r/NintendoSwitch • u/AG_Joseph Akupara Games • 4d ago
AMA - Ended We Release Our Knowledge Based Metroidvania, Echo Weaver, Last Week - Ask Me Anything
Hello everyone!
Last week, we released Echo Weaver, a knowledge based metroidvania that is inspired by Outer Wilds. Your knowledge is the key to solving how to pass each barrier, not the lack of abilities.
Here are a couple videos of our game and some of the changes made throughout development. That gameplay deep dive was before an art revamp.
- Launch: https://youtu.be/FTJEppg4Kwg
- Time Trials: https://youtu.be/Pww_VoGco_E
- Gameplay Deep Dive: https://youtu.be/3fCNTUdYp6M
I’m the community manager of Akupara Games, who published Echo Weaver, and I am joined by Moonlight Kids u/SgtBlu3, the programmer, u/csumsky3, coder and level designer, and Justin the artist and animator! We will be here for about two hours so feel free to ask us any questions and one of us will get to you!
Thank you everyone for your questions! We had a great time! If you have any other questions feel free to ask them here. It just may take us a bit to answer.
6
u/DizzySeaman 4d ago
I've finished the game and I love it, I wanted to ask what media did you take inspiration to create this game?
3
u/csumsky3 Moonlight Kids 4d ago
(btw i'll be posting for both myself and Justin!)
Justin: Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it! We are inspired by a lot of things but some examples are Scavengers Reign, Alien, Outer Wilds, Deathloop, and obviously Metroid.
2
2
u/DizzySeaman 3d ago
This game is gonna do great, it's gonna be one of the big ones that people will say "play it it's best if you don't know anything about it"
6
u/law5guy 4d ago
What's a memorable/fun anecdote about designing a particular part of the game? Some room that didn't quite make sense until you had One Cool Idea. Some NPC who seemed silly until you worked out there One Weird Opinion.
3
u/csumsky3 Moonlight Kids 4d ago
(btw i'll be posting for both myself and Justin!)
Chris: Such a good question! I'm sure given time I could think of tons, but I'll just rattle off of a few fun ones:
- The NPC Ivo, his whole deal is he evolves over loops, if you help him out. His personality changes each time, so it ended up being a ton of writing haha. So yea, the only reason his first form is nonverbal was to help myself on the writing scope :P
- The room above the long spike jump room on the way to Spillways is the oldest chunk of level design in the entire game - probably close to 4.5 years old! As such it had some funny quirks when I finally brought it back to be here lol
- The one major shortcut you learn after getting to town is something we knew we wanted for a very long time. The entire layout between those two parts of the game had to stay lined up just so for it all to work. But boy did it pay off - seeing players react to that is so cool.
- Similarly, if you look closely, the entire world is laid out in a particular shape 👀
4
u/bobomo1 4d ago
Will there be any DLC or anything in the future? It's a great game!
2
u/AG_Joseph Akupara Games 4d ago
Nothing planned at the moment! We have a ton of ideas but right now we are focused on polishing the base game. This may change in the future however!
3
u/kkiniaes 4d ago
Longtime fan of the team ;) and been loving playing the game so far. Was there a first "knowledge unlock" the team designed that solidified the future direction of the game? The game has so many great "a-ha!" moments, i'm curious if there was one notable "a-ha" moment for the team?
3
u/csumsky3 Moonlight Kids 4d ago
Chris: Oh heeeyyyyyyyyyy there kkini. Definitely the glaive and (early-game spoilers!) how it can be recalled and warped to.
This actually only became part of the game about halfway through development (crazy, I know). Before that the game operated more like Neon White, where there were tons of items, all of which had a main basic use, and a secret "metroidbrainia" use. It was kinda cool, but a bit overwhelming (both for dev and player). It was also really scopey, nothing about it was really clicking.
Sooooo we scrapped all of them and thought of one new cool one, that would be more like your sidekick, featured in game art and lore and everything. And then yea, once we thought up how you can just recall it anytime, anywhere (even loop 1 - like everything), and then plant it anywhere and warp back to it.... well, the game just clicked. The possibilities were endless and the rest of ability and world/level design kinda reoriented towards that as a core pillar.
1
u/p-leung-2969 14h ago
The recall-anywhere rule gives each loop the same starting tool, which makes experiments easier to read: if a route fails, you can focus on what you learned instead of whether you brought the right item.
