Thatâs so true. I am deep blue and I have an American flag sticker on the back of my vehicle. No MAGA turd is allowed to hijack my patriotism with their small brand of nationalism.
Patriotism is really just one facet of nationalism.
Nowadays nationalism is so deep-rooted and such a strong default that it's barely even recognized. As an ideology, nationalism really means the belief that there ought to be a state for a nation, where nation is the people who share a national identity.
So nationalism is the ideology that says that nation states are a good thing and should exist.
But because that's such a basic everyday mundane thing, we don't talk about nationalism as being that anymore, but instead nationalism has moved to essentially mean aggressive, supremacist, radical nationalism.
I perceive patriotism as a healthy love of country. And nationalism in its current form as you have described it, if you want to call it radical nationalism, it fits where we are now. History tells me nothing good comes out of that.
What we have most of all is a plutocracy that has pitted many of the rest of Americans against one another, aided by bots like the one commenting on this topic in favor of nationalism.
After writing my comment, I tried to sort of google around for the more exact terminology, and I think the concept of civic nationalism and civic nation states kind of hit it. Can be contrasted to ethnocentric nationalism.
Personally I see it as kind of just very likely that "mundane nationalism" or "civic nationalism" sooner or later starts slipping towards "radical nationalism" or "ethnocentric nationalism".
Anyhow - part of what I sort of wanted to say was really that we've weirdly become to lack a commonly understood and shared term for the belief that nation states are something wanted, required, or desired (even tho USA is a federated state, it's in practice a type of a nation state; American people more or less share a national identity even thou it's less about one's ethnic history and more about the American values and the willingness to fit in, and the American state more or less is supposed to be representative of this shared identity by embodying its key values and beliefs).
So nationalism is the ideology that says that nation states are a good thing and should exist.
... Kinda but not really. It's more like the ideology that the nation-state is a good thing and that the state monoculture should be upheld by all within it.
Yeah, what I wrote was a very terse version of it.
Anyway, USA as it now is fits the bill pretty well, and patriotism is indeed one of the things that helps build this sort of shared view to the history and standing of the nation.
And might also be true that it can be in a bit of a conflict with some of the founding ideas. But then, several of the ideas were more or less disregarded pretty early on, like within a decade from the ratification of the Constitution.
Both parties are owned by billionaires and corporations, dude. But there is one party, that puts corporations over people every single time.
And yes, celebrities often endorse Democrats cause people in the arts have always leaned towards the left. Ainât our fault nobody with talent wants to be associated with yall. At least Kid Rock was available đ¤ˇđťââď¸
Celebrities endorse the left because they donât live in the neighborhoods decimated by leftist policies. They get to sound virtuous while not being accountable for the failures of their naive ideas.
Itâs really easy to say âeveryone should get free everythingâ when you arenât writing the check. Itâs really easy to say âno one should go to jailâ when you arenât living in the neighborhoods where lifelong criminals terrorize people constantly.
Right, I could continue replying to nonsense the whole day but Iâm no longer entertained . The last thing Iâll say is what neighborhoods are this you are talking about? Have you seen the comparison in quality of life between red and blue states? There, you have some homework.
Summary: Its gonna be NYC đ Hog-scrotum, Arkansas
Itâs just putting the interests of the nation first. As opposed to globalism where we naively put the needs of everyone else first while they sap us dry.
Itâs also about preserving our identity and values as a nation and not allowing them to be rewritten by immigrants from failed states or their sympathizers.
Nations are the product of the ideas of their people. We donât want to embrace the ideas of the people from Somalia or Afghanistan or Syria or Libya or Cuba or North Korea and so on because then we eventually become those places.
Oh that's right it requires that there's people inside of your nation that are actually evil and need to be eradicated from it to make it what it was before.
nationalism
/ËnaSH(É)nÉËlizÉm/
Nationalism is an ideology and movement that asserts a nation's interests, culture, and identity should come before all other individual or group interests, and that a nation should govern itself independently without outside interference.
Tell me which part you disagree with and which part makes me a Nazi
No it isnât lmfao. Naziism is totalitarian ethno-nationalism. Thatâs like saying socialism is the exact same thing as authoritarian soviet-era communism. Itâs just something an uneducated person would say
Removing illegal immigrants? Yes, absolutely. Do I support the shooting of Alex Pretti? No, but I also understand it was a miscommunication and an isolated incident and doesnât warrant dismantling the entire organization and just accepting that we have 10-20 million illegal immigrants in the country.
