r/OpenAussie • u/VastOption8705 New South Welshian • 1d ago
Whinge People using the CFMEU as an example to bash unions are bad
The amount of hate that unions nowadays is crazy. "Unions are just greedy and corrupt, they just want to hold some control over government and companies."
The CFMEU (specifically construction bit) has been a scapegoat for the media to attack unions. Construction has ALWAYS been an industry sector that has somewhat involved criminals. What kind of job doesn't need high level security tests, drug tests etc. What sort of job doesn't ask for your criminal records.
It's construction jobs. They want to know if you have the licenses, skills, and have enough common sense. Then you get the job. Skills may be questionable these days with defects, but you get the idea.
Also its mainly the construction side of the CFMEU that has been hammered with the drugs, bribes, intimidation.
In Aus we have the NTEU (for uni staff), ACTU, HSU (Health services), TWU (Transport), USU (United Workers Union) etc.
Are they bad? NO.
In my opinion the construction sector of the CFMEU is bad, the rest, not bad at all. Anyone who says so is being dishonest. The standard 40-hour (and later 38-hour) work week in Australia was won through decades of campaigns, strikes, and legal arguments led by Australian unions
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u/SuchProcedure4547 Canberran 1d ago
I mean you can't even use the CFMEU as an example to do this either... It's pretty clear that the issues with the CFMEU are almost entirely management related. Which in my opinion is a pretty easy fix.
The media and by extension conservatives don't really care about the corruption within the union. What they want is NO unions.
All negative media coverage of unions is designed to encourage conservative politicians to union bust.
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u/CriminyJicket84 Please choose a flair 1d ago
Bingo! Couldn’t have said it better
All this stuff about cleaning up the CFMEU is masking a hidden agenda. Yes there are/have been some bad actors in the union, but the bigger agenda at play here is to rest control out of the working class’s hands and into the elite 1%. The Tooraks and Brightons etc can’t stand watching blue collar people working their way to financial positions comparable (or at least somewhat comparable) to their own
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u/sharkfinnpapa Please choose a flair 1d ago
Pro union people dont show nearly enough anger at what damage the CFMEU has done to their overall cause. Easy to blame media but the left are not outspoken enough in what should be disdain we should all have for the CFMEU
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u/Tile-Questioner South Australian 1d ago
People should use the SDA as an example to bash unions, because it is weak and sells out its members to bosses.
The media industry actually bashes CFMEU, because it is strong, democratic and militant, and they need to destroy unions in order to continue lowering our wages.
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u/Suibian_ni Victorian 1d ago
Yes, if the CFMEU was crap at looking after the wages and conditions of its members the media would be much kinder to it.
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u/NoodleBox Victorian 13h ago
Yeah, bloody SDA are shit.
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u/Very_Itchy_Bandicoot South Australian 10h ago
what makes you say that, and when you come back with "they sell us out" provides sources please.
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u/Very_Itchy_Bandicoot South Australian 10h ago
Except it doesn't? I literally fight for my members in my workplace every day and they're better off for it?
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u/Major_Ad_6650 Please choose a flair 18h ago
So because of this a blind eye should be turned to major corruption and criminality ?
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u/Tile-Questioner South Australian 18h ago
If someone broke the law, arrest them. (Unless they're a banker, it seems)
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u/Major_Ad_6650 Please choose a flair 14h ago
But this is the thing… arrests are being made. Yep I agree white collar crimes should be pursued way harder. But to just say that because they are a militant union that looks after their members they should be left alone is a slippery slope.
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u/Tile-Questioner South Australian 13h ago
Arrests were made, cool, then they should hand the union back over to its members democratically. There is no way it takes 5 years to figure out who to arrest. But the government won't do that because the purpose of the administration is to destroy the CFMEU's power to fight for its members.
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u/Sittingonalog1960 New South Welshian 1d ago
Right wingers think everyone should organise, except workers.
