Hey everyone, final post regarding the radium applicator, the authorities have secured the orphan source! No more risk so, but also my collection of radioactive minerals and other objects, I post my latest photos taken with them! Once again, a big thank you for your answers! Other post will follow with some video's of the devices becoming crazy.
Also the final mass of radium is approximately 130uCi!
That's horrible in so many ways. One of which is a rare and historically significant surviving example of early radium quackery being condemned to live in a drum at the bottom of a land fill for all eternity.
I think this goes for most of EU states unfortunately - even for consumer items from the past. People still collect it but you can't post about it publicly and selling them on public websites is going to get reported. A friend's house got literally raided many years ago, collection was confiscated, he had to show up at court - at the end he only got some mandatory community service as sentence.
Don't assume that what is possible in US is also true for EU. A more sensible law would allow possession of consumer sold items from the past and should not ban everything (in some or even most states possession of radioactive sources can be a felony -> in worst case jail time).
Standard stuff that's posted here on Reddit - radium dials, maybe some emanator, check sources, uranium glass, some other interesting items from the radium era. I think also some rare luminous marker (WWII). Nothing as radioactive as this radium applicator. This was many years ago when you could buy this stuff on EU eBay sites or even from US and no one was checking it so it was easy to make a collection of interesting items. Unfortunately EU countries are overly-protective of their citizen and sometimes treat them like small children. If someone is still collecting this stuff in Europe I would be very careful and not post about it on the internet and be careful where you purchase your items from. I also got reported by eBay and I had to go explain it to the police, fortunately they didn't want to investigate further and accepted my answer (it was just a check source on a geiger counter). So take care... I gave up the few items I had.
I don't think radium paint does more damage than a regular explosive which you can create much much easier :-). Like terrorists would buy all the available radium watch hands and emanators from all over Europe, then strap it to a bomb to spread the material around maybe 100 meters diameter? The explosion itself would be deadly, the rest would achieve absolutely nothing.
Maybe that’s your sign to leave the EUSSR! Come to the United States, we’re allowed quite a bit of goodies here per the Code of Federal Regulations (10 CFR). The US utilizes a system of "exempt quantities" and "exempt concentrations." Private individuals are generally permitted to possess certain naturally occurring radioactive materials (NORM), small mineral samples (like uraninite), and specific historical consumer items (such as radium dial watches or low-activity ionizing smoke detectors) without a license, provided they are kept in quantities below established safety thresholds and are not used for commercial manufacture or distribution.
Under the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) framework, companies like Spectrum Techniques are legally permitted to manufacture and sell "Exempt Quantity" radioactive sources directly to the public, schools, and laboratories without requiring a specific radioactive materials license. [1, 2]
This works because of 10 CFR § 30.18, which states that individuals are exempt from licensing requirements if they possess byproduct materials in individual quantities that fall below the safety thresholds listed in Schedule B. [1, 2]
For the specific isotopes mentioned, the NRC allows individuals to buy and own these small, sealed check sources up to the following individual limits: [1] Cesium-137 (Cs-137): Up to 10 µCi per individual source. Cobalt-60 (Co-60): Up to 1 µCi per individual source. [1, 2]
Because these are manufactured as low-activity, epoxy-sealed reference disks or rods designed for educational and calibration purposes, US law deems them safe enough for regular mail and residential possession without tracking or mandatory regulatory intervention.
In those regards correct, you would need a license for that but there are sources that are spicy still even with a tiny amount that you can legally own without a specific license.
The silver-plated metal cap pictured is part of a modular medical radium applicator set from the 1900s or 1910s.
• The Distributor: These kits were sold commercially through a civil engineer named Henri Farjas (based at 18, rue Vignon, Paris), who served as the exclusive commercial agent for Armet de Lisle’s factory products.
• How It Worked: The silver cap unscrews to reveal a handle mechanism. Inside, it housed a flexible, bendable applicator rod. The tip of this rod was permanently fixed or coated with highly concentrated Radium-226 salts.
• Medical Purpose: In early 20th-century radiation therapy (brachytherapy), doctors would bend these rods to physically insert the radioactive tip deep inside a patient's body cavities—such as the throat, nose, or cervix—to blast localized tumors with alpha and gamma radiation.
Why is it so shockingly radioactive?
Many antique radium items (like Radium Girls' watch dials or "quack" health tonics) only contain trace amounts of radium mixed into paint or water. However, professional medical gear from this era is a completely different story.
• Pure Radiation Sources: Because this device was designed to aggressively treat cancer, it used highly concentrated, industrial-grade Radium-226 salts.
• The 1,600-Year Problem: Radium-226 has a half-life of 1,600 years. The material inside that container hasn't even decayed by 5% since the day Armet de Lisle manufactured it in Paris.
I lurk on this Sub from time to time and watched this unfold, but I have a few questions. Can someone elaborate on the actual use of this Radium Applicator? Also, why does the applicator appear burnt and dry rotted, is that just as a consequence of the immense radiation?
Far from an expert, but here's my take. It was used in cancer treatments, much like radiation is today, but it was probably a lot less scientific than it is now. Radium in military objects (watches, plane dials etc) sometimes literally burns the glass, or other materials close to it, over decades. Given how damn radioactive this is, I could see it having been slowly burned from the radiation over the decades.
