r/MoralityScaling • u/Gugarabelo • 6h ago
Morality Ranking morality of the domestic meat pig?
whats the morality of creating a creature that can't think or feel anything, purely for consumption? and keeping the cycle going for generations?
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u/skeletonpaul08 6h ago
Logically this makes sense morally if it replaces the current farming system we have with pigs, but something about it feels deeply and primally wrong. I think we should go with logic over gut instincts, but I’m not going to pretend like this doesn’t feel like the most fucked up way of playing god.
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u/Tristaaan 5h ago
When u think about, hasnt the way we’ve bred plants and animals to be more docile/productive; is this just the theoretical logical end to that pursuit?
Idk, this an interesting moral question.
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u/skeletonpaul08 4h ago edited 4h ago
It definitely is, which is kind of just a testament to how fucked up modern farming techniques are.
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u/iadoregirls 6h ago
Id Rather go out into Nature and Hunt something than consume whatever this is
This is lacking something basic
Just how AI 'Art' is soulless
This is lacking in the same way
Its just wrong
Growing Meat in Vats Just full Muscle Groups Grown and Cloned or whatever
Fine
This
This is just a Crime
Against everything
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u/EnduringFulfillment 6h ago edited 6h ago
Realistically, the average person who eats meat isn't going to go harvest it from the wild themself.
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u/iadoregirls 6h ago
Yeah
im saying i would rather go back to that
Than whatever horrible crime against Sense and Nature this is
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u/piewca_apokalipsy 5h ago
If my meat doesn't contain animal suffering I don't want it?
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u/Tasty-Complaint-6437 2h ago
This would contain animal suffering too, the hundreds of experiments to generate a pig like this would Definitly not be pretty
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u/Hendiyoboy 2h ago
But in the end it would result in a net good. Even if it took ten generations that would be the last ten generations of suffering ever. Then everything after that is fine.
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u/Tasty-Complaint-6437 2h ago
I just think this is useless, instead of torturing múltiple generations of pigs we could use the same time to make vegetal matter taste like pork. Both are genetical experiments, but on that option we don’t torture pigs and make living creatures that live like that.
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u/svecat 1h ago
A few dozen maybe a hundred pigs one time or hundreds of millions of pigs each year
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u/Tasty-Complaint-6437 1h ago
This Is genetically modificacion and selective breeding, the number would be closer to millions. Is useless when we have other alternatives
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u/svecat 1h ago
No? That's just wrong...
Selective breeding is only useful if we have the trait that you want in the gene pool, and we don't have such pigs in the gene pool.
Second, making genetically modified animals, isn't taking a hundred fully grown pigs and then doing random things in their genome. (Maybe you can propose another way it can reach a million?)
It's taking a cell culture or a single celled zygote and changing its genome. If the embryo doesn't develop it's just descarded, if it does but not how we want it's discarded long before any hint of consciousness appears. So it would be maybe a few dozen adult pigs as I said
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u/Sentient-Bread-Stick 5h ago
Is it not preferable to something that actually horribly mistreats animals?
Take your AI art analogy, for example. I despise AI art, but if forced to choose between that and human-made art that requires involuntary suffering of countless people to produce, I’ll take the former
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u/WilliamCharlesSchnei 5h ago edited 4h ago
It requires pain to create art. That’s why it’s called painting.
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u/NoobsAreNoobslol 4h ago
imo it gets the soul from how you cook it. if someone makes home made jam from store-bought farm-grown apples, and they apply their own recipe and background to it, i think there is still a strong personal aspect to the jam.
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u/El_mochilero 5h ago
Hunting is preferable, but we can’t do that at scale. Human civilization needs things that we can do at enormous scale.
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u/zazzologrendsyiyve 6h ago
Another “soul” person. Couldn’t disagree more.
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u/iadoregirls 6h ago
Tf
How am i a 'Soul' person
Soulless is a descriptive Word like any other
I just Hate everything about this Meatmound idea
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u/Beneficial_Fuel1579 4h ago
You're good dude it's just a bunch of redditors taking your comment too seriously and literally. I get what you meant
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u/TheFluffyPaladin 5h ago
I couldn't agree more, and I'm grateful that someone else said it first lol
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u/JigglyLilyVT 6h ago
this has been posted here before.
the entity itself is moral, but the process to genetically breed this into existence can't possibly be moral
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u/Evanecent_Lightt 6h ago
Ohh snap.. good point..
