Just got a VV 2-55

[u/IntrStelle]

I got an okay condition VV 2-55 off of eBay

The vinylite exterior is in poor shape, honestly, I might get it replaced with actual leather.

The motor works, for how gummed up it is, it runs well, like 5 minutes well. Are all the gears supposed to be lubricated with grease, or is it supposed to be oiled?

The reproducer (spider orthophonic) is cracked in the back plate and everything is dried out, gonna replace the parts, but why did it have 2 face plates? There was cloth that was eaten at by bugs and fiber glass between them, why?

Also, should I use my lithium grease or my graphite for this one?

[u/Gimme-A-kooky]

If you do nothing else, I’d at least get some oil on those gears and anything metal that moves… just as a start…

Your reproducer- without a pic it’s hard to judge. However, if things are cracked, there may be replacements needed.

Silverfish (aka “bookworms”) and whatever else will eat just about anything lol… I’ve seen termite boring tubes inside Victrolas!

[u/IntrStelle → u/Gimme-A-kooky]

Yeah, I found a silverfish inside of the reproducer

[u/awc718993]

What “color” is your model? Bronze crinkle
paint with gilt fixtures (i.e., tonearm) or the later enamel (burgundy or blue) with gold plating?

You can replace the fabrikoid sure but be prepared to deal with a lot of rivets / screws.

The general rule is grease for gears. Oil for everything else (e.g., bearings) except for the crank shaft non return spring.

Some people go to the lengths of using DIY vaseline / graphite but white lithium is actually fine. You can even use moly. Just clean everything thoroughly before applying any lubricant.

As I recall there’s only one faceplate unless you’re also counting the fabric used to help dampen the treble leak (through said faceplate) from the front of the diaphragm? or the bezel?

Personally I wouldn’t play with the rear plate if it is cracked. The pot metal may crumble on you if you try removing it. Just be sure the soundbox is airtight by blowing (with the isolator pressed and “sealed” against your mouth) lightly into the back. You shouldn’t be able to push air through. I’d just clean out the needlebar pivots (not losing the ball bearings) and repack with new grease.

For the isolator, after removing, try softening it chemically (mixed results) or replace it.

[u/IntrStelle → u/awc718993]

Mine has the crinkle with gold plating on the tonearm, the stop switch, and the reproducer.

Just asking about the lithium because I happen to have both, though I do have more lithium than graphite.

Mine doesn't have a crankshaft spring, it has a ratchet mechanism.

Yes, that's what I mean by a second faceplate, what should I replace it with?

About the isolator, how many should I buy? Should I get one for both sides of the diaphragm?

[u/awc718993 → u/IntrStelle]

I have that one though it has been many years since I worked on it. (That’s why my memories of the motor are a bit hazy sorry about that.)

My big pain was trying to find an intact tonearm bracket. They’re notorious for cracking. I had tried a replacement that was popular at the time but although it was very sturdy (machined brass, much stronger than the original) its non original shape stood out too much. It was more a repair part than a restoration part.

So you’re going to try and deal with the pot metal? Ok. What you’re referring to are the diaphragm gaskets. You can get a pair of flat neoprene replacements rings already cut to spec from any of the antique phonograph dealers.

What do you mean, the fabric damper? If so, I’d personally just experiment with any similar color fabric but I’d first try it for a time without it to see (or rather hear) if it’s “necessary” per your listening preference. Some don’t care for it mg and remove it.

If you mean the bezel (the ring frame that the front and back connect to), that’s something you’ll have to cannibalize — or buy already salvaged from another orthophonic portable soundbox.

[u/IntrStelle → u/awc718993]

It's fine

My big pain was trying to find an intact tonearm bracket. They’re notorious for cracking. I had tried a replacement that was popular at the time but although it was very sturdy (machined brass, much stronger than the original) its non original shape stood out too much. It was more a repair part than a restoration part.

There's someone on eBay that makes sturdy plastic ones for $40, but mine is perfectly fine

What you’re referring to are the diaphragm gaskets. You can get a pair of flat neoprene replacements rings already cut to spec from any of the antique phonograph dealers.

That's what I'm thinking of doing, I just noticed there wasn't one in the reproducer back side and I'm not sure if there's one on the other, it's weird, maybe they had 1 for some reason.

