r/NonCredibleDefense • u/afrikatheboldone • 1d ago
Arsenal of Democracy 🗽 Here's a totally uninfluenced scenario, have fun.
Reverse Final Countdown; Asian countries are brought to mid-1945 to aid as a last-stand against the US.
A portal has been opened by japanese scientists, dramatically sacrificing every military asset they had to the gods of hypothetical scenarios, and after negotiations, the modern asian countries decide to help with fighting the US. Anything can be brought through the portal except buildings and nuclear weapons, as they might detonate.
The world in 1945 stays the same, except for all the new manpower, material and tech coming from the portal. Pre-Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Germany has been defeated and the US stands alone facing this new threat.
Some other rules may appear in future iterations, feel free to modify anything yourself.
EDIT: as most people are having trouble with China, it is excluded.
Countries included are Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, Indonesia, Philippines, Malaysia. Added countries are the Koreas, Taiwan and Japan itself.
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u/Immediate-Spite-5905 Do you see torpedo boats? 1d ago
I'm pretty sure it would take a legitimate act of god to have any of the modern Asian countries to stand with Imperial fucking Japan
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u/DustyOwl 1d ago
Post OP really being out here with zero understanding of why there even was a Pacific theater of ww2 in the first place lmao
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u/afrikatheboldone 1d ago
No, I know about the politics leading up to the Pacific war, this is just a hypothetical scenario where somehow the US is a bigger threat in the future than Japan can be, a sort of dealing with the devil.
After the conflict with the US they can just go beat up Japan if they wanted to themselves.
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u/DustyOwl 1d ago
Buddy, you clearly said in your shitpost and I quote "The reason is tariffs and 20$ Big Macs". If that is somehow a bigger threat than Imperial Japan enslaving your entire population, assaulting your women, bayonetting their pregnant bellies and mass firing squads for random "enemy collaborators" (or as you so eloquently put it, "politics") then I think you have your priorities entirely out of whack.
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u/afrikatheboldone 1d ago
The same argument can be made about the other recent "European vs African nations" scenario. Everyone hates eachother and they would almost never work together.
The point is to hypothesize a war, time portals are also not real. It's all fiction.
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u/DustyOwl 1d ago
The point is that you are hypothesizing a war in a very specific time frame, with very specific countries from a very specific 2026 that just isn't going to happen in any conceivable scenario. You might as well just say that this takes place in an alternate Command&Conquer timeline where the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere was established after ww2 and exists to present day.
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u/Immediate-Spite-5905 Do you see torpedo boats? 17h ago
this is like taking a deal with Cthulu to go fight your school bully
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u/wily_virus 1d ago
Yes the moment every south-east Asian nation arrives, all of them will dogpile Japan with or without US.
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u/OmegaResNovae 12h ago edited 11h ago
I mean, there's always the option of going back in time to aid Imperial Japan in subduing China completely (and parting it out) in exchange for Imperial Japan withdrawing from their countries earlier or helping them overthrow their European colonizers earlier. Maybe also aiding Japan with invading Russia and taking over a good portion of East Russia, carving out an Alaska-sized section for themselves above Manchuko/Japanese Manchuria.
South Korea in particular could negotiate with Imperial Japan to allow for complete democratic control of Korea and a bit of Ex-Chinese mainland, basically removing the North/South issue.
And it's not like some Asian countries weren't on neutral-friendly terms with Imperial Japan; Burma and Indonesia were hoping for Imperial Japan to help them overthrow their European colonizers, and Thailand had been friends with Japan in an effort to boost their own political value in Asia, until Japan invaded. Iraq itself was very friendly with Imperial Japan, and politically attempted to support Japan, but given the distance, the aid and support they could provide was very limited. Iran too was also friendly to Imperial Japan.
There's also the exiled Indian Nationalists who were willing to help Japan in exchange for helping them take control of India from Britain, and same for the Malayans who also wanted Imperial Japan's help in overthrowing British colonization of British Malay (which would later eventually lead to the formation of Malaysia after WWII).
Hell, even the Philippines had a few small separatist groups that hated American colonization, and while smaller than the rest of the Philippines who loved America, they supported Imperial Japan on the condition they help kick the Americans out for good.
Then there's Cambodia, Laos, and Vietnam, which were under French Vichy control. France let Imperial Japan set up shop locally and had peaceful trading with Imperial Japan, and when the French Vichy lost control due to issues back in Europe, Japan took control and helped the three set up their own governments, even if they did serve as puppet governments to Japan. When Japan fell, their governments reformed and eventually led to their independence.
Basically, Imperial Japan didn't completely burn their bridges (and a large part of what got burned was due to an out-of-control IJA and IJN ignoring rules and orders), and there's some seeds among the various Asian countries that could be used to explain why the would support Imperial Japan as opposed to trying to bomb them.
There's also the fact that it would change Future Japan into Imperial Japan thanks to Future Japan wanting to correct its past, but armed with the knowledge of the future, they would likely work to cease further expansion and instead focus on creating their version of the EU under a modified Greater East Asia Co‑Prosperity Sphere (GEACPS), and an Asian version of NATO. One formed from the Future Asian countries who not only worked to aid Imperial Japan, but also worked alongside Imperial Japan to bring about their countries' independence and growth sooner too. There's also the possibility of Future Japan also helping to speed up Imperial Japan's own nuclear R&D (the IJN one cancelled due to the crisis of conscience of the scientists involved, and another cancelled because the IJA thought it would never become viable in time), which would solve some of the power crisis as well as offer a MAD option that also causes America to hesitate in dropping their bomb. As well as later lead to nuclear-powered warships given Japan's heavy dependence on coal and diesel at the time.
Conversely, this could either weaken or strengthen an American alliance in the future, though given how Current Japan is winning the cultural war, Future Imperial Japan would probably want to also keep that advantage via their anime, including also slowly stealing the US auto market via Toyota/Honda/Nissan.
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u/marek_intan 1d ago
That's a lot of countries that suddenly forgives Imperial Japan lmao
That being said, I don't think there's much that the 1945 Americans can do if the Japanese can get fully-trained and equipped soldiers from the future. I highly doubt that anyone in 1945 can beat a squadron of fighter jets armed with a steady stream of modern anti-ship missiles
It'd be a wood chipper for men and ships
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u/Traumerlein 1d ago
Which ofcourse relays on said stuff actually makeong it to the past before current time America takrs them out. Somehow i doubt they will just watch along
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u/PlasticImpact8515 18h ago
Them not being mentioned in the scenario would indicate that they, like everything outside the US in 1945 and SE Asia in 2026, is excluded. Probably the same magic dome that made people stop hating Imperial Japan
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u/Traumerlein 10h ago
Hmm, under that assumption, anythikg that isnt a domestic wepone system wpukd be doomed to run out of ammo and spare parts
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u/PlasticImpact8515 10h ago
That is, presumably, meant to be offset by "maintains full production as if nothing happened" but then again most of these scenarios aren't well thought out beyond the basics of the matchup.
