Here We Go Again

[u/Wilson7277]

[u/GripAficionado]

So do we think the latest dose of shortsightedness from the US pushed Canada one step closer to buying Gripen rather than simply getting more F-35s?

Capability wise buying more F-35s makes the most sense, however with allies as good as the US... Maybe Gripen is starting to make sense...

[u/Wilson7277 → u/GripAficionado]

When buying weapons, you should always try to buy from the best gun shop in town.

Unless the owner of said gun shop starts threatening to withhold bullets, or says you're not allowed to buy from anyone but him, or repeatedly talks about taking your house.

[u/Aidan196 → u/Wilson7277]

Too bad the lunatic gunsmith also makes the barrel (engine) of the ikea gunsmith, so you're fucked either way

[u/bluestreak1103 → u/Aidan196]

Right now, all I'm hearing when someone brings that up is "One morbillion dollars to Rolls Royce and SNECMA (and Volvo for that matter), and if certain world powers are going to be treating major bedrock treaties like suggestions, well I guess the TRIPS Agreement on intellectual property can be treated like a suggestion too for national/regional security reasons, you know, just like [gestures in the general direction of West Taiwan]."

[u/miarsk → u/bluestreak1103]

Imagine the country getting itself invaded and destroyed because of  honoring IP laws

[u/MildGenevaSuggestion → u/Wilson7277]

On the flip side the flat pack packaging makes the Grippen more cost effective. And we get assembly jobs, free Allen keys and extra screws.

[u/ThirstyWolfSpider → u/Wilson7277]

Or has a remote lock they can activate on the gun.

[u/RussiaIsBestGreen → u/GripAficionado]

Why don’t Canadians just walk in and steal some F-35s? They can usually blend in if they don’t talk too much.

[u/TacticalMicrowav3 → u/RussiaIsBestGreen]

Just change your address to read "China" and apparently we'll just mail you the parts

[u/Timmymagic1 → u/GripAficionado]

The smartest move for Canada is to continue with the contracted 30 x F-35...can't get out of that one now...

Assign them to NORAD or NATO as a deployable capability...

Then ask UK and Italy for 50-60 Typhoon Tranche 1 on a dirt cheap deal, as they're being retired with over half their airframe hours left...(Germany and Spain also retiring theirs so >100 low mileage fighters available...).

Replace the remaining F/A-18 with Typhoon....

Then go all in on GCAP from 2040....

GCAP is the ideal fighter for Canada...enormous range, LO and twin engined....and ITAR free with zero US content...from countries that can be depended upon...including the motherland...

[u/dasunt → u/GripAficionado]

I wouldn't blame Canada if they refused to buy warplanes from the nation that's been threatening to invade them.

I'd like to say it's an aberration, but we are one hell of a bender south of the 49th parallel. Some of our former friends are unlikely to forget.

[u/GripAficionado → u/dasunt]

Yeah, the damage to international relations in just the last two years has been something.

On the upside the rest of the allies takes strategic autonomy more seriously.

[u/smaug13 → u/GripAficionado]

The US didn't want the autonomy part though, just the well-armed part. Putin made an undeniable case for that already in 2022, well, also in 2014 but we took that less seriously, and the proper arming of EU got kicked into gear. With US stuff, as the US likes to see, but then Trump came along to make his undeniable case to not do that in 2025, well, also in 2016 but we took that less seriously, again, and the EU is now kicking into gear to invest in strategic autonomy and buy EU&UK instead of US. 

(Also funny that you name the whole "strategic autonomy" remark by Macron during Bidens because that sure kicked up a storm and from what I remember the US and people here did not like that at all because it distancing from the US a bit, and now, well, here we are)

[u/GripAficionado → u/smaug13]

It's also a bit funny how Trump recently threatened to stop/pause the PURL initiative where Europe funds buying of US equipment for Ukraine... Talk about shooting yourself in the foot if that was paused just to try to spite Ukraine. That's someone else funding your military complex and you'd threaten to stop/pause it...

Well, if he wants even more focus on European strategic autonomy, that would be one way to do it.

