r/PoliticalDiscussion • u/baxterstate • 2d ago
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u/Objective_Aside1858 2d ago
Not that picking a stupid and pointless fight with not only a NATO member but one of our biggest trading parters wasn't idiotic, but this is his biggest mistake?
Not Iran?
Not weaponizing the justice department?
Not throwing Ukraine under the bus and toadying up to Putin?
In any case, there's a simple reason Trump picked the fight: he's not used to being told "no", and Canada told him no.
He presumably thought he could just insist on getting whatever he wanted, just like his good buddy Epstein, and everyone would comply
But Canada did not comply
And he knows there are no personal consequences to him for throwing a tantrum
So he did
Again.
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u/uhp787 2d ago edited 2d ago
not rape?
Not his covid pandemic that killed so many people?
those should've ended him.
but yea, Canada is his biggest 'mistake', OP...
Canada was not a mistake, everything he did was 100% intentional.
and i bet OP votes for him/enablers again given the chance.
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u/baxterstate 2d ago
How was Covid his fault? Silly me for thinking Covid originated in China! Weren’t vaccines produced during his term? Didn’t Biden take one of them?
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u/neverendingchalupas 2d ago edited 2d ago
The US CDC under previous administrations acted globally to contain viral outbreaks, like ebola in West Africa under Obama.
Trump cut the CDC staff and resources in China by 75%, and then removed our liaison to the Chinese government. On report of the outbreak the CDC in China did not even have the resources to travel to Wuhan to investigate and help contain the outbreak.
Trump didnt increase resources on report of the viral outbreak either. Instead he increased his attacks on China blaming them for the outbreak before any investigation. The continued rhetoric of the Trump administration, the threats and blaming. Caused China to withdraw from cooperation with the World Health Organization.
Trump then refused to pass any restrictions against travel, and people coming into the US. And only enacted travel restrictions after the virus had started spreading in the US. Throughout the entire pandemic, and even now, worked to sabotage states individual responses to contain and control the spread of the virus.
This includes the illegal seizure of private sales of PPE.
Trump exploited the pandemic for his own personal financial gain, and spread an enormous amount of disinformation that ended up creating significant issues for regions trying to contain the spread of the virus.
Trump encouraged the spread of the virus, and pushed conspiracy theories instead of science.
Trump isnt just responsible for the million or so deaths within the US, hes responsible for millions of deaths globally. Trump specifically used the CIA, to spread disinformation about the Chinese vaccination, which then spread to other countries including back to the US.
He is a terrorist and a traitor to the United States, but more so he is a threat to the continued existence of modern civilization.
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u/uhp787 2d ago edited 2d ago
don't be obtuse. his early response to covid...no masks, horse paste and fucking bleach killed a lot of fucking people with that anti-vax horse shit...strangely it was his base that took more of the deaths....
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u/baxterstate 2d ago
How many people died from bleach?
Horse paste? What was that?
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u/PoliticalDiscussion-ModTeam 2d ago
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u/baxterstate 2d ago
Not weaponizing the justice department?
Who did that, Jack Smith?
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u/Objective_Aside1858 2d ago
Seriously? Is that your best defense for the actions of the Trump Administration?
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u/KoldPurchase 2d ago
I really don't want to hear answers like, "Trump is a Nazi/Fascist and that's what they do". No, that's not what they do.
The only analogy I can think of was the Anschluss of Austria by Germany in the 1930s.
Putin and Crimea, Ukraine. Don't look too far.
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u/baxterstate 2d ago
Crimea happened during Obama’s term. Ukraine was invaded during Biden’s term. Please apply historical knowledge before posting.