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u/Traumerlein 10h ago
I dod interpret that part to only mean donestic production, but yeah, the answer enterly depends on how clarify the details
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u/eetsumkaus 16h ago
There's a lot of things the US can do: hunker down and keep building until they exhaust their weapons. The US can build 1945 equipment far faster than it will take mid 20th century Asia to get an advanced supply chain up and running for modern weapons. And they won't have backward compatibility.
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u/Historian25 1d ago
Filo here. I doubt tarrifs or a 200% increase in the price of Big Macs would even dent Filipino worship of USA circa 1945. We still worship the period lol. Not that we're really contributing anything to the campaign. But we'd probably switch sides immediately. lol.
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u/afrikatheboldone 1d ago
I know I know, it's obviously a bit of an excuse. More realistically would be mistreatment coming from the administration and other threats. Or possibly creating Skynet in the future, that makes people decide it's definitely worth it to fight US hegemony by going to where it started.
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u/TheteanHighCommand totally credible SKK of 130+ shipgirls 13h ago
"Okay Asia, today you choose between destroying ai and removing your tariffs from the US or going ham on Imperial Japan"
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u/jjmerrow The F-35 made me trans🏳️⚧️ 1d ago
Jesus, what black magic did you do to get fucking Korea on the side of the Imperial Japanese?
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u/afrikatheboldone 1d ago
Maybe less so their side and more so ally of convenience. Modern day Korea happens elects an isolationist nationalist ruler (possibly linked to a North Korean psyop), that wants to get rid of US troops, and the US decides to stage a coup Venezuela style.
That or Hirohito's top scientists hypnotise everyone into submission.
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u/kingkahngalang 1d ago
First thing South Korea is going to do is send our engineers to North Korea to nuke Japan together lol. Hating on Japan is like the only thing that the north and south agree on
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u/WOKinTOK-sleptafter Raptorsexual 1d ago
Wasn’t there a whole South Korean quasi holiday thing back when Oppenheimer came out?
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u/jjmerrow The F-35 made me trans🏳️⚧️ 1d ago
Huh. So, in this case then, I'm more interested to see what happens after the US-Japan war. Because the whole "enemy of my enemy is my friend" thing only lasts so long as there is an enemy of your enemy.
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u/afrikatheboldone 1d ago
Potentially they will ask Japan for heavy concessions, or war if they can't afford them.
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u/dasunt 10h ago
That's kind of like saying modern Poland goes back in time to WWII and becomes an ally of Nazi Germany.
Woah boy, that is hand waving a lot of history.
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u/afrikatheboldone 10h ago
The 1939 Europe vs Africa scenario is similar in that regard. Will probably fix this scenario in these coming days though since many people found issue with it.
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u/WiSeWoRd rickshaw mounted AAA 1d ago
Dawg, there is no way any of these countries would come around to help Imperial Japan
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u/spaceCADETzoom 1d ago
Indeed, even Japan would have pause to help Imperial Japan. OP has a flawed premise and should have stuck to a simple reverse-Final Countdown where it’s one JMSDF Kongo-class. Uh, has anyone read or watched Zipang?
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u/Rabid-Wendigo 1d ago edited 1d ago
The real question in this scenario is how quickly does 1945 USA figure it out and begin scaling nuclear weapon production.
Because if you have j-20 vs hellcats and b-24, and cold war diesel electric submarines sent back to fight WWII subs, the only counter USA would have is throwing nukes like candy
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u/JumpyLiving FORTE11 (my beloved 😍) 1d ago
The delivery systems to throw nukes are the problem there. B-29s may be good, but still get deleted by SAMs and modern aircraft, and the technology for miniaturized warheads and missiles with enough range is still a while off in '45
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u/Splabooshkey 1d ago
It wouldn’t be survivable in any capacity, but perhaps nukes delivered in suicide missions by submarine could at the very least cripple some major bases, should the bombs be set off at ground level right there
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u/JumpyLiving FORTE11 (my beloved 😍) 1d ago
They'd still have a lot of trouble actually getting there, especially after the first one, as 1940s subs are not having a good time against modern anti-submarine warfare, but they'd have the best chance to actually deliver a weapon
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u/afrikatheboldone 1d ago
Thinking about it, what would be the acceptable casualty number to deploy a nuclear warhead?
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u/TrainDestroyer 1d ago
I feel like that would depend on the target. If it was aimed at an enemy's central command it would be a lot higher than if you decided to blow up a town that was making millions of bullets.
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u/throfofnir 1d ago
WW2 USAAF built 4000 B-29s and over 10k B-17 and B-25 (each, with production wrapping in 1945). Dunno if that's more than all existing SEA SAMs (it might be!) but I expect they could saturate local air defenses. (Just in terms of missiles; I think it's even worse because most modern SAM systems can't even track WW2-sized numbers of targets.) It would be expensive, for sure, but I wouldn't bet against the A-bomb or two in the third flight of 100 bombers through the exact same corridor.
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u/DeluxianHighPriest 1d ago
The problem is that while the US absolutely had the planes for a brute force saturation attack like that, they lacked the bombs - assuming we insist on the A-Bomb, anyways.
Producing nukes was neither a fast nor an easy affair back then, and the US iirc had ALREADY planned to drop every bomb as soon as it came off the production line. There WAS NO stockpile at this time.
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u/throfofnir 1d ago
There were at least three Fat Man devices basically immediately available after the first use (in August 1945.) One of these became the "demon core", the others used in Crossroads. At least two more were made with advanced cores and used in tests a couple years later. There were also 5 more Little Boy eventually made. Possibly those could have been pushed forwards if wartime conditions continued; Manhattan Project funding did fall off a cliff immediately.
So there were some options, but delivery would likely have slowed past the first 5-10. Would that have persuaded a magically-enhanced Japan, which knew this? Hard to say. That's a lot of damage.
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u/DeluxianHighPriest 23h ago
Absolutely, it would have.
If the bombs dropped.
Generally speaking, nuke bombers flew alone because it was not worth risking several planes to the detonation if only one had a bomb to begin with.
A single bomber flying alone in this period is precisely two things for a modern air defense network:
A.) An utterly trivial target.
B.) The single reddest flag that it's carrying a nuke possible.
They wouldn't even need a missile. A radar lock and a good burst from an on-board Vulcan will take those bombers down at a moments notice.
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u/Significant_Quit_674 18h ago
Fairly quickly a long range bombing run simmilar to operation Black Buck against the hanfort site would have ended the production of any further nuclear weapons.
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u/TheAzureMage 1d ago
The plans for the invasion of Japan made provision for the use of up to fifteen nukes.
Not building up nukes was never a consideration in 45. Nor did we fear using them.