3
u/Additional-Edge9860 4d ago
Few questions:
1. Did you run into any issues with individuals getting turned around/confused when they were playing through? The concept of expanding traversal techniques being tied to knowledge rather than unlocks tread a fine balance.
2. Did you get any feedback about people not realizing what was and was not a win condition? e.g., I beat the game without completing a single 'person related' sidequest. Whoops!
3. How have initial sales gone, broadly speaking? I really want to support the dev, but I'm also huge into game preservation, so the sweet spot would have been a physical copy but that doesn't appear to currently be in the cards so I pulled the trigger. Super glad I did!
3
u/csumsky3 Moonlight Kids 4d ago
Justin:
- Always issues really, something that clicks for most might not for others, so a lot of iteration is usually required there. We really enjoy level design so it is something we enjoy trying to design for.
- Not really, finding the way to break the loop is really the main ask. The NPC quests are up to you.
- We are also huge on game preservation, we are currently really focused on maintaining the game as is but its definitely not off the table.
3
u/Additional-Edge9860 4d ago
For #2, I made an assumption that because of the time that had progressed I assumed a lot of the characters 'were no longer relevant', but I got that one wrong!
Again, excellent game and I'm glad I tore through it in essentially two sittings, but before I dig into the trophy hunt I'm gonna give it a few patches. Really having to hold out though.
🔥 💯 🔥
3
u/csumsky3 Moonlight Kids 4d ago
Woo! Thanks for playing, and for the kind words. More patches are definitely on the way!
3
u/JoeSchmo8677 4d ago
Is this better on steam or switch? Will the demo progress carry over if it buy it? Downloading now thx.
4
u/csumsky3 Moonlight Kids 4d ago
Demo progress doesn't carry over right now. Since the demo is much older, there would be issues. (We will eventually update the demo to match the release game, and then saves will carry over!)
The Steam version gets updated much more frequently, just because we can patch instantly over there. Switch 2 patches take about a week and change each, so is usually about that far behind Steam and the other consoles. Other than that though, same game!
4
u/JoeSchmo8677 4d ago
Metroidvanias and time loops are two of my favourite things. Stoked to try this mashup of them :D
3
u/Wjb1 4d ago
What is the best metroidvania that you have played witch is not your own game?
6
u/csumsky3 Moonlight Kids 4d ago
Chris: I don't know about "best", but my favorite is Hollow Knight (boring answer I know haha). Another one that kinda flew under the radar (and maybe would be considered more of a Zelda-like?) is Blue Fire.
Justin: Also not sure about "best", but in recent memory Ghost Song. Also Yoku's Island Express.
Chris: Oh Yoku's! That game rocks - me too, that one.
3
u/Academic_Process_271 4d ago
Why no Switch 1 version? Sad that I won't be able to play it for some time. Was it a financial or creative decision?
6
u/csumsky3 Moonlight Kids 4d ago
We tried soooo hardddd to get this in for launch. The truth is the Switch 1 has always been a low specs system, even in the heyday. And now it's getting old >< Echo Weaver might not seem like it, but it's a complex game and there are only 3 of us full-time (and really only 1 of us doing all the performance work!). We got really close, but it just wasn't running well enough to be happy with putting it out there. We still want to do it!
3
1
u/hisownsidekick 4d ago
Good luck with this! I'm sure that there are a lot of us who can't afford Switch 2s who would love to play.
3
u/MultiKoopa2 4d ago
Why do I love this game so much? oh does it have to be questions you can answer
2
u/csumsky3 Moonlight Kids 4d ago
Why do you love this game so much: because you are a brilliant, fun, lovely person ;)
2
3
u/twoTheta 4d ago
I heard Jason Schreier give you guys a shout-out on his podcast, so I picked it up and have been having a a really good time with it. About six hours in. Enjoying it a ton.
My questions are about planning.
- How much of the master plan/tricks/layout did you have at the outset and how much did you add in as you went along?
- What tools did you use for your planning? Physical notebooks, bulletin board, all in your head?
Thanks, and thank you guys for a wonderful game!
3
u/csumsky3 Moonlight Kids 4d ago
Ooo sorry just seeing this! I have to step away for a bit but I love these questions and will answer in a bit!
1
u/twoTheta 4d ago
No worries. I saw the official time was up and thought I'd throw it out there anyway.
Thank you for taking time to answer questions and for producing such an awesome game!
3
u/swingthebass 4d ago
Question! Is there much action in addition to the knowledge based overall mechanic? I always fall in love with “metroidbranias “ more in theory than practice because I like to go boing boing smash. Does it also go boing boing smash?
