r/MinaTheHollower • u/ChaoticDiscord21 • 2d ago
Opinion I have a lot of skill issues with this game.
So I got Mina at launch and still haven't done a full legitimate run.
For me the healing system is too confusing and counter productive too wrap my head around.
I don't get the spark system at all. (Found out some bosses have a limit to how many Sparks they can take)
Boss fights quickly devolve from me taking my time and picking my moments to hit to running around frantically while trying to heal.
I remember getting to the hulk trooper just outside of town when I started and being stuck on him for a bit. Until I grinded to level 5 attack and defense.
My question to the group is. Anyone else struggling to get through the game with out mods? Those who did beat the game with out mods was it enjoyable, if so what made the experience enjoyable?
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u/Positive-Raisin6950 2d ago
I played using the shield and definitely felt its weaknesses in some areas and it's strengths in others. If you're struggling try switching up your build completely and see if anything else works better for you
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u/ChaoticDiscord21 2d ago
I know the game offers like a million different ways to build, so still trying to find the ones that work for me. It does seem like every area has one or two required trinkets.
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u/Lonely-Tree-157 2d ago
The difficulty is weird for this game. It's not tremendously hard but it annoys me just enough where I have no desire to keep playing.
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u/ChaoticDiscord21 2d ago
Same, like I'm not raging or claiming unfair at the game. I'm just struggling and feeling it's always me being bad at games
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u/Lonely-Tree-157 2d ago
Nah it's definitely not just you. I've beaten plenty of harder games and I do think Mina is very well-made but to me it's just lacking fun-factor. Something like Silksong would frustrate me for hours but I'd keep at it. With Mina I just quit and think maybe I'll come back to it later but I don't
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u/ChaoticDiscord21 2d ago
I think that's a fair way of putting it. Normally I don't mind challenging a section of game over and over but with Mina it just has this tediousness to it that's a little off putting.
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u/MechGryph 2d ago
I managed to scrape out a win and finished the game. I've got a friend that loves these types of games, and even he was saying Mina is hard. There are items that can help, doing a bit of bone farming can make it easier.
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u/8lue5hift 2d ago
I think the hardest boss for me was the Hulk Trooper. I didn't find the game hard because by the time I found my first Spark Tower, I was already leveled enough for Coltrane.
The plasma healing is simple. When you deal damage, missing HP begins to fill up with plasma. Popping a vial immediately transmutes orange plasma into real HP. Getting damaged decreases current plasma. Getting hit while using a vial shatters the vial and cancels the heal, so only use a vial when you're sure it's safe to do so.
Mina has a limited number of sparks. When she dies, she drops a spark at her location. If she died to an enemy, that enemy absorbs the spark. You must return to the area and collect the floating spark. If it was absorbed, kill the enemy. Dying with no sparks destroys all your bones. Enemies have a maximum spark limit, so they can't absorb more forever.
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u/ChaoticDiscord21 2d ago
So say I can't get a spark back from an enemy (too difficult) is there a way to regain that spark?
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u/HughJassProductions 2d ago
You can level up (Bonestone levels count too) and it will restore all of your sparks.
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u/maskedman1231 2d ago
When you run out entirely you get them all back. Just spend your bones or convert them into bonestone and then it won't matter if you run out of sparks
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u/rival22x 2d ago
Level up or use the trinket that recovers sparks
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u/ChaoticDiscord21 2d ago
I'll probably just die anyway. My level is max before I go to the crypt.
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u/rival22x 2d ago
Oh ok I meant leveling up restores all sparks. You can try different trinket combos. The extra invincibility frames one is something I used a lot. Also change them up between exploring and boss fights. Life preserver and extra jumping are helpful platforming but absolutely useless in boss fights so don’t forget to swap trinkets often. Find the sidearm that covers your weapon weakness. I played mostly exclusively with hammer so I always carried drill or the green vial side arm so I’d have access to a dash sometimes when I couldn’t burrow.
Besides being max level did you get all the cape upgrades? There’s two that increase max health. One being in the tailor and the other being found
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u/ChaoticDiscord21 2d ago
Yeah I did one on the train and one in the store. I have beaten this game modded a few times.