Boil everything down to "us good, them bad" with whatever arbitrary us and them lines have been drawn that week. They claim patriotism, but can rarely articulate what things they are actually patriotic about.
Thatâs not nationalism. Thatâs fascism. Nationalism is just putting the interests and sovereignty of the nation first. Itâs the opposite of globalism, which is largely used by the international community to make America subsidize the rest of the world, import infinity unskilled and unvetted invaders, and outsource and weaken our economy.
You could have actually come out looking okay if you had just said "nationalism means putting domestic issues first," and then it would seem like an agreeable position.
But then you start cramming in ignorance and racism, and it reveals what supporters of nationalism actually believe.
Youâre exposing your own racism by acting like unskilled illegal immigrants are a race. Iâm not concerned with appealing to the sensibilities of a group of people essentially calling me a Nazi because they donât know what nationalism is.
Do you believe itâs a good idea to let in 20 million people we donât know anything about, so they can work under the table for slave wages, contribute nothing and refuse to integrate into the American way of life? Is it really worth it just so avocados can be 10 cents cheaper and democrats can have more voters from 2nd and 3rd gen immigrants trying to keep their parents from being deported?
I honestly and genuinely want to know why you would support that.
No no no, sorry, that's not how this works. Like most racists, you've learned that being called a racist is a bad thing, but seem not to grasp that you're called a racist because you're expressing racist views. Calling me a racist isn't a response, because I haven't expressed racist views.
I thought you were all about disabusing people of narrow views of political positions, but now authoritarianism requires imprisonment of dissidents, and it can't possibly be authoritarianism without that?
It was a half joke, not meant to be taken quite so literally. But seriously, do you think no kings would have ever happened at the scale it did in a true authoritarian dictatorship?
Look at Iran for how a real authoritarian government deals with dissidents.
Broadly speaking, nationalism doesnât take into account the fact that basically no nation is an island and needs large amounts of compromise, cooperation and allies to achieve success. The US wouldnât be anywhere without those three things, no matter what anyone says. Weâre a nation built on treaties, international trade and the grim history of labor we imported or allowed in from other nations. It also encourages some really destructive and unnecessarily self sacrificing mindsets among the populace.
Nationalism and international cooperation are not mutually exclusive. It just asserts that cooperation should actually be fair and a net positive for the nation, unlike things like NATO where no one was paying their fair share except us, or unlimited unskilled illegal immigration facilitated by exploiting the refugee process.
Iâm assuming the self-sacrificing things youâre referring to is the general expectation that people should defend the identity and sovereignty of their nation?
Except NATO serves a purpose, even politically itâs a useful tool for defense and alliances. Same for immigration, we NEED that cheap labor, so many industries rely on it that we in turn rely upon. Thatâs the issue, so much of nationalism is short sighted and wanting material, easily measurable payoff NOW. It doesnât care about diplomacy, or image, or forward motion, or long term structural planning. It wants immediate action, or at least the illusion of it, even when that action is ill advised. Itâs pride above humility. Ego.
Depends what you mean by that. If you mean broadly defense against people attacking us with weapons and guns, or opposing international money in politics, then no, thatâs not what I was referring to. If you mean over-glorifying military service as macho men and striking out always being justified, or fighting against cultural change and hating immigrants and foreigners for being here, thatâs what I mean by destructive and self-sacrificing.
It typically assumes that people who had the luck of being born within a country are somehow superior to those who weren't, even if those who are in the latter group come to said country and perfectly assimilate into their culture, nationalism dictates that they are still lesser and assumes they more loyal to their homeland.
Nationalism is not against immigrants who assimilate at all. Thatâs exactly what nationalists want them to do. Nationalists are against immigrants using the nation as a vehicle to enrich their home country, or immigrants coming here to try to make our nation into the one they fled.
Yes thatâs why I choose to live in the most non-white part of the country and like 1% of the people Iâm friends with or interact with are white. Also why I never voted for Trump. Youâre so right little buddy
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u/VintageK-Po 5h ago
Thatâs so true. I am deep blue and I have an American flag sticker on the back of my vehicle. No MAGA turd is allowed to hijack my patriotism with their small brand of nationalism.