Unless we're able to grow it from scratch with DNA synthesizing rather than breed into it.40
u/JigglyLilyVT 5h ago
you also bring up a good point.
hypothetically just taking scraps of dna from certain animals to splice into one... meat factory with bo conciousness would be the way to do it
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u/TheBladeWielder 4h ago
oh yeah, that might be the reason this feels so disturbing despite being pretty ethical compared to the alternative. because in order for something like this to exist, it implies that something horrifying probably had to be done to create it.
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u/PristinePiscine 3h ago
I honestly think the process to create this organism would be worth it to basically replace the entire meat industry.
Im not vegan, but like, how many animals currently suffer to be consumed? How much water and energy do we use to feed a single herd of livestock until they are old enough to go to the slaughterhouse?
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u/Wombus7 4h ago
How so, though? Assuming the first thing you do is to genetically remove the cerebral cortex, the iterations leading to the finalized Meat Pig aren't going to suffer.
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u/JigglyLilyVT 3h ago
i think the initial premise was that this wasnt made through genetic cloning, but breeding. which you cant really... effectively do that easily
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u/NocNoctush 6h ago
it cannot think or feel pain, perhaps it doesnt even know its alive. moral
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u/Embarrassed_Safety33 5h ago
Li mean at this point its kinda the same as those burgers that are grown in labs with stem cells
Its not different than idk a bacteria that only lives without thinking/dont feel nothing because isn’t concious
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u/l4efu 5h ago
As long as it's not sentient to its situation, it's basically a meat plant; moreover, it doesn't feel pain and would be a thousand times more efficient than raising normal animals
That said, it feels incredibly messed up, like, we'd be creating man made horrors beyond human comprehension.
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u/ILuvYou_YouAreSoGood 5h ago
What would the "horror" be? That something that doesn't feel pain and can't have hurt feelings exists and is eaten?
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u/l4efu 4h ago
It's not so much the creature itself, as you said it feels nothing and is incredibly efficient at generating resources for humanity; it's more the process of creating a new living being with the sole purpose of being a resource, I feel dread Watching it
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u/ILuvYou_YouAreSoGood 4h ago
Dread of what? And it wouldn't be creating, it would be alteration and adaptation, which have always been going on and will keep going on so long as things live. Do you just not like the idea of humans being able to remove all suffering from life?
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u/sparklefundoll 3h ago
I don’t know why you’re pretending the disgust reaction has anything to do with the lack of suffering, or eating something that doesn’t have feelings or pain. I think the visceral disgust reaction has a lot to do with the fact that this is an uncanny valley abomination based off of a real living creature a lot of us are familiar with, the pig. A lot of commenters who say they aren’t disgusted by lab-grown meat and similar alternatives still have a visceral reaction to this hypothetical.
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u/l4efu 4h ago
Altering a being to turn it into that would be worse than creating a species from scratch for that purpose lol. Besides, I agree, as I said multiple times
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u/gannonator500 5h ago
I think it's more a function of "playing god". Just because we can make something that has no idea it exists, doesn't mean we should. The 6th book of Dune (spoiler) delves into this pretty well with the Tleilaxu.
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u/ILuvYou_YouAreSoGood 5h ago
I thought this creature was a fairly obvious copy of the sligs from that very series. I have read all the books, and still I am not sure what you are talking about. The Masters created the Face Dancers, but inadvertently made them greater than the Masters themselves. Eventually all but one Master is destroyed and the Face Dancers continued on. That seems to me like the Face Dancers were a net positive creation, not some horror. Or were you referencing another creation?
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u/puntycunty 6h ago
Disturbing but nothing TECHNICALLY wrong with it , except maybe how we even GOT HERE
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u/GreenSpleen6 6h ago
Why is one genderless and the other female? Where does the seed come from?
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u/haikusbot 6h ago
Why is one genderless
And the other female? Where
Does the seed come from?
- GreenSpleen6
I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully. Learn more about me.
Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete"
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u/Ptalking_Ptarmigan 6h ago
They might clone them rather than using sperm and egg.
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u/GreenSpleen6 5h ago
But it's a "fertile" "Breeding Variety" with "Multiple uteri and constantly inseminated"
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u/Ptalking_Ptarmigan 5h ago
If you artificially fertilize an egg without sperm, and then implant it into a uterus, does that count as insemination?
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u/GreenSpleen6 4h ago
Whell
Idunno
I thought insemination meant like, using semen but I dont know anymore and I dont wanna look at the optimized meat homunculus anymore1
u/Crafty-Abbreviations 29m ago
There's likely some meat pigs in this senerario that are specifically bred to not have reproductive organs, in order to serve as well, meat. There's also likely male meat pigs that are kept around specifically for harvesting their sperm
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u/Evanecent_Lightt 6h ago
Emotionally = Man made Horrors beyond my comprehension.
