r/NationalParkService • u/babycakes852 • 13d ago
Discussion Conversation with visitor
I'm a seasonal ranger at Congaree NP. Today, I had a conversation with a visitor who has visited many of the parks. We were talking about why some units are parks and others are monuments and so on.
He mentioned that on a previous trip, he spoke to a couple rangers at various western parks who believed there are several NPs that shouldn't have the National Park title. Apparently, one ranger believed there should only be 50 NPs and the other 13 should be categorized as something else or not in the NPS system. Congaree was one of the ones that she named. According to her, we're "just a forest". Lol!
When talking to visitors, please don't trash talk other parks! All parks have unique resources/features/history and thats what makes them special. My job is to get the public to understand why this area is important and if they come in with a negative viewpoint from other rangers, it makes my job much more difficult!
We all have our opinions & our favorite parks, I understand that. However, Congaree is not "just a forest". To that park ranger, come visit and see how beautiful it is for yourself :)
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u/dsg158 13d ago
I hate this whole idea of ranking parks or that certain parks shouldn't have this designation or that designation...other than St. Louis Arch of course. You mostly see it from the Western US directed towards the East Coast. Congaree and Cuyahoga Valley are usually the ones that get thrown under the bus.
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u/4CornersDisaster 13d ago
And Mount Rushmore! Fuck that desecration!
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u/Admirable-Eagle-231 11d ago
This one is my ONLY submission for the negative pile otherwise OP is 100%.
I’m sure there’s pretty things to enjoy on the backside of the mountain too…
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u/JulesRulesYaKnow 6d ago
I have not been there. What improvements could they make? Maybe the better question is: what is wrong with it? Too remote?
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u/destrukt0 13d ago
Lol, as a St. Louis native I agree. Cuyahoga valley is awesome though. Has the largest farmers market I have ever been to and it’s a beautiful place.
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u/dsg158 13d ago
Yeah, I think it goes over people's heads that Cuyahoga is showcasing what conservation and rehabilitation can actually do. In Cuyahoga's case.. it's A LOT. The work put into the Krejci Dump area is incredible. Going from an extremely contaminated dump to a remediated wetland is amazing.
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u/RoyalEagle0408 13d ago
Shockingly, Indiana Dunes gets a lot of hate, which I never understood. It's like people don't understand what it is.
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u/Temporary-Jello-8074 13d ago
I maintain that hating on gateway arch is compliance with a system that lists monuments as lesser which isn’t great.
Honestly, get mad at the arch for being a monument to colonialism and for being built in a black neighborhood by black excluding unions.
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u/Bigrederik 13d ago
Having worked at both a national memorial and a national park, I do tend to get a little defensive when a visitor implies that only the capital P parks are worth a visit. I have had many conversations defending the “lesser” park units, and always encourage people to ignore the designation and visit all the parks they can. When someone says “ this is park number 30 for me”, I always say “only roughly 400 to go!”
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u/screaminglikeanelk 13d ago
Same. I try to implore that all 430+ sites are national parks. They are just called something different based on how they were organized or founded. Changing the name from a monument to park changes nothing except for the signs and spending more money to reprint unigrids.
It’s amazing how many people don’t think their national park pass would work at a national monument.
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u/4CornersDisaster 13d ago
And legislation. Parks take an act of congress, monuments can be declared by POTUS.
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u/potatogun 13d ago
Designations from Congress are more rock solid. Monument designation is not, in and of itself, super duper meaningful.
NPS unit is not the same, since there are BLM/USFS too, even if most monuments are NPS. And of course, there's NPS units that are less focused on protection (recreation areas, etc).
As far as relative value to people or society or whatever, sure. I don't even get the obession with visiting ALL the NPs. But if there's lists, people try to complete them.
There's some places I'd rather just be Wilderness and not a NP (with the development involved to showcase it). That said, NP designation usually means more boots on the ground presence, even if there is mismanagement. Whereas, some Wilderness areas may be robustly protected in name only...
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u/screaminglikeanelk 13d ago
There are only more boots on the ground in national parks because more people visit and they tend to be large. In this environment, I don’t see Chiricahua getting any new staff to make up with the increase of people.
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u/potatogun 13d ago
We're all trying to hold the line with cuts/attacks.
BLM field offices can have millions of acres and visit some parts like once a year. That can be a different level of fucked.
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u/babycakes852 13d ago
My coworkers and I get annoyed with it too. The amount of times I get a look of confusion when I say there at 7 NP units in South Carolina... and I start naming them and I get a "Well, no that isnt ACTUALLY a NP" 🙄 So frustrating! I dont get it, why wouldn't you want to visit these smaller units? Cool history, beautiful trails, very quiet, & typically free/low cost
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u/DayGeckoArt 13d ago
I think this is related to modern tourism culture. Right now most visitors to Hawaii are going to check boxes so they put as much stuff into their schedules as possible. If they’re having fun or relaxing they see that as a waste of time. So of course they don’t appreciate public lands
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u/AlexandraThePotato 13d ago
I get so piss when people say “Visit all 60ish national parks” like stfu. There are far far far more than that!