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u/wasmic 1d ago
In this scenario, the US is just about to begin building and testing nuclear weapons. But current-year China also has the expertise and knowledge to build nuclear weapons, and can probably scale it a lot faster than 1945 USA.
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u/VortexButWithAOne retired warthunder veteran 🇺🇲🫡 1d ago
Assuming this is immediately after V-E day, America will test its first nuke in less than 2 months. Meanwhile, China and Japan have been largely devastated, Okinawa is already captured, Tokyo has already been fire bombed. There is no way either country has the infrastructure to support nuclear weapons production. Japan would have to start sending thousands of tons of concrete, rebar, sheet metal, etc through through the time portal just to have the materials to build the facilities to produce the weapons. Really, logistics is working against the Asian Faction, as they certainly don't have agricultural basis to support the standing militaries of modern China, Japan, and the Koreas.
I guess it boils down to how much materiel can they send back in time at a time. Think about the thousands of gallons of fuel needed to satisfy the JMSDF navy, the PLAN, the PLAAF, and the JASDF, and whatever Korea is bringing...
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u/akintu 1d ago
They have perfect historical intel and know every US facility involved in Project Manhattan, every scientist, where they live, etc. So I don’t see the US nuclear program surviving.
If they were particularly devious about it, they might try bringing the material to build a three stage fusion bomb through the portal and assembling it in 1945. Drop it over Trinity at exactly 5:28am, July 16 1945 and let whoever is left of the nuclear program noodle over how their calculations and understanding of physics were so wrong.
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u/afrikatheboldone 1d ago
That's actually genius, killing the program before it's even a thing. I wonder if that would scare them off building another one.
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u/WOKinTOK-sleptafter Raptorsexual 1d ago
How would they fly across the pacific, fly over the west coast and deep into New Mexico without the extensive network of refueling aircraft stationed at airbases in the pacific needed by the US to do the same with its big bois? The US controls all islands in the Pacific needed for staging refueling aircraft, so unless they can capture those islands and extensively configure them to support large cargo aircraft and hold onto them against US counterattacks, no Chinese bombers are gonna be flying in from the mainland. AFAIK, no Chinese naval aircraft can carry nukes either.
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u/akintu 21h ago
It would be a significant effort no question and pretty much at the edge of what is possible. Delivery and device size are still problems for sure. Tsar Bomba is absurdly big, 30 tons and 26 feet long.
Japan and SK both have refuelers that have both the cargo capacity we need and can take on more fuel in the air. We turn one into a drone remotely controlled by the other, and actually assemble the bomb in the cargo bay of the drone.
They’ll refuel over the Bering sea and go through northern Alaska and come down the Rockies and central US where there is zero radar coverage. We also have historical records and a pretty good idea where radar is which helps.
So the drone delivers right on time, the controller flies back out, refuels again over the Bering sea and heads home, with no one any the wiser.
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u/Reality-Straight 3000 🏳️🌈 Rheinmetall and Zeiss Lasertank Logisticians of 🇩🇪 5h ago
Just jam the radar, the concept of radar being jammable doesn't really exist yet so at best they would assume a technical issue
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u/akintu 5h ago
Mystery technical issues on the same night the atom bomb test explodes with 2600x the yield that ought to have been possible? I don’t want anyone making connections yet.
I would probably not even reveal my EW capabilities for while, until the US built something capable of actually intercepting at the speed and altitude we can fly at.
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u/Carpe_deis 3h ago
"drone" are you kidding? you'd have THOUSANDS of japanese patroits lining up to pilot a 777 with a tsar bomba built into it on a one way trip
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u/Cultural_Blueberry70 1d ago edited 1d ago
Regarding fuel, can they just put a bunch of pipelines through the portal to supply oil and various oil products? What about a fleet of super tankers, if buildings cannot travel, are tankers maybe also too big? The logistics is also inconvenient in general since there are no containers in 1945, ports and all other infrastructure worked very differently back then.
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u/afrikatheboldone 1d ago
You have to physically move the object through the portal. That is why buildings can not go through it, and since it's intermitent, having a fixed pipeline would mean snapping it and thus cutting supply when the portal is inactive. Could theoretically fix it by having a flexible material pipe that can be retracted once the portal is turned off, kind of like air-to-air refueling.
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u/hokie18 1d ago
If the portal is only available during daylight like the OP suggested earlier, how long is it open before USA45 finds out about it and starts sending waves of B-29s and carrier strikes against it instead of other targets? Does future Asia send through enough AA missiles to keep the US from sending day-long raids against the portal site and turning the 45 side into a crater?
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u/Reality-Straight 3000 🏳️🌈 Rheinmetall and Zeiss Lasertank Logisticians of 🇩🇪 5h ago
I mean, might be impossible for the us to do if asi just turns thier runways into craters with a few jdams
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u/Zucchinibob1 1d ago
Don't forget that the Allies had already sunk the only shipment of slightly-more-enriched-than-natural-Uranium that the Germans tried to send to Japan
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u/Reality-Straight 3000 🏳️🌈 Rheinmetall and Zeiss Lasertank Logisticians of 🇩🇪 5h ago
i mean, noone said anything about not bringing parts of a nuke over
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u/Reality-Straight 3000 🏳️🌈 Rheinmetall and Zeiss Lasertank Logisticians of 🇩🇪 1d ago
how would you ever get a bomber through a modern air defense grid thogh?
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u/Significant_Quit_674 18h ago
In 1945 the US was not able to produce nuclear weapons in large quantities, there was not only a bottleneck with plutonium production, but an even worse one with the neutron initiators.
And the other issue with delivery systems would be that 2020s era air and naval assets have sensors advanced enough to track them down long before they hit.
And once nearby bases are destroyed/taken over, even on a suicide run a B-29 wouldn't have the range to do the job.
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u/MianMDude 13h ago
Good god, imagine a certain Pacific Theater American General if you gave him an actual good reason to throw nukes like candy 💀
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u/Traumerlein 1d ago
by mid 45 the USA was planing on maleing one nuke per 7 days, slowly rampikg up from there. Nit enough to turn the tied unless the Asians run out if ammo to intercept the nuke planes
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u/Rabid-Wendigo 1d ago
If china is excluded from this scenario America wins. Even if it’s one navy diving team at a time with a nuclear briefcase we will get those nukes to their targets.
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u/Traumerlein 1d ago
I agree somewhat. It certainly comes down how willing the US is to sacrafice ships and men, and the 700.000 purple hearths for the invasion are anything to go by, then US has the necessary endurance.
The problem with modenr wepones is that they are unreasonably expensive. You will not male enough missoles to deal with the USAAF. The question then is: can they sink the carries before dive bombers swarm them?
