
Having a balanced population pyramid does help an economy more than an unbalanced one, yes
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u/WonderfulAsk8662 4h ago
Colombia, Chile, Argentina and Uruguay having the fertility rates of Spain but without the living standards of Spain
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u/PassaTempo15 2h ago
That’s been the case for a while. Everyone is worried about Europe and Japan but Latam will probably die even sooner, our fertility rate is even lower than Europe’s and unlike them we have negative immigration rates
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u/cantonlautaro 2h ago
Chile does NOT have negative immigration.
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u/PassaTempo15 2h ago
I’m well aware. It’s one of the few countries that doesn’t, and it’s (or should be) temporary due to Venezuela’s crisis.
Still, Chile’s migration rate isn’t enough to keep the population stable for long, seen the catastrophic fertility rate
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u/il-cavallino-triste 5h ago
I see almost no middle-class and very few upper-class families having children in Argentina, for different reasons. Most families having two or three children seem to be from lower-income backgrounds, and sadly, the quality of the public education available to them is appalling.
If Argentina could maintain the same number of well-educated people in future generations, I'd still have some hope. But looking at the younger generations, I honestly don't have much hope at all. Not because I'm just an old fart who thinks today's teenagers are doomed, but because I have relatives who have been working as teachers in public schools outside Buenos Aires for years, and some of the things they've told me about the situation are genuinely frightening.
As expected, nothing is going to change, regardless of whether a centre-left or centre-right government is in power.
At this point, our only hope might be to attract well-educated immigrants. Otherwise, and I suspect this is what will happen, we're doomed.
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u/Responsible-Trifle93 2h ago
Unfortunately, several Latin American countries do not treat education as a priority, even though it is a key to development
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u/BleaKrytE 46m ago
Because education and development threaten the power of the old land owning agribusiness elite.
At least that's the case here in Brazil
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u/surferdude213 1h ago
What is happening in Chile, Argentina, Uruguay, and Colombia (especially Chile)?
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u/Matias9991 54m ago
It's not one thing but a bunch of things that's lowering the fertility rate worldwide
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u/capibara_dono 39m ago
From Chile, prices are too high, salaries too low, rent is too high, the dream of owning a place to live is impossible, unemployment is high, not much social security nets...
It would be irresponsible to have a kid I can't provide for. Plus as a woman, it would be harder to get a job if they figure out you have kids.
I'm in my late 30s, only 2 friends have had kids, both unexpected.
Many of us also take care of our parents, or other family members.
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u/Donk-keyDonkeyDonk 44m ago
Fuck them kids. I want to live my life as my own lol - Sincerely, a chilena
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u/Bad_Gazpacho 42m ago
This is what's happening. Hedonistic, "the world ends with me" imported mentalities.
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u/EveryActive4237 12m ago
no hay trabajo, no hay dinero, el aumento de desempleo aumenta todos los meses y el costo de vida aumenta mucho todos los meses.
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u/Mindless-Recover2029 6h ago
I think most people are seriously underestimating how much of a problem this is.
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u/fyn_world 1h ago
They have no idea
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u/Mindless-Recover2029 1h ago
Yeah, I've tried explaining it to people too and the general consensus is "less people is a good thing." Like, sure, less stupid or bad people wouldn't hurt, but if the population of your country starts to decrease, it's a snowball effect.
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u/LucasLaxXIV 7h ago
Based Guianas.
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u/igpila 6h ago
Based Chile
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u/bloodrider1914 5h ago
Chileans aren't having kids because they can't afford them, not because they don't want them.
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u/MentirosoProfesional 5h ago
That explain why poorer countries aren't having this problem or why poorer people in chile have 4 kids or more just fine, while entitled younger generations aren't willing to have a single kids because that might affect their "standards of living"
Chileans will have to switch from Coca-Cola to off-brand sodas just to afford kids, so sad! 😓
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u/Ok-Organization9073 4h ago
It's still because of costs. The poor always had kids without thinking on how they will afford them. Middle class people used to wait until having certain economic stability and then would have kids. But since that minimum stability is very hard to reach now, they are not having them, simply because the pre-requisites are not met.