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u/CulturalCity9135 13d ago
As someone who lives next to a non-P unit. I love all of my national park Units. I have access to so many trails that I don’t have to maintain.
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u/HewSpam 13d ago
Another example of why passing an interview to receive a uniform and a title doesn’t automatically make you not a dumbass
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u/babycakes852 13d ago
Lol. She obviously did not know what she was talking about. She included Dry Tortugas on her list too, which is INSANE to me.
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u/destrukt0 13d ago
Dry tortugas??? That park is amazing! The snorkeling is fantastic and like 90% of it is underwater…
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u/TorpidCicada 13d ago
These are probably the same type of people who think the only nature worth experiencing is mountains. I’m pretty judgmental toward people who are dismissive of a place as wondrous as Congaree
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u/netanalyze 13d ago
Everyone should understand we have the most incredible National and State Parks system in the world. The geographic diversity and vast history of our country that are covered at hundreds of locations gives us a great view into how we got here as a country and as a people. Having been to well over 200 sites since 2024, I honestly can’t say any are better or worse than the next. Gateway Arch seems to land on most folks least liked list. Take a walk through the visitor center attractions and simply put yourself in their shoes to see what the Arch and movement west meant to this country. It’s a powerful story to me, just as standing on the rim at Bryce Canyon is visually stunning. So when folks ask for my list, i can honestly say all of them.
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u/ghostwriter536 13d ago
I think every state should have at least one national park.
Sounds to me that ranger needs to work on some Junior ranger books to understand the greatness of all NPS sites and their importance to our country.
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u/555-starwars 13d ago
I agree with this. No new National Parks in states that already have one, until all 50 have at least 1.
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u/RoyalEagle0408 13d ago
I get really bothered by the people who think denoting something a "National Park" makes it suddenly more worthy of a visit than of it has any of the other designations. I do think the designations have value but sometimes wish they were all just National Parks to stop this unnecessary hierarchy.
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u/CatsBye90 13d ago
"Just a forest". What are they looking for, a water park or Six Flags or something?
Congaree is great, btw.
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u/TerminalSunrise USFS RecTech / Forest Protection Officer🌲 13d ago
Don’t get me started on some NPS employees’ opinions of national forests. NPS has a reputation for being a bit stuck-up at times in general.
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u/Bigrederik 13d ago edited 13d ago
I love National Forests, although I have never worked for the USFS. They are the best place to go hiking with your dog! If you want solitude, explore a National Forest. They are huge, have minimal infrastructure for visitors, and you can really find peace there. I wholeheartedly believe in the mission of the NPS but it is frustrating dealing with the crush of people that just want a stamp and a magnet at the VC.
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u/TerminalSunrise USFS RecTech / Forest Protection Officer🌲 13d ago
I agree! I love them both. And the other public lands too. I think it’s good that we have different agencies and different missions. It allows for variety/options. Both as an employee and a member of the public.
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u/JulesRulesYaKnow 6d ago
Although I’ve been to many, many parks in the system in my lifetime, I just recently bought one of those big passport books and find it kind of fun.
I saw it in the newer Undercroft exp. at the Lincoln Memorial, and decided to buy one.
For the people who would come visit that aren’t like us and appreciate the parks for the nature and the educational experiences they are, it is hopefully a way to get them semi-aware of the properties and why they are important.
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u/ReindeerTypical2538 13d ago
Prior to joining the NPS, I was visiting a park where I excitedly asked the park ranger at the front desk what that really cool bird I saw was. After describing the bird to them, they looked at me and said in a monotone voice, “Yeah, that’s just a nutcracker. They’re like rats here.” It was a shitty response to an excited kid and I use that interaction as an example of how NOT to talk with visitors. Some of the rangers out there aren’t the best and brightest.
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u/babycakes852 13d ago
I've worked with some people like that and its so painful to watch. I'm glad you still chose the ranger path :)
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u/Suit_Responsible 13d ago
An area could be important and not be a national park… the other designations are important.
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u/Ok-Deer1539 13d ago
I’m not NPS, I work fisheries and have friends who are NPS tho. This is horrible to tell impressionable people. I may think the fish I work with are better in every way than fish elsewhere, but I don’t go around saying that since their fish aren’t as cool that they don’t need the same amount of protection.
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u/Temporary-Jello-8074 13d ago
I believe the national parks shouldn’t be parks to prevent monuments from being trashed. I wish the system was based in a naming convention around what the park protects or what people do there. I’ve had this conversation with visitors a couple times lol.
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u/thinlySlicedPotatos 13d ago
I'm so glad we visited congaree. We happened to come during firefly mating which is absolutely surreal, but even without the fireflies it would have been worth it.
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u/Hikinghawk 13d ago
I've kinda stopped listening when visitors say "oh this place is good enough to be a park!" When talking about the National Monument I work at. All NPS units inherently have value and while I get from the outside people think that there is some sort of ranking system or status that simply isn't true. It's frustrating, but I guess we just got to convince one visitor (or co worker) at a time.