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u/TrainDestroyer 1d ago
I feel like you'd potentially get the benefit of the US not wanting to sacrifice carriers, but you also run into the problem by that point that if OP is suggesting its post-VE day (May 8th 1945) you've already got Okinawa with troops landed on it, Taiwan (Called Formosa then) having its airfields bombed by the Royal Navy, and the US launching massive low level bomber raids on Japanese Cities.
Plus even if they opened the time Portal on the 8th, they only have until August before the Soviets declare war on Japan (And this theoretical massive army) and now have more fronts to fight on.
Plus if air superiority couldn't be secured, I could see the US finding some very... unorthodox ways to get nukes to the mainland.
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u/Traumerlein 1d ago
This actually opens a whole mew can of worms. OP technicly specifyed that the future country only fight the US. This render the japanese doomed. Their allies can propably retake sole islands, but not realisticly push deep into US terretory, so they cant win, just stall. Meanwhike the Americans will jist put the Atomic bombs on Royal Airfoce planes and nuke the hone islands unimpetrd, followed by a sovjet storming of the Chinese front.
The end resukt woukd be that nothing changes for Japan in a meaningfull way
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u/TrainDestroyer 1d ago
I mean even without the RAF planes carrying the nukes, the US could likely still get the bombs into Japan, it would just have to be a raid larger than two planes.
But I'm with you, due to how late the US got in on it, and assuming the rest of the war goes the same way despite the time portal being opened, the Japanese still lose. Heck if anything I'd argue it loses faster because if the remaining Japanese Forces are all sacrificed to open the time portal, it takes time to get troops into positions, so Okinawa is probably gone before they can roll in troops to save it, that changes the timeline enough to where who knows if they'd actually counter the US.
Because that's the other thing that OP doesn't take into account, once this new shit rolls out, any past events are now in Flux and you're back to the usual fog of war. You basically only get one shot at them
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u/Traumerlein 1d ago
Yeah, in all lieklyhood the US of the time portal reality will still give out purple hearths meant for the invasion of japan till the 2040s
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u/Zalapadopa 🇸🇪 Perpetual NATO Applicant 🇸🇪 1d ago
I think the current-year asian countries would be more interested in obliterating China than fighting the US, but okay.
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u/Neat_Walk8420 1d ago
Did you miss the 20$ Big Macs?
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u/BugRevolution 1d ago
I thought it was 205 big macs.
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u/TrainDestroyer 1d ago
America dropped 205 big macs on every East Asian nation, and because of that they all were willing to sign a temporary peace treaty to do a time war against America.
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u/afrikatheboldone 1d ago
205 Big Macs of Rubio
(In before they name a nuclear weapon after the Big Mac)
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u/TrainDestroyer 1d ago
I hate that I could actually see this admin doing it if we were still developing new nuclear weapons
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u/afrikatheboldone 1d ago
Maybe SEA countries band together to form an economic union after being heavily affected by the Iran war.
They decide to go a third way instead of joining up with China, people elect radical leaders that are against the US administration after a CIA report is leaked involving potential bribes and coups planned to rein into the US circle again.
After some years of escalating tensions, one of the American held islands is invaded, thus provoking a regional war. China uses the opportunity to invade Taiwan, and the US, being cornered, launches 205 tactical nuclear warheads into enemy military assets, as the Iran war has taken a massive toll on conventional equipment.
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u/wikingwarrior GAY MARRIAGE IS NON NEGOTIABLE 1d ago
Chiang Kai-Shek sticks his head in a bucket and cries until he drowns himself when his already damaged and thinly stretched forces start taking cruise missiles for no comprehensible reason.
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u/SoftCatMonster 1d ago
I’m sure someone in the group can spare a couple planes and a handful of JDAMs to drop on both Mao’s and Chiang’s foreheads as an opening move before moving onto the Americans.
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u/Crazy_Willow8585 1d ago
I think most of us would be even more interested in obliterating Imperial Japan, except for maybe thailand
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u/JumpyLiving FORTE11 (my beloved 😍) 1d ago edited 1d ago
This probably ends in a stalemate. The asian countries have enough firepower to keep the US out, but probably won't be able to stage an effective invasion and occupation.
US production capability means little, as they can be bombed by modern missiles and bombers with very little effective defense, while asian production capacities are safe in the future, only sending materiel back.
Reverse engineering is also relatively useless, as while the US might be able to reverse engineer stuff, they lack decades of industrial development to actually make any of it in any reasonable quantity.
The main deviation from this I can see is the asian countries actually managing to reduce the US capacity to make war to the point they have to surrender.
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u/Wolodymyr2 1d ago
Through OP mentions in another comment that China is included in that scenario, and if they are included, Asian countries then have manpower and industry to invade mainland USA.
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u/afrikatheboldone 1d ago
I have decided to edit China out of the scenario after giving too many problems itself. Sorry for any inconvenience.
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u/_probably_autistic 1d ago
They have the manpower and industry but no logistics for a cross ocean expedition
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u/Sir_Budginton 1d ago
Not at the start, but they'd be able to build it in a few years. The US navy of 1945 won't be able to stop a modern navy, and whatever reverse engineering the US manage in the few years it takes won't be close to enough.
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u/a_mannibal 15h ago
A few days into the build-up, the modern countries go "huh, what are we doing?".
Modern Japan curb stomps Imperial Japan, then everybody decides to sail up the Yangtze and make sure Chang Kai Shek doesn't get his ass kicked and plays nice after.
SEA countires start insulting each other over the spils. Soviet Union tries to divide and conquer and insults random SEA nation. SEA does SEA and decides nobody insults SEA but SEA and insults its way through everything east of the urals.
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u/subsniper321 1d ago
You’re all talking about the major ammunition limitations for the Asian countries regarding modern anti ship missiles and torpedoes, but you’re totally forgetting to account for the stockpiles of guided bombs and the absurd performance difference between WW2 era aircraft and a 4th gen or better jet fighter, the modern aircraft can easily cruise at altitudes WW2 aircraft and antiaircraft artillery are outright unable to reach, so they’d be able to plink 2000lbs Paveways through the decks of carriers and BBs, and their stockpiles of laser seekers and dumb bombs are surely in the 10s of thousands, particularly with South Korea included. Additionally, regarding air to air, even once the modern fighters run low on missiles they still have such an absurd performance advantage and sensor advantage that they could use their guns to slaughter American aircraft at night and in bad weather, and in good weather to do boom and zoom tactics at speeds and with accuracy that ME-262 pilots could’ve only dreamed of.
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u/Significant_Quit_674 18h ago
To add on this:
A modern fighter/bomber can still drop cheap, simple, dumb, unguided bombs.
And do so at higher precision and speed than anything around in WW2.
Especialy the F-35 would be interesting due to its super low radar signature and avionics, allowing it to casualy drop explosives onto unsuspecting ships at potentialy supersonic speeds and fly away at uncatchable speeds before the bomb has reached the ship.