What do you mean, the fabric damper? If so, I’d personally just experiment with any similar color fabric but I’d first try it for a time without it to see (or rather hear) if it’s “necessary” per your listening preference. Some don’t care for it mg and remove it.

Should I have the fiberglass too or just a piece of fabric?

If you mean the bezel (the ring frame that the front and back connect to), that’s something you’ll have to cannibalize — or buy already salvaged from another orthophonic portable soundbox.

I was talking about the ring gaskets, sadly, the ring bezel is split

[u/awc718993 → u/IntrStelle]

There's someone on eBay that makes sturdy plastic ones for $40, but mine is perfectly fine

Plastic I suppose is adequate if you're just trying to repair and restore basic functionality (though I do wonder/worry about the plastic flexing/vibrating -- even minutely-- which is something you don't want in a tonearm pivot). When trying to restore originality (in doing a "full restoration") it's best to use original salvaged parts.

I just noticed there wasn't one in the reproducer back side and I'm not sure if there's one on the other, it's weird, maybe they had 1 for some reason.

Try asking one of the older decades in business dealers for confirmation, as they have years experience rebuilding (or at least supplying the gaskets to professional reproducer re-builders). From a sound box design theory standpoint (and my now aged hands-on recollection), there ought to be two, one front and one behind, to both seal and float the diaphragm.

Fwiw, in my experience the gaskets are more critical for sealing in this reproducer design. Some non-Gramophone Co. electric-process designs lean on thicker / squishy rubber tubular gaskets on their diaphragm edges, just as the older mica sound boxes did. But Victor/HMV Orthophonics don't because flex/compliance is molded into the foil via the "pleats" seen on the perimeter. That said you want a compressed airtight seal / lock at the edges. Two gaskets help ensure that better than one.

Should I have the fiberglass too or just a piece of fabric?

If you want to recreate the original you're going to have to rebuild that whole "layer cake" that was wedged in between the main bezel/frame and the front cover. You'll need to pack some wool (not fiberglass -- too modern), then a layer felt (for color), and top it with brass mesh as the screen.

bezel is split

Yeah. Pot metal is fun. Try to find a spare (or one pre-cannibalized given the problems with disassembling swollen pot metal) and re-combine the parts, or if you're lucky, buy a better conditioned replacement (of the same model) and use it instead.

[u/IntrStelle → u/awc718993]

Try asking one of the older decades in business dealers for confirmation, as they have years experience rebuilding (or at least supplying the gaskets to professional reproducer re-builders). From a sound box design theory standpoint (and my now aged hands-on recollection), there ought to be two, one front and one behind, to both seal and float the diaphragm.

I'll ask the person at lakes

If you want to recreate the original you're going to have to rebuild that whole "layer cake" that was wedged in between the main bezel/frame and the front cover. You'll need to pack some wool (not fiberglass -- too modern), then a layer felt (for color), and top it with brass mesh as the screen.

Curious, I swear that was fiberglass, maybe someone was in there before me.

And it didn't have a mesh.

Yeah. Pot metal is fun. Try to find a spare (or one pre-cannibalized given the problems with disassembling swollen pot metal) and re-combine the parts, or if you're lucky, buy a better conditioned replacement (of the same model) and use it instead.

Some orthophonics are brass, right?

[u/awc718993 → u/IntrStelle]

Yes there are brass body Orthophonic reproducers but they are sought after and very pricey. You may have better luck first asking if he has the same portable Orthophonic you have (but nicer).

Technically the brass ones were for the more deluxe cabinet / floor model Victors, which is another factor influencing their pricing nowadays. The versions Victor (and later RCA Victor) made for their portables were made lighter as they were meant to help reduce carrying weight. That is a bit laughable given the overall case of your 255 is built / weighs like a tank. The succeeding portable model, the 265 is much lighter. (It’s the design that influenced HMV’s 102.)

[u/IntrStelle → u/awc718993]

I can tell lol

It's portable if you dare lol

[u/Gimme-A-kooky → u/awc718993]

Actually I’m glad you said that about grease… I’ll preface it next time with that just so others know that I’m referencing this unorthodox method (the oil) is basically my personal “lazy” stopgap measure that only is intended to get things moving and free-flowing while ensuring nothing grinds or otherwise… UNTIL everything can be cleaned and re-lubed- and really only for an extremely short, temporary period.