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u/CouchieWouchie 2d ago edited 2d ago
Fascists often introduce their ideas as "jokes." As the jokes spread and become familiar, the ideas behind them gradually lose their shock value and become less and less of a joke. Eventually, people are no longer being asked to accept an outrageous proposition out of nowhere, but merely to take seriously an idea to which they have already become accustomed. Humour thus serves as a vehicle for normalizing what would otherwise be considered unthinkable. This was one of the mechanisms by which antisemitic ideas were radicalized in Germany during the 1920s, building on the antisemitism already deeply entrenched. Trump's initial campaign for presidency first started as a "joke". Now he's president. He understands how this works.
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u/relaxd80 2d ago
Kind of like joking around for years about “Trump 2028”, making and selling merchandise while acting like he’s just trolling people… Trump is never voluntarily leaving the white house.
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u/uhp787 2d ago
you are exactly right imo. i was talking about the midterm/28 elections with someone and they insist dems can win 2028. i told him no way trump willing leaves the white house after erecting monuments to himself/naming all the things and that ballroom...no one builds a ball room at their residence if they are planning to leave...
them: but that will be useful for future presidents.
me: you think he cares about who is behind him? that ballroom is for him and his parasitic rich boys and no one else.
shit, i will be impressed if he doesn't declare some kind of emergency to stop or nullify the midterms.
everyone acting like it is business as usual and it is in a way. .just not the 'business' they are thinking of. democracy is a crap shoot in amaerica now and folks really need to wake up.
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u/OcelotBrave8818 2d ago
Our leader made him look weak and his douchebag ego can’t handle being made to look weak because he’s so weak. So he does something stupid that weakens him even more and then lies about it and doubles down and triples down until everybody is thoroughly disgusted and appalled at how pathetic and weak and stupid he is. It’s the same pattern a hundred times over. How so many people fail to it is baffling. It’s not hidden at all.
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u/unurbane 2d ago
Well as an American Canada doesn’t rank in the top 20 of biggest mistakes made by Trump.
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u/mgyro 2d ago
You voted for a puppet of Putin. Canada as a target is one of many overt actions Trump has taken to further Putin’s long term goals to destabilize western democracies and break NATO. History will not be kind to you and your like.
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u/baxterstate 2d ago
See, this is the kind of answer I was afraid of. Thanks for nothing.
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u/mgyro 2d ago
It’s the truth. It was obvious to anyone paying attention from the beginning, but it was explicitly spelled out in paint by numbers in 2019. All you had to do was read the Mueller report.
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u/baxterstate 2d ago
The Mueller report found nothing.
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u/mgyro 2d ago edited 2d ago
The investigation established that the Russian government interfered in the 2016 presidential election in a "sweeping and systematic fashion." This occurred primarily through two avenues:
A massive social media campaign by the Internet Research Agency (IRA) designed to spread disinformation, sow social discord, and favor Donald Trump.
Computer-hacking and cyber operations by Russian military intelligence (the GRU) against the Democratic National Committee (DNC), the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee (DCCC), and Hillary Clinton's campaign staff, followed by the public release of stolen materials via WikiLeaks and related personas.Investigators examined roughly 11 major episodes of potential obstruction of justice by President Trump—including the firing of FBI Director James Comey, pressures placed on Attorney General Jeff Sessions, and attempts to restrict or fire Special Counsel Robert Mueller.
The report resulted in criminal charges against 7 U.S. citizens, 26 Russian nationals, and 1 Dutch citizen). Paul Manafort, Roger Stone, Michael Cohen, Rick Gates and Michael Glynn among them were charged and convicted.
Edit: the only reason Trump wasn’t charged was bc Mueller was holding to protocol surrounding the DOJ and a sitting president. But he did say that if Trump was not guilty he could state that, but couldn’t, meaning . . .
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u/Matt2_ASC 2d ago
I have a copy of the Mueller report that says otherwise. Let me know if you want to borrow it.
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u/SpikeTheRight 2d ago
OP you should listen to Rubios speech recently in which he promoted the idea that major powers - the US, Europe, probably Russia - should return to an era of unabashed expansion. The countries you mentioned are simply too small, weak, and poor to consider expanding beyond their borders.