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u/MentirosoProfesional 4h ago
"but since that minimum stability is very hard to reach now"
My brother in Christ, it has always been this way, in the case of chile, it was even worse before, and according to that logic, that means the "the middle class" isn't so "middle", which means they're poor, which means that then, they would follow their other peers and start having kids regardless, no? But that doesn't happen does it?
It's one thing if you use the excuse of housing, which is a problem nowadays everywhere with inflation, but it's always "I don't have the money" even when they own their own place and are having a confortable or somewhat decent living status.
My big brother has managed quite well to raise three children and he doesn't earn 1/3 or what the average redditor (at least Chilean ones, since this website is niche for most Chileans and higher class Chileans are overrepresented) here earns. He doesn't have a college degree, yet he was still able to buy a home with the help of the government, and they have been living a decent life, it hasn't been easy, but it was not even near as hard as all people here make it to be.
Let's just accept that todays generations are too lazy and too confortable living without the responsibility and cost of kids and move on, at least in my case that's why I choose not to have kids.
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u/MishuxUniverse 3h ago
Antes en mi familia solo trabajaba mi papá y mi mamá se quedaba en la casa, cuidándonos. No vivíamos excelente pero al menos teníamos casa. Hoy en día no se puede vivir con un solo sueldo porque comprar una casa es imposible y los arriendos son carísimos. No se trata de que ahora la gente sea floja o cómoda (al menos no en todos los casos), es que antes la gente no tenía el mismo nivel de educación que tiene ahora, y no me puedes decir que es mentira porque es cosa de ver cómo la gente pobre sigue teniendo hijos que no pueden mantener, mientras que la gente con un poco más de capital cultural no. Cuando empiezas a ser consciente del sufrimiento que le impones a un niño que va a nacer en la miseria, dejas de tenerlos.
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u/Syoby 31m ago
I don't think the historical norm was ever having kids as a sort of sacrifice (at least for the ones who could choose, which was men for the most part), people have always been overehelmengly self-interested and thus they had kids because they saw some personal benefit from it, economic or otherwise.
It's not about money alone, but it's always about "what does this do for me", and if the answer is that the bad outweighs the benefit people will keep choosing no.
For the very poor, specially historically, having kids was also extra labor and there wasn't much to lose. But as economies develop they become increasingly a costly luxury that means sacrificing many other luxuries.
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u/plby 3h ago
animals in captivity doesn't reproduce
Impossible to have childrens without jobs, homes and any hope for a future except a revolution.
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u/JuaneteXHoles 3h ago
I think is the other way around, said countries with lower fertility rates have been improving their life standards and educational opportunities consistently in the last 20 years, even doubling it in some cases.
Lower fertility rates are often linked with higher educational levels. People here in Colombia are drifting to have less kids cause they want to travel, buy assets and have better professional careers.3
u/RaticidioTotal 1h ago
Educational opportunities in Latinamerica are hardly tied to an increase in life quality over previous generations. Cab drivers and cleaning ladies were able to get their kids through university, only for those kids ending up stuck in bilingual call centers because there's no job market for professinals or the salaries are utter dogshit. So the first people in their families to ever get a degree just end up scraping by on a month to month basis to rent an even shitter place than what their parents managed to do at their age with jobs that barely required literacy
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u/Professional_Eye5825 41m ago
This is a complex issue. Like most real world scenarios, the causality is multifactorial.
I live in Guatemala and have personaly known multiple couples who wanted to get married and have kids but chose not to due to economic reasons, validating what the person above stated.
At the same time, it's also true that wealthy countries generally have lower fertility rates. There isn't an exact correlation, but I think the elephant in the room is contraceptive use, (both availabililty AND cultural attitudes).
So it can be true that some people who want to have kids don't due to lack of good jobs, housing etc.
At the same time, it's not the primary or only driving factor. In addition, although Chile is wealthier than most of LATAM, it's not wealthier than the US or most of Europe and yet has lower birth rates.