But then again, even a Blackburn Buckaneer would be able to attack with near impunity by flying transsonic at sea level and dropping unguided bombs against enemy targets.
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u/TheteanHighCommand totally credible SKK of 130+ shipgirls 13h ago
"Hey willy why's the sea flying up over there"
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u/gorebello Bored god made humans for war. God is in NCD. 10h ago
The will to fight against the US is non existent to modern soldiers. They don't want an imperialistic Japan. Ja pan grew a lot after the war and it's a big risk to change such outcome.
The US would fail to have air superiority. But after a few months there won't be supplies to run the ships anymore. The quality supplies would make better planes, but with bad pilots Japan would maybe tank further, but be on a blockade.
Assuming there won't be enough food comming through the portal the US can starve Japan into submission.
Even losing ships the US would have a big industrial advantage to recover the losses. And the supply lines intact.
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u/Anubis17_76 1d ago
Does China count as SEA Country?
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u/afrikatheboldone 1d ago edited 1d ago
In this scenario, the Koreas and Japan are included, (should have specified, my bad) EDIT China excluded
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u/RavyNavenIssue NCD’s strongest ex-PLA soldier 1d ago
Interesting that you included East Asian nations (Japan, South/North Korea, Taiwan) as part of South-East Asia?
But excluded four genuine South East Asian nation (Myanmar, Brunei, East Timor, Singapore), one of which operates the most advanced Air Force and Navy in SEA.
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u/Svyatoy_Medved 1d ago
This is actually an interesting one.
Bottom line is, the US diplomatic stance is only absolutely hostile to Japan out of that set. It’s going to be much easier for US politicians to understand and accept that there was a sudden change of government in the occupied territories of Japan than it will be to accept that Japan itself no longer exists.
Usually in these scenarios, the answer is “the modern country tries to conciliate, is rebuffed, fucks up the downtime military colossally and easily, then negotiates again and wins.” But the US in 1945 might actually have a fighting chance against Japan.
Japanese Kongo-class carry 8 Harpoons, 6 torpedoes, and 90 AAMs. Assume all 36 destroyers in the Navy are this class to be safe, and assume national stockpiles allow for 4 reloads. This might be a substantial overestimate: Japan reportedly has 2000 Patriots and 120 12-missile launchers, meaning enough to salvo every launcher once and two-thirds of them a second time. But anyway, that comes out to 1400 Harpoons, 1,100 torpedoes, and 16,000 AAMs in the Navy.
The USN in 1945 was almost seven thousand ships. If every single missile fired killed a ship, the Japanese navy couldn’t sink even a majority. And Harpoons aren’t killing Iowas in a single hit. The air problem is even worse, the US manufactured 96,000 planes in 1944 alone. The US in WW2 was a colossus.
So most likely, Japan will try to negotiate, the US military and diplomatic system won’t really understand what’s going on and refuse, and Japan will sink a US task force. Then the rest of the modern countries will almost certainly jump ship and join the US, and everybody involved will have a really tough question.
Because Japan still has the firepower to hurt the US. They could inflict hundreds of thousands of casualties and could likely strategically bomb the continental US (I don’t know what their bomber and refueling capacity is like). But the US could plausibly fight through the technological overmatch and continue choking Japanese imports. They might not WANT to—once they have diplomatic relations with Vietnam, Taiwan, Philippines, etc, they’ll probably realize that Japan wasn’t lying and the Imperial Japanese really are gone. But on the other hand, this might be a great opportunity to break up the number 1 global competitor and steal all their good shit, with the help of a few modern warships from their new partners. How much blood is the US willing to spill, purely in the name of being economic kingpin? How far is Japan willing to bend to prevent that? Does South Korea stick with Japan or try to get in good with Washington early?
What does North Korea do?
Good post.
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u/SolarianIntrigue 1d ago
Japan can't reach CONUS at all. The jets just wouldn't be able to fly that far, perhaps if they got one of their not-carriers converted into an F-35B carrier and sailed it all the way across the pacific then they could harrass the west coast for a while
That being said you're not accounting for quicksink. You can absolutely sink most ships with those, even battleships would probably get fucked up. I don't know how many japan has in stock, but they're simple enough to design so they could mass produce their own. WW2 AA isn't hitting modern jets
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u/Svyatoy_Medved 1d ago
Japan has aerial refueling tankers, they can reach CONUS. OP says they don't have nukes, but Japan could develop a nuke in like a week. So they could launch a Black Buck-like mission to launch 1 standoff bomb at 1 US city, and hope we blink.
Quicksink is notable, I had forgotten, but it's also a bit engineered for today's targets. 1940s AA can't shoot down a fighter jet that's able to keep its distance, but they sure as shit can down a glide bomb--they were able to shoot down V1s, which aren't much bigger. Glide bombs work great against modern warships because modern warships can't afford to expend missiles on low-end threats and they rarely have enough guns to do otherwise, but WWII ships are made of guns. You'll never run the US out of 40mm shells.
I don't think the war can last long enough for mass production to be a factor. Tokyo can see the obvious economic crisis on the horizon, and the US is losing planes and boats like crazy. The war will be over in a few months, it's just a question of how favorable the peace is to the US.
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u/PraxicalExperience 21h ago
There's also the question: would the modern Japanese navy fight for Imperial Japan? It's entirely possible that they get there and go: "Uh, yeah, no, we gonna sit this one out." I don't think that most of the other SE Asian countries would either.
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u/ResidentBackground35 21h ago
It's also worth stressing logistics for the modern forces are going to be terrible for a long time. The materials required to maintain modern equipment just don't exist and will take years to get up and running. Ignoring things like microprocessors and clean rooms, even the steel used in the tools is unavailable and would require months to a year to start producing. Then do that for everything from jet fuel to missiles to digital screens.
Also worth noting that WW2 warships were much more heavily armored than modern ships (and thus shocking resistant to asms) and a naval shell would demolished a modern ship if it hit.
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u/SGTRoadkill1919 1d ago
The fact that SEA countries banded together for Imperial Japan is a miracle.
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u/ArgumentativeNerfer 1d ago
Imperial Japan?
South Korea takes one look and starts sending KF-15s to bomb the living sashimi out of Tokyo.
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u/Traumerlein 1d ago
"Hey America, can we have more spare parts and ammunition to go fight your past self?"
"Haha, no. You can have a bunch of nucklear warheads to your biggest citys though"
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u/k890 MIC Propaganda Connoisseur 1d ago
LeMay "Operation Starvation" got a priority, no matter how modern your ship is, even WWII era naval mines gonna fuck you up.
