r/ReZero • u/Historical-Weird7591 Shared Suffering with Subaru • 6h ago
💬Discussion Fuck it let's reheat some old arguments for shits and giggles
I want to see what arguments y'all would make for either side.
Some people will say that oh The twins, Roswaal, Annerose, and Beatrice would already part of the camp, but some will also note that Beatrice was barely part of the camp as was more also just associated by the fact she lived in the same house, or the fact the twins didn't really care for Emilia that much(they cared don't get me wrong) but weren't invested in her, with Ram only swearing loyalty in arc 4 after Emilia's development(and even then she's still a Roswaal dick rider first)
But at the end of the day the camp members still very mucb care about Emilia and her goals. By the time of arc 10, and she has there loyalty.
Some will say that Subaru bringing in some of the camp members was also due to Emilia's own actions, like helping in arc 2 leading him to help Rem at the end.
Ah I can't wait for the carnage in the comment section, just people tearing into each other.
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u/Outrageous-Sort-5742 Shared Suffering with Subaru 6h ago
It's basically the Subaru camp. Without him literally everyone else would be either dead or inactive.
Emilia would die by Elsa's hand(if Roswaal's book doesn't update from the lack of Subaru) or remain a doll without going through the trials(if the book of wisdom did update).
Even if we ignore that and skip straight into arc 2, Rem dies to Meili's dog, as do the children. Tainting Emilia's reputation further.
By arc three the main cast is long dead since Petelgeuse is still going after Emilia, then Puck nukes whoever survives. The Crusch camp dies off to the whale. Otto is dead.
By arc 4 Roswaal may or may not be dead and possessing Annerose after the witch cult attack. Garfiel is inactive. Beatrice is inactive or dead.
By arc 5 the Anastasia camp in all likelihood dies off since Subaru isn't there to coordinate the assault against the archbishops. Priscilla and Felt are the only ones likely to survive that mess since the former is pretty strong on her own and the latter has Reinhard. Even if Emilia somehow survived the previous arcs, she is likely to either die here or be forced into being Regulus' wife.
Arc 6 never happens.
And so on. Without Subaru not only is the Emilia camp defunct, but it never even gets off the ground.
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u/EpicTevan Newbie 5h ago edited 5h ago
Correct me if I’m wrong,
but wouldn’t Crusch’s camp never run into the White Whale, since it was Subaru who figured out its next appearance brought them to fight it?Also, Felt probably doesn’t get Reinhard, or even get discovered as a candidate, since Emilia arrives later, and she left for help on Subaru’s command. Reinhard was also there after encountering Subaru, so he wouldn’t save them in the loot house, and Felt also likely dies.
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u/Outrageous-Sort-5742 Shared Suffering with Subaru 5h ago
In multiple IF storylines, the Crusch camp dies off to the whale in a failed attempt. It would have probably just taken longer for them to find it, and the whale would have been the one with the element of surprise on its side.
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u/EpicTevan Newbie 5h ago
Thank you for correcting me
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u/Outrageous-Sort-5742 Shared Suffering with Subaru 5h ago
Saw the edit, yeah you're right. Felt is also dead in a world without Subaru. Every candidate is destined to die within less than three years of the plot's start if he's absent.
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u/anjansharma2411 Smol Emilia Took My Hand — I Froze (Socially) 5h ago
Most likely no gospel commands what they did and literally everything keeps going on like it had been 400 years before Subaru arrived
Except for events that aren't commanded by gospels like Crusch fighting the whale and being erased
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u/DemiFiendJoker Regulus Said I Was Violating His Rights 6h ago edited 6h ago
Its the Emilia camp but Subaru is like the biggest driver of events that effects her chances at the royal selection. The camp would have been wiped out several times over without him saving them and earning achievements for them at the same time
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u/nyuuee Regulus Called Me Extra Virgin 6h ago
It is Emilia camp. Who cares how and why people join it? The main thing is that Emilia camp can exist without Subaru while it cannot without Emilia.
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u/SarthakDesai Newbie 5h ago
I mean emilia would just die without subaru so the camp doesn't really exist then no? But we've seen subaru be able to have loyal members even when he is not supported by emilia.
I don't know why people even have this argument tbh and you guys are so pretentious about it too. Emilia has no chance because the story is like that. She's a hated person that was bound to die in the very first episode of the story, it was never gonna be a fair comparision against subaru
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u/nyuuee Regulus Called Me Extra Virgin 4h ago
It is the same as telling "Caesar made the Rome an Empire, so it is a Caesar Empire"
"Emilia" in the Emilia camp is not because Emilia is the MVP or something. It just cannot be anything else, it is called Emilia camp because anything else would simply not be the same camp.
