r/MoralityScaling • u/Hro20k • 18h ago
Morality Ranking Morality of exterminating dangerous breeds of an otherwise tamed species?
Dangerous to people, and not just having a better build/jaw strength etc. And also this particular breed(s) are the only dog breeds to have a lobby protecting them in the west btw
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u/cloudit30569 12h ago
If you've seen the show Tiger King you'll know that the wrong type of person is always attracted to owning the toughest, meanest animal they can legally get their hands on. Pitbulls are ridiculously strong for their size. People of associating with that power in a dumb way. The rest is plays itself out the moment the dog gets loose.
In my parent's neighborhood one of these pitbulls managed to escape it's home and was prowling the neighborhood until it found a lady walking her Chihuahua. The Chihuahua got ripped in half.
My ex co-worker owned two pitbulls. He said he's the only one allowed to feed them. He loved the way he raised them as guard dogs. "Anyone that's not family is dead" is what he would proudly say.
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u/Otterbotanical 10h ago
THANK YOU!! For the same reason that reckless, impulsive, YOUNG people are the ones trying to buy muscle cars and speeding like Vin Diesel, it is reckless, impulsive, and dangerous PEOPLE that choose to get a powerful dog. They are the ones that are mishandling the dog breed and actively creating the negative sentiment around them
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u/CarmeloSmokesWeed 9h ago
their handling doesn’t change the capability of how much harm it can cause.
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u/Otterbotanical 9h ago
After you eliminate pitbulls, all of the shitty humans that want to pick a bullish, violent, big dog to look intimidating WILL move on to the very next most violent-looking dog to get. And they will be reckless and shitty with their training. And we will immediately be right back here.
It is not the dog, it is the shitty fucking humans
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u/CarmeloSmokesWeed 9h ago
fair point
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u/CarmeloSmokesWeed 9h ago
just because some could be responsible with a rifle doesn’t mean we should allow everyone to get one. Pitbulls capability to cause harm is just way too big. Irresponsible pet to own imo
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u/Kobold_the_Kobbler 5h ago
At that point, its an owner problem not an animal problem put more restrictions on the ability to get the animal like maybe specialized courses or a license. I dont think its the dogs fault idiots like to use them as a symbol of toughness.
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u/AdversarysVengeance 1h ago
Yeah stories like this disgust me and the reason I hate pitbulls. They are very common and most people know at least one person that has experienced this.
You aren’t legally allowed to own a lot of dangerous animals because people in general are irresponsible idiots.
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u/AbyssWankerArtorias 15h ago
The issue is that when pitbulls become aggressive, it's a far, far worse issue than many other breeds, then combine that with how popular of a breed they are. There's your issue.
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u/ASentientRailgun 11h ago
People pick a dog breed to decide is violent, people who want violent dogs keep that breed, and then have violent dogs.
German Shepards used to have articles written about them like this.
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u/TBARb_D_D 17h ago
I won’t say pitbulls are the problem when it is always owner who is responsible for training dog and keeping it out of situations where it can bite someone but looking at statistics maybe we should consider not letting any more pitbull breeding
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u/Huntsman077 10h ago
I mean there’s a couple issues with these stats.
Firstly, a pitbull isn’t one breed. It’s several different breeds and combinations of breeds.
Second pitbulls are the most common type of dog, because it can refer to over half a dozen different breeds and any dog that has any of these breeds mixed in.
Thirdly it is very common for dogs to be misidentified as pit bulls. A majority of dogs labeled at “pit” actually have very little or zero pit bull DNA.
https://bestfriends.org/pet-care-resources/pit-bull-myths-and-facts
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u/aghastamok 15h ago
Pitbulls aren't the problem anymore, it's the pitbull lobby.
There's four broad classes of people that wind up with a pitbull:
people who want it because it's an intimidating breed due to its combat effectiveness
people who want it because they heard it's an easy-to-handle nanny dog
people who wind up with one because they're so common
people who understand dogs, their behaviors, and the differences between breeds and have selected a pitbull specifically for characteristics outside their combat effectiveness.
The fourth one is the only group that should own pitbulls but they're easily the least common type. The "nanny dog" thing is a real trait, they can be really loyal and protective if well-handled. But most pitty owners have no idea what it takes to own a dangerous dog - partially because they've been convinced that they don't own a dangerous dog. That's why the stats are so high and you hear about the occasional 4-year-old getting shredded. The dog is exhibiting dangerous behaviors that no-one knows to look for, and people get hurt.