Other problem is situation in Japan, USAAF collapsed Home Island cargo transport both on sea (mines) and by land (bombing campaign on Japan railways). Civilian rations drop to as low as <1200 calories per day supplemented with silkworm shells, tree barks and plant roots in daily diet. Energy and fuel situation is also a disaster, Japan may have oil in today Malaysia and Indonesia, but by 1945 it didn't have much means to move unprocessed oil to Japan to refine it into oil. One of last stable sources of oil and oil based fuels by 1945 was shale rocks processing plants in Manchuria, distillation of pine roots and coal liquefaction in Manchuria and Japan. Manchuria and Korea is at edge of Soviet invasion merely weeks ahead, while what left from local Japan military is in tatters cutting off last stable resource center for Home Island
Japan is simply far too gone to last because at this point Japan is on final lap in "Tour de Fucked"
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u/PlasticCell8504 Reasonable USN Procurement Program 1d ago edited 1d ago
This is a very important point. By 1945, the Japanese home islands are surrounded with naval mines and had no capacity for production or transport of critical materials and war supplies.
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u/Zucchinibob1 1d ago
Post-Fix Mk14 USN subs were utterly brutal on Japanese shipping...
and all the mines quickly became even worse then the subs
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u/HalseyTTK 1d ago
It's not this scenario, but reverse Final Countdown already exists, it's called Zipang.
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u/MindlessScrambler 1d ago edited 1d ago
Leaving aside the elephant in the room that is the Chinese navy, though it’s an Asian country, it hardly counts as Southeast Asia, and including it would make the game unwinnable for everyone. I think that even without considering hard-kill measures, the modern team’s electronic warfare technological advantage would be decisive. Modern warships’ communications would be unbreakable for WWII US forces, even in theory, while the reverse would be essentially one-way intelligence transparency. Add to that the overwhelming jamming and spoofing capabilities of modern EW equipment against WWII radio sets, and you get a series of terrible scenes at sea:
For the WWII side, once a recon aircraft leaves the fleet’s line of sight, it’s effectively gone. The recon unit cannot report what it has scouted, and the carrier cannot guide it back, so the whole fleet is basically blind. Conversely, false intel would cause the carrier to launch its planes in the wrong direction, and those planes would then circle on the wrong heading until they run out of fuel, unable to find their target or return.
Battleships could be a bigger problem: apart from a few heavy anti-ship missiles or heavy aerial bombs, surface fleets don’t have a reliable way to sink them. But likewise, they can be guided into submarine ambush zones, and those modern heavy torpedoes capable of accurately tracking and hitting a ship’s propulsion system from dozens of kilometers away can safely remove them from any combat.
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u/polnikes 1d ago
Assuming they just don't decide to obliterate China first, going to give Asia the advantage here. The tech advancements would put them way above the US qualitatively in ways that would mystify the WW2 era-USN ("what do you mean they blew up a carrier group with missiles launched from beyond our aircrafts range and our radar couldn't detect?"), and it wouldn't take long for them to hit American industry, reducing the US' main quantitative advantage.
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u/Reality-Straight 3000 🏳️🌈 Rheinmetall and Zeiss Lasertank Logisticians of 🇩🇪 5h ago
The fuck you mean supersonic?
What is a supersonic?
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u/Rimfighter 1d ago
South East Asia curb stomps US naval and Air Forces. They don’t take the mainland however, war is negotiated after complete annihilation of US pacific forces.
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u/afrikatheboldone 1d ago
Not so sure about a complete annihilation of US pacific forces... SEA does not have the production capabilities of the US, they will eventually run out of modern munitions or not get them at such a quick pace. Is the average indonesian soldier ready to encounter marines that have had 4 years of brutal jungle combat? Island hopping won't be fun for them.
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u/Reality-Straight 3000 🏳️🌈 Rheinmetall and Zeiss Lasertank Logisticians of 🇩🇪 5h ago
I mean, just drop regular bombs from a jet, they are essentially untouchable
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u/PastAffect3271 1d ago
Especially if there's no China involved in this scenario, I don't know if they have enough long range stand off ammo to completely eliminate the sheer scale and mass of the US Navy at the end of the war, especially if full production continues in the wartime economy on the American side.
At its peak the the USN fielded about 6,700 commissioned warships (that number goes up to over 60,000 total vessels if you count all the small landing craft and auxilliary ships), not to mention the tens of thousands of aircraft and the amount of ships being put to sea on monthly, weekly, and even daily basis in 1945. The ASEAN countries could probably freely bomb the U.S. mainland and infrastructure therein though, if they manage to throw together a steady enough supply line.
Obviously the ASEAN team can deal one hell of a blow at the beginning but once all the ASCMs are spent and torpedoes are fired, there's still going to be thousands of ships and planes left in the USN, and that point it can turn into an old fashioned shootout while missiles are rationed and slowly replaced due to a lack of global production and shipping chains, and any battleship or cruiser with a war seasoned American crew in 1945 can probably outshoot any modern destroyer or frigate that usually only has a five inch gun and relatively inexperienced crew, regardless of modern targeting systems they probably couldn't penetrate heavy armor. I'm mostly talking out of my ass here though.
Nukes might be a smaller factor at the beginning because the ASEAN countries can just shoot down any slow moving bomber before they get close to anything.
I think they succeed in preventing an invasion or nuclear bombing of Japan though, probably keeping this in a stalemate for a while.
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u/Significant_Quit_674 18h ago
There is one thing you forgot:
range
Even a 16" gun has a shorter range than a cruise missile (or even regular anti ship missile).
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u/PastAffect3271 5h ago
Yeah I mentioned the ascms I’m just thinking about if there’s enough to stop the whole USN and what happens when they start rationing them or if they run out of
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u/Reality-Straight 3000 🏳️🌈 Rheinmetall and Zeiss Lasertank Logisticians of 🇩🇪 5h ago
i mean, 1945 anti air isnt even gonna know the Jet that just dropped a couple Bombs on thier ship is there till its turned around and out of range before the bombs, or the sonic boom, hit the ship and sink it.
You thought dive bombers were scary? Wait till you see a JDAM
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u/PastAffect3271 5h ago
Yeah I think that’s how ASEAN probably ends up with a win especially when they run out cruise missiles, just jets dropping functionally infinite bombs that AA/flak can’t do anything about
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u/Mysterious_Silver_27 21h ago
I don’t think the JMSDF have enough firepower to take out the entire US Pacific Fleet in 1945 but their submarines could probably get all the important battleships, carriers, cruisers etc with pretty much immunity from 1945 ASW assets
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u/Hinterwaeldler-83 1d ago
Grim Reapers searching for an idea for their next Sea Power video: write that down! Write that down!
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u/BusinessDuck132 1d ago
I think it depends on if china is involved. If yes, then no fucking shot, china wipes the floor. If no china, it’s still pretty low odds, but I don’t think they would be able to muster a land invasion of the states, but obviously modern aircraft would be able to take out most of the west coast. The US would have to be lucky and start to reverse engineer shit FAST, specifically SAMs and just general missile and standoff weapons. I think they have a chance tho, just with the sheer industrial might of the wartime US and how difficult a land invasion would be, they would have to play for time and defense
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u/Carpe_deis 4h ago
bro if china was involved they would, uh, get revenge for ww2, and wipe japan off the map, and then subjegate the USA and become china #1 150 years early.