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u/SarthakDesai Newbie 4h ago
The question was if it's basically the subaru camp. And it is. There are definitely people more loyal to subaru than emilia in the camp.
Of course the argument is redundant Because it doesn't really matter because subaru is loyal to emilia.
What makes somethin "basically" something else? When it's in all likeness to that thing? Probably yeah.
It's a question not about the nomenclature of the camp, it's a question about who holds the weight of it.
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u/nyuuee Regulus Called Me Extra Virgin 4h ago edited 4h ago
What is their goal? Make Emilia the queen, and serve her. That still doesn't make it Subaru camp, not even "basically."
They join Emilia Camp because they like Subaru and all, but that doesn't mean the goal of the camp is basically to help Subaru. No, they are not so stupid and dumb to make Emilia a queen just because Subaru wanted so. They have loyalty towards Emilia anyway, and are approving of her.
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u/SarthakDesai Newbie 4h ago
They all have their individual goals, none of them actually care about thw royal selection really tbh. Garfiel didn't give a shit, meili doesn't give a shit, rem doesn't give a shit, otto would rather drown himself in alcohol, petra couldn't give a shit, beatrice couldn't give a shit, frederica couldn't give a shit. Only emilia and roswaal are the ones that care about the royal selection truly, and ram by default due to roswaal.
They do eventually support emilia, but even then it's not "their" goal. It's like supporting a your best friend. That's not 'your' goal.
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u/nyuuee Regulus Called Me Extra Virgin 4h ago
Sigh, if that is what you think, then the same goes for Subaru. Sigh, they don't have any goals that would connect to Subaru, they just wanna be friends with him. Sigh.
Sigh, and then, they officially still have the goal to support Emilia and they actually do it. Sigh.
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u/nyuuee Regulus Called Me Extra Virgin 4h ago
I am talking about politics, not how the camp's internal relations works. Yes, Emilia will die, but I am ignoring that because this is not the point at all.
Subaru camp (without Emilia) can't participate in the Royal Selection, that's all that matters. This is how the name is supposed to tell.
I don't know why people even have this argument tbh and you guys are so pretentious about it too. Subaru can't enter Royal Selection by forming a camp. Emilia is the reason the camp exists, and without her it would cease to exist.
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u/SarthakDesai Newbie 4h ago
How are you ignoring the point lmao.
At this point it's just cope when it's not needed.
You can admit that emilia has qualities of winning people over when given the chance while also admitting that people wouldn't have given her the chance if not for subaru.
That's literally just how the story is. Talking about poilitcs doesn't matter at all either because if it did then she has even worse chances politcally because frankly no one would have supported a silver haired half elf politically besides roswaal on their own volition.
What If I tell you that the royal selection doesn't matter at all because frankly emilia always had the least chances politically, even less than felt when she first joined the selection.
Sure you can nitpick the meaning of the camp to your death, but that's still a game that won't be won by you because there's a lot more to nitpick about the way emilia's role in the story is.
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u/nyuuee Regulus Called Me Extra Virgin 4h ago
Sigh, I see no reason with entering this shit-hole.
What is the 'point' you oh so know better than me? "Subaru is the center so it is his camp" Hey there, did you know that everyone are working towards Emilia's goal despite their relationships and reasons?
I don't need to find any qualities that makes Emilia a reason to call the camp "Emilia Camp." Because all that's matters is a little stone that said Emilia is the candidate.
This level of dick-riding the main character is admirable at worst, and I can't help but tear up in my pleasant surprise. I know that you will not understand me with whatever brain you have in your head (not an insult btw), and can't help but feel empathy and a little bit of pity towards you.
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u/Historical-Weird7591 Shared Suffering with Subaru 6h ago
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u/anjansharma2411 Smol Emilia Took My Hand — I Froze (Socially) 5h ago
Bro's just enjoying whatever this is ig ðŸ˜
Tho it's obviously the Emilia camp and I'm quite surprised the other option has more votes
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u/Historical-Weird7591 Shared Suffering with Subaru 5h ago
It's the Emilia camp in name, current loyalty and feelings,and by sensible meanings, but a lot of people also call it the Subaru camp for obvious reasons such as the achievements and the fact most of them wouldn't be that loyal/alive to join to Emilia if it wasn't for his actions/looping.
Hell I remember when some people called it the Roswaal camp once pre Subaru arriving cause pretty everyone and everything revolved around him.
And yeah who doesn't love a bit of chaos and watching people tear at each other's throats over differing opinions.
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u/anjansharma2411 Smol Emilia Took My Hand — I Froze (Socially) 5h ago
Causality is what we're looking at?