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u/Organic_Apple6620 Victorian 1d ago
Do they? 🤡
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u/Sittingonalog1960 New South Welshian 1d ago edited 19h ago
Yeah no one seems to criticise miners and other businesses and professional groups organising to lobby governments
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u/Couple-seeking6684 Victorian 1d ago
If the media and big business are attacking unions it’s because they work. Everyone should be joining and getting the working conditions we deserve.
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u/lithiumcitizen Flairless 1d ago
Yup. The definition of actual news is sharing something that someone else doesn’t want anyone to hear…
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u/Quarterwit_85 Victorian 1d ago
Criticism of the CFMEU is entirely fair.
As was the HSU a few years back.
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u/Couple-seeking6684 Victorian 1d ago
No it’s not fair. Criticism of corporate greed is fair. Attacking a union that has ensured that the wages of tradesmen are the highest wages in the country is a good thing. Society grows off the backs of tradesmen. They deserve to be adequately compensated. If you worry about union thugs, you must be equally or more worried about corporate thugs surely? You need thugs to fight thugs.
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u/Quarterwit_85 Victorian 1d ago
The HSU stole money from its members.
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u/Couple-seeking6684 Victorian 1d ago
The banks targeted cognitively disabled people to sell products to.
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u/Quarterwit_85 Victorian 1d ago
That’s horrible mate, I hope you didn’t get stung too badly.
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u/Couple-seeking6684 Victorian 21h ago
😂😂. You like it bent over with no lube. Each to their own I suppose.
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u/Quarterwit_85 Victorian 19h ago
What a curious thing for you to pivot to.
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u/Couple-seeking6684 Victorian 19h ago
It’s the favourite position of anti union/ pro corporation shills. Not a pivot, an observation. But I won’t judge your preference. You do you. Or they do you, lube free.
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u/Quarterwit_85 Victorian 19h ago
Once again, pivoting to sex when discussing these things is a very odd cognitive pathway.
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u/Formal-Try-2779 Victorian 1d ago
The focus is always on the CFMEU when it comes to corruption because they are costing big business and the rich money. Whereas unions like the SDA escape criticism in the media because they are fleecing their members in favour of big business. Plenty of unions do the right thing and shouldn't be tarred with the same brush. But when they do the wrong thing in the favor of the Corporations and the 1% the media says nothing.
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u/Very_Itchy_Bandicoot South Australian 10h ago
Ive been an SDA union delegate in my workplace for years. I've helped countless team members with issues in the workplace. In fact I don't think i've had one that didn't work out in the members favour in the end.
The SDA has no favour in big business atm. Coles and woolies in particular are at their throats currently about just about everything.
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u/MightyBoy9 Flairless 1d ago
Noone. Not a single person:
Murdoch Media every fortnight: " YoU WoN'T BeliEVe HoW MucH tHiS TraFfIc CoNtRolLeR EArNs!?! "
( Article goes on to list a person working 184 hours a week on a union site that only about 0.1% of the workforce can get on )
Gullible, naive and uninformed Boomers and Reddit: " That's bullshit , they earn too much, the unions are gate keeping trades and licenses to keep wages up! "
Literally every week.
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u/Euphoric_Peak_3914 Norfolk Islander 1d ago
There's good and bad unions. We can criticize bad unions.
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u/salad_tossers_69 Please choose a flair 1d ago
Correct answer. CFMEU are criminals giving all other unions a bad name.
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u/Grande_Choice Victorian 1d ago
It’s easier to make people hate them because otherwise they might realise they get all these pay and conditions because of their union. They might wonder why their union is so useless or think about joining one and fight for better pay.
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u/Accomplished-City484 Tasmanian 1d ago
Yeah it’s the same with the NDIS, if you know there’s fraud why are you not just prosecuting those people? Why are you cutting funding for the disabled in a cost of living crisis? Why are you taking money from seniors in a cost of living crisis? Why are you kicking people out of their homes in a housing crisis?