I'm just wishing I could play with out the training wheels for once.
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u/No-Act386 2d ago
Ok to explain how healing works (keep in mind I am a nightstar main) you deal damage to enemy the yellow bar is filled you have those yellow poition and it feel to the amount of yellow bar you have.
The spark system work like this the enemy which killed you contain the orb kill if it and is back if you lose all your sparks any bones you hold on yourself is gone but there is a trinket known as the bell of graces that may keep a spark you lose on death and will let you keep half of the bones you lost if you die after losing sparks.
While grinding is something necessary for bosses is also a matter of analyze their attacks any ebemy have telegrpah to avoid and if the issue is diagonal attacl with night star there is an upgrade that let you move the whip like in castlevania 4.
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u/HughJassProductions 2d ago edited 2d ago
Use the Blaststrike Maul and the upgrade that lets you charge your smash (but not necessarily the one that gives you the follow up move because that actually makes it harder to use IMO).
Get the Protospark that revives you on death (duke sidequest at the end of Queensbury Crypt).
While you're at the crypt, grab a Mist Jar. Save this as your saved sidearm in the Underlabs.
Get the the Vascular Syrup that causes your HP to drain at a slow rate instead of losing it right away (somewhere in Nox's Bayou, I believe in the Thick Thicket but I'm not 100% sure right now).
When you get hit, start using the Mist Jar to dash through enemies before your health ticks down.
Get the Plasma Jug (from the frog guy who asks you to fill his jug at the Backwaters).
Get the Plasma Funnel that speeds up healing (bought at the trinket shop).
Get the Primed Vial Pouch (house with the basement in Southern Outskirts).
This loadout will make it much easier for you to recover when you get hit and with the Blaststrike Maul you have to take your time to line up a shot on enemies anyway, so picking your moments to hit them is not a detriment.
The game is punishing, but with these trinkets you should be able to get yourself out of near death situations thanks to the Vascular Syrup + Mist Jar combo and this will give you the time and space you need to learn enemy patterns and figure out which animations mean what attacks are coming next. EDIT: Also, it is not immediately obvious, but you can spam Mist Jar dashes to get yourself across the screen and away from enemies so long as you have the joules.
Once you start learning enemy tells and patterns, you will be able to improve.
EDIT 2: Fixed some grammar and capitalization. One other note, I spaced that you need to kill the Red Frog enemy before you get the Plasma Jug, and that could be too difficult at this stage. Get the other trinkets I mentioned first before going for that one. If that is just a fight you're not going to win yet, though, don't worry about it. It is nice to have but it is also the least important trinket I listed.
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u/HughJassProductions 2d ago
Also, I found on my first few runs that it always benefitted me more to level up defense than it did attack. Attack levels end up being better once you've learned the game, but while you're learning, Defense is way more useful to you. You should even delay attack level ups to get another level in Defense if you find you are still having trouble.
Don't bother with sidearm damage levels. It doesn't affect the Mist Jar enough to be worth the bones. You can, however, use the level up to heal if you are in dire straits.
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u/Snarwin 2d ago
Trinkets and sidearms are extremely powerful in this game. You can go from getting your ass kicked to completely trivializing a fight just by changing your build. It's possible to win with any build by "gitting gud," of course, but you definitely don't have to.
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u/MackerelShaman 2d ago
This here. The game is entirely built around trinket combos. Take Mina as a totally blank character sheet that you add abilities to with trinkets. There are trinkets that up your healing speed and even auto-heal as soon as you have the plasma from it. There are some that improve dodging, burrowing, and movement speed. Get as many as you can as soon as possible then find the combo that works best for your skills.
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u/Difficult_Tie1669 2d ago
Make save backups constantly is what helped me get through it. That way, you can bypass the punishments of the spark system entirely while enjoying the game without mods and still get achievements.
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u/ChaoticDiscord21 2d ago
I assume you're playing on PC or do you rotate saves on main menu?