I know you don’t want to hear it, but you voted for a fascist and now you’re getting fascist things happening. SOY.
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u/baxterstate 2d ago
No fascist in the history of the universe would allow courts to overrule him or allow the media to criticize him. Calling Trump a fascist weakens the meaning of fascism.
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u/Feetbox 2d ago
Do you think Trump doesn't silence the media because he doesn't want to, or because he can't?
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u/baxterstate 2d ago
I don't think he wants to. He hasn't even taken any action against Tucker Carlson who went on NPR of all places in September and spoke about his break with Trump over the Iran War.
I listen to NPR each morning on my way to work and NPR has not let up on Trump.
When Musk broke with Trump, Trump just turned his attention elsewhere and now, months later, they seem to have made up.
In my opinion, Trump is not a dictator or a fascist. That's just the usual Democrat Party nonsense red meat for their uneducated base.
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u/Matt2_ASC 2d ago
"Let him go get a television network" was Trump's comment on Carlson. Tucker is no longer at Fox so he is insignificant in the grand scheme of Trump's media world.
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u/Toadsrule84 2d ago
Yeah God forbid Canada want to protect its small dairy farms instead of allow mega dairies to take over as they have in America.
Plus I thought maga believes we have too many immigrants. I know they rarely think about anything outside of Americas borders, but do they think Canada is all white people like 1950? Are they not aware that Canada is 20% foreign born?
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u/Ghoulius-Caesar 2d ago
It’s part of Putin’s plan. Dividing USA/Canada/Western Europe works in Russia’s favour.
Why is Trump helping Russia? Well, find me an example of Trump critiquing Russia/Putin? Pretty hard isn’t it. Maybe there’s a simple explanation: Putin has comprising information on Trump and he uses it to control him.
Putin headed the FSB while Trump was heavily featured in tabloids about his sexual exploits. I don’t think it’s really hard to draw a link between the two.
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u/baxterstate 2d ago
Please apply historical knowledge instead of repeating your antipathy towards Trump. At a NATO meeting, he called out NATO for becoming dependent on Russian energy when Russia is the very reason for the formation of NATO.
Where were your criticisms when Russia took Crimea during the Obama administration and invaded Ukraine during the Biden administration? I get that you don’t like Trump. I’m asking for objective analysis, not your personal, uninformed opinions.
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u/thedabking123 2d ago
It amazes me that people are onboarding ever more convoluted takes on his actions to justify their past support of him.
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u/Obstructive 2d ago
You were so close! You correctly identified that fascism is often accompanied by policies of isolation and anti immigration but in your diatribe, you never explored what the Nazi policies advocated…. I wonder why that would be.
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u/kamikaze44 2d ago
The most recent Maggie Haberman book has some insight on this. Trump thinks he is a world historic figure on the same level as Napoleon or Alexander the Great and the best way to cement that legacy is to add land to the US. There is also a picture of North America in the colours of the US flag that Natalie Harp often prints out for him to look at which seemed to usually results in him posting something about Canada becoming the 51st state. I know you're looking for some deeper 5d chess explanation but I do suspect the most straightforward answer is that he is a sundowning 80 year old that has a weird fixation and is surrounded by enablers.
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u/Carbon_Gelatin 2d ago
Because like his fascist voters, he is a fascist, and wants to play strongman.
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2d ago
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u/Carbon_Gelatin 2d ago
Id be embarrased to openly announce i voted for trump, but here we are.
You asked a question that was essentially "I shit in the fan, and now the entire room is covered in shit... why?"
Id be embarrased about that too.
But here we are.
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u/baxterstate 2d ago
You’re getting into partisan opinion, which I specifically didn’t want.
I lay Ukraine at the feet of Obama, who did nothing when Putin invaded Ukraine.