Interesting discussion : )
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u/JuaneteXHoles 0m ago
You hit the nail with that approach, it is indeed a multifactorial issue.
All I can talk about is my own context. I grew up in a city surrounded by a lot of social and cultural deficiencies, one of the most violent cities of the world in the nineties, the change over the last 20 even 30 years has been dramatic. Political leaders approaching poverty and violence as a result of social inequalities, and therefore, making huge investments in educational infrastructure, schools, libraries, means of transportation, etc. Made a huge impact in the way people think and reflect over their own possibilities.
Before, you would see poor families having 3+ kids, accepting their fate without thinking a lot about it. Nowadays it’s a different thing, people are aware of their own means and their material living conditions. Now, they at least think twice about the impacts of having a child. You don’t get that without education, access to contraceptive methods, and again, lots of sex ed.
In the particular case of Colombia, by no means we are near the European level of development, but, the shift in the culture around having a child has made an even greater difference in the amount of births.4
u/plby 3h ago
I live in Brasil and I could say the same time we got out of misery and hunger (better minimum living standards) the money value got really bad, and we really lost the capability to buy any asset, house, cars and luxuries... the job market got really worse with less and less good jobs (more then the minimum wage) so we can eat, have a better health in general, but a perspective of growing??? none
My perspective as a Brazilian and of the people that I know, and looking about the politics opinion we can sense the same. Most people dislike the two candidates, cause they can sense the stagnation in Lula's government and the USA in Bolsonaro's.
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u/gemanepa 1h ago
On r/argentina we often say that an orc doesn't bring more orcs into Mordor. The country has been on crisis since forever
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u/Dry-Captain4437 2h ago
i feel like this bullshit shows up every 2 days on my feed. what's the goddamn point?
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u/carpe_diem_yolo 2h ago
Raise imagined birth rate hysteria to reduce women to brood mares and reduce progress women have made.
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u/Anxious-Track-754 1h ago
No. It's a warning of the upcoming, existential crisis, that we're going to face in our piss poor, shitty countries. In 20 years we will be feeling the squeeze
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u/Dry-Captain4437 1h ago
yeah pretty much how i feel whenever i see these things. always dudes reducing maternity to a statistic. sickens me
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u/Left-Effect-8017 36m ago
Governments are actually worried about this. It's a big deal because the whole world is a giant pyramid scheme that's on track to collapse in the coming decades. Social security will become insolvent and there won't physically be enough young people to care for the elderly generation. Just because it makes you feel icky doesn't mean it shouldn't be talked about.
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u/fyn_world 1h ago edited 1h ago
There's no future and your retirement savings will be removed because there will be no youth to pay for it
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u/NovelCar5453 7h ago
not low enough <3 that's what you get for turning the continent into trump's playground
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u/wackeman07 2h ago
Chile en tasa de ABORTOS le gana a todos, autodestrucción y recambio poblacional ese es el destino del mejor país de Chile al parecer.
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u/shiny_p4 1h ago
Uh? Y este ql inventando escenarios?
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u/Guilty_Field2759 1h ago
Inventando que? Es la cruda verdad, los immigrantes va a reemplazara a una gran parte del chileno, en los colegios publicos esta repleto.
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u/ThePizzaInspector 20m ago
I'm from Argentina. Last year I started my own retirement fund.
In SP500 we trust.
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u/scoop813 2h ago
Social security needs to be tied to having kids
If you don't have kids you don't get social security payments when you're old
That's the nature of a pay as you go system.
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u/Minipiman 2h ago
That is básically not having social security but with extra steps.
Being taken care of when old was always an important motivation for having kida.
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u/Fern-ando 3h ago
Imagine a world without chileans.
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u/Guilty_Field2759 1h ago
Latinoamerica pasa de ser una mierda de continente a ser el peor, uruguay y costa rica los unicoa que darian la cara.
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u/Key-Mathematician539 16m ago
Uruguay va por el mismo camino. En un par de decadas LATAM va a ser puro veneco, bolita y centroamericano.
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u/Guilty_Field2759 14m ago
Eso es lo que quieren las elites, te digo tengan cuidado en uruguay, aqui las escuelas publicas estan llenas de caribeños, como les gusta odiar a la patria a las elites es malvado.