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u/FreddyHof 13d ago
I get visitors all the time that don't even know the difference between parks and monuments. Because essentially, they are the same!! Basically they're named after how they were created and nothing else!! Sure, there are some common patterns (parks tend to be bigger, protect multiple locations, etc) but all of those patterns are broken at some point or another. I'm so sick of visitors thinking we're "lessor" because we're a monument not a park.
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u/CaliTexan22 13d ago
The Antiquities Act was never intended to be a vehicle for creating something like our national parks.
“The law was specifically designed to give the President power to preserve "historic landmarks, historic and prehistoric structures, and other objects of historic or scientific interest."
An unfortunate Supreme Court case later said that courts wouldn’t interfere with presidents doing something completely different - locking up giant areas of land in national monuments without congressional approval.
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u/QT_3-14159 13d ago
I’m at a park unit that was recently redesignated. It drives us crazy too, as if our park is somehow more worthy to visit now. Also I cringe when local vendors sell merch with xxxxx National Park, est. 20xx. Constantly reminding visitors we’ve been here for many decades and that nothing changed except the name and the number of visitors.
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u/PizzaIll1475 13d ago
The more we travel the more we have come to appreciate and seek out national monuments. They are jewels.
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u/TemporaryPicture2289 12d ago
Some are special because we say they are special for reasons that had to be investigated in the first place to even see.
Quite frankly, we could apply that process to nearly anyplace in the nation and do that.
Simple fact is the parks ARE parks and that is the end of the story. The fact some are only parks to 'preserve' real estate that will be sold off to insiders or used by the government at a future date doesn't change that.
There are also a couple of parks that were placed on top of mineral resources just to prevent their purchase and exploitation by private interests, pet project if you will by well connected people.
They are still parks. If they have a problem with it, tell them to call their congressperson.
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u/RangerdangerU2 11d ago
I work at one of the parks that regularly gets hated on by visitors about having that “status” when asked about it, I’m honest. It’s an act of Congress. That is the difference. Nothing changed other than the name, we pull from the same pot of money and we are staffed by the same rangers from before. Then I’ll maybe joke about “when you figure out why Congress does what it does, let me know” and we chuckle and move on. They always want to put more meaning behind the “park” name but really it boils down to legislation from Congress vs an executive order. Sad to see that other rangers don’t get that. Some of the jewels of NPS are units other than “parks”.
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u/bikepackingebiking 10d ago
Do they want a park for every state or something? Did they just have a list prepped of every park and which ones shouldn't be parks?
I know park rangers are supposed to know their park but knowing all 50 and then picking 13 to not have as parks is interesting.
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u/AlexandraThePotato 13d ago
If I was in charge, I would fire them. Look I bad talk parks sometimes with other park rangers. All in play (fuck you in particular Indiana dunes, sleeping bears have bigger dunes). But that not shit you say to the public. It’s anti public land and is not a good image
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u/urbangeeksv 13d ago
As an interpretive guide I talk positive about all parks but I do mention the original place names. Certain names such as Alabama Hills, and Fremont Peak should be returned back to their original Native place names.
In fact y'all can give input to potential renaming of Fremont Peak state park, please fill out the survey here: https://www.parks.ca.gov/NewsRelease/1582
For that matter Junipera Serra should be returned to its original name of Pimkolam.
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u/CaliTexan22 13d ago
Parks should be the very best the country has to offer. Some of our parks meet that test and some don’t. The process by which Congress creates parks is a political process and there’s always horse-trading and compromising to get something done.
So, yes, there are unworthy parks, IMO. (That said, it’s sorta bad form for a ranger in park A to badmouth park B.)
National monuments started out with a clear purpose - stopping pot hunters - and has metastasized into something that allows a president to lock up vast amounts of land without any checks or balances. And allows one administration to declare something and the next administration to change it.
The USA has all sorts of public lands; it doesn’t need to be a “park” label to be used and enjoyed.
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u/TheLearningIdiot 12d ago
I used to have the goal of visiting all of the National Parks in the USA and im really close but after visting Indiana Dunes and Hot springs I questioned this goal. Will probably do it since im young and pretty close. But Some National Park designations are head scratching.
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u/seancoleman07 12d ago
To be fair to Hot Springs, it was a national reservation from the days of Andrew Jackson I believe
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u/Cokes311 13d ago
Even if there are some NPs that shouldn't be (and there are at least a couple! everyone knows it!) it's not something anyone should be doing as a Parks employee, that's crazy
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u/Present-Permit-6743 13d ago
What’s that one in Indiana? Yeah, that should be a state park or some shit.
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u/babycakes852 13d ago
Indiana Dunes? I disagree. I haven't visited, but after several visitors telling me they hated that park, I looked into what their "thing" is. They have the highest amount of plant species out of any NP in the country. Something like over 1200 I think. That alone is worth preserving!
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u/destrukt0 13d ago
That seems incredibly unprofessional of that ranger…