wero for digital sovereignty

[u/itscrazybaby]

Proton should offer wero, the European alternative to PayPal, as a payment method. Otherwise, in my view, offering only PayPal is sovereignty washing.

[u/Constant-Ability6101]

Subscriptions via Wero are not fully supported yet

[u/Furdiburd10 → u/Constant-Ability6101]

Maybe add it as a method to add Credits to your account, that could work

[u/Constant-Ability6101 → u/Furdiburd10]

Depends how (if) they have monetary wallet but yes - many companies are using discounts (they take money and convert into discount) but that requires managing shitload of discounts and rules which is not the always the best way to control the revenue leakage

[u/itscrazybaby → u/Constant-Ability6101]

Then Proton could be a pilot project.

[u/Constant-Ability6101 → u/itscrazybaby]

Well it doesn't work that way - subscriptions via Wero need to be supported by participating banks.

Then you have the whole charging schedule, mandate that need to be confirmed etc.

[u/itscrazybaby → u/Constant-Ability6101]

If you want something, you'll find a way.

[u/Constant-Ability6101 → u/itscrazybaby]

I do not think you know how payments work - Wero has a very long way to go, we do need EU based wallet for sure so I hope they succeed, but it's based on SEPA which also makes some things more difficult compared to for example cards.

What is significant for adoption is a low cost for merchant but as we see in DE for example with high adoption of very expensive PayPal it doesn't always translate into usage.

[u/itscrazybaby → u/Constant-Ability6101]

I know very well how payments work, and Wero is already integrated into several shops. It's a question of will.

[u/Constant-Ability6101 → u/itscrazybaby]

For subscription? Show me

[u/itscrazybaby → u/Constant-Ability6101]

You didn't understand what exactly about Proton was supposed to be pilot.

[u/Constant-Ability6101 → u/itscrazybaby]

It's a subscription business so pls enlighten me

[u/itscrazybaby → u/Constant-Ability6101]

They should partner with wero to be the first subscription model available at wero.

[u/Toxic-Sky → u/itscrazybaby]

If the API doesn't support it, and the banks aren't onboard, then it is very little one can do. If you want a service handling subscriptions, then you need a provider that can handle authorization and confirmation. You cannot say to a provider that doean't support a function to just draw X amount and give it to the company each month. I have worked as a developer for fintech before, and what I described is my experience. Of you have similar credentials; I'm open to be corrected.

[u/itscrazybaby → u/Toxic-Sky]

The API will support it.

[u/Constant-Ability6101 → u/itscrazybaby]

Yeah of course but before it does tons of things needs to happen. Lots of things that moves super slow.

[u/itscrazybaby → u/Constant-Ability6101]

I find it very fast. Considering that so many different banks and acquirers need to be connected, they are very advanced.

[u/itscrazybaby → u/Toxic-Sky]

That's why I say they should do it as a pilot.

[u/Constant-Ability6101 → u/itscrazybaby]

You are still not getting it - They CANNOT do it alone - they need banks, billing engine and tons of other elements to PILOT it

[u/itscrazybaby → u/Constant-Ability6101]

'Wero' is a product from the banks? So they can test it together with Wero as a pilot project. I think you're misunderstanding something here.

Tons of other elements have already been developed by the banks for wero and are about to be launched.

[u/Nelizea]

Belgium, France and Germany

Find Wero either in your regular banking app or by downloading our Wero mobile app (depending on your bank). Many big banks in Belgium, France and Germany are already signed up (with more coming soon), so over 75% of people in these countries can start using Wero.

Hardly an alternative when not even 3 full countries are supported.

[u/Vinxian → u/Nelizea]

The Netherlands too, we are "in a transition period" but the current layer of wero is based of the Dutch IDeal

[u/derFensterputzer → u/Nelizea]

At least not yet

I assume once it's more widely accepted it would become an option? 

[u/itscrazybaby → u/Nelizea]

15 countries are compatible with wero via EuroPA

[u/JohnSpawnVFX → u/itscrazybaby]

Not for payments. That's only coming in 2027:

https://epicompany.eu/media-insights/bancomat-bizum-epi-sibs-and-vipps-mobilepay-sign-mou-to-accelerate-the-rollout-of-sovereign-pan-european-payment-solutions

OP is shilling hard for this while spreading misinformation. Anyone outside those countries and banks can at best transfer money to another person.

[u/yellow_code]

In Spain, we have Bizum (the equivalent of Wero), which does support subscription payments. It would be great if Proton included it among its payment methods.

[u/itscrazybaby → u/yellow_code]

Bizum is compatible with Wero; if Wero is integrated, you can pay me Bizum.

[u/yellow_code → u/itscrazybaby]

Not yet, but it will be in the future. However, for the time being, this only applies to person-to-person payments, not to e-commerce subscription payments. For the latter, they are still treated as if they were different payment methods. 

[u/Old-Student4579]

What are the differences with Revolut? I can send and receive money with it already and Revolut is widely accepted.

[u/apogiee → u/Old-Student4579]

Wero is a payment network, Revolut is a neobank. Revolut gives you a bank account. Wero provides a payment method for this account.