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u/onlyontuesdays77 2d ago
The best I can do is outline my analysis of Trump's behavior as a whole, providing some context to this and his other decisions:
Donald Trump is best explained in terms of megalomania, not fascism. Donald probably couldn't define fascism. His behaviors often align with behaviors exhibited by fascist leaders, but he is not following fascism - he would never brand himself a follower of an ideology invented by someone else. He has made his own ideology, which in its simplest form can be defined as "whatever Trump wants to do whenever he wants to do it."
Through the lens of megalomania, Trump is easily understood. He has clearly stated he wants to build a monumental arch for himself. He is putting his name (and face, in many cases) on every institution and government building he can. He is remaking national landmarks like the White House in his own image. His ambition has always been to be at the top of the food chain and to remain an everlasting idol - a legendary legacy.
Many of Trump's actions, especially those which align with fascism, are part of a revenge tour against people who stood in the way of his desired legacy. This is revenge against the left, revenge against RINOs, and revenge against the limitations of government. He deliberately withholds funding from blue states, removes Democrats from bipartisan commissions, refuses to fund programs put in place by Democrats, and tears down the laws and institutions valued by Democrats. A certain wing of the Republican party believed Trump to be a blip and hoped to return to normal conservative politics - instead, they were rebuked by Trump and primaried out of their seats in Congress. And in Trump's first term, the checks and balances of government were an environment he was unaccustomed to. For Americans, those are key protections for our rights. For Trump, they were obstacles. He is accustomed to being CEO, and having everyone do as they were told. In government, he is shackled by protocol, constitutionality, and bipartisan negotiation. In his second term, he has obliterated many of these protections, and ignored courts that ordered him to reinstate them. It is very much "my way or the highway" in Washington now.
Trump is not respected on the world stage. Putin considers him an amateur. Europe thinks he's nuts. And it's not a secret - Trump knows how people view him, and he treats them accordingly. He's not interested in playing by everyone else's rules or adhering to their standards of decorum. Just as he considers the rest of the government to be subordinate to him and his orders, he considers the rest of the world to be subordinate to America and America's interests.
Trump doesn't want Greenland for protection. He chose it as an easy target: rich in untapped resources, sparsely populated, and ruled by a country many times smaller and further away than the US. Acquiring Greenland would result in lucrative resource and land deals (at the expense, of course, of the natural environment and local populations), and would greatly expand America's territory on the map. In short, taking Greenland would be a gem in his crown - a legacy not easily washed away by vengeful Democrats.
Trump's designs on Canada are a little different. The "51st state" rhetoric is not so much a declaration of intent as it is an insult, along the lines of "you're nothing" or "I own you." He is attempting to bully Canada. He never cared much for America's old alliances, he's more interested in being the big kid on the playground. Pie in the sky, perhaps, he would cow the Canadian government into making concessions, potentially inspiring a chunk of the Canadian population to aspire to annexation. But that's unrealistic, and I'm sure he knows that. What he will do, however, is rename lakes, hurl trade threats, and post insults on social media in order to belittle Canadian leaders. He wants to take Canada's lunch money, so to speak, because it makes him feel powerful. He's announcing "I am the king" to all our neighbors - but as Tywin Lannister said, of course, anyone who has to say "I'm the king" is no true king.
Lastly, Trump does not want your input. He does not care what you think is right or what you would prefer to do. He will do what he wants to do, and then brag about the outcome whether it's actually what he aimed for or not. Voters are not constituents to him, they are worshippers, and they will do as they are commanded. None of them can touch his level of power; casting their vote in his favor is the best they can do, like a tithe to his church.
In summary, Trump is a megalomaniac who does not operate based on pre-existing ideologies and does not respect old partnerships that do not serve his interests. He is interested in bullying others into accepting him as the all-time top dog and leaving behind a legacy that can't be chiseled away.
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u/phthalo-azure 2d ago
There's an old saying: "vote for a clown, get a circus." The American electorate decided that it was more important to vote for someone who made fun of disabled people, claimed falsely that immigrants were eating our cats and dogs, had valid accusations of rape and sexual assault levied against him, had lost numerous lawsuits that showed he was a garden variety conman in his business dealings, and had spent his entire first term doing stupid things like this (threatening to annex a sovereign nation).