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u/BusinessDuck132 4h ago
Yes but the hypothetical is that they work together. Don’t hypothetical the hypothetical situation man. Never go full hypothetical
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u/Reality-Straight 3000 🏳️🌈 Rheinmetall and Zeiss Lasertank Logisticians of 🇩🇪 5h ago
I dont think the us could reverse engineer much honestly, lacking computer chips etc.
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u/BusinessDuck132 5h ago
It would be very difficult and an uphill battle, but as long as china isn’t involved they have time. If they get lucky and manage to capture some tech I’m sure they could figure it out. With the amount of industry and money they had, plus the fact that they, ya know, figured out nuclear bombs, if they got some tech to reverse engineer I have confidence they could figure some shit out. I would be more concerned about manufacturing capability rather than the figuring things out. I’ll bet they could figure out pretty easily how a modern fighter jet works, building one is a very different beast
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u/PlasticCell8504 Reasonable USN Procurement Program 1d ago
The key question is how long is the portal open and does modern day USA know that there is a portal (can they do anything about it)?
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u/afrikatheboldone 1d ago
The portal is open every day they see fit, during local daytime (portal powered by sunlight). The US can be aware of the portal but it will mean a multi-temporal war, with unforeseen consequences if they decide to fight.
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u/PlasticCell8504 Reasonable USN Procurement Program 1d ago
What about the Allies? Do the British and Soviets help fight?
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u/afrikatheboldone 1d ago
They feel threatened over future US hegemony and decide to step aside from the conflict, only intervening on their historical fronts (India, Northeastern China, Papua NG).
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u/PlasticCell8504 Reasonable USN Procurement Program 1d ago
Fun. Is the Royal Navy in play? Also, is the modern day immediately affected by the changes caused by the portal or are they locked in their respective time zones until the portal goes away forever?
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u/afrikatheboldone 1d ago
It creates a sort of parallel universe, where some things do translate into modernity at random.
One can pass through the portal at any moment they like but take risk of getting illnesses due to very scientific cellular stuff.
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u/Wiz_Kalita 1d ago
North Korea launches an SLBM at the west coast. Without a nuclear warhead all it accomplishes is flattening a gas station in Portland. The American people decides that enough is enough and all forces are recalled.
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u/The_Real_Itz_Sophia frigate drowning in scs 1d ago
Nah, I'd win.
jokes aside, some filipinos will be switching sides
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u/chickenfriedrice416 i showed u my dongfeng pls respond 1d ago
I wanna see a scenario involving a timewarped North Korea, because they actually have some degree of autarky. So what if you sent them back to the time of the Boxer rebellion? Could they go so far as to usurp the Qing and found the Kim dynasty?
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u/chickenfriedrice416 i showed u my dongfeng pls respond 1d ago
South East Asian countries have an absolute fuck ton of mopeds. It will be like fucking Mad Max in the jungle.
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u/KimYewonSimp Guillin 164 x CCG 3104 🇵🇭🇵🇭🇵🇭 12h ago
Most of SEA got bumfucked by Imperial Japan so I'm not even sure how you can convince modern SEA countries to help them. Im pretty sure they're gonna "agree", then invade Japan for retribution the next.
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u/WalkingAFIViolation 7h ago
You're assuming modern Asian countries wouldn't immediately start bombing the daylight out of Japan worse than Americans did in WWII in revenge for IJA war crimes
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u/otuphlos 7h ago
To be far too credible, I feel this is another Germany could have won if they weren't nazis scenario. While it technically does not remove Pearl Harbor, the Japanese government has to change significantly to bring the other Asian nations in.
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u/Matar_Kubileya Zionist Jihadism with Feminist Characteristics 2h ago
The idea that modern China or Korea would fight with Imperial Japan might just be the most noncredible thing I've ever seen in this subreddit.
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u/vercingetafix 1d ago
What's stopping the Asian countries flying in through the portal, capturing Fat man and Little Boy, and threatening to drop them on San Francisco?
They know where the bombs are and the modern air forces are easily and fleets are easily strong enough to defeat the US conventional forces via achieving naval supremacy.
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u/ThatGenericName2 1d ago edited 1d ago
Depends on how much of their militaries they get through. Imo most likely is a stalemate.
Just getting a portion of the air force and any radar is going to be enough to prevent the US from deploying the nukes; their only method delivery at the time was the B29. If we assume those East Asian countries are also willing to supply Japan with food rather than just defend it, this alone is probably enough to force negotiations that Japan wanted as opposed to the unconditional surrender; the US despite it's industrial capacity was a bit exhausted, and did not really want to perform an actual ground invasion of Japan. They would certainly be even less inclined to when their planes and ships start "randomly" exploding.
However, whether an actual defeat of the US is much less likely; again if this is a bubble that they're actively moving resources through, they'll probably only think repelling an invasion is mission accomplished and will not move anything more than necessary to achieve that goal.
If we assume that the power of tariffs and 20 dollar big macs are enough for those countries to entirely disregard the defensive needs of their own countries, and an absolute need to destroy the US in 1945, then yeah it might be possible, so long as they defeat the US before the mid-late 50s, that is best case time for the US.
The justification being that if we assume the US would speed up development and production of nuclear delivery devices since new enemy that can blow up their bombers without being seen, the earliest the US can probably get enough of those to saturate defenses to make their own nukes effective would be probably around late 50s. This assumes there's no continuous effort by East Asian countries to halt US nuclear production which would be very much possible in 1945.
If we're talking only about defeating the US's military, then it's a bit of a no brainer. Modern east Asian have standoff capabilities compared to 1945 US, the US navy and army air force (and if the establish it at all, US Air Force) would be the first victim at which point since they would be the first to be engaging our theoretical Asian military. At this point the US military can no longer do much except protect land through ground forces, which the East Asian forces can choose to more whittle down until they reorganize into something more guerilla like. At this point you could argue the US has been defeated militarily.
Whether a land invasion of the US to force total capitulation would happen is another matter; although China has the industrial capacity and manpower, amphibious invasions can still go sideways despite the technological overmatch. Even if they do that, guerilla tactics are employed for a reason; they work.
So it becomes a bit of a dice roll. Alternatively they they decide they want to go all Geneva checklist, they can avoid invading mainland US, bring stuff needed for nuclear production and get that done. It took the us 6~ years between deciding they want to try making a nuke to making one, modern powers that already know how to make them can do it much faster, especially if they don't need to make the equipment to make the nukes from scratch. 1945 US won't be able to prevent airborne strikes and will have no effective way to retaliate either. By the 50s if Geneva checklist route is taken and the hypothetical East Asian military is so bloodlusted they want total annihilation, continental US would be turned into glass.