This was an era where they made water jugs that would have radioactive material in them to irradiate the water. We are not talking about logical and studied ideas at all. Literal mad scientist stuff. You could rent an X-ray machine to have at a party so your guests could see what their bones looked like. This was a ln era where you could have a surgeon sew goat testicles into you. Heroin(TM) was sold by Bayer corporation in the Sears Robuck Catalog.
Me - Msc in Radiation protection. Nuclear power station accredited HP. 20 years as a first responder to incidents and accidents involving radioactivity and radiation. IAEA TECDOC contributor on radiation accidents. Worked in Russia, UK, Canada, US and Switzerland on various rad waste and accident response projects.
Yes I’m delighted they helped him dispose of this. I expect he/she is too. You should be.
I’d start by saying just look at it. This isn’t some double lazer welded sealed source capsule, its ~100 year old and completely dilapidated. Just dropping it is likely to break and potentially spread contamination. Its a chunky amount of radium, those doserates are significant.
History shows no matter what good intentions people have eventually theres a loss of control. I’ve attended a scene where theres been a personal stash of radium. The owner was long dead, no one knew what was there. Then some poor fireman happens to discover he’s in a high radiation field during a fire. You can generate significant hazards with items like this, normally for other people.
The legal framework will vary country to country but the core requirements are much the same. Something of this magnitude is large enough to require the set up of a “controlled area” which needs entry and egress controls. The source should be registered with a competent authority who will (amongst many things) keep the emergency services up to date on where sources are in case of fire etc. The source itself should be kept in a fireproof source store with access controls. The source itself needs to be subject to 2 yearly leak test.
I can’t imagine the OP has the capability to do anything of those things and stay the right side of the law. I’d also add most insurance policy for houses and cars have a specific exclusion for radioactive materials in
the T&Cs its highly like they wouldn’t pay out.
Finally the keeping it would run counter to the core principles of radiation protection set out by the UN. The core principles are often stated as Justifiable, Optimisation and Limitation. The optimised part is the ALARA/ALARP principle that exposure should be a low as reasonably achievable/practicable. Clear keeping it at home would breach this principle. The justification step is often forgotten, it this case it applies and would be breached. Keeping pokey sources for shits and giggles is no justification.
You probably wouldn’t approve of my WWII gauge collection. I have some stuff that’s pretty hot, but it’s all in a ventilated display and have made sure there’s nothing leaking contamination. Yes if there’s a fire there will be problems, and if I die someone will have to sell off the collection but there’s always going to be some risk involved in collecting this stuff. At least I know what I’m dealing with as opposed to most of the sellers I bought stuff from, almost everyone on eBay doesn’t realize they have radioactive gauges when they are selling them, just like the antique shop that sold this device. I also believe the radiation hormesis theory makes more sense than ALARA
I expect I’d find it fascinating. I have a friend who does the regular leak tests of the RAF’s historic planes. He gets to sit in the cockpit of a Spitfire and wipe test all the gauges. Quite a cool job. The later Spifires had so much radium on the dials the doserate in the seat exceeded 1mSv/h
I have some British gauges but the American stuff is the hottest. From my experience as long as the gauges aren’t broken they don’t have any issues leaking. Some of those turn banks are probably 70-90uCi of radium in each one.
I can see why the thought of someone taking them from you would be alarming. Its quite the collection. Whats the doserate outside the cabinet like?
A practical thought… clearly I’m not going to convince you to give them up… do you have a fireproof sign? The IAEA transport regs call for them. They are widely available and just a piece of engraved steel plate. In my experience fire crews are pretty good at spotting them. It would be an extra safeguard.
Here I'll add my opinion to the mix. I've worked with radium most of my career, have handled and moved Ci's of it using many improvised tools in sketchy situations, and therefore have had my fair share of adventures playing around with it professionally. I've developed mitigation systems, written standard operating procedures, and served as a hazard responder all with regard to systems utilizing Ra-226. Ra-226 is probably the last radioactive thing I'd ever choose keep in my house. The amount of money you need to invest in engineering controls, monitoring, and personnel all just for the sake of Rn mitigation is massive. This is a major reason why any industry involving working with radium is super expensive and cumbersome, it is such a massive pain for companies to manage it that I both could not afford nor would I want to deal with doing it for a hobby. Therefore, seeing people keeps tons of Radium in their house looks really dumb to me. I do think it's super cool, just very dumb.
Companies invest millions of dollars trying to control Rn and there are accidents and leaks constantly, even with He leak checked systems that are under constant surveillance, robust preventative maintenance schedules, and anything else you hope would be happening. The idea that some guy in their house is somehow doing it 'safely' is just silly. The correct reply in these cases, and the one I think you have? Is that you fully understand the risk and just don't care. Which hey fair enough, I also do irresponsible things because I don't care, but I personally don't get doing it for radium and that's my opinion.
I don’t keep any radium in my house. Not sure about Rn mitigation being expensive, a duct fan from the display leading outside and radon monitors seems to work pretty good for me.
I was there for that post but I'm curious as to how they found this, what the shop said, if they knew what they were buying, if there was other stuff, what's in the buckets, what the authorities said, all of that
Should have just kept it and not said anything. 130uCi isn’t that much. All you needed was an alpha detector to make sure there’s no contamination and you’d have been good.
Depending on where you measure it’s anywhere between 20-100uSv on the glass of the display. I’m in the US, we are legally allowed to own 100 radium gauges, some of these aren’t radium but most are.
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u/Bob--O--Rama Wiki Contributor 4d ago
They took the rest of your collection too?