Keep Pitties, fine. But license them like every other big dumb dangerous animal.
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u/Dominoze56 12h ago
No, the “Nanny” trait is completely made up. It was a lie cooked up by a breeder to get rid of dogs used for bloodsport. Loyal and protective dogs, yes but under no circumstances should they be “nannies.” These are dogs bred to hunt and they need early training to be adoptable before instincts take them over.
I speak as a pitbull owner.
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u/aghastamok 11h ago
I agree with you. I guess it comes down to how you define it, the phrase has worn Down in my vocabulary over the years maybe.
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u/TBARb_D_D 15h ago
Well… I get what you say but if this specific breed is very good at physical attacks maybe we should add a layer of restrictions so 1, 2 and 3 groups of people can’t get it?
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u/aghastamok 15h ago
That's what I meant when I said
But license them like every other big dumb dangerous animal.
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u/colefunction 17h ago
Yep, it’s not even about the owners anymore, they’re a man made breed and with these stats we should stop breeding them.
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u/Marvoide 14h ago
Yea data gets like that when “pitbull” itself is a blanket term. Like damn theres atleast 4 breeds that come in my head when I hear pitbull - american bully, johnson bulldog, american pitbull terrior, staffordshire terrior.
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u/New-Objective7803 15h ago
Woah, no way!!! A breed which is preferred by shitty owners that want aggressive dogs is higher on the aggressive dog list?
It must be the dog breed itself! I can't think of any other possible explanation!!!
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u/Lolmanmagee 12h ago
They were literally bred for the sole purpose of winning pit fights.
They are combat animals through and through, with no amount of explanations being able to justify the obvious statistical anomaly.
Like, it’s not just “oh they are 10x more likely to attack.”
It’s by a truly absurd margin.
They make up less than 5% of the population, while being responsible for more than 90% of fatal attacks.
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u/Psychological_Use586 8h ago
It's more like 20% of dogs. There's more pits out there than you think.
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u/Lolmanmagee 8h ago
You are likely thinking of the amount that are in shelters and such.
About 30%~ of shelter dogs are pit bulls iirc As they are extremely likely to be abandoned by owners due to their violence.
However, as a percentage of the overall dog population. they are extremely insignificant
It’s more like 6%~ after re checking google.
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u/m4cksfx 15h ago
And you say that it's just the owners's fault that they're this stupidly overrepresented in the data?
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u/dspisayuss 13h ago
Since you seem to like statistics I got a crazy statistic for you regarding race and crime lmao
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u/m4cksfx 12h ago
Are they human beings whose problems should be addressed and fixed instead of being prevented from having children, and not inherently violent dangerous animals, then yeah.
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u/dspisayuss 11h ago
you can fix an animal too without putting it down lol.
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u/m4cksfx 11h ago
And I'm not advocating for putting them down, but for stopping and banning the breeding of.
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u/AdversarysVengeance 3h ago
Breed attracts irresponsible people. The breed should be treated as a weapon and people held responsible for its actions if they own one.
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u/cybersecuritythrow 11h ago
I find it weird that all these pro-pitbull arguments devolve into "if you're in favor of banning pitbulls, you must also want to ban black people" tf
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u/Full-Tomorrow9889 8h ago
It doesn't help that people who want to ban them do the 13/50 meme which is a racist dog whistle.
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u/MoistExcrement1989 7h ago
I’ve seen this argument. So we’re equating humans to 4 legged animals. Disgusting.
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u/Significant_Breath38 11h ago
I have never seen that and I'm on pitbull subreddits.
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u/tauntua2ndtyme 10h ago
Ive def seen the " if you dislike pitbulls ur racist"
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u/Significant_Breath38 10h ago
And I've def seen "the earth is flat". The internet is full of crazy people, that doesn't mean any idea is a majority opinion.
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u/cybersecuritythrow 10h ago
of course not. Poor / inflammatory choice of words above by me. I just mean that in almost all pitbull discourse threads, I see some commenters eventually making racial analogies.
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u/Significant_Breath38 10h ago
Yeah, so it's not even the conversation degrading into race stuff. It's some people wanting to make the connection.
Some people talking about it != Everyone talking about it.
That's the kind of thinking that actually crazy people try to prey upon to get you to believe their bullshit
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u/Sad_Elk1943 11h ago
Who tf is saying that lmao....i think its more of an attempt of a redditor to conflate an argument
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u/WestCoastCompanion 10h ago
There’s something similar implied directly below, though it doesn’t specify which race…
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u/AdversarysVengeance 3h ago
Argument needs to turned to criminally going after the owners for being irresponsible with what is a weapon with a mind of its own.