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u/SlaveryVeal Please choose a flair 1d ago
Its because it would be a shit tonne of money investigating taking people to court and then they would likely get a slap on the wrist.
It's doing this to make it less desirable for the people exploiting it because there's so much money.
I'll use the current example with scalpers in the Pokemon TCG. You had a bunch of scalpers buying bulk of the product and trying to sell a huge markup price. What did Nintendo do? They over supplied the market ab made the expensive cards a lot easier to get.
That's caused scalpers to lose a shit tonne of money and now selling the set as a loss. It's literally getting people out of the market because it's not profitable.
Yes it's shit for people on the ndis right now they are victims in this but it's the fastest way to fix it getting the shit cunts exploiting the system for profit. There's also no mention that they won't adjust it later once the fraud is out they can put what they need back into it. It's sadly a harsh reset due to huge neglect from an incompetent gov that probably would've just cut the whole thing anyway if they're got back in.
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u/comrade-ev Please choose a flair 1d ago
The issue with unions is that the union bureaucracy often makes deals with bosses, and in an industry like construction where the bosses are criminals then there will be deals with criminals.
However the government doesn’t seem to hold the bosses accountable for being criminals, so are making the construction union responsible for the whole lot. There are probably things in the CFMEU that could be fixed, but that isn’t why the CFMEU is being crushed by the government.
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u/Duckboy1990 Please choose a flair 1d ago
It's not just the union in construction that makes it a dirty game. Big construction companies don't want the system to change for a reason. It's a system built on where the corrupted are rightly prosecuted, but the companies that corrupt the union face little to no consquences. In 10 years will be here again, as only half the problem is ever fixed.
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u/NoGreaterPower Please choose a flair 1d ago
The CFMEU is so corrupt yet after a royal commission, a state inquiry, and a federal administration there’s been no substantial convictions?
Every one of these reports point out the obvious. The construction industry is dirty. Lay with dogs and get fleas. But at least one side had some balls and fought for the worker.
90% of unions in Australia are pissweak.
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u/ComfortableCoyote314 Please choose a flair 1d ago
Yeah but at least the cfmeu has teeth. The other unions are often just glorified HR working less for the interests of the workers.
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u/ContributionEasy6513 1d ago
But those teeth are exactly what people have a problem with.
Threatening other companies, their employees, stalling projects costing the state billions and resorting to crime to send a message (intimidation and vandalism being common).Is this really what you want?, ie 'Become a Union site or good luck renting equipment, getting deliveries and it would bad if your office was firebombed' This is a protection racket and criminal syndicate.
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u/ContributionEasy6513 1d ago
In my opinion the construction sector of the CFMEU is bad, the rest, not bad at all. Anyone who says so is being dishonest.
No. Genuinely F them. I worked construction when I was in my early 20's and they would physically intimidate, harass, bully both employees and employers. They'd also shutdown your operation if you did not employ union staff or meet their demands. Genuinely they'd stand outside the gates and threaten you, and take pictures.
Now that they are so closely interwoven with politics they are very dangerous and open the door to blatant corruption.
Unions are good, but CFMEU management are just criminal thugs (many actually convicted or connected to criminals) and should be lined up against a wall. It's shocking this has gone on for decades despite overwhelming evidence.
You also need to be aware that not all Unions fight for the workers. Many have been caught doing secret back hand deals with governments and corporations.
Example being SDA (Shop, Distributive and Allied Employees' Association).
https://www.smh.com.au/national/secret-woolworths-deal-with-shoppies-union-cuts-wages-20171216-h05t1p.html
The nursing union isn't much better. AIPA (Aviation) are pretty solid. Treat every Union at face value and ask yourself what are they doing to help you and are you getting value from being a member.
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u/Several_Alarm5357 Please choose a flair 1d ago
Yeah sda is terrible I used to work at Bunnings and they actively pushed the worst eba for workers.