The problem European banks are trying to solve is whenever you use your Visa or Mastercard, the transaction is routed through the US. Every transaction means a fee to pay, and relying 100% on such a critical payment infrastructure you have zero control over is a big vulnerability in today's world.

Wero is a direct payment relying on SEPA Instant transfer. When you pay with Wero, for example by scanning a QR code in your banking app, it initiates an instant account-to-account bank transfer instead of using card payment rails.

Many European countries already have such local account-based payment systems (iDEAL in the Netherlands, Bizum in Spain, or Qvik here in Hungary). Wero's goal is to unify this model at a European level for euro payments and gradually add features to make it more comparable to card payments, such as subscriptions, contactless payments, broader merchant integration, etc.

[u/itscrazybaby → u/Old-Student4579]

What do you mean? Revolut is part of wero.

[u/Old-Student4579 → u/itscrazybaby]

Explain it please. Never heard of it. I saw Revolut in the wero list, but how this thing work?

Is the main purpose is "replace PayPal functions with smth European"?

[u/eyocs_ → u/Old-Student4579]

yeah the main point is: servers in EU and more independence. I think that alone is a selling point but not many people see it that way unfortunately. I hope the UX and things like that will be better than PayPal's because their (Paypal) app sucks imo..

[u/LowOwl4312]

Does Wero work without a phone app requiring iOS / Play Integrity? If not it is not sovereign.

Havent looked into it so apologies if my question is stupid 

[u/apogiee → u/LowOwl4312]

Using Wero does require an app, but it is typically integrated into your bank's app as a payment method. Whether that app requires iOS / Play Integrity depends on the specific app and bank itself and is not directly related to Wero.

[u/itscrazybaby → u/LowOwl4312]

It is as sovereign as possible, since there are no other established mobile OSs.

[u/LowOwl4312 → u/itscrazybaby]

I looked it up and it doesn't even work on desktop or in a browser... Sorry but I prefer paying by card or SEPA, at least it doesn't require a Google or Apple account

[u/itscrazybaby → u/LowOwl4312]

Desktop and browser are insecure

[u/AmonMetalHead → u/itscrazybaby]

So is Google, I degoogled years ago & i'm never going back

[u/itscrazybaby → u/AmonMetalHead]

Privacy is not synonymous with security.

[u/AmonMetalHead → u/itscrazybaby]

I didn't degoogle for the privacy aspect alone, I simply have no faith in their shit, I consider firefox to be more secure then an app running on a phone were you aren't even allowed to be "root", and where add-blockers aren't even allowed

[u/itscrazybaby → u/AmonMetalHead]

Adblockers are allowed on Android.

[u/AmonMetalHead → u/itscrazybaby]

No, they are not, they purged the app store a year or so ago

[u/itscrazybaby → u/AmonMetalHead]

No need for the Play Store

[u/AmonMetalHead]

Wait, that's not yet another crypto coin?

[u/itscrazybaby → u/AmonMetalHead]

no

[u/FrenchFreeThinker]

Wero has nothing to see with sovereignty. It strongly depends on US infrastructure. In addition, Wero is obsolete by design since instant payment solutions already exist.

[u/apogiee → u/FrenchFreeThinker]

Wero runs on SEPA Instant transfers, which means its core payment flow bypasses US payment infrastructure, and sovereignty is a key goal and driver.

Europe already has several instant payment systems, such as iDEAL in the Netherlands, Bizum in Spain, or qvik in Hungary. The issue is that these systems are largely national and not really interoperable. If your bank supports iDEAL, that does not help you to pay with Bizum in Spain or qvik in Hungary.

Wero's goal is to consolidate these fragmented systems into a single, large interoperable European payment network with shared standards and cross-border acceptance.

The coming contactless/NFC payments will be relying on existing Visa/Mastercard infrastructure and card rails, but is supposed to be an interim solution before eventually moving toward a direct SEPA-based account-to-account NFC model.

[u/Green-Entry-4548]

They should sit out wero. It will be obsolete once the digital Euros arrive anyway. This is basically just banks "rushing" ahead.

[u/itscrazybaby → u/Green-Entry-4548]

The digital euro is managed via the wero wallet. Banks don't want the digital euro, which makes sense since state-run solutions are more suited to China. Therefore, they will use it to make the wero wallet even more relevant.

[u/haagch → u/itscrazybaby]

The digital euro is managed via the wero wallet.

Very reductive. The banking apps that are used for Wero will also support the Digital Euro (to my understanding those will be separate things "on equal footing"), but where EPI as a private business (even as absurdly powerful as a conglomerate of major European banks) can tell anyone not on their preferred platform (Google, Apple) to get lost, the creators of the Digital Euro are thinking a lot more about inclusion. This for example speaks explicitly of Physical Cards and Web Interfaces / Online interfaces on a "Computer" as opposed to a Mobile device, meaning the Digital Euro is at least planned to enable many more ways to pay than Wero is willing to consider.

[u/itscrazybaby → u/haagch]

This example is outdated, and the private sector is constantly providing better solutions.