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u/AdversarysVengeance 1h ago
I also think it’s funny that people that want to ban guns because they’re dangerous seem to regularly defend pit bulls.
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u/the0nry0 17h ago
Extermination- immoral. Not breeding any more until the breed extincts naturally- moral.
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u/Useful_Jelly_2915 2h ago
I mean sometimes it makes sense. I don’t think it should be legal to breed pugs anymore. They are bread for aesthetic reasons and the traits they are bread for directly cause them to have immense health risks.
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u/FactBackground9289 5h ago
Exterminating? No. Stopping breeding breeds that are effectively just animal abuse (e.g. pugs, chihuahuas, munchkins)? Yes
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u/biggins9227 13h ago
So we can accept that Labs have s natural tendency to retrieve because of breeding, that herding breads have an instinct to herd because of breeding, but we have to ignore that pits have a high tendency towards violence because of breeding?
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u/HappyAku800 12h ago
People have a hard time framing this correctly. Yes, a good owner can tame them, but there will always be bad owners which will lead to pitbull attacks with severe injuries to death, particularly to children. It is irresponsible to keep perpetuating this scenario.
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u/Jedyates 13h ago
I would rather destroy the whole breed, but thats not fair.
Just put them on the dangerous animal list. Require a licence, tests to get one and regular check-ups. Zero tolerance for anything outside of that.
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u/AdversarysVengeance 3h ago
Agreed 100% there is a lot of dangerous weapons in the world the difference is ensuring that people are held accountable if they make the decision of owning one.
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u/No-Independence9093 10h ago
Bull dogs where breed to go against full grown bulls. Great Danes where breed war dogs, fighting humans horses and other dogs. Many Mastiffs where breed to smash in the front line before biting. Several terriors were also breed for blood sport. Yet these dogs are never the topic of discussion when violent dog breeds get brought up. In fact more people are more worried about the Bill dogs ability to breath than a violent streak and Great Danes are advertised to be more likely to lick you to death than to actually hurt you. It doesn't matter the breed what matters is the training.
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u/Lower_Cockroach2432 13h ago
It's as moral as bringing them into existence to begin with. The dog eugenics ship sailed 10s of thousands of years ago, when bold tame wolves gave up independence to eat our scraps.
If breeding good traits into dogs is acceptable through selective breeding then leading a breed to die out by preventing them from breeding is equally acceptable. These are equivalent statements.
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u/RajoRaj 16h ago
Dog racism
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u/m4cksfx 15h ago
Literally ~10x more aggressive than the average for dogs.
They should not exist. Maybe not an extermination, but a total ban on breeding them works be nice.
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u/Huntsman077 10h ago
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u/m4cksfx 10h ago
https://www.reddit.com/r/BanPitBulls/s/mVhLzfrref
slightly better supported by actual data. I'll link the research I mentioned in my previous comment if I manage to find it again.
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u/Pale-Conversation872 11h ago
can i just say i don’t give a shit about being called a “dog racist” and this whole argument is so strange to me? racism dehumanizes people. dogs are literally not human. this is like saying eating chicken is cannibalism because if it was people instead of chickens it’d be cannibalism. if anything this isn’t a racism question but an animal rights question. i don’t even have strong opinions on pitbulls, i could probably be swayed either way. this argument is just so weird? it feels like using black people (since usually the comparison is to black people) as a gotcha instead of like… people? the argument is literally giving more humanity to dogs than black people, lol
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u/Mysterious_Donut_702 14h ago
I'm with Satan on this one.
Pitfalls from loving homes are fat, gentle and like belly rubs.
Too many people raise them in puppy mills, or treat them like the biggest, toughest guard dog they could find.
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u/taylrgng 15h ago
people act like getting rid of pitties will solve the issue... bad breeding would just breed another "bad" dog breed.
you have to get rid of the culture, not the result of the culture...
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u/WowIsThisMyPage 13h ago
Pitbulls are the ones who end up in shelters, if you want to adopt and home a dog from a shelter it will probably be a pit bull.
We should stop the overbreeding, but no we should not eliminate them en masse.
They’re an incredibly intelligent and sweet breed if they’re in the right hands.
In the wrong hands they’re dangerous, but so are cars and guns and those are also too easy for people to get their hands on, so we need to look at the bigger picture here too
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u/Vast-Breakfast-1201 12h ago
It isn't about what someone could do
The chart of what dogs main people by quantity is an exponential falloff with pits at the top.