He's a corrupt and soulless person doing corrupt and soulless things. What did you expect him to do?
For a list of his finest offerings (from just his second term - about 18 months), look here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_allegations_during_the_second_Trump_presidency
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u/Rubicon816 2d ago
Canada doesn't even rank in the top 10 for mistakes. To answer the question though, no, there doesnt seem to be any justification or rationale behind it. Cant say it was an opinion ever really expressed by anyone before he decided to make it an issue. Have never encountered anyone that supported it or could make an argument on why it was a good idea.
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u/Intro-Nimbus 2d ago
First: Thank you for going out on a limb and declare yourself willing to discuss politics as a republican. It is really hard to talk to one of you, because on all the republican forums you get banned if you don't subscribe to the official party line.
Now:
"Though I agree with DOGE". What exactly in hiring a foreigner to waste enormous sums and ruin a large number of domestic federal programs to save nothing (actually is cost billions) and harvest the data of US citizens is it you agree with?
"Biggest mistake" Alienating Canada was really stupid, but the war with Iran, completely unnecessary, there was a treaty in place that stopped Iran from developing nukes, but Trump cancelled it. USA is now bleeding enormous sums over a war that stems from president snowflakes bruised ego. There was nothing to gain in that war, and the world is experiencing an energy crisis, and economic growth is reduced worldwide because of it.
Oh, and on the topic of nukes - greenlighting Saudi nukes? I thought the whole idea was to stop countries in the middle-east from developing nukes?!
The trade war with the world that is placing USA in the backyard while China is profiting was also incredibly stupid. Especially since he does not seem to understand what a trade deficit, or a tariff even entails!
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u/baxterstate 2d ago
I don’t agree with you that the treaty with Iran would have prevented Iran from developing nukes. Iran’s leadership has been a troublemaker in the region since they deposed the Shah. Trump must’ve known that war with Iran would have led to higher gasoline prices which would have made the midterms even worse for him. He must’ve thought it important enough to risk losing the midterms.
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u/UncleMeat11 2d ago
I don’t agree with you that the treaty with Iran would have prevented Iran from developing nukes.
It factually did.
Trump must’ve known that war with Iran would have led to higher gasoline prices which would have made the midterms even worse for him. He must’ve thought it important enough to risk losing the midterms.
Trump is still lying and saying that shipping traffic is flowing normally. He likes big explosions and thought that he'd be done in three days. He absolutely did not make some sort of reasoned calculation that the benefit to global safety (ha!) was worth the predicted rise in fuel prices.
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u/baxterstate 2d ago
YOu're just wrong about Iran.
www.unitedagainstnucleariran.com/iran-nuclear-deal
This came out before Trump became President. Here's a quote in case you don't want to look it up:
- The deal emboldens and enriches an extremist anti-American terror state thereby furthering Iran's expansionist and destabilizing activities.
Regional Instability
- The windfall of sanctions relief freed up hundreds of billions of dollars to finance Tehran’s many destabilizing activities.
- Iran continues to be the world’s leading state-sponsor of terrorism, backing Hezbollah and Hamas, both of which have American blood on their hands.
- The deal fails to guarantee the peaceful nature of Iran’s nuclear program—rather, it gives Iran a clear pathway to nuclear weapons.
Sunset Clause
- The deal provides Iran a clear pathway to nuclear weapons as restrictions on its uranium- enrichment and plutonium-processing capacities end (‘sunset’) between 2026 and 2031
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u/D4UOntario 2d ago
The Chinese just quietly open up dollar stores and take your money. Once you cant afford infrastructures they buy the infrastructure companies and trade infrastructure for ports and airports, then they buy the railroads. Not once do the insult or even mention taking you over. That's 4d chess, meanwhile trump cant even play checkers
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u/I405CA 2d ago edited 2d ago
Think about what Canada, Greenland, Iran and Venezuela all have in common.