But if it has no cortex and is functionally a meat plant with no thoughts = moral.
I just looks & feels horrific to look at..
And probably inevitable in our future..
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u/NeoMetalSonicReacts9 6h ago
moral to use, but the process of creating these could NOT have been moral
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u/No-Shelter3871 6h ago
Far more moral than what we do now, and we still get to eat meat. This would be awesome
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u/TheBladeWielder 5h ago
i mean, it has no cerebral cortex, and therefore doesn't have the ability to think or suffer, so i don't see how this is immoral in a logical sense.
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u/GrandMasterpiece5352 2h ago
on one hand, moral because it can't suffer.
on the other hand, gives the vibe of this joke:
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u/HorsefaceWithNoName 6h ago
ok it has no brain, so no higher awareness, but what does it FEEL? If you really created a creature with no feeling, ok, but that's not what I'm seeing in the illustration. Feeling doesn't happen in the brain. I'm seeing here something that still suffers, but is unaware of its suffering and unable to cogitate it. Look hellish to me.
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u/dragonbl3e 6h ago
the only way it suffers is the way a tree could suffer. without any inputs (sight/smell/touch) there won't be any outputs (thought/feelings/emotions), at least this is a prevalent dogma. the point is that it feels nothing, just like how a tumor feels nothing.
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u/HorsefaceWithNoName 6h ago
although I am aware that's the intellectual thought about this design, I'm not sure that's how things work. In Hawaiian Huna, for example, the feeling Bone Soul is said to reside in the intestines. I see a nightmare here. Of course, to me our existing world is also a nightmare and ranching livestock is a nightmare in particular, so maybe just more of the same :(
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u/NoSacred 3h ago
Any animal we consume was quite literally engineered by humans for consumption. The white turkeys you see every year that the president pardons could never survive in the wild. This concept is the logical end point of the current trajectory.
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u/AbyssWankerArtorias 6h ago
In a perfect scenario this would be good. But I don't know if it would even be logically achievable. The brain is necessary for vital functions of a body. Being able to make one that isn't conscious and can't feel anything while also being able to perform the other functions required of the body doesn't feel possible.
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u/theboxman154 6h ago
Why not? Plenty of living things are already like that. You're body still works while you sleep or in a coma and you're not conscious.
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u/TutucrMapper 2h ago
this is the most dystopian thing I've ever seen, lab grown meat is more moral then this, or being vegan
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u/potato_davi 2h ago
There's a rick and morty episode with a similar question
Idk why I replied to you, just wanted to say something about a show I like, hi :p
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u/L3tsseewhathappens 1h ago
There's also a squidbillie episode on this where Dan Halen engineering a 8 winged and Leg chicken that craps blue cheese ranch.
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u/PeachsBigJuicyBooty 6h ago
Amoral to slaughter, Immoral for whatever lab would make this manmade horror to begin with.
This thing isn't "conscious", but I think it's still important to question whatever scientist made this.
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u/ThePositiveFlatworm 6h ago
I honestly prefer to go vegan and I love meat.
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u/Fuzzy_Celery4621 6h ago
I think it's moral and I actually think it's the direction our meat industry is going. An organism that can't think or feel and grows very fast and can produce milk insanely fast. I think if the lab can make something like this all the animals were abusing in factories can finally be free! I'd certainly eat this.
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u/Fine-Resident-2322 6h ago
Tbh, they'd probably be 'sent to a farm' knowing humanity to be slaughtered. As releasing them into the wild would devastate the ecosystem but it'd be the last generation of domestic farm animals in this case for at least factory farms.
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u/Fuzzy_Celery4621 5h ago
I mean yea anything is better than what we have now I guess. Better they all get slaughtered than live in those conditions. We get super cheap meat for a while as we have a massive influx of typical animal meats and then over time as the meat runs out due to consumption and spoilage the price creeps back up and then the shelves are stocked with the new domestic meat pig meat. It costs next to nothing and it's good for you. Win win.
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u/FactBackground9289 3h ago
I'd reckon even considering the fucked up industry you still need a slow and considerate approach on releasing domestic farm animals into the wild so you dont fuck up the ecosystem, case in point that time when pigs were released into Cuba by spaniards
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u/perkalicous 2h ago
"They can be free" where, where are they going? To all of the habitats that have no place for them?