It is never ever ever the victims fault when that happens. So morally speaking - you don't eliminate pits, but, you need to regulate them, or make it illegal to breed them. Because the wlternative is harm to humans. The dogs have no rights here legally morally or ethically speaking.
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u/RickyTheRickster 8h ago
I have trust issues with pits, but they are extremely sweet dogs, I’ve met people with wolf dogs not huskies but actual wolf mixes and they although are a little intimidating are still very sweet dogs, it’s about the person and how they treat the dog, a lot of breeds need to be treated differently, you can’t raise a husky like you would a chihuahua, which are also unfortunately tend to be raised neglectfully, very few animals even wild ones are hostile, this includes bears, well some polar bears especially can out to kill humans so, but black bears are friends, it’s all about who’s raising them not the breed.
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u/skeletonpaul08 7h ago
So I don’t hate pits, my favorite dog ever was a pit, she was a rescue that had suffered abuse but went her whole life without hurting a fly. One thing I remember is playing tug of war with her and being genuinely shocked at how much power the elderly small female could generate. I was a healthy strong 25 year old that was almost 5 times her size and I remember thinking about how much damage this dog could do If we weren’t just playing.
I’ve seen the most docile and friendly golden retriever get confused and scared and lash out and bite a kid. The kid got scared and cried a bit and the owners came over and calmed the dog down and they were playing together again after a few minutes. If that dog had been a pit bull it could’ve ripped the kids throat out before anyone knew what happened. For a less hypothetical scenario, my mom knew someone who’s childhood friend had a pit, the pit was always friendly with him until one day he was wrestling with his friend in the back yard, they were getting a little rough and the dog didn’t understand that they were playing and attacked, he obviously lived but he needed over 100 stitches and had permanent scars on his leg and face, that wouldn’t have happened if it was a border collie.
Like I said, I don’t hate pits, and I think it would be morally wrong to execute all of them, but I do think we should stop breeding them as pets except maybe for extremely specific situations. I’d say the same thing if we domesticated cats that were any bigger than a current house cat, most of them would probably be fine but it only takes one bad incident, an animal that is capable of that level of violence should not be a pet.
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u/taylrgng 15h ago
people seem to forget that they are animals. i have 2 pitbulls that wouldn't hurt anything other than what i want them to. but i had to make them that way, there are a lot of bad owners, that's not the fault of the animal... that's the fault of the owner.
breeding already has rules and laws, if anything i'm more against the people who maliciously breed dogs to get some funky cosmetics... like pocket pitties, or almost any flat faced dog ever...
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u/SteveDaPirate 14h ago
Some percentage of Pitts have a communication problem that gets people killed.
Most dog breeds are effective at communicating (barking, snarling, growling, raised hackles, bared teeth, snapping, etc.) and they generally follow an escalation ladder of telling the person offending them to "fuck off" with increasing intensity before actually attacking. Even most bites are a quick chomp and release to an extremity because they don't really want to fight, they want you to fuck off.
People that see a snarling Rottie will typically back off, so nobody actually gets hurt.
There are certain Pitts that will skip all that intervening communication and go straight from happy and chill to attack mode with no warning, giving the person involved no opportunity to back off. That's why so many more incidents with Pitts end up as fatalities (particularly among kids).
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u/No-Independence9093 11h ago
Interesting fact many of those smooched in faces actually had a purpose when they were first breed. Mainly keeping blood out of their eyes and nose as they comp down on their target.
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u/VRS302 14h ago
Kissyface never hurt anything either. Until it did.
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u/rtocelot 14h ago
I've been attacked by a black lab and a German Shepard, different points in my life, never a pit and my mother has had 5 in her life. My sister currently has two, her third and fourth. Any dog has the potential to attack someone. People do need to keep their dogs on leashes though or in some cases.
There are also cases like with Jacqueline Durand where she was attacked by a German Shepard and a Boxer/Pit mix. She went to dog sit for the owners and they attacked her the moment the door opened inflicting asking 800 bite wounds. Thankfully she survived but her life has changed due to it.
I acknowledge that pitfalls can be dangerous but so can others that are highlighted for being well trained.
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u/KendroNumba4 14h ago
Anecdotal
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u/CriticismVirtual7603 13h ago
Anecdotal, but also factual
The pits that Michael Vick used for dog fighting were rehabilited into emotional support dogs
There is a lot of negative propaganda that goes into painting pits as violent aggressive dogs, but studies show that they are no more aggressive than poodles, labs, golden retrievers, and chows if all receive the same training.