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u/Very_Itchy_Bandicoot South Australian 10h ago
If you truly think this is how it works you are delusional. The SDA has very little to do with actually bargaining for workplace agreements. The meet with workpalce delegates which are employees of that business and ask them what they want and it's a huge back and forth where there has to be compromise, and digging your heels in and refusing to budge only results in a government decision that will often times be worse than anything you could have negotiated with.
Didnt the SDA get bunnings hours bank removed? i'd call that a pretty decent win, an extra week of AL per year comapred to the Aussie norm. Like help me understand the issue?
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u/Several_Alarm5357 Please choose a flair 10h ago edited 10h ago
The 2019 eba was pushed by the sda in conjunction with Bunnings then went on to actually not pass fair work and was withdrawn. Other unions actively campaigned a vote no while the sda worked against its workers to try get it across the line.
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u/Very_Itchy_Bandicoot South Australian 9h ago
I mean the way the SDA negotiates is through its delegates. They only fight for what their delegates want. And the ultimately the final vote is what matters. Ive never had pressure from my SDA organiser to vote one way or another on any of my workplace agreements, just more, vote on how you feel it represents you and im here if you need help understanding terms in it.
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u/Dizzy_Depth_2937 Please choose a flair 5h ago
The SDA has cosy relationships with employers because employers are then relatively happy to have their employees be SDA members. SDA bosses then use those employee numbers to wield influence in Labor. The measure of success is influence in Labor not good outcomes for members.
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u/CriminyJicket84 Please choose a flair 1d ago
If you go to work on a site where the conditions and pay have been established and upheld by a workers union, and you do not pay your share towards that effort, you have no business being in that site.
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u/ContributionEasy6513 1d ago
I did not work at a Union site (mid to late 2000's). We were not Union workers. We were legally employed, paid very fairly above market rate and treated well. CFMEU thugs would take pictures of us at the gate, threaten us and our families, our suppliers and cause disruptions.
As to Union sites, yes. If you are not part of the Union you could not go on their sites or as a supplier being seen to be working on non-union sites. Many rules were not documented, but if you stepped out of line you'd have your truck window smashed or things going missing.
To me this is shameful as everyone should have the choice if they want to join the Union or not. Simple.As to the level of pure intimidation and harassment I witnessed from individuals sent by the Union Management (always something they no doubt claim they had no knowledge of and was members acting on their own free accord), certainly escalated into criminal territory.
Go talk to workers who have been onsite and dealt with CFMEU. They will have colourful stories to tell that the Royal Commissions can apparently find no evidence of.
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u/deegandnb I'm Probably A Bot 1d ago
Totally depends on the union. CFMEU ain't one I'd be backing.
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u/Glass_Ad_7129 Queenslander 1d ago
The level of corporate media telling you unions are bad, indicates to a large degree the opposite.
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u/Due_Sheepherder_4822 Please choose a flair 1d ago
Now I’ve seen it all.
CFMEU are the good guys.
No worries.
Absolute morons lurking in here
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u/Subject-Divide-5977 Please choose a flair 1d ago
In Australia we have had unions since the country has had an elected government. It was the miners union that fought (literally with guns) for the right of self determination and elected government. It was unions that formed one of the leading political parties when shearers shut down the wool trade that was Australias biggest export earner. It was unions that gave us Saturdays off. That gave us fair living wages. That gave us paid leave that led to our modern lifestyle away from surfdom. Unions have given so much to modern Australia and to judge unions in general by one war between a conservative government and a socialists union is an injustice.
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u/PerspectiveNew1416 Please choose a flair 1d ago
The conversation needs to turn to the future of unions. The unions of today are a mixed bag but generally demoralised and poorly organised. Their best shot at achieving their objectives is to influence the ALP and get themselves more power through legislation. They have diminished because they are just not needed as much. Capital has been tamed compared to the days where children were put down coal mines. Though the age of AI may change the balance again.