That's the answer.
Trump's goal has been to bully the first two and attack the last two so that he could get natural resources for his own account. Only one of those efforts has been successful, while one of the others has been a complete disaster.
Trump wrongly assumes that having the world's largest military means that he can get whatever he wants, whenever he wants it. It isn't helping him that his defense secretary is an incompetent himbo who knows less than nothing.
That, and I suspect that the "Melania kiss" with Justin Trudeau really pissed him off, even though nothing really happened.
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u/baxterstate 2d ago
Venezuela was just removing a dictator. I applaud what he did in Venezuela. He didn’t install anyone else. He didn’t talk about annexation. Greenland makes some sense. Geographically, it closer to the USA, and Denmark can’t defend Greenland. He also didn’t insult Greenlanders the way he did Canadians.
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u/UncleMeat11 2d ago
Venezuela was just removing a dictator. I applaud what he did in Venezuela.
Great job he did given that the regime is still in place and there is no more democratic governance there now than before. Venezuela was not actually about freeing the population.
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u/214ObstructedReverie 2d ago edited 2d ago
Though I agree with his border policy, his DOGE policy
DOGE simultaneously made the government less efficient and somehow cost more. How could anyone still agree with it?
If your issue is waste, then why has Trump systematically undermined the very mechanisms designed to detect waste, fraud, and corruption? He fired 19 IGs, has left tons of watchdog positions vacant, and DOGE claimed savings that turned out to mostly be deception and accounting malpractice, while then spending even more money to fix the major problems they created.
All while his appointees treat their department budgets like their personal slush funds. I mean, Noem alone...
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u/UncleMeat11 2d ago
Trump has been the protagonist of our politics for the past decade. Why are we still asking "is there some reasonable and logical argument for what he is doing." There isn't. He is a man of pure id.
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u/fuzzyjelly 2d ago
should have been handled discreetly and diplomatically
Well there's your problem.
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u/GrowFreeFood 2d ago
Its literally just a distraction to get people talking about anything except epstien. It's a psy-op to distract.
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u/mangotrees777 2d ago
Why shouldn't Canada make the US its 11th province? Maybe Mexico needs a 32nd state? Estado Libre y Soberano de Dakota del Norte sounds better than North Dakota anyway.
This is just as dumb as the US annexing our closest allies.
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u/ExtensionFeeling 2d ago
I kind of doubt he was serious about annexing Canada. I mean if they had really wanted to join, maybe he would've considered it. But he would've been adding tons of Democrat votes to the country, lol
I gotta ask you, though...as someone who voted for Trump, why do you think he would handle anything "discreetly and diplomatically" and not in an "insulting way?" Are you young and maybe 2024 was the first election you could vote in? Just a guess. No offense, it just genuinely baffles me when people think Trump is some kind of shrewd statesman, like we're living in different universes.
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u/baxterstate 2d ago
I gotta ask you, though...as someone who voted for Trump, why do you think he would handle anything "discreetly and diplomatically" and not in an "insulting way?"
The operation in Venezuela was done in secret and the President made no attempt toward regime change.
Despite having sanctions against the Myanmar government, he's been holding back channel negotiations with them. Same is true with back channel talks with Russia and China.
The entire operation in Venezuela was done secretly and Trump refrained from regime change.
He's been blustering about Cuba, but he hasn't done anything substantive.
Obviously, he knows how to do it. That's why I'm bewildered at his treatment of Canada. No one gives a shit about Myanmar or Venezuela. The number of Venezuelan immigrants in the USA who vote is small. On the other hand, a lot of Americans have family and friends in Canada. I have neither, but I've been to Canada more often than any other country outside the USA. I love Canada. Politically, Trump is pissing off a lot more voters with his treatment of Canada. I don't see the upside for Trump.