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u/Difficult_Tie1669 2d ago
Pc and switch, and you can do this on menu with your save files. For example, if you just cleared a hard section or about to do a hard section or boss - just exit to menu, copy your save data to another slot, then load one of them. Just lost all your bones to a boss after losing all your sparks? Just exit menu, copy your backup save data to overwrite the file you lost at, then load one of them up.
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u/ChaoticDiscord21 2d ago
This is pretty genius, how did you come up with it?
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u/Difficult_Tie1669 2d ago
Thanks, it’s just something I figured out quickly from how the game works and because it has a copy data feature and multiple save slots. I’m also used to backing up my saves in other games where it allows it in-game. Hope that helps, good luck on the game
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u/ChaoticDiscord21 2d ago
Thanks, I've beaten multiple times just never legitimately. I always crack somewhere
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u/TwilightVulpine 2d ago
I'm halfway into the game and I still don't get burrowing.
Jump to burrow as the enemy is attacking? Get hit. Jump to burrow when the enemy starts the wind-up animation? Get hit. Guess when they are gonna ready the attack and burrow first? Too soon! Pop out, get hit.
I'm overleveling, facetanking and outhealing pretty much every big battle because I don't get how to work with the basic mechanics. Seriously. I've watched Yatch Club talk about it and watched better players playing, and I still don't get how I'm supposed to use it.
Thank goodness for overleveling and trinkets, I guess...
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u/ChaoticDiscord21 2d ago
I feel the same way. It feels even the timing changes on some attacks because I swear I burrow when I know I should and still take a hit.
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u/metashadow 2d ago
I'm not done with the game yet (still have the generator in the snow area), but this has been my experience with bosses:
The strat thats worked for me so far is learning which attacks come when, and just staying away as far as possible until a window to attack appears.
I think most bosses will do a pretty set pattern of attack 1 - attack 2 - attack 3 and repeat. And its usually only safe to hit them after one of those attacks.
Bosses do speed up their attacks/ weave new attacks in when their hp gets lower.
I usually always have the same set of trinkets for boss fights. Protospark, plasma funnel, and primed vial pouch almost never leave my bag.
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u/Cowgirl_Taint 2d ago
Boss fights quickly devolve from me taking my time and picking my moments to hit to running around frantically while trying to heal.
Pretty much. Just replace "trying to heal" with "trying to not get hit"
There are trinkets that help a lot and you should seek them out. But Mina and Silksong both very much were games built around actively NOT "getting up in dat ass" as it were. Which was less bothersome in Mina since controls are stiff enough that they lend themselves to that anyway.
Beyond that? Treat it like any Souls game. Always try to fight a boss with no soft souls/bones. So spend some hard resources to level up. Most levels/areas are designed to make one-ish lap enough to level you up anyway. At which point you are fighting bosses with nothing to lose and can mostly just vibe.
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u/ChaoticDiscord21 2d ago
I think my biggest problem here is there being a level cap by default. I usually compensate lack of skill with stats.
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u/Cowgirl_Taint 2d ago
I would say that the bosses definitely feel fairly balanced around the expected level for the encounter. And I forget which one it was, but I took a few laps around the area (did a side quest) and they felt like almost a pushover.
I'll also add that unlike a Silksong or Nine Sols: The final (non-post game) bosses are... kind of a joke? Like, the difficulty is very front/mid loaded because the trinkets can make a massive difference (and you should be swapping around). But also it felt like YC realized they had done a bad with certain traversal areas and basically put giant neon signs telegraphing every single attack for the bosses themselves. Like... I wouldn't say it soured me on the game, but it definitely ended on a meh point (for me, at least). But I also think the idea is that people who wanted more should fight the unfair post-game bosses and... no.
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u/TwilightVulpine 2d ago
I 100%'d Silksong and I still can't make sense off of Mina the Hollower.
Hornet is frailer than the Knight but I could figure out how to bounce and weave and play somewhat cleanly.
In Mina I can never figure out the timing to dodge and burrow. I've been managing my way halfway through the game, but in the ugliest and dirtiest way, stacking recovery trinkets, overleveling and such. I can never win a battle clean. I don't know what it is about it.