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u/Valintus Please choose a flair 1d ago
This, the people who hate on unions and basically the "left" don't know Australian history and just parrot things they hear on sky and social media.
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u/youcangotohellgoto Queenslander 1d ago
No one cares about history. They care about their own contemporary experience and that of their peers. And their experience is that unions are opportunitistic, selfish, wasteful, unfairly preferencing insiders, and don't deliver win-win outcomes.
I've worked in enough places with enough union diehards to realize that if they had their way we'd have a communist "paradise". No clue about business, no clue about efficiency, no clue about individual needs and motivators. I've done their work for them because they were slackers. Enough.
Believe it or not, we are ultimately responsible for ourselves.
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u/Stormherald13 Victorian 1d ago
I personally use Craig Thompson.
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u/AntiqueFigure6 Victorian 1d ago
Both his replacement and his replacement’s replacement have moved on from the HSU by now. He’s irrrelevant.
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u/Stormherald13 Victorian 1d ago
What’s not irrelevant is union officials getting massive credit cards.
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u/AntiqueFigure6 Victorian 1d ago
That position is effectively the CEO - having a credit card with a limit that’s high for an individual isn’t unusual. Even as a very junior middle manager I’ve had one with a crazy high limit relative to my salary.
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u/Better_Wash_9859 Please choose a flair 1d ago
I don't rate unions these days. I've been on too many sites where they will be bend to the company running the job at the expense of the worker
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u/Equivalent-Grass4473 Please choose a flair 1d ago
The CFMEU were targetted because they're good at what they do. They got shit done for the people they represent.
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u/JohnBrunswick0 Flairless 1d ago
Pretty sure they were targeted for their criminal and corrupt conduct which explains the absence of similar attention given to other unions without the same baggage.
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u/Mash_man710 Western Australian 1d ago
Union membership is down to 13% of workers. That includes the heavily unionised workforces like police, nurses, teachers and public servants. They've done it to themselves. 87% of workers don't see the value.
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u/OkBackground8670 💛 Friend of 'Straya 1d ago
Thats it. The CFMEU is its own qorst enemy. but the other unions are dying, which is a bad thing. There needs to be a balance.
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u/ArmSouth5626 Please choose a flair 1d ago
Are there any other unions to join apart from cfmeu?
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u/goshdammitfromimgur Victorian 1d ago edited 1d ago
Plenty. CFMEU is for Construction, Forestry and Maritime Employees.
Edit:originally had engineers in place of employees
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u/ArmSouth5626 Please choose a flair 1d ago
Sorry i ment specifically for construction. Being in the trades I’ve never heard of any other union close to cfmeu. Im not unionised but id like to be. But not keen to sign up with the bikies
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u/Phantomsurfr Western Australian 1d ago
https://www.australianunions.org.au
They help you find the union best suited to you and your profession/trade.
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u/Away_team42 Koori 1d ago edited 1d ago
***maritime employees
The CMFEU are not for engineers. They hate them. They harass and intimidate us on their sites.
Allegedly (using this word coz I have to) planting Apple AirTags in the work utes, following them home and harassing them at their place of residence. CMFEU are absolute dogs to engineers.
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u/Aggravating-King-491 Flairless 1d ago
The CFMEU is such a f*cked union that even the mining and energy operations in Australia split themselves off into a totally seperate union (MEU).
You might recall it was briefly the CFMMEU when they amalgamated with the MUA, who were also quick to return to an individual union themselves (<2 years later).
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u/Butt_Lick4596 New South Welshian 1d ago
I meet people who use CFMEU to argue that Victoria is bad, but not to argue unions are bad.
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u/Tall1124816 Please choose a flair 1d ago
Is RAFFWU bad?