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u/ShadedRiver666 6h ago
Very weird by todays standards, but also significantly more moral than what we do nowadays. So moral
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u/Muted_Anywherethe2nd 5h ago
Moral but it would feel like we playing god. Itd feel like a precursor to some sci fi atrocity or something
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u/ThrowAway3000Delux 3h ago
Strains of the Tleilaxu.
immoral. This kind of manipulations will create creatures that are resistant to determining sentience. It would be next to impossible to ensure that we are not simply creating creatures designed to be tortured and exploited.
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u/Tasty-Complaint-6437 2h ago edited 1h ago
Extremly inmoral for how useless it is. Im not vegetarían and i despice the flavour of meat substitutes , but it’s infinitly more moral to turn vegetal matter into pork meat than a pig into a vegetal. And let alone morality, we are infinitly closer to do that than to genetically modify a pig into this.
This option it’s more expensive to generate and mantain , more hard to get and more inmoral than just going vegan. If you really want to keep eating food from actual pigs (i wouldnt even call that a pig tbh) i would recommend to consume from small local options.
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u/BreadEnthusiast98 6h ago
Why’s it kinda cute
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u/GNightP 6h ago
Like a giant, meaty urochordate(filtring animals that consume their own brains after growing up). If it doesnt has a brain, it cant be a creature with feelings, thoughts, opinions and/or desires.
Though it sure is gross asf, its moral, since it would make the slaughter of aninals, mostly pigs, waaaaaay smaller. But it would also raise alotta questions about how far the human mind can go by playing God for our comfort.
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u/Withyhydra 5h ago
Objectively more moral in every way compared to our current situation. It's infinitely more complicated than just...not eating meat, but oh well.
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u/Xenthor267 5h ago
Only orifice is nose for breathing but has a feeding tube. Someone just wanted to draw weird shit.
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u/GrandoVenzu 4h ago
It cannot be moral breeding this thing into existence, once its made there is nothing wrong with eating it or replicating it though
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u/repeatoflasttime 4h ago
A fetus has more sensory apparatus. If abortion is morally good (it is) then this is, too. I'd eat horror pork.
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u/piratecheese13 4h ago
A: reducing the nervous system increases the morality of eating meat
B: playing god can result in unintended consequences
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u/Boneboy711-2 4h ago
If the cost to produce and harvest them are low then I see no issue. Its waste could probably be used for fertilizer as well. It wouldn't completely replace traditional animal farming, but it may cause the price to increase due to the higher demand. This wouldn't be popular in the beginning. This reminds me of the turd burger. The protein alternative they were working on from sewage mud.
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u/Ciaran2220 4h ago
It hinges on whether it suffers for me. If not (as it doesn't have nociceptors), then there's nothing particularly wrong with it in my view, and in fact may be a huge net-good if it were an effective alternative to factory farming pigs.
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u/neocorvinus 3h ago
This picture makes me want to buy a gun, go kill something then eat it BBQ style.
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u/ScienceGamer06 3h ago
I think this is an example of just because something is technically moral doesn't make it "right" or "good"
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u/Various_Champion_96 3h ago
It would probably taste bad without the moving around a pig usually does
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u/redpanda3749 2h ago
Making this creature is immoral. Raising animals for the sole purpose of suffering and and dying is immoral.
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u/PaleCaterpillar2709 3h ago
Immoral. Animals deserve dignity. Not nearly as much as humans deserve, but more than this.
Also wouldn’t taste very good.
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u/niellowings 14m ago
"not nearly as much as humans deserve" = "I can't help but blab my mouth about le human superiority because I'm low IQ"
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u/Lastsynphony 3h ago edited 1h ago
Even Mengele would gag at this, I really do not know what to think. This violates so much bio-ethical laws in every way, first of hand, I do not even know how they would manage to actually "create" this being or modify a pig so much that turns out into this, second-handly, this violates every principle of how CRISPR and similar should be used in the first place, if humanity goes into this step of being comfortable creating this kind of beings, then it opens the door to even more bioethical violations, and I am just going to open this debate:
What would be the morality of creating by DNA manipulation humans that are not conscious, for example, assuming they do not have the brainstem, that are created in artificial uterus, and that are fully grown adults, that are used for harvasting organs? Would that not be the same principle of modifying a human so much and depriving them of consciusness for a self-serving porpoise? That is why they are certain bioethical principles that CANNOT be crossed, otherwise you only open the door to more and more violations and unethical things.