In fact, the dogs that are seen as being the most aggressive are almost all small breeds. Chihuahuas, dachshunds, and Jack Russels are among the most aggressive, with the most biting incidents among all dog breeds
Train your dog well, and you will not have a problem with your dog unless someone else decides to make it a problem.
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u/NextRefrigerator6306 12h ago
They are still animals though. I would never leave a dog of any breed alone with a toddler or child that can’t defend themselves.
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u/WestCoastCompanion 10h ago
So true, I don’t even leave my Pomeranian alone with my nephews and don’t until they’re probably 10 or so.
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u/DeezNutzzzGotEm 15h ago
It's nature and nurture.
They both matter.
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u/taylrgng 15h ago edited 15h ago
nurture can be a bigger determining factor, i've seen plenty of cases where a family can have an issue with say an aggressive golden doodle or lab/retriever. nature matters, yes. but to put so much focus on it, would be the wrong thing to do in a lot of cases, like i said they are animals at the end of the day. there isn't a complex science behind how they think, the way you'd see with an orca or elephant
you can even use the dog whisper as an example, how do you have entire adults afraid of a chihuahua or terrier? like let's be serious.
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u/m4cksfx 15h ago
Still, it's a combination of an animal easily strong enough to kill someone and violence-focused enough that it can be quite disemboweled and not let you go before bleeding out. There are some videos of that exact thing happening...
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u/taylrgng 14h ago
i made another comment addressing the fact that getting rid of pitbulls would do nothing, bad breeding culture will just produce another "killer" breed. you guys are focused on the wrong thing...
you are looking at a symptoms instead of the virus...
but you guys won't understand that until every breed is dead...
you think it'll just end with pitbulls?
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u/WestCoastCompanion 10h ago
If we started holding people more accountable for harm caused by their dogs this wouldn’t be a problem anymore. Have whatever kind of dog you want, but if it mauls a child it’s your ass in jail.
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u/Tacti_Kel_Nuke 2h ago
Is immoral to exterminate.
Pitbulls should require special permits or something because so many stupid people own them, violent people. I have seen so many stupid kids getting pitbulls to just look thought and usually those are the ones who get their dogs "escape"
And also the aggressive traits of them should be breed out.
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u/SoyDusty 1h ago
I’m a big dark skinned Black man with a lab/pit mix. We’ll be hated forever no matter what we do. You all can hate us and we’ll keep on smiling and laughing.
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u/nose_poke 13h ago
Immoral. One-size-fits-all approaches are rarely moral, IMO.
Responsible owners can safely keep powerful dogs.
I have a pitbull / Akita mix. I didn't know this ahead of time because I adopted her from the shelter. She is very sweet with people. She is not to be trusted around other dogs except for her two male housemates. I manage her accordingly -- secure fence, never off leash, no dog parks, muzzle if necessary. I am also strong enough to physically restrain her if necessary.
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u/requiemguy 13h ago
They're called shitbulls for a reason.
I'm just at the point where the owner of a pitbull that harms or kills a person or pet gets sentenced to prison on first degree murder charges.
Only pitbull owners, because fuck em, that's why.
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u/Bombacladman 12h ago
Yeah there are different types of weapoms too, some are safe enough to be sold to the public, RPG's and flame throwers not so much.
The exact same analogy applies to dog breeds.
Some are fun, some are temperamental but small enough that they dont pose a danger. however, there are a few that just snap and attack, have the temperament of a wasp, and are large enough to cause damage.
Why do you think the Army and the police never ever have Pitbulls??? Physically they have fantastic characteristics for the police. But their character makes them very hard to control
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u/Babebutters 7h ago
We should be urging people to stop breeding pitbulls.
Just the amount of pitbulls in animal shelters alone is a good enough reason.
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u/ZukoTheGod 16h ago
There's several breeds of dogs that look like a pitbull and I promise none of you would be able to point it out correctly, you all just are too ignorant to do any research, it's very sad
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u/Psychological_Use586 8h ago
Generally when people say pitbull they don't specifically mean the APBT.
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u/Seer0997 17h ago
Imo, immoral. Don't blame the dog, blame the owner. If you can't control your dog, you shouldn't have one.
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u/DepartmentChemical93 17h ago
Some dogs are inbred and mentally deformed by birth.
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u/Seer0997 17h ago
What does that have to do with irresponsible owners and pitbulls? Are pitbulls a victim of this?
Genuine question since I'm curious.
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u/Huge_Entrepreneur636 16h ago edited 16h ago
The guy who literally created Pitbulls and popularized them, couldn't stop them from attacking and mauling the face of his niece. The breed has such a high chance of attacking others, that either the dogs themselves are fucked in the head or they only attract the worst owners ever.
Edited for clarity.
Correction: John P. Colby is the founder of the American Pitbull. His Pitbulls mauled a young girl and boy in the neighborhood and then later killed his nephew.
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u/New-Objective7803 15h ago
Hmm. I wonder what he was training them to do and using them for?
All that information but you left out he was abusing them and using them for dogfighting?!?!?!
Almost like abuse creates violent animals (pit bull, human, or otherwise)
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u/Aggressive_Umpire_21 13h ago
Pitbulls are the absolute worst and need to be banned full stop,
No I don't care about the one or two pitbulls you personally known
Having had to sit in a hospital and be told a child will need over 70 stitches to the face because of one of those creatures has solidified my view
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u/WillDBlake 18h ago
Inherited evilness in dogs doesn't exist
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u/Huge_Entrepreneur636 16h ago
Arguing against statistics and evolution. Traits can be inherited. And Pitbulls are orders of magnitude more likely to attack humans than any other breed.
Only other explanation is that shitty people always get a Pitbull. Like the breed is a magnet for the worst owners. Maybe someone out has done the statistical analysis for this.
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u/pervertedmortician 15h ago
A pitbull mauling a child isnt evil
Just like a lion hunting a gazelle
Shitbulls need to be banned and breeding them should be a crime
Fighting dogs shouldn’t be pets, just lions and tigers and hyenas shouldn’t need pets
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u/Negativus_Prime 18h ago
Chihuahua, but are they even truly dogs? (Yes they are and it's still because of bad owners and breeders those little guys got the stereotype)
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u/Wild-Tale-257 16h ago
I had 2 chihuahua. One will run and hide at the sound of my sniffle, the other will charge at Cosmos, the world eater to try and take a bite out of it ankle.
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u/CaptainPattPotato 14h ago
I’ve never owned a Chihuahua, but every one of them I’ve met has been fine. Often a little skittish and timid, which frankly seems fine given how tiny they are, sometimes rather vocal, but never particularly aggressive. I’m sure that some are; it seems to be a stereotype a lot of people have of them anyways. But frankly, they’re in the opposite situation as pit bulls. I struggle to imagine the worst-trained, most aggressive chihuahua doing any meaningful damage with those tiny jaws.
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u/pervertedmortician 15h ago
An aggressive chihuahua and an aggressive pitbull can do wildly different damage
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u/colefunction 17h ago
Exterminate - immoral
Stop breeding them - completely moral
Anyone who feels otherwise should check out r/BanPitBulls
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u/ZukoTheGod 16h ago
A sub dedicated to hating one specific thing is a good example? So the subs that are against white people is a good example to explain their behavior? Or an Asian or black hating sub?
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u/LoneRedditor123 9h ago
3 times I've been attacked by a Pitbull in my life. Three.
2 belonged to owners who were sociopaths. One was a soft-spoken girl who is one of the kindest people I've ever met. Sometimes being a good dog owner isn't good enough. These dog breeds are just dangerous.
I've had enough experience with them already. If a Pitbull ever comes near me again, you can bet your ass I'm taking out that baseball bat.
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u/Prize_Ad7765 17h ago
obviously immoral, the pitbull is the most lied about animal in the world
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u/centurion762 17h ago
When a Labrador Retriever retrieves something, “It’s just instinctual.”
When a Pointer points, “It’s just doing what it’s bred to do.”
When a Pit attacks and kills, “It’s how it was raised!”2
u/spookysaph 16h ago
Labradors can also attack and kill if they were trained to
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u/Electrical_Truth_160 15h ago
I always liken this to people... if you have a known group of people who commit a higher rate of crimes than others, do we punish all of them due to a seemingly inherent characteristic of their people, we don't. I have met some of the nicest dogs which were Pitbulls, very soft and great with kids and other dogs. Some can be bad and have the ability to do serious damage, some are poorly bred and some are poorly trained. Morally, I say it is wrong to ban/kill dogs based on their breed alone, it should be tested per dog. As we currently do for people.
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u/Anonymous-Apprentice 10h ago
I think certain breeds need to be sterilized because they are all destined to pass on a mixture of genes that will only cause suffering for all of their descendants. I am talking about Pugs.
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u/ExperienceRoutine321 8h ago
Valid. I had a pug and I loved that dog. Sweetest lil guy ya ever met and he died at 8 years old because he was severely unhealthy. It’s cruel to keep breeding them.
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u/RickyTheRickster 8h ago
The breed itself isn’t the issue, it’s the inbreeding, people need to stop pure breeding breeds so much, incest is bad, pugs are like that one European royal family
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u/Anonymous-Apprentice 7h ago
that one European royal family
The Habsburgs is what you're probably thinking, though most royal families were inbred iirc.
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u/CatgoesM00 11h ago edited 11h ago
I think That’s a bad example. dogs and animals aren’t people.
There’s a long list of animals that are different and born with certain traits. I’d argue that breed of dog has not been fully domesticated or something similar because it’s very clear those dogs can have inherent traits that make them dangerous.
You can train lions and bears to be friendly at a circus, still doesn’t mean they Can’t snap and destroy you in a split second.
We have this caution and collective understanding with certain animals but we can’t be honest with ourselves about the pitbulls.
Just jump on over to ban pit bulls and watch endless videos and try to say the same thing your saying now. Not all of these dogs had horrible trainers or a bad environment, and yet they are still inherently violent. It’s seems to me at least it a nature thing, not a nurture. So we should proceed with caution.
And personally to be fair, I should add I think there ability to kill and do harm is more of the issue rather then the breed, but that doesn’t dismiss the breed all together. I think they might go hand in hand.
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u/Prior_Pickle1758 10h ago
if you apply this logic to people you’re a psycho lmao; breed and ethnicity (or whatever other grouping you’re going for) are not analogous whatsoever and it’s dehumanizing to make this kind of argument
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u/No-Alternative4612 14h ago
So why can't I own a grizzly bear as a pet, assuming I can afford it? Flufflykins wouldn't hurt a fly, you can't punish him and me for the actions of other bears.
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u/AdversarysVengeance 3h ago edited 1h ago
If the dog that you made the poor decision of buying hurts someone you should suffer the consequences of that dog’s actions.
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u/Fast-Front-5642 18h ago
Pitbulls are neither the most physically capable nor the most common breed involved in attacks either by total or per capita.
The only thing they top out on is the number of fatalities but only after the 80s. Prior to that they were not considered the dangerous dog breed. The so called "dangerous dog breed" changes over time based on what is popular with gangs and thugs. And the majority of pitbull attacks and subsequently fatalities are tied to gang/thug owners. Because they raise the dog with hate and violence, ofc it turns out aggressive and dangerous.
Exterminating based on breed is just dog racism. Racism is immoral. Murder based on race is immoral.
Go fuck yourself OP
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u/Rawr171 18h ago edited 18h ago
These people be talking about per capita attacks and fatalities and use that data to immediately push dog eugenics and breed bans and then (rightfully) immediately see the fallacy when people use the exact same argument in human populations and call them out when they are made
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u/johnnybeesknees 17h ago
They are extremely different categories and shouldn't be compared. It's extremely far off from human "races" vs dog breeds. I'm not condoning anything particular about dog breeds. But comparing it to race in humans is a massive categorical error that belies an extreme misunderstanding of the topics. There is no reason to conflate them. It's extremely pointless and does nothing but make the conversation less coherent.
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u/Rawr171 17h ago
I think it can be useful to identify obvious logical fallacies. Like the per capita incidents = breed inherently more dangerous fallacy. People are trained and will instantly identify this fallacy when applied to humans, but fail to identify and fall for it when applied to dog breeds. It's so easy to understand for humans how per capita is not the sole authority on whether something is inherently bad and things like culture, expectations, societal perceptions/expectations, and other factors play a role to paint a complex picture, but if the conversation is about pitt bulls someone brings up per capita rates as a conversation ender, says this is "all we need to know" to justify exterminating the breed and that nothing else even needs to be considered and there is no more complex picture and you're a terrible person for even suggesting the conversation could be more nuanced.
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u/_InfiniteU_ 17h ago
I have a pitty and a cat and a bunny. The cat is more vicious than the pitty whole may kill you by drowning you in slobber from kisses. She is the sweetest think you will ever witness. Here is her snuggling a small baby of a friend
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u/Wacky_X_Swacky 15h ago
Not a pitbull
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u/JakeJortled 11h ago
So get rid of dogs that cops use to attack people. That shit’s gruesome and cruel
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u/Jake_Corona 9h ago
I think it would be most moral to just not breed them anymore. Let the remaining ones die naturally.