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u/brisbaneacro Queenslander 1d ago
It’s not a union and has pretty limited power
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u/Very_Itchy_Bandicoot South Australian 10h ago
A unions power is directly proportional to the amount of members it has. If an employer has an employee base thats 80% union members that union would be incredibly powerful in negotiations around wages etc, where if it were 8%, well no employer is going to care about 8%, their yearly turnover is probably higher than that.
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u/brisbaneacro Queenslander 10h ago
That but also RAFFWU is not a registered union meaning it doesn’t have powers that a real union does.
Things like multi employer bargaining, right of entry, legal protections for delegates, legal representation of the workforce etc
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u/reidsays New South Welshian 1d ago
The battle for worker's wellbeing and fair compensation for work done became so strong that it became embedded in politics.
People forget that parliament used to only be open to male landowners... And with centuries of accumulating power over social decisions and actions the stronghold was akin to a fortress .
Any politics involving worker's rights was initially only backed by the unions financial aid so no wonder attacks on strong unions became the standard for those who wanted to enforce an easily accessible, easily used labour sector ...
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u/Next-Revolution3098 Please choose a flair 1d ago
After sitting through the whole TURC a few years ago ....I can see why the bash
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u/DefinitionFast1951 Please choose a flair 1d ago
No they’re not. They’re just people. Just like all the other people.
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u/expert_views New South Welshian 1d ago
The CFMEU leadership were criminals. That doesn’t mean other unions are criminals. However, they are mostly not in the public interest. Transport Workers? AMWU? Too many union leaders use the union as a platform for Marxist activism. Not in the interests of their workers, not in the interests of the country. Plenty of people working for unions have tales of how badly they were treated by their union employers. Ironic, no?
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u/Smithe37nz Please choose a flair 1d ago
Headline: Sexism, bullding, hazing and and drugs rife on CFMEU workplaces!
Tradies dealing drugs, being sexist and hazing the apprentices? Unheard of!
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u/Horror-Breakfast-113 New South Welshian 1d ago
Could we apply the same to big business - look at fox / murdoch rags - they haven't paid tax in how many years - so does that mean all companies don't pay tax and rip us off - well quit a lot of multinations do
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u/Duck_duck_twoose Please choose a flair 1d ago
Sorry if I’m out of the loop, but why is the media bashing unions?
From what I know union membership has declined due to the rise in overseas manufacturing the increase in more complex kinds of jobs.
But unions help bring power back to workers, and CFMEU struggled because of inside corruption of which a parliamentary inquiry was looking into.
If anything I’d be in support of more unions, but perhaps it’d raise the risk of employees pushing unions for raises until the company goes bankrupt and they jump ship, as we already see with government debt-related shorttermism.
But also we can’t be letting corporate greed strangle our democracy and quality of life.
I’ve heard that the media almost acts a fourth (fourth?) branch of government as it controls the citizens’ informed voting, so really we should be targeting what media companies are exploiting.
I’m totally open to be being corrected.
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u/InComingMess2478 Flairless 1d ago
How easy is it going to be for AI to take your job? We’ve all been sold a lie about unions, and now, more than ever, collective action may be one of the few ways workers can protect themselves against Elon Musk, Trump and their ilk.
These people want to consolidate wealth in the hands of a few while putting downward pressure on wages and workers’ rights. When the free market becomes dominated by a handful of US oligarchs, it starts to look very familiar. It’s where state control and corporate capitalism meet again at the top of the pendulum.
Democracy isn’t dead, despite the constant narrative telling us otherwise. We still have the power to challenge those who seek to concentrate wealth and influence in fewer hands.
Capitalism, as we’ve come to know it, is failing us. Democracy is our power, and collective action is how we use it.
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u/Late-Button-6559 South Australian 1d ago
Not really.
But add SDA into the mix, and you’ve got a bash-unions stew going.