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u/BugRevolution 1d ago
A big part of the US victory against imperial Japan is because the Japanese were disliked by all the nations they conquered.
An alternative scenario wherein everyone (except China) favors the Japanese changes the equation considerably. The US forces now faces resistance after "liberating" Indonesia and the Philippines, and also faces resistance from Vietnam and Thailand.
Defeating Japan alone is no longer enough, and a lot of the logistics the US benefitted from is gone.
This either ends up as a stalemate or all out nuclear war.
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u/bigred1978 1d ago
Japanese still lose because overall size of US and allied forces fleet is still magnitudes larger and through attrition alone will still defeat the bizarre and radically advanced modern fleet through sheer firepower coming out of their guns. The modern fleet will run out of missiles and shell/round ammunition within minutes of engaging in combat with no source of resupply.
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u/afrikatheboldone 1d ago
It all depends on the competence of the fleet commanders those first few days, whether they decide to intercept the invasion force's escorts or the logistic ships themselves.
If they decide to sink the cargo fleet, the US will just pump out a new one in a few days and ship the men from Europe. If they decide to get rid of the escorts, then it'll be a bit easier to manage.
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u/loseniram 1d ago edited 23h ago
no no they can’t because there literally aren’t enough missiles, bombs, or even ordinance.
The US had something like a couple hundred thousand aircraft. Had already figured out the Patton tank which is just an up engined Pershing. Had developed Jet technology and was rapidly on pace to make the Sabre.
The US alone has a dozen Carrier groups with armored carriers.
The US military at this time was bigger than WW2 Europe’s by a mile, was almost totally independent on fuel and food, and had strategic bomber fleets bigger than most anti-air missile production runs by like 10000.
The US made more B24s liberators than it has made sidewinder missiles, in its 73 year history by a factor of 2.
There is literally not enough missiles on the planet and the US actually has aircraft at this point that can intercept unprepared fight bombers doing bomber runs at this point.
People were using US WW2 navy boats into the 00s.
The 1945 Navy might legitimately run into their own ships.
With Europe its only advantage is that its prepared for war and logistics cutoffs. In this scenario America has more aircraft, tanks, armored vehicles, and boats than ammunition to fight them.
And America had figured out shit like Assault rifles with the m2 carbine, the army was just too stubborn to accept full sizes were on the way out.
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u/somethingicanspell 1d ago edited 1d ago
Asia curb-stomps the US
Asia unlike Africa in the other scenario has a modern defense industrial base so it would be able to mantain production of 2020s level tech and probably half those countries have the societal stability to field mass mobilization armies. The US is fighting at the end of a very long supply chain so it's in a terrible offensive position
Within a few weeks all the US carrier groups are destroyed and the US reverts to hemispheric defense while the Asian countries shift to a war economy. After that tech, population advantages will favor Asia
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u/LeatherRole2297 1d ago
This is an amazing scenario!!!
I think US45 wins and here’s how:
They would put the Marines ashore everywhere they could. The technological advantage the RIMPAC26 have is nullified by boots on the ground- can’t shoot a Harpoon into a foxhole. And there were nearly 500,000 fighting men available on any given day in 1945 for the US. Go ashore, pacify everything in sight, then rely on your remarkable logistics base to reply you. In the meantime, the modern forces would literally run out of ammunition and surrender.
Good post.
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u/Reality-Straight 3000 🏳️🌈 Rheinmetall and Zeiss Lasertank Logisticians of 🇩🇪 1d ago
it would just be a reverse of what happened to tbe japanese but times 100, 2026 wins this easily by simply starving anyone on the islands and or bombing strong points.
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u/LeatherRole2297 1d ago
Mmmmm I dunno. I don’t think RIMPAC26 has enough bullets to take on US45.
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u/Reality-Straight 3000 🏳️🌈 Rheinmetall and Zeiss Lasertank Logisticians of 🇩🇪 16h ago
bullets are cheap, and a group of jets with napalm or modern bombs can pretty easily scour and island clean
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u/LeatherRole2297 5h ago
Yeah but those jets can’t get very close to the troops: remember that the US had 5 inch, radar controlled AND fused shells. Those jets would get shredded by the air defense, which leaves standoff weapons as their only viable option… and there are damn few of those available to these nations.
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u/Reality-Straight 3000 🏳️🌈 Rheinmetall and Zeiss Lasertank Logisticians of 🇩🇪 5h ago
"Radar controlled" is a bit... generous.
Even if that were the casethese old radars are very very very easy to effectively disable with EW tech.
Just like any and all radios of the us at the time.
Against modern EW 1945 electronics are paperweights.
And the AA cant physically turn fast enough to track a moving jet due to being controlled by hand.
Not that a couple of Jdams or hellfires from a high altitude wouldn't do the job even if the aa could somewhat target them.
Carriers are big, and so are battleships.
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u/Mathberis 1d ago
Absolutely now way the US lose. They invade the whole Asia if they don't surrender first.
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u/PrestonGarvey64 1d ago edited 4h ago
I think 1945 US would have caught wind of this this late into the war, and probably would've just nuked the portal before it opened or before too much can came through. Atp Japanese comms are completely compromised, they can't keep a thing secret. And the US is on their doorstep. For the sake of the scenario, I'd say a a decent amount of modern tech came through. Asia would have to ration their missiles and fuel, and they'd run out pretty quickly. Even if the portal remains open, it's producing a pretty significant bottleneck for the amount of war material needed. On top of that I'd imagine these modern ships cannot properly maintained. So they have one shot to get as close as they can to the US. The US atp has 19 fleet carriers and just a shitload of fuck right near Japan, an industrial and sea lift thats just utterly insane. Asia still has either a very bottlenecked supply chain from the future, or none at all considering how it plays out. The US would likely get a pretty bad bloody nose, and then the Asian allies would run out of steam, and we would be right back where we started. US would probably also start the indiscriminate nuking of japan. I'd put this one in the US's favor unless we make some new rules.
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u/Reality-Straight 3000 🏳️🌈 Rheinmetall and Zeiss Lasertank Logisticians of 🇩🇪 5h ago
good luck coordinating anything at all without radio communication or radar, especially a carrier group.
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u/PrestonGarvey64 4h ago
What do you mean? For Japan or the US?
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u/Reality-Straight 3000 🏳️🌈 Rheinmetall and Zeiss Lasertank Logisticians of 🇩🇪 3h ago
the US, 1945 radio equipment and radar are effectively useless when facing even simple modern EW
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u/Codyone1367 1d ago
The answer is Asia though negotiations. Because anyone who can negotiate modern Chinese support for Imperial Japan has the diplomatic skills of a god.