I still really like the world and characters, but the gameplay is killing me.
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u/Cowgirl_Taint 2d ago
Hornet is made of tissue paper but her moveset is able to counter that. It takes hours to realize that all the skills that make you want to "get up in dat ass" are actually about getting you in and out of the hot spot. Once that clicks and you realize you need to be in hit and run mode, it works REALLY well.
Mina... is made out of soggy cardboard. But the nature of the game ("16-bit") very much means that you need to plan ahead. Even her evasion skill (burrowing) is "weird" in that you have a significant wind-up before you get i-frames. So every other game is about waiting to dodge/parry until the very last second... whereas Mina you need to actually fall for all of the delayed attacks if you want to avoid them.
But yeah. Try different weapons. I mostly used the whip/morningstar the entire time because it was fast enough that I could punish but also had long enough range that I had time to start the five hour effort of turning around and waddling away once the enemy started to wake up from a stun.
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u/TwilightVulpine 2d ago
Even dodging sooner, it still doesn't click for me. A fair amount of time, I jump when I see enemies winding up and they still catch me.
Unsurprisingly, the weapon that seems to be working very well for me now that I got it is the coffin shield. I can work better with pitiful range but actual defense and parry counter than with long range that enemies cross before I can do anything about it.
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u/AdDense1750 2d ago
The game is pretty tricky at first, but once you gain experience, learn the controls, and get some useful trinkets it will get a little easy for you.
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u/Sea_Philosophy3514 2d ago
Im just stating playing and I use the daggers and if where been getting destroyed
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u/sax87ton 2d ago
Boss fights quickly devolve from me taking my time and picking my moments to hit to running around frantically while trying to heal.
I beat the game without mods (and had fun). And I would largely describe this as the way I played too.
I started with the hammer, I initially thought it was really hard, but I kind of got used to it.
By the end the platforming was still hard, but the combat o got used to. Specifically there’s a screen with a bunch of bushes and holes under them. And there’s both turrets and monsters. The first time I went through there I was like “this is a nightmare”. But going back through there it isn’t hard at all.
The sparks are kind of weird. The only one that really matters is the last one.
Healing is hard. There’s a trinket you can get pretty early on that makes it so you can always heal a little and get a couple extra vials. That will probably help.
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u/Ijustlovevideogames 2d ago
Healing works similar to Bloodborne (which might not be a game you have played) to heal, you need to do damage and fill up the damage you have lost before being able to heal, it is a very harsh system, luckily, there are sidearms like the Dash Juice which while it does no damage, gives healing and a rather generous amount of i frames.
Spark System is effectively just a life system like old school and when you run out of spark, your next death makes you drop your bones, that is it, you don't want to worry about it too much, just make sure to level up or spend bones before you die a final time.
That is indeed how boss fights are in this game, don't worry, that is intended and yes, this game is hard.
Are you burrowing a lot, because that is your defensive mechanic to dodge most attacks as it is both faster then walking most of the time and most attacks can't hit you in the ground (not all, but most).
The game didn't start getting enjoyable for me until I started getting the sidearms and trinkets that complimented how I wanted to play, I badly wanted a parry or defense mechanic (and didn't find my first shield until like the 4 area I went to) BUT once I found the dash juice, the game clicked now that I had an option to let me avoid damage with a button press as opposed to having to predict a second or two in the future. I then began to get trinkets that further complimented my playstyle like one that let me burrow longer and another that let me burrow again immediately after rising up from a burrow and another that effectively gave me infinite side arms.
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u/ChaoticDiscord21 2d ago
I have played Bloodborne and thought the combat and healing were alright. My biggest flaw is that I habitually burrow away when I take a hit from a boss because I'm used to most games doing that. Take a hit, gain some distance, heal, then approach.
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u/Ijustlovevideogames 2d ago
You do what most people do because it feels natural, you have taken damage, your brain says flee to recover, this game doesn't want that.