2
u/DaCamelJockey 4d ago
Will this require any kind of online connection to run once installed? Or can it be played locally/offline?
3
u/csumsky3 Moonlight Kids 4d ago
No internet required! Aside from possibly missing updates, you're fine to play offline :)
2
u/MetroidvaniaGuru 4d ago
Hello!
I don't have a question. I just wanted to say I LOVED Echo Weaver! I'll have a video up tomorrow (NO SPOILERS!).
I HIGHLY recommend Echo Weaver to Metroidvania AND MetroidBRAINia fans :)
2
u/csumsky3 Moonlight Kids 4d ago
Woo thank you so much! That means a ton ❤️ Drop a link here, if you happen to remember :P
2
2
1
u/Sephardson 4d ago
Thanks for doing an AMA today!
If someone were to go in to your game without any foreknowledge and avoided looking things up, about how many hours would you anticipate they'd spend before completing the game?
When writing a story or narrative within a time loop, did you find anything tricky to do, or did you have any tricks to organizing it?
3
u/csumsky3 Moonlight Kids 4d ago
We're seeing playtimes be in the range of 8-12 hours for main story and maybe doing occasional side stuff along the way. Longer if you want to do everything :)
Writing for time loop... oh man, so hard haha. One common thing: NPCs might have long conversations with you one loop, and acknowledge knowing you throughout their loop and different spots. But then in other loops, they might not have met you at all... so every NPC, at every spot... would have to have unique writing to acknowledge whether they know you or not. Pretty nuts.
Another thing I got stuck on and really wanted to do was make it so you can still help everyone in the end, in the final loop. This meant every NPC had to have their normal, long way of doing their quest: involving piecing together clues of their story over several loops, then executing them in one loop. And a short way of doing their loop: a trick or shortcut you learn from doing their quest the long way, that you can then execute very quickly in the final loop. This makes it so you can meet and save every NPC in the final loop, and make all the work count :) This was super important to us.
2
u/kasplatter 4d ago
Just want to say that I "finished" today and my time played shows 16 hours and while I might be shamed for that time played as well as the next bit... I am on reset 300+, it was worth it. Some of that is just experimenting because I could. Some of it is having a plan, then realizing that plan wasn't going to work and resetting, then realizing the plan was sound, but I went to the wrong place, then resetting... Some of it is a "late game" mechanic that I feel is crucial, but I can't pull off consistently and so would burn up minutes trying to do it, then later found out, something else, without being spoilerific.
Anyway, just want to say Well Done! I don't know how much time is supposed to pass, pun intended before people start gently guiding the struggling players, but I have a couple of ideas for posts / videos, but I will hold off for now.
If you have bought it, think / play it some more. If you haven't bought it, give it a try, it is a good one.
2
u/LandscapeHappy190 3279-2949-2677 4d ago
Hahaha your comment is so vague and confusing but I appreciate it since I still have a long way to go in Echo Weaver.
1
u/LandscapeHappy190 3279-2949-2677 4d ago
There are way too many great games right now and it's tearing my heart apart Lisa that Echo Weaver isn't #1 on all the charts right now. I first found out about it thanks to Gamepass and after like an hour of playing it on there I grabbed it for the Switch. And then I bought that Pikmin-like whose name I'm forgetting but I loved on Gamepass as well and forgot to buy it on my Switch til now.
I may have missed the AMA but going to ask anyway just in case. With Metroidvanias still being the genre du jour for indie devs, was there any hesitation in making Echo Weaver or talks about genre flips?
Gotta say, the art is gorgeous, colors he poppin, gameplay has perfect mouth feel, and the time shenanigans are actually unique which is insane to me. Congrats on a great game and I really hope it breaks the bank for you guys
1
u/amisfitseasloth 11h ago
Hey there ! No questions, didn’t even realize I was playing so close to release ! It’s been so seamless, such a beautiful design and so many unique and exciting features ! Being able to learn new areas of the map after learning a new mechanic has been my favorite part. Truly unlike anything being made, I think I’m about 15-16 hours in on Xbox (ik I’m in the wrong sub but it came up as I was looking for some info) and still finding new alcoves and quests I knew nothing about. Truly, such a fun game and very grateful for the work yall put into it :))
7
u/HansyRod 4d ago
Hi! No questions from me as I haven't played yet (buried in Fire Emblem right now), but loved the demo and looking forward to it! Thanks for what looks to be an amazing game!