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u/gothicweirdooo 1h ago
This. I was reading through the comments and was horrified by why everyone thought this was okay. I thought I was crazy and just couldn’t find the words as to why an idea such as this one unsettled me. But, your comparison explained exactly how I feel and if I had money I would award this.
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u/Lastsynphony 1h ago
Aww thank you! I agree, it disturbed me as well that they agreed so much with this.
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u/RealAd8853 3h ago
I think it’s moral but it doesn’t feel moral. It feels like something I would see in a dystopian world
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u/nomorebuttsplz 6h ago
I would worry about all the non-cerebral cortext brain matter. why is it necessary?
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u/gingin_9959 6h ago
We still need brain to survive
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u/nomorebuttsplz 6h ago
I guess this is kind of like lab grown mean except using body tissues instead of a vat. And it begs the question of why bother?
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u/gingin_9959 6h ago
For that “body tissue” to stay alive, it needs the brain’s life sustaining functions. No matter how hard we try, lab grown meat will never be able to replicate the efficiency of living tissue or the texture that actual body tissue has. Honestly, I think lab grown meat is going to taste like shit no matter how much effort we put into it, so if we’re going to really worry about ethics, I’d at least like to see this much effort put into it. They could also at least stimulate the muscles with electrical signals to encourage muscle development.
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u/nomorebuttsplz 6h ago
Lab grown meat is already out and people cannot reliably distinguish it.
But it's very new so saying "no matter how hard we try" doesn't really make sense.
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u/Maximum_Boros 2h ago
People "cannot reliably distinguish it" when both samples are ground up into a slurry.
As of right now no lab grown meat successfully replicates an actual cut of meat. Only things like ground beef.
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u/Puggy_ 5h ago
Feels moral. The suffering of animals in today’s meat industry pisses me off so much. Harvesting something that isn’t put through mental torture would be preferable. And you don’t have to go through the process of putting them through agonizing pain through botched kill attempts.
The morality conundrum I’d be concerned with is the attempts to create such a creature and what suffering horrors may be made on the way there. Overall, it would be the price for progress, I guess…
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u/Flashy-Telephone-648 5h ago
I admittedly I don't know all the steps invariing, but I feel like this would be more work than just raising animals. I get the reason no pain, no suffering. I'm just saying this might be a logistical thing
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u/SumYumGhai 3h ago
If it have no pain receptors and no conscious, is it vegan? Also, is it halal?
Btw, didn't we do this to chickens already?
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u/tykaboom 2h ago
I think the cow from hitchikers guide that wants you to eat it is more moral.
/s obviously.
But it is hilarious.
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u/alarin88 1h ago
To reduce an animal to complete biological erasure and loss of autonomy for the sole purpose of…this shit being comfortable enough for human beings to stand morally
It’s atrocious. This is the kind of creep we will allow as our technology gets more powerful and entrenches this kind of standard in life.
Just twist a being’s dignity until it can’t feel, can’t think, can’t be what it was meant to be.
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u/BigTittedBob 1h ago
In "Observer: System Redux" you'll watch a scene with a very similar concept. A pig wearing VR goggles that project a green field so it can stay relaxed while it gets milked
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u/alarin88 1h ago
Removing an animal’s ability for conscious experience is immoral in and of itself. Regardless of whether it’s “more moral” for it to not feel its conditions after you remove the capacity
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u/Acrobatic-Attention9 1h ago
I think this is a great idea. We just have an obsession with 'natural' as if our current system is natural.
As long as yoh dont see how the sausage is made.
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u/alarin88 1h ago
The very act of removing an organism’s capability like that should be considered a moral crime in and of itself. Regardless of whether you think it’s “moral” that it can’t feel its conditions anymore.
Fucking disgusting. Try universalizing that principle to all beings, humans included
I hope fucking AI decides we should be treated the same, by that logic
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u/Doinkadoinkdoink 57m ago
Massively immoral. Just grow lab grown meat at that point. There is no point in attaching it to an organism through genetic engineering.
It’s a massive cope to say it can’t think or feel when pigs have nerve endings, a brain, and a capacity to experience. You can’t really rule out that it can’t perceive itself in some way.
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u/elecanime 50m ago
Es como aquel capitulo de Rick y Morty,cuántos de aquí piensan un poco sobre como funciona la moralidad?
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u/MycologistGood2498 46m ago
Its more moral than keeping an animal wich is capable of feeling emotions and killing it for meet... Mabey you engineer the animal in a way so it wants to be eatan..