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u/CranberryOdd7670 New South Welshian 1d ago
The cfmeu shouldn’t be a reference of how unions behave (and nether with things in life)… yeah there are unions which do a decent jobs without acting like a criminal thugs
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u/corporatenoose Please choose a flair 1d ago
Talk to people on construction sites and you might think differently. I have personal stories of vandalism and injuring managers on site. A CFMEU organiser in WA just got his permit revoked for punching a site manager on a PACT site
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u/Brentus1980 Please choose a flair 1d ago
Notice most union workers look like they’ve never worked a day in there lives🤔
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u/ContentSecretary8416 Please choose a flair 1d ago
You have the MUA to thank for destroying the Australian shipping industry.
Thug idiots that couldn’t work in an iron lung.
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u/jesstraining Please choose a flair 1d ago
The media always bashes unions. They always make the pay increase % the headline and ignore the current rate and conditions.....
I'm pro union and I hate the CFMEU but I don't think they have changed the medias way or reporting. If anything the media has been biased in favour of CFMEU even the articles about threats and stalking just helps galvanise the thug reputation that the CFMEU desperately needs to survive.
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u/Upstairs-Insect-5043 Please choose a flair 1d ago
The media is a conservative tool and they use it to bash Unions so people vote against their own self interests and vote against their own rights. It's brainwashing basically. In the past 20 years I've worked in both Unions and the Media.
Being apart of the CFMEU for so long and seeing a lot of stuff: The drugs thing is overblown - a few really bad eggs involved with drugs but people act like the whole organisation is run by drugs or something when the average member is just a guy. I recall of one situation where one massive corporation refused to pay workers overtime pay THAT THEY HAD WORKED as well as other things. This is a massive Australian corporation. Union (I'm not saying this was or wasn't CFMEU) took it too court but it basically didn't go anywhere because of the government at the time. Hundreds of just everyday workers with families not paid thousands of dollars that they were owed because of a massive company's greed.
3am one morning the CEO/Director of that corporation and his wife wake up to a few guys standing over their bed. A couple of delegates and some other members looking to talk about it over a cuppa.
The next week the workers had EVERY SINGLE CENT they were owed, paid in the bank accounts.
People can chirp all they want but I don't see that as a bad thing. The media and Facebook might condition you into thinking that lying down and taking it and being a slave is the best thing but I choose not to be brainwashed like so many are today.
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u/BrilliantEconomics77 Please choose a flair 15h ago
*sigh
If you cnat be pro union and hate Organised Crime running a union, then im afraid you are as indoctrinated as deeply as any Tump MAGA fool.
The fact that other unions failed to take a hard stance against the CMFU is why people can use this as fule to bash unions.
Every fucking unions in this country should have come out, called for dissolution of the CMFU, and worked to establish a replacement one.
The fact that most unions ran some kind of boot licking stance of "aww well its not that bad, its not all unions" makes it look.lile that perhaps it is all unions.
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u/NoodleBox Victorian 13h ago
I mean, the C bit are a bit sketchy, the M was fine, mum was a member.
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u/SS_Auc3 New South Welshian 13h ago
having talked to people who are very anti-union, if they are rational to any extent in their thought they quickly realise it really is JUST the CFMEU
im a labor member and have had discussions with people in the nats and libs, especially their more hardline faction members, and quite a few just seem to hate the CFMEU not the union movement as a whole, they might disagree on a fundamental principle with unions but it isnt a deep seated hatred
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u/I-was-a-twat Queenslander 12h ago
Construction as an industry is rife with organised crime on all sides, from developers to investors to the unions.
Any contractors who’s dealt privately with a developer will have stories of not getting paid on projects and phoenix companies. You need a scummy militant union to get your share.
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u/Inevitable-Level-829 Please choose a flair 11h ago
It doesn’t shock me people hate unions . They work better jobs , less hours , more money and look after each other.
People hate what they don’t have ….
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u/nottoomuchnowmate Please choose a flair 11h ago
It’s like the antivaxers. Vaccines Saved billions. Now gets villainized.
Unions. Advanced quality of life for billions. Now villainized.