Subaru is there cuz of Emilia
So by tracing cause and effect it's back to Emilia anyways
If it's Loyalty we're looking at it's to Emilia
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u/Historical-Weird7591 Shared Suffering with Subaru 5h ago
True true, but some people don't count Subaru falling in love with Emilia as reason to give what Subaru contributed to thr camp to Emilia herself.
It's also the same logic people used to say it was originally the Roswaal camp due to jom manipulating events to get Subaru attached to the camp.
It's a very narrow tight rope you have to walk.
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u/anjansharma2411 Smol Emilia Took My Hand — I Froze (Socially) 5h ago
We're living in a world where people mandella effect Emilia's achievements to someone else like she was erased by gluttony so I guess I should not be surprised that we've these takes too ig
Like it's genuinely ridiculous how common misremembering "Subaru cleared the sanc. trials" "Reinhard and Subaru beat Regulus" is
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u/Historical-Weird7591 Shared Suffering with Subaru 5h ago
We live in a crazy world.
Personally while I believe it is truly the Emilia camp, I'd say the contributions to actually making it a functional camp who truly respect Emilia is Subaru.
Emilia is integral to many parts of the camps future success after arc 4 and is the one to attract Subaru to the camp.
But the fact Subaru even stayed was due to him and his nature, not single other person would continue to do what Subaru did for Emilia no matter how nice she seemed, which includes actions like helping Rem, and such.
It is the Emilia camp cause they follow her and respect her enough to want her ti achieve her dreams, but if Subaru wasn't Subaru many of them would be individuals to indulged in their own issues to actually care, respect, or follow her truly.
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u/Sensitive-Giraffe-57 At This Point, ‘Who Is Rem?’ Is My Entire Personality 5h ago
I mean it's only because of Subaru that they won like many other times ofc so it makes sense people say that. Emilia does get carried by her camp members rather than herself tho.
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u/Normal_Ad_2360 Satella Likes to Tickle My Heart (Is This What Love Is?) 5h ago
IT is more like three factions depending on who they are most loyal to.
Emilia : Puck , Annerose , Ryuzus , Shylphy
SUbaru : Rem , Beatrice , Otto , Garfiel , Petra , MEili.
Roswaal : Ram , Frederica , Clind.
Arc 10 is the opposite is show a huge lack of loyality to Emilia from Subaru's faction when they sacrifice her and let her walk into a trap without warning so they have a chance of escape . During their escape they only create more problems to her.
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u/SarthakDesai Newbie 5h ago
The ryuzu one feels wrong though because it's not like they have a choice, she has control over their actions due to the trial while subaru relinquished his. But the original grandmas are definitely more connected to subaru.
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u/Normal_Ad_2360 Satella Likes to Tickle My Heart (Is This What Love Is?) 4h ago
They are also very conected to Roswaal too , SUbaru may have a way via Garfiel but Frederica is there too but he lost alot of influence with them .But they follow mostly Emilia because of her ability . Currently they are following hers orders .
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u/SarthakDesai Newbie 4h ago
Wait I don't think Frederica has control over the ryuzus. Only garfiel and emilia are currnetly apostles. Subaru was the apostly for a while but then he relinquished his ability when he rejected echidna. Frederica and roswaal never were one to begin with
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u/Sensitive-Giraffe-57 At This Point, ‘Who Is Rem?’ Is My Entire Personality 5h ago
Seriously? Lack of loyalty? Bro..they had no other choice than to send her.
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u/Normal_Ad_2360 Satella Likes to Tickle My Heart (Is This What Love Is?) 4h ago edited 4h ago
Not waiting for her and then escaping ? Not telling her about the danger so she can make an informed choice ? Why not send her with Garfiel so if they needed brute force ?
Then figthing Reinhard and making her an acomplice of a terrorist attack via the sandworns it is too much. They never cared about her safety in the first place and only gave more amunition to her enemies. They also failed in making any attmpet to rescue in more than two months.
It is an horrible repayment for how willing she is to risk herself to save members of her camp , risking everything to rescue SUbaru , figthing alone vs Gluttony to give time for Ram to save Rem , delaying the great rabbit to protect the villagers instead of running to safety on her own. SO leaving her behind when she did all of that is very unfair. How would Ram have reacted if Emilia say that saving Rem is impossible and they have to leave her behind in the healing room ?
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u/Sensitive-Giraffe-57 At This Point, ‘Who Is Rem?’ Is My Entire Personality 4h ago
They had to do that because they would be targeted next.
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u/Thick_Ordinary_5419 Newbie 5h ago
If you ask Subaru he will always say: "It's Emilia's camp not mine". Simple like that his loyalty and devotion make this debate kinda pointless. Some follow her because Subaru is there but in the end its HER camp.