[u/smaug13 → u/GripAficionado]

Nah that is just peak Art of the Deal way to go about it. He just gets so much leverage out of this one thing, to both sell and whithold the privilege to unless demands are met!? You don't need to know how to get others to want to work with you if you can hold those in dire need of your help hostage.

And well as an euro my teeth are gnashing every time I hear about it, that is how you know it is a good deal! I wish we had the arms manufacturing to tell him to suck an urethra, but at least it is being worked on. The euro Patriot equivalent in the Asters for the SAMP/T is having its  productionrate upped, so is the euro APKWS equivalent the FZ275 LGR/FZ123 guided rockets(which name it is isn't entirely clear to me) (this strongly looks to be thanks to a helpful past US, or the Brits, as the same Belgian Thales had an unguided rocket tested to be compatible with the APKWS kit), and Ukraine recently got manufacturing rights for both the Patriot and APKWS equivalents. The EU+UK is making do with what it got, but sadly it is not enough for Russias current war industry. So, we are stuck getting Art of the Deal'd for now.

[u/LordBrandon → u/GripAficionado]

Canada will still have F-35 just not as many. It's probably a good idea to have a mix of stealth and non stealth.

[u/si_de → u/GripAficionado]

Trump is one Big Mac away from designating Canada an enemy,"'no more F35's for you!!".

[u/UsualBeginning3976 → u/GripAficionado]

It all depends on what the Defence Investment Agency (the crown corp now responsible for procurement) thinks.

[u/Devourer_of_felines → u/GripAficionado]

If we inked a Gripen deal today we wouldn’t see delivery of new air frames for a decade. Now admittedly Canada’s military is long past its glory days, i don’t think we’re quite at the flying 4th gens from the late 2030s to 2070s tier of military just yet

[u/Wilson7277]

Original video from 2016. Every once in a while I feel compelled to post this, then feel I've missed my chance when current events shift. But for some reason things keep cycling back around to the same old topic.

[u/Jam-Boi-yt → u/Wilson7277]

Ngl I thought you were fucking with us when you said it was from 2016. Holy shit that is so on the nose.

[u/RedTheGamer12 → u/Jam-Boi-yt]

Time is a flat circle.

[u/GripAficionado → u/Wilson7277]

It was before its time.

[u/Jonas_Venture_Sr → u/Wilson7277]

I just drove from Niagara Fall to Syracuse, wish I had known there was Return to Syracuse music.

[u/Corporeal_Observer]

Upvote for Rick Mercer

[u/super__hoser → u/Corporeal_Observer]

He is a national treasure. 

[u/Wilson7277 → u/Corporeal_Observer]

Legend.

[u/Quirky_Inflation]

May I interest you in some Rafale ? 

[u/Wilson7277 → u/Quirky_Inflation]

Appoint me governor general. I will immediately dissolve parliament, declare a royal dictatorship, and use my newfound powers to plug this country right into the onion-industrial complex.

It will be a glorious few months right up until the French elections, at which point my gambit will backfire horrifically.

[u/KriosXVII → u/Quirky_Inflation]

We would be interested in some fully loaded   Le Triomphant-class submarine

[u/Joziu_Cycu]

It's not "the Ukraine", it's "Ukraine".

[u/Wilson7277 → u/Joziu_Cycu]

I know, but back in 2016 one could be forgiven for not getting it right.

[u/Bot1-The_Bot_Meanace → u/Wilson7277]

Yup, strikes me more as not knowing about cultural sensitivities than buying into Russian framing

[u/theKINGof_clearwater → u/Joziu_Cycu]

I’m a real “80’s guy,” I call it the Ukrainian oblast. Wish I could call it Ukraine, but I gotta stick to the bit to truly enjoy my personal computer and blockbuster. One day when this dang Cold War ends.

[u/naked_short]

Incredible

[u/Significant-Horror]

Holy shit! Wasn't expecting to see Rick Mercer on NCD!

[u/jamesbeil]

Three rounds? The South Essex can manage two on a good day!