Crazy aye.
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u/Very_Itchy_Bandicoot South Australian 10h ago
The standard 40-hour (and later 38-hour) work week in Australia was won through decades of campaigns, strikes, and legal arguments led by Australian unions
Way to undersell it, add in, annual/personal/lsl, Mat/Pat leave, oh and MEDICARE was the result of union bargaining. The unions go to bat for the lowest earners every time the govt reviews the min wage which impacts most other industry awards as a knock on effect.
For those who dont know, medicare was the solution to wages being too high in the 70s, the year on year wage growth was actually hurting economic growth because it hurt business' ability to invest new money (which is different from diverting existing spending to save money) in things which is good for the economy, so the unions and government in agreement decided medicare was the answer if the unions lowered their payrise expectations dramatically.
All those people hating on the Labor party in particular, a party that was originally formed as a union, because the sheep shearers in the late 1890s who wanted payrises were literally arrested for asking for better wages, so they formed their own political party so people could fight for better working rights. The labor party doesn't get everything right, these days many will say they get more wrong than they do right, however, your payrises and working conditions will not improve under any other party the way they will with labor.
It's pretty simple with unions either you're with us or you're against us, there is no middle ground, by not being in the union, you are actively supporting the billionaires and their profit crazed businesses from squeezing every cent they can out of you.
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u/Y34rZer0 Please choose a flair 3h ago
First of all I will say we are unequivocally better off with unions, that's a fact.
However they are technically corrupt by their nature, because the real strength a union has is the ability to cause a builder or industry financial trouble, whether it's through striking or whatever. It's 100% money focused. That's not a bad thing it's just how it works.
It also means that there are times when financial considerations out way what should be the traditional union motivation which is worker conditions. Look at Roxby Downs mine, WMC pays a set fee to the CFMEU annually to keep their nose out of their operations. It's completely above board and it's not illegal but it's how it is, and it makes sense because if you shut down a foundry line it takes something like a couple of weeks to get a backup to temperature again so it will be disastrous.
I don't know what the amount is these days but I know going back 10 15 years it was 300k.
The union definitely does backdoor deals and some dubious financial things but the truth is that most of the time that aligns with better condition for us workers, and like I said we're absolutely better off with the union that without it but for it to survive and for it to be strong it needs to operate in the grey areas sometimes
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u/HappySummerBreeze Western Australian 1d ago
You make some pretty good points.
I’ve had a friend be saved by the teachers union.
But I also lost my really safe highly paid job because my union kept pushing for higher and higher wages that were so far above competitive value, that the company basically outsourced to India and Philippines. I definitely blame the union for pushing the company too far.
I reckon we have asshole bosses and asshole union leaders, and also good of both. But I’m glad we have unions.
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u/Kitchen-Idea3018 Please choose a flair 1d ago
CFMEU is not different from the TWU. They are incredibly corrupt.
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u/JimmyLizzardATDVM Victorian 1d ago
Proud union member: NTEU.
Every org has their issues, but they go to bat for our workforce, support people with complex advice and they have helped bring to the surface massive cases of underpayment in tertiary education.
Join your union, it’s worth it and you can claim back some costs at tax time.
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u/BigTruckTinyHome Please choose a flair 1d ago
Unions aren't what they started as. They aren't even what they where two years ago. Now they are just a way to funnel money into the labour party.
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u/mymentor79 Western Australian 1d ago
"Unions [...] they just want to hold some control over government and companies."
That's, in essence, a good thing.
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u/Smokinglordtoot Victorian 1d ago
The CFMEU was the most powerful union outside the public service and therefore outside the Labor parties zone of control. This is why it was closed down.
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u/ArmyBrat651 1d ago
Naive question: if CFMEU is that bad and criminal, why don’t they arrest the said criminals?
I am often critical of Australia, but even to me it’s unbelievable that in some aspects it can really be THAT bad.