Thanks for pointing that out. Proper grease for worms and gears. Oil is bearings, shafts and spindles, etc…

Sincerely, not in any way perturbed or anything- I’m honestly curious and want to change my habits if it’s not good for the bigger picture… but is what I suggested not in the best interest of others (just squirting oil on it and callin’ it a day), like akin to teaching bad habits to new hobbyists when it’s best to start from the basics kinda thing? If truly so, I sincerely vow (for my own self, of course) to step back and advise the crawl before walk! I really appreciate your fine details and breadth of knowledge! I’ve got a long way lol

Here’s a follow-in question, too: what about the later ones that had nylon gearing? Maybe Vaseline and graphite? I don’t suppose grease could do harm, and I’m assuming nylon is pretty hardy?

[u/awc718993 → u/Gimme-A-kooky]

I’m sorry Gimme, I was in no way commenting on your reply. When I started drafting my post, no one had yet replied to IntrStelle. I took a bit of time to save and then tweak and complete my response, and by the time I “released” it, your reply to InrStelle had posted, which I only saw on page refresh.

FWIW, On reddit when I am directly augmenting / adding on / replying to a reply (vs responding to thread-starting post by an OP), I try to literally reply to that reply. That way reddit visually marks and nests my post subordinate to the post to which I am responding / commenting on (just like how I am now replying to you). Perhaps I’m outdated, but that’s just an old methodology I adopted back in the mailing list / usenet discussion forums days.

Alternatively, I at least try to reference (e.g., “as Gimje-A-kooky said…” etc.,) or if I have the opportunity, use the quotation format tool to give my post context. [That’s on the limited occasions when I’m reading reddit on my laptop vs thick-thumb “typing” on my phone, which lacks many text essential formatting options — at least on my phone’s reddit client.]

In terms of “best practices” when giving talking machine advice here…. I try to be complete as best I can but we’re all human, and our human lives sometimes prevent us being thorough in practice and recommendation regardless of intent. In the past I have tried to at least note when a shortcut is a shortcut (or even a “hack”) and, if I have the time (and window of opportunity), I’ll try to reference the “proper approach” if not go into much of the detail needed. Not everybody reads these days, especially here on reddit, and that sometimes impacts my motivation on whether to go into thorough detail or just toss out a quick (albeit derivative) summary. Sometimes expediency and fatigue can get the best of our better angels.

I’ve only used white lithium on metal and fiber gears. I haven’t really had acoustic/mechanical machines that late in the game that use plastics in the gearing, much less the softer plastics that can react to petroleum derived lubes. As such it hasn’t been an issue for me. [My arbitrary cut off line for my talking machine collecting is WW2 (though with some international exceptions). ]

I do have in my repair kit silicone based lubricants, and have in a pinch used them on my pre war talking machines, but I bought them initially for use on my modern record players / turntables and tape equipment where makeup and viscosity are critical. At least per my understanding, one ought to stay away from vaseline and plastic due to the petroleum, but those are “soft” plastics, the sort I don’t think were used on any metal to plastic motor gearing (but I may be wrong).

[u/Gimme-A-kooky → u/awc718993]

No no I know you weren’t, I apologize if that came off that way- sincerely {{adding}} I just want to correct a mistake that I believe I myself am making, and I’m essentially hoping to correct my thought process to benefit (I was a teacher, so I should know lol) that I might be making 🙂

[u/Gimme-A-kooky → u/awc718993]

And I mean this with God as my witness- I sincerely am asking as a junior looks up to a senior (student/teacher) in this case- I promise… I’m so sorry if mine came off as anything else. I guess what I mean to say is I value your input, and truly want to better myself in an effort to help others do the same {{adding}}; I’ve been taking your knowledge and etching it into my mind- and I respect you as a person, and particularly one as a vastly experienced and well-read as you… so please, I hope you will accept my apology. My intent was never to be anything but giving deference and hoping to kind of “fix myself” in a lot of ways and maybe curb my quick “reactionary” thought processes I use in an effort to slow myself down and help teach the details properly. This is what I mean, and I truly appreciate your wisdom and guidance, and if that was taken in any other way, I apologize and offer my explanation 🙂

[u/awc718993 → u/Gimme-A-kooky]

No worries. All is fine. 👍 No deference needed. Hopefully I addressed your question.

[u/Gimme-A-kooky → u/awc718993]

You did address it very well, too, thank you :)