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u/ALORALIQUID 2d ago
As a Canadian, I took the 51st-State comments as trolling. It’s not something America would do, in my opinion. Sadly though, Canadians have taken it at face value, and it’s truly turned our people upside down. In fact, you could even say our current Prime Minister is actually a result of Trumps rhetoric on this.
I guess the moral of the story is: words matter. And how things are said, or how people interpret them, can have a direct result in how a mass of people view a person in leadership
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u/Makachai 2d ago
I have to disagree. Also a Canadian, and Mark Carney doesn't owe his popularity to Trump. Doug Ford is even more antagonistic to Trump and most of Ontario hates his guts.
Mark Carney owes his popularity to three things.
Being an internationally known and respected economist.
Trudeau fatigue
Running against an utterly unelectable dweeb that's never held a job in his life, that tanked his party's 25 point lead, lost the election again, and lost his own seat in the process.
Conservatives would have a legit chance at forming government again if they'd run someone competent, but they dug in on PP again, and even parachuted him into an Alberta seat. (Not sure PP has been back since).
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u/ALORALIQUID 2d ago
All good points 💜
I never understood the hate PP receives. I’ve watched many of his speeches, seems like he’s extremely for Canada and Canadians.
I feel like a lot do hatred towards him comes from MSM, but that’s a whole other convo reallyAppreciate the banter friend, and I hope you and your fam are enjoying a great start to your weekend! 🇨🇦 💜
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u/Baulderdash77 2d ago
You have to look at is as a part of a long term strategy. The U.S. has issued its “Donroe” doctrine that it believes it has the right to anything in the western hemisphere by really any means. Section 232 tarrifs are national security tarrifs. They are applied because the U.S. is arguing that Canada is a security risk to the U.S.
The U.S. no longer puts any stock in the value of allies. Everything is a transaction.
The 51st state commentary is part of a long term play to normalize the idea of manifest destiny again. It’s one step before the revitalization of the 54-40 discussion.
The U.S. is attempting to destabilize Canada economically and diplomatically to force it to capitulate to U.S. dominance into a rump state.
It’s not trolling, you’re just not looking at the bigger picture.
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u/OutrageousSummer5259 2d ago
While I agree it's a bad look trump is just trolling them cause he's a giant man child. It's never been serious
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u/ThlintoRatscar 2d ago
To steel-man the argument, Canada is in a superficially weak trade position.
By offering extremely generous terms with the onerous condition of becoming an American state, Trump created a situation where Canada was supposed to accept concessions that they otherwise wouldn't because the only way to get what they want was to become a State.
Where things went sideways was the Canadian culture of preferring to burn it all down, including the benefits to their own people, rather than accept a worse deal then they currently have out of pride.
That is not rational sovereign behaviour.
So, the Trump team applied the consequences to show exactly how weak a position Canada was actually in so that they would capitulate.
Canada replied asymmetrically using specific weak spots to thwart American strength.
Essentially, Canada used economic aikido that is unexpectedly effective.
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u/Baulderdash77 2d ago
“It’s not rational sovereign behaviour”.
It’s actually very sovereign behaviour. The U.S. failed to see that Canada had agency and an identity. So it was surprised when Canada acts with its own agency and and self interest.
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u/ThlintoRatscar 2d ago edited 2d ago
Well, arguably, it's never self-interest to suffer.
The argument is that the strong will crush the weak so the weak should never fight as it's a foregone conclusion.
Rationally, everyone wins if the fight never happens.
The economic and political aikido is the miscalculation ( assuming Canada doesn't just suffer for a bit, realise that pain hurts, and give in more later ).
America may not be as strong as it appears and Canada may not be as weak as it appears either.
America is currently testing that theory.
Further, Trump has a way of exposing weak will in opponents where he's willing to inflict pain both using power and via guilt.
"You're mean and nasty" has a way of making people stop hitting back and eroding the will to do that.
"Join us on our terms and it will be wonderful" has a similar erosion of will to suffer effect.
Canada isn't above playing that game either.
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