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u/CaptainMacAlfie 7h ago
The issue isn't the breed itself it's poorly done breeding that doesn't account for temperament so you do sometimes get pitbulls that are aggressive (happens with all breeds to some extent though), a lot of people train pitbulls to be guard dogs but don't actually train them well and don't keep control of them, and they're one of the most common breeds to end up in shelters because people get on and realize it's too big and energetic for them to control and they don't have time for real training.
My family has a pit mix who is the sweetest baby and I don't even think would bite in an emergency situation but we still respect she's strong dog and we try to socialize her as much as possible and train her as much as we can which is what a person should do with any dog.
I'm currently in college to be a vet tech and that's meant working with all sorts of dog breeds for the last couple years and I think I've only run into one actually aggressive pitbull. The breeds I did see more aggressive cases of were labs, German shepherds, rottweilers, and the one I saw most often as doodle breeds. My vet nearly got bit by 4 or 5 different doodle mixes because people think they're angels that don't need training. We've also had some very well trained doodles who were angels so it really is based on breeding and training ultimately and not strictly just because a dog is a certain breed
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u/BIG_KOOK_ENERGY 7h ago
You’d need to understand breeding characteristics and predatory sequences in dogs to have an informed opinion on this. Most commenters have gone the anthropomorphism route
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u/xzelethor 6h ago
Pitbulls are products of their environment. Some of the owners who get pitbulls just don’t know how to train dogs so they don’t.
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u/Able_Zucchini_1469 6h ago
If we are going to do this... we need to apply the se logic to pedophiles, rapists and murderers or it is discrimination.
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u/DanTheAdequate 6h ago
Of the threats to overall health and safety, this ranks very low. We'd save 1,000x as many lives by making drivers' licenses moderately harder to get.
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u/DifferenceLoud505 5h ago
Immoral to exterminate an entire breed, but moral to just stop breeding them and let nature take its course (the same should be done for brachycephalic breeds). The issue is that bad people breed them for bad things, i.e. select characteristics that make them dangerous, and bad people buy and keep them because they have these dangerous qualities so they can intimidate others or use them for dog fighting. They often don't train or socialize them and keep them locked up. When they finally get loose and bite a child, that's when laws start getting enacted. People call it unfair, but catastrophic maulings do decline after removing "dangerous" breeds from communities.
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u/morethanWun 5h ago
So many worse good for nothing dog breeds than an American pit bull terrier. Mfers don’t even know that’s wha they are called. Couple different versions around the world
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u/foxonafrozenlake 4h ago
If you look at dog attacks in general bully breeds aren't anymore dangerous than other popular breeds.
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u/AdversarysVengeance 3h ago edited 1h ago
The problem is the idiots that own them and them being held responsible for what they do. If every time one of these animals hurt someone or someone else’s animal the owner went to prison I would imagine it wouldn’t happen daily.
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u/Writeitout323 40m ago
Everyone that has a pet should be required to have it fixed unless you are a certified breeder. Any puppies sold should have to be fixed unless its to another certified breeder. It would save governments lots of money and fix most of the excessive breeding issues.
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u/Hammermancer 11h ago
i have a fifteen year old pitbull that only ever used his teeth once, and that was to pin an intact female so he could do the deed, which is what dogs do
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u/Several_Bee_6896 9h ago
This is gonna get me massive hate but pitbulls were made to be fighting dogs (no the nanny dog stuff is just a load of crap) , it is in their instinct to be aggressive and just like with tigers and other wild animals you can raise them with how much affection but their instincts are not gonna change . The difference is if pitbulls were released to the wild they'd be invasive species but they're too dangerous for human society so I'm sorry but I'm saying this as a dog fan . We gotta put them out
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u/SoyDusty 1h ago
Dude, this is Reddit and the online world, people hate Pitbulls online. Don’t let anyone try to tell you otherwise.
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u/Aktaii 18h ago
Very moral, fk pitbulls
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u/indigoletdown 18h ago
The most gentle dogs I’ve ever met have been pit bulls. Not to mention you’re probably just saying “pit bulls” when you mean “bully breeds” because most people can’t even tell the difference. Immoral. I throw tomatoes at your take.
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u/Original-Shape-5147 16h ago
We jail and even kill psychopaths when they act violently even though they didnt ask to be born that way. Actions matter, and the results are jail or death. With dogs its just death.
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u/hleghe 16h ago
Exterminating then en-masse is immoral when you can just stop breeding them for the most part instead to have the same effect? Though this assumes you can indeed do that
Similar deal with pugs tbh