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u/Key-Mathematician539 12m ago
Argentina no tanto pero va en camino, ayuda el tamaño de nuestra población pero es inevitable si nadie se reproduce.
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u/MentirosoProfesional 5h ago
Chileans gonna say and cry that it is because of money, while that same generation of young guys and women crying over money go on expensive trips to Europe of buy the lastest playstation and can't use any clothes that doesn't have an American/European branding on it
They got money for every kind of personal luxury you can think of, they live 10 times better than their parents and grandparents, yet still bitch they never got any money for kids, okay...
And before my fellow Chileans of reddit disconnected with reality angrily downvote me, you can look yourself at r/Chile, people talking about how then can't have kids because it would "lower their standards of living" or that they don't wanna send their kid to public school and want a private one that cost like a thousand dollars monthly, otherwise they would rather just not have a kid
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u/Embarrassed-Tie-9981 5h ago
Y quién va a obligarlos? Vos?
Es preferible que los hijos sean deseados, o directamente no los tengan.
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u/MentirosoProfesional 5h ago
Lmao I don't care if they have kids or not, I don't want kids myself, but I'm not gonna bitch and pretend that it is because of money while I have a steam library with 10000000 games and spend 10000 dollarydoos on Funko pops monthly or going to expensive concerts like my generation does :)
Chileans love to pretend they don't have kids because of money while migrants for poorer countries arrive here with absolutely nothing and have 4+ kids, no problem, and the same happens outside of chile were birth rates are stable and uprising while they 2 or 3 times poorer than chile is.
But go ahead and gaslight me you got no money for kids while indulging in luxury every day
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u/Embarrassed-Tie-9981 5h ago
Es su decisión, desde qué autoridad moral los juzgas? Noto mucha envidia de tu parte
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u/MentirosoProfesional 5h ago
Autoridad moral? Envidia? Solamente estoy diciendo que si no quieren hijos, no los tengan, pero después no andén pataleando que es porque no tiene dinero (si tienen).
Tengo amigas que dicen "no tengo dinero para tener hijos" pero si tienen dinero para tener dos gatos de razas exóticas y gastar MILES de dólares en ellos entre comida de gato premium, visitas al veterinario, o lo último de moda, hoteles, psicólogos o spa para mascotas...
Pero dale, estoy súper envidioso de esa gente jaja
Creo que te ofendió personalmente mi comentario, no?
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u/Venezzia032 4h ago
Dude, you have not fucking idea. I thought like you until not so long.
Here, in Perú, most of the people that doesn't wanna have kids are young people. Some of them have stupid reasons, but most of them do this because they don't earn enough money.
Think on this way. In 60's your grandfather, with some money, could buy a terrain where he can build a proper house. On those times, the cost of living was so low comparing to today. There was reasons for having child. Now, see the houses that some people are buying in Western Europe. 12 fucking squared metres!. It's impossible to have even one child on that hideout.
And also youth people want to enjoy the life earlier. They don't wanna retire when they are elder. So they travel to Europe, so much earlier than the past generations did.
Waiting answer
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u/Character-Table-5292 5h ago
Why so low rate is in Colombia?
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u/RaticidioTotal 1h ago
Because at least untill the current administration, sex education was pushed despite the Catholic influence. Yes there was period of teenage pregnancies, but people actually learned from it. Couple that with our economy sucking ass. I'm an engineer with 7 years of practice and I don't even make $4/hr, but plenty of shit is not particularly cheaper than in the rest of the world, save for rent and education. Successive and directly opposed goverments haven't made any effort whatsoever to make things easier for parents. Leaving the country is seen as the only way towards an actual decent life
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u/vladgrinch 8h ago
• Chile has one of the lowest fertility rates on the continent, at just 0.99 children per woman.
• Argentina, Colombia and Uruguay are also experiencing very low fertility.
• Brazil, South America’s largest country, stands at approximately 1.52 children per woman.
• Venezuela is among the countries closest to the replacement level, at 2.01.