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u/Rinku_No_Mae 2d ago
Oh, well, I finished the game 5 days after release, I had a lot of fun with it and didn't cheese or use anything weird. I also used the hammer and hammer only. No mods, no nothing, pure vanilla and get gut skills as they say.
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u/ChaoticDiscord21 2d ago
...I've run out of git gud juice it seems.
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u/KuatoLivesAgain 2d ago
I got the game a few weeks back and played through with hammer as well, had a great time. Mostly focused on burrowing around and then using charge attacks. Has really solid range with the charge attack and also felt like there was a bit of forgiveness with getting the “corner” of an enemy and still getting the hit. And mobility is surprisingly good with the roll if needed as well. Would recommend!
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u/Rinku_No_Mae 2d ago
Don't feel bad about it. Try to find a way to enjoy the game, rather than suffer from it.
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u/VGMKoren 1d ago
I legitimately don't understand why people don't experiment when they don't understand basic mechanics.
Just spawn, find a nonboss enemy, and pay attention to how the meters change change dependent on what you do. Try getting hit. Try healing off the damage.
Don't just charge into battles and swing blindly when you don't know the basics. It's okay to slow down and figure things out.
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u/Kaendre 1d ago
The start of this game is the hardest part, but once you do some exploration, finish your first dungeon (probably the crypt) it becomes really easy since you start to counter some of the annoyances with upgrades and trinkets. Once you get the hang of the gameplay, the difficulty drops by a LOT and the spark system is something you won't even worry about. It can be worth to bank your bones instead of buying an upgrade until you are done with a section of the game.
And if you don't enjoy challenge, just adjust some of the modifiers to make the experience more enjoyable, it's really simple.
I've beat the game with no mods, and the sole part that got me pissed was finding the entrance to bone beach, which is really easy to miss. The first hours can be hard until you get the hang of the platforming.
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u/monoelectrico 1d ago
I got the core pretty early, picked hammer to beginning to end focing me to get the system inself: commit. Start ur offense is a commit, Healing is a commit, get heal potential is a commit, hollow is a commit. This remind me the old monster hunter gen and with that mind set i made it.
ngl hammer was painful the first hours but it was my teacher all along the travel. them with all the trinckets system my hollow knight and hk silk song sleeping agent stared to be crazy experimenting with posiviltys.
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u/Arcreonis 1d ago
Yeah, I enjoyed Mina to a degree after turning on like, nearly all the easy mode modifiers. But it's really frustrating.
I wrote this critique in a reply to YCG:
I love hard games that don't punish you for failing. I'll go 50 tries on a Cuphead boss, no problem. There's no penalty for losing except having to try again. Fair and satisfying.
So why do people make games that punish you for losing? Mina screws you over if you fail and makes it even harder to succeed when you try again. (You lose bones, abilities, health, and progress.)
Why would anyone find that fun? That's like if I die once to a Cuphead boss, on my next try I get only 2 HP instead of 3, and I also lose my EX ability to boot (unless I go somewhere else to farm it again). That's not fun, that's wasting my time.
Enough with the mean-spirited game design, people. I bought your game to have fun, not get 40 lashes for being only an average player.
I get that some people find Souls games fun. But I really, really don't get it. And I hate the worship of maximally hard games. I want a challenge, but I don't want a punishment.
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u/ChaoticDiscord21 1d ago
I agree with this. I like souls games but they feel like they have fair punishments or deaths feel like it was my fault. Sometimes I die in Mina and don't really know what I was supposed to do.
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u/Chango99 2d ago
I'm a huge gamer, very competitive and love Souls games.
My best friend has played mostly Animal Crossing but recently played through LoZ The Minish Cap b/c of her husband, so I suggested we try Mina together.
I played the defauit mode.
She played with a lot of mods, especially platforming she's pretty rough at, and still enjoyed the game a lot and we talked through similar challenges.
Funny, she beat the final boss using the Dead Leaf trinket (if you don't move, you turn to a rock and avoid all damage) and a lot of patience.
TL;DR there are ways to make it just the right challenge for you.
She gave up on more difficult challenges/secrets though, like snowball, ring jump, etc.