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u/spookysaph 12m ago
I'm convinced that consuming products from this creature would create something worse than cancer
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u/BellPepperBeyond 8m ago
If it has no brain and can't feel pain, then it is only "alive" in the most technical, biological sense. Nothing done to it could be considered cruel, because it really is just an "it," no more sacred or special than any other inanimate object. The fact that it is cloned from living flesh is irrelevant as it didn't inherit anything other than what was strictly necessary for meat production. As long as the meat was safe to consume, then farming these things would dramatically reduce animal suffering and death from factory farming. This is perfectly moral in every way. Y'all just think it's wrong because it's gross.
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u/alarin88 1h ago
Absolutely disgusting and morally abominable
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u/svecat 1h ago
Can you elaborate on why it's morally abominable?
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u/alarin88 1h ago
You’re twisting an animal’s biology and autonomy to the point of complete biological erasure just so that we have an endless easy meat supply. It’s just wrong on so many levels to bend its biology in such an extensive and undignified way
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u/svecat 1h ago
It's not twisting, it's more removing, it's removing the capability to have autonomy, but the animal will not be there to experience any of this loss, its never conscious, it doesn't feel pain, it's like a plant. It's not even a pig that got it's autonomy taken away, it's just an organism that lacks the capacity for consciousness.
I think that factory farming maybe be one of the worst if not the worst thing that humanity has done as it is actually taking away the autonomy from animals that have the capacity for it, and it's then torturing animals that actually experience being tortured. What you described in your above message is factory farming and not the pig in the picture. And I think that stopping the most immoral thing humanity has done is moral, even if it doesn't seem "right" or is icky.
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u/alarin88 1h ago
You’d need to reduce a pig to an animal like that, which happens by a process that reduces its biology to something like that. Which is heinous.
It’s like locking a person in a cage and torturing them, then removing their entire nervous system and saying, “See? It’s fine now, it’s unable to feel the indignity!”
The very act is a crime in itself. It shouldn’t matter if it “can’t feel”, the act of removing that capability is disgusting.
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u/The_Peanut_Patch 1h ago
Exactly. People are thinking this is a finger snap and we have it scenario.
This would require horrific animal torture and experimentation to reach.
Just eat beans!
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u/svecat 1h ago
You aren't removing the nervous system from a live pig, all genetic modification happens in vitro.
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u/alarin88 1h ago
Is it ethically permissible to deliberately redesign an animal lineage, eliminating its capacity for autonomous existence, solely to maximize its usefulness as a biological commodity?
Suppose you do that to human beings. Again, universalize the principle
My objection isn't that you're painfully removing an animal's capabilities. It's that you're deliberately engineering those capabilities out of an animal's existence altogether, for the sole purpose of exploitation. Doing it before birth doesn't resolve my objection; it's the very act I'm objecting to
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u/svecat 36m ago
If you make an embryo without any capacity to experience anything, I think that's fine, the bad part we experience is purely aesthetic.
Second, anything you have ever eaten has been genetically modified and selectively bred to maximize it's usefulness as a biological commodity. What is the difference of making this pig and genetically engineering a 5' lettuce? There is no pig soul getting denied it's consciousness, as there was no consciousness to begin with (just like lettuce) if you're arguing from what the pig was denied, then you have to argue against every time we genetically engineer a plant to lose a function it had before.
Did we "deny" the banana the capacity to reproduce? Yes. Is this biological erasure? Also yes. But the banana has no consciousness to care. Is it bad to castrate live humans, or engineer humans to be sterile? Also yes because humans have consciousness.
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u/alarin88 33m ago
….plants don’t have fucking nervous systems for us to engineer out of them.
This would still be seriously energy-intensive and cause just as much emissions, anyway, too. So even practically this would still cause problems for our food and environmental system. Even without the moral argument.
And I don’t think it’s fine to start making embryos and people intentionally to remove what autonomy they once had, especially nervous systems they developed naturally. It’s heinous. Pigs and cows and livestock once had “consciousness”, they’re extremely intelligent animals.
So that’s where you and I fundamentally diverge
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u/svecat 26m ago
Yes that's the point I was making, you are arguing that it's bad to remove something that an animals ancestors once had. Let's also do the "universal application" test here, or whatever it's called lol.
Is removing the reproductive abilities from a banana bad.
Also you aren't removing the autonomy that they "once had" in this case they never had even the capacity for autonomy and no capacity to experience not having autonomy as there is no them (as in subjective experience)
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u/IamCerealman 6h ago
Morality of consuming something eldritch with snake dna