I'm seeing red flags but struggling to break up - help

[u/Upstreamblues148]

I am considering ending my relationship but am wondering if things are as bad as I think they are, or if I am overreacting or overthinking.

I (30F) met my boyfriend (26M) through his sister. She was a relatively new friend before him & I met. For some background (important for context below), I'm religious - no judgment at all towards those who aren't though. All advice welcome.

When he and I met, I was instantly attracted to him physically and mentally. He was heavily involved in his church/ministry and everyone wanted to date him. He has a strong reputation as a serious believer, good friend, reliable family member, etc.

His sister especially wanted us to meet. I was hesitant and actually said multiple times that I wasn't interested. He was in his third year of getting his undergraduate degree (he was in the military for 3 years and started college later) for being a teacher and wanting to be a missionary (which is NOT what I want for my life). I work in finance for almost a decade so professionally things were 'off' to me. But I discovered he was already a homeowner at 25 with his sister (they own a home together), and I found that to be impressive. I'm also a homeowner and purchased close to his age, so I know how hard it is to accomplish.

So we meet naturally at an event, he asked for my number, and we went on a first date. One month into going out on dates, he asked me to become exclusive. I said yes.

First 2 months were heavenly. He pursued me well and respectfully. He was kind, thoughtful, considerate and sweet.

3rd month I started noticing less of a pursuit. He no longer intentionally planned dates and he wanted to meet spontaneously. I told him I have a hectic work schedule (extremely stressful/high pressure) and opened up about having an autoimmune disease, which means I need to prioritize rest and nutrition. Plus, the only time I can see friends/family is the weekend, so I'd like to know in advance when we can meet and what we're doing so I can plan accordingly. He said, "we've always been spontaneous, though!" and kept pushing me. We're nearing month 6 and he still pushes me with "well what do you want to do? Can you give me a list (I already did actually - we sat down and made one together 3 months ago) or text me what you want to do?" I told him I love when he initiates, and I've loved every date he has planned. That I trust his judgement and would be happy to do whatever he chooses. He said, "well you don't like to go out to eat" (which is true - because my autoimmunity gets flared easily through food), but I told him there are a million things we could do besides go out to eat. Also, I have a friend who knows about my autoimmune condition and she spent hours searching for restaurants we could go to - and we literally met a few months ago. He has never done the research.

We've eaten dinner at my place numerous times now. He has never once brought over groceries or staples. I don't see him behave this way at his own house, but at mine, he drinks multiple drinks and leaves some half full. One time, he said he was picking up dinner on the way to my house. When he arrived, it was only groceries for him which he asked to keep in my fridge until it was time for him to go home.

Anyways, here are the main "red flags" I'm noticing:

• On our 4th or 5th date, I still hadn't heard from him what his life plans are or what his hopes are for the future. I asked if he could have a perfect life in 5 yrs, what would that look like? He spoke about 15 minutes about missionary work and being martyred for the faith if necessary, and went on and on about Adoniram Judson. I thanked him for being honest - but said we're not compatible - that I'm a little bit older and ready to get married, have a family, and settle down in the same town/area where I purchased my home. His emotions came flooding out, he professed his feelings for me - "my heart is really towards you" - and basically told me this was just a feeling he had, but he's not actively pursing missionary work and he'd be happy being a teacher. Which wasn't true, he told me a few weeks after this he actually wants to be a pastor.
  • His pastor offered him a youth pastor position and he told me he's going to shut it down because "he doesn't need the extra money." But he recently accepted the position after he told me he also thought of turning it down because he wanted to consider a future of us being together and I said "please don't make decisions based on me; we're newly dating, and if you feel called to accept, I hope you would." This caused an argument and he blamed me for being disrespectful/rude for saying that.
• When we first started meeting up, he told me he was a "light charismatic" and he went to a "secretly charismatic church" meaning they don't show how charismatic they really are, but that he wasn't himself. 1.5 months into our relationship, he attended an overnight 2 week conference out of state where they spoke in tongues, casted out demons, stayed up until the wee hours of the morning "slaying in the spirt" etc. I told him very clearly on dates 1-2 I'm reformed, attend a PCA church and am highly skeptical of the gifts. He said he was just a "light charismatic" though. Later said he prays in tongues and wakes up in the middle of the night feeling demonic presences. My only response was a facial expression of "???"
• He called me an "elf" and a midget" - I am 5'1"
  • When I told him this was mean and didn't laugh, instead of saying sorry, he doubled down and added, "hey! it's not bad! At least I didn't say you look like a little kid :) that'd be far worse!" and kept laughing. When I said if he ever called me this again, I would end the relationship, he replied, "Are you serious?! I was joking!!! My family and I joke like this all the time!" I reiterated it wasn't ok and I would end things with him. That's when he said he was sorry and wouldn't joke like that anymore.
  • Since then, he has made comments like my clothes are so tiny it looks like it fits a 12 yr old, told me I'm so small he needs binoculars to see me, said I have a corporate laugh (like what does that even mean), and noted that I "made a weird facial expression - you look like an old person trying to sound hip" when he asked me what music I liked.
• He has pressured me to go to his family events or other things when I didn't want to or was completely exhausted, has worn me down emotionally multiple times, never accepts my "no" - it's always a debate or negotiation time. There's always a guilt trip.
  • His sister told me he always pressures her to go to things even when she doesn't want to, but when she tries to pursuade him, he's a firm "no"
• We have different standards of living - I told him I would like to have a home before we have children. He said we could raise three kids happily in my 2bed, 2bath condo of 1,200 SF. I told him but I wouldn't be happy... I'd like my kids to have extra room, have a good quality education, healthy food - these are things that really matter to me. He told me as long as bills are paid and there's food on the table I should be grateful.
• The topic of contraception came up. He said if we were having sex (we aren't - I'm a virgin and he had sex in a HS relationship - "born again virgin" since he was 21). He said he'd slip off the condom and started laughing. I did not laugh and said that's not funny - I was serious and staring at him. He said, "I was joking!!!! Come on, I wouldn't impregnate my wife against her will." Yet he kept laughing, and I felt a cold chill go down my spine.
• When we came back from a light jog, he pressured me for us both to take showers (separately of course). I told him no, it was already late let's just have dinner and say goodbye since I had to be up really early to prep for a work meeting the next day. He kept pressuring me until I gave in. While I was in my shower though, I felt a flash of fear hit my soul (?) I couldn't describe it to you - I just felt it and heard in my head the words "get out. Get out now." So I did. I got ready and my heart sank when I realized I forgot to lock 2 doors leading into my bathroom. The only one I did lock was the one he was standing right in front of when I got out. He was standing in front of my washer and dryer with his towel.
• I told him one on one dates are important to me, but whenever we have a free day to meet up, he wants to go to a worship night together with his friends, or says "my family wants to see me, let's go hang out with them," or "x and x would like that - or x and x live nearby, let's invite them." He hasn't asked me out on an actual date in months. Our last 2 dates I was the one who told him what I'd like to do. When I told him I'm not feeling pursued and I'd like him to initiate more, he said, "I'm not trying to get a 2nd or 3rd date anymore." And "send me a list of what you want to do."
  • Part of his bday gift to me was a picnic basket. He told me often he wanted to take me out for a beach picnic. I told him I'd love that and knew just the outfit I wanted to wear for it (it included me wearing a pretty top he got for me). That day never came.
  • He knew I had a list on my phone of date outfits and he still didn't / hasn't plan anything
• His car broke down 4 months ago. He's been driving a beat up car that's literally on its last leg for this duration - it's one of his grandparents' cars. It doesn't have AC. He had the option to buy his sister's car and he did but procrastinated buying it (or couldn't afford it?). Every time he drove to see me, he was driving it. He'd walk to my driver's seat as if he was going to drive MY CAR, and I laughed and said absolutely not, pop a squat in the passenger seat. Told him he wasn't on my insurance and I wasn't going to risk it. He mocked me saying insurance only covers the car not the driver. This has happened literally every single time we need to drive together somewhere. I refuse to drive in his grandparents' car because it's so old and has numerous issues. His last car was so old it blew up in flames (yes girl I'm serious)
• He knows how important finances are for me. I grew up in poverty and witnessed deeply traumatic things growing up with a single mom. I worked extremely hard through school and now have a high paying career. I am actually considering going back to grad school to make a career shift so that it gives me a better work-life balance, especially as I'd like to be a wife and mother one day. I told him if we were to get married, I'd be super worried about having children soon because he has never worked a career before (small jobs, but he has 0 professional experience). I said I'd be worried that I'd feel pressured to take on the financial burden for our family, and that I'd resent him for it. That we could end up having serious marital issues early on with a child because of lack of space and resources. I do not want to drain my savings or stay in my high pressure career.
  • His response was: "I make enough from the military" and essentially, he's going to milk the benefits and extend school for as long as possible to avoid being a teacher because "it's not really what I want to do and it doesn't pay well. You need to accept that if we're together, I'm going to be in school for 3-5 years and as a pastor, I might make very little money." I said, well what if you see your family is struggling, would you change careers? "No - I'm going to follow whatever I feel like is the Lord's will for my life. I'm not going to be a slave for my job."
• He came over my house one night. I made him dinner and then he pressured me to let him shower there again. I said, "but you don't even have clean clothes?" and he told me to give him something of mine to wear. I had an oversized t-shirt and pj pants I gave him. I was handing it over when I realized he wouldn't have clean underwear. I told him so, and he said, "lots of men don't wear undies with bottoms. I'll be fine." showered anyways, and then was pressing up against me trying to kiss me as I was cooking. Afterwards, he realized he forgot his phone in his car, so he wanted to go get it. My sandals were by the front door and he was about to put his foot in. I said, "hey! Please don't do that. Please wear your own shoes." He insisted his shoes were dirty and he'd be outside only for a few minutes, but I said "you're going home in them anyways." He was still sliding his foot through when I said, "Please!! Stop! Those are my favorite sandals and you're going to stretch them out. I'm serious - I'm actually really sad right now. Please stop." He started laughing and put his foot through. I again told him I was sad, told him to stop, and he said, "this isn't that serious!!!! I'll buy you a new pair if they stretch." I said, "it's not about new ones - I can't find new ