r/MoralityScaling • u/Hro20k • 22h ago

Morality Ranking Morality of exterminating dangerous breeds of an otherwise tamed species?

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Dangerous to people, and not just having a better build/jaw strength etc. And also this particular breed(s) are the only dog breeds to have a lobby protecting them in the west btw

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17

u/taylrgng 19h ago

people seem to forget that they are animals. i have 2 pitbulls that wouldn't hurt anything other than what i want them to. but i had to make them that way, there are a lot of bad owners, that's not the fault of the animal... that's the fault of the owner.

breeding already has rules and laws, if anything i'm more against the people who maliciously breed dogs to get some funky cosmetics... like pocket pitties, or almost any flat faced dog ever...

17

u/SteveDaPirate 17h ago

Some percentage of Pitts have a communication problem that gets people killed. 

Most dog breeds are effective at communicating (barking, snarling, growling, raised hackles, bared teeth, snapping, etc.) and they generally follow an escalation ladder of telling the person offending them to "fuck off" with increasing intensity before actually attacking. Even most bites are a quick chomp and release to an extremity because they don't really want to fight, they want you to fuck off. 

People that see a snarling Rottie will typically back off, so nobody actually gets hurt.

There are certain Pitts that will skip all that intervening communication and go straight from happy and chill to attack mode with no warning, giving the person involved no opportunity to back off. That's why so many more incidents with Pitts end up as fatalities (particularly among kids).

1

u/ExplanationNo8603 15h ago

They do have warnings signs, they are just shorter and different than most breeds so most people can't read them

4

u/No-Independence9093 15h ago

Interesting fact many of those smooched in faces actually had a purpose when they were first breed. Mainly keeping blood out of their eyes and nose as they comp down on their target.

11

u/VRS302 18h ago

Kissyface never hurt anything either. Until it did.

1

u/rtocelot 18h ago

I've been attacked by a black lab and a German Shepard, different points in my life, never a pit and my mother has had 5 in her life. My sister currently has two, her third and fourth. Any dog has the potential to attack someone. People do need to keep their dogs on leashes though or in some cases.

There are also cases like with Jacqueline Durand where she was attacked by a German Shepard and a Boxer/Pit mix. She went to dog sit for the owners and they attacked her the moment the door opened inflicting asking 800 bite wounds. Thankfully she survived but her life has changed due to it.

I acknowledge that pitfalls can be dangerous but so can others that are highlighted for being well trained.

5

u/KendroNumba4 17h ago

Anecdotal

3

u/CriticismVirtual7603 17h ago

Anecdotal, but also factual

The pits that Michael Vick used for dog fighting were rehabilited into emotional support dogs

There is a lot of negative propaganda that goes into painting pits as violent aggressive dogs, but studies show that they are no more aggressive than poodles, labs, golden retrievers, and chows if all receive the same training.

In fact, the dogs that are seen as being the most aggressive are almost all small breeds. Chihuahuas, dachshunds, and Jack Russels are among the most aggressive, with the most biting incidents among all dog breeds

Train your dog well, and you will not have a problem with your dog unless someone else decides to make it a problem.

1

u/NextRefrigerator6306 16h ago

Even a “well trained” dog wouldn’t leave alone with a small child.

3

u/Hammermancer 15h ago

a well trained owner doesnt leave a dog alone with a small child for the sake of both

children are known to cross boundaries with dogs

and human children are exceptionally fragile, what a dog would do with another dog to correct it can cause serious injury or death. thats not aggression, its correction. if you know anything about animals you know they're not the same

1

u/NextRefrigerator6306 14h ago

We agree with each other. Dog attacks don’t come as a result of “good” or “bad” dogs or “well trained” or “poorly trained” dogs. They result from irresponsible owners.

1

u/CriticismVirtual7603 16h ago

So, the issue is the owners, for leaving the dog alone with the child, not the dog's fault for being left alone with the child?

Thank you for agreeing with me

1

u/KendroNumba4 15h ago

That's crazy because I could leave my cats with a child and everything would be fine

0

u/AdversarysVengeance 7h ago

Nobody is dieing from a Chihuahua bite. It is a mix of the aggression and the ability to actually do harm that makes a pit bull dangerous.

0

u/CriticismVirtual7603 7h ago

"Mix of aggression"

Pit bulls aren't particularly aggressive, which has been the entire point of this conversation.

Chihuahuas have caused severe injury, and were involved in two deaths, but they are mong the most aggressive dog breeds out there.

Train your dog well, and you will not have aggression issues in your dog unless someone wants to make it their problem.

1

u/AdversarysVengeance 6h ago

2 deaths lol there have been close to 100 deaths due to pit bulls in peak years ….

I will agree with you dog training would solve a lot of this but there is a stereotype to people that buy these dogs as much as the dogs themselves. Personally I want the owners of any dangerous animal held accountable for its actions and don’t even blame the dog I blame the idiot that bought the animal.

1

u/CriticismVirtual7603 6h ago

You did say no one dies to Chihuahua bites

Yeah, pitbulls lead all statistics in fatalities, because they were bred to be guard dogs. They are, pound for pound, some of the strongest breeds out there.

But the discussion wasn't about deadly, it was about aggressive.

Pitbulls are not overly aggressive compared to other breeds even comparable in size to them, but they are deadly because they were bred to be deadly.

But, like any other dog, they can be trained to be as aggressive as possible, or not. It is 100% on the owner to make sure they train their dog properly.

1

u/AdversarysVengeance 5h ago

The thing is only a small percentage of the owners of these animals are training them properly so the general public has to suffer for their poor decisions. Looked up those 2 deaths you mentioned and supposedly other dogs were involved in those incidents and not just 1 animal.

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u/[deleted] 15h ago

[deleted]

0

u/Hammermancer 14h ago

Because officially recognized pitbulls are only 10%,
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dog bite reports dont properly categorize the breed, anything from a mastiff to a boxer will be called a pitbull based on the random, unqualafide person calling the dog something,

The traits people are looking for to call something a pit are also the exact same traits your mind would exaggerate when perceiving something in a time of stress with a creature that is effectively a subspecies of wolf (Big mouth, strong)

Those "10% of the dog population" of pitbulls are often owned by the exact wrong people, because they are in the same unfortunate category as Huskies or great pyranese where they are Vanity dogs that are often poorly taken care of by idiots who use them as fashion accessories

The 10% number isnt even well founded, most pitbull owners dont declare their dogs at pitbulls, because of insurance and housing reasons.

-1

u/CriticismVirtual7603 15h ago

More than half of the reported fatalities, yes (of which there are between 30 and 50 a year)

Meanwhile of the 4.5 MILLION attacks per year, the overwhelming majority of them come from smaller breeds, and border collies, Chihuahuas, Jack Russells, and Labradors lead the percentages.

Train your dog well, no matter the breed, and the risk of any kind of attack goes down.

-1

u/Hammermancer 15h ago

Most evidence is ancedotal, the dismissal of ancedotal evidence is peak reddit ignorance

According to the ancedotal evidence arguments, men never get sexually assaulted and the CIA never did anything wrong

1

u/WinterAdvantage3847 10h ago

we have data about male victims of sexual assault. we have ample material historical evidence of and data on the cia’s reign of terror. the plural of “anecdote” is still not data

1

u/taylrgng 18h ago

and what, Kissyface is a greatdane?

you see how quickly this logic falls through?

8

u/SuperiorYammyBoi 18h ago

Yeah, every animal has the capacity for harm. But that doesn’t mean every animal will harm. People who think some breeds are dangerous and need to be put down are insane to me

3

u/VRS302 18h ago

A wonderful family pet of 8 years who ate a kid one day “out of nowhere”. Literately ate.

And you know what breed it was.

2

u/taylrgng 18h ago edited 18h ago

right, and i guess you have all the details for that one?

3

u/Significant_Dare_204 16h ago

I’m sure they do, but since they haven’t replied

https://kfor.com/news/local/family-says-moore-elderly-woman-attacked-killed-by-sons-dog-while-he-was-in-jail/amp/

I love Pitbulls. I’m always on myself. I would never advocate for people to adopt them. I don’t suggest most people get them as puppies even. We’ve become very well aware that the problem isn’t the breed. Its mostly he people that own them

STOP ENCOURAGING THESE PEOPLE TO GET DOGS THEY CANNOT TRAIN AND CANNOT CONTROL. This is not a breed that everybody can safely own.

2

u/VRS302 18h ago

I mean, I didn’t personally investigate the situation so I don’t know it to be true per se, I’m not a detective. It is quite well documented though.

1

u/CriticismVirtual7603 17h ago

Loyalty Scott, the 6 year old that was brutally attacked by the caregiver's Great Dane?

Or Patricia, the 8 month old girl that was eaten by her family's 11 year old German Shepard?

Aiden McGrew, the 2 month old that was killed by a Labrador-Golden Retriever mix?

The 5 month old infant in Volusia County that was attacked by their family's 130 pound Great Dane-husky mix?

I can go on. It happens with many large breeds, not just pits, and beloved breeds like labs, goldies, great danes, and huskies are not going to get the same publicity that a pittie is because the perception of those other breeds is generally positive, while the perception on a pit is generally neutral to negative, and any news that points to them being a violent and aggressive breed is going to draw far more attention.

1

u/gr1mmcr33p3r 16h ago

lol right? His last two comments have openly contradicted himself 😂

0

u/gr1mmcr33p3r 17h ago

Sounds like you left a dog alone with a child long enough for it to eat it and obviously starved the dog? Your straw man made up BS is on 🔥

5

u/VRS302 17h ago

It was an old lady who left the room to go to the kitchen dude. There is no straw man. I am referencing reality.

3

u/Psychological_Use586 12h ago

ABOMINATION. Look at this cursed thing.

2

u/taylrgng 12h ago

and then try to charge people thousands... it's so disgusting.

5

u/NextRefrigerator6306 16h ago

They are still animals though. I would never leave a dog of any breed alone with a toddler or child that can’t defend themselves.

1

u/WestCoastCompanion 14h ago

So true, I don’t even leave my Pomeranian alone with my nephews and don’t until they’re probably 10 or so.

5

u/DeezNutzzzGotEm 19h ago

It's nature and nurture.

They both matter.

5

u/taylrgng 19h ago edited 19h ago

nurture can be a bigger determining factor, i've seen plenty of cases where a family can have an issue with say an aggressive golden doodle or lab/retriever. nature matters, yes. but to put so much focus on it, would be the wrong thing to do in a lot of cases, like i said they are animals at the end of the day. there isn't a complex science behind how they think, the way you'd see with an orca or elephant

you can even use the dog whisper as an example, how do you have entire adults afraid of a chihuahua or terrier? like let's be serious.

2

u/m4cksfx 18h ago

Still, it's a combination of an animal easily strong enough to kill someone and violence-focused enough that it can be quite disemboweled and not let you go before bleeding out. There are some videos of that exact thing happening...

5

u/taylrgng 18h ago

i made another comment addressing the fact that getting rid of pitbulls would do nothing, bad breeding culture will just produce another "killer" breed. you guys are focused on the wrong thing...

you are looking at a symptoms instead of the virus...

but you guys won't understand that until every breed is dead...

you think it'll just end with pitbulls?

0

u/m4cksfx 18h ago

We'd likely at least get a few decades without a new one being made. They really are way over the top, even compared to other "strong angry" breeds.

3

u/taylrgng 18h ago

you are so uninformed... no, the next dogs would be rottweilers, they are super popular amongst the bad cultures. then shepherds, then american bullies...

you think people don't talk about these kinds of things??? i'm not even surprised people like you think this narrowly...

1

u/gr1mmcr33p3r 17h ago

Oh, you mean Rottweilers AGAIN, because they were already a whipping post, along with GSD’s, Dobermans……

It’s almost like when dogs aren’t fashionable, or so inbred they’re puppy sized for eternity people tend to treat them badly

-1

u/m4cksfx 18h ago

Dude, have you even looked a bit into those stats? And I mean things like breed population sizes vs mild/serious attacks?... They aren't that big of an issue, by far.

3

u/taylrgng 18h ago

because they have pitties...

now we've gone full circle

0

u/No-Alternative4612 18h ago

... then you ban the offending new dangerous breed. We're perfectly comfortable banning people from owning the vast majority of animals as pets, nothing says we can't be a little choosey with dogs.

2

u/taylrgng 18h ago

so... don't solve the issue...?

1

u/Nail_C 18h ago

My pitbulls Lucifer and Hades are the most adorable, harmless furballs you’ve ever seen.

Wouldn’t harm a fly… Unless I tell them to spill the blood of the innocent, of course.

-1

u/KendroNumba4 17h ago

I think that a permit should be required to own a dog heavier than, let's say, 50 pounds. It's not cool that people with no training whatsoever can own organic killing machines.

0

u/ConsiderationFun5262 16h ago

Chiwawas are worse those should be banned from breeding and importing and owning

2

u/KendroNumba4 16h ago

Lmk when these canine squirrels start killing people

-1

u/ConsiderationFun5262 16h ago

They already have then they act all innocent and get away with it

-1

u/taylrgng 17h ago

great idea... now who's policing that?

3

u/BiGG_BObEk 16h ago

It doesn’t have to be actively policed. If it’s forbidden and you do it anyways, the moment you’re reported it’s game over (or at least should be).

The exact same thing is working completely fine in Germany, although there aren’t that many other things working fine in Germany anymore.

1

u/KendroNumba4 17h ago

Who's policing driver's licenses, permits to sell alcohol/food? It'd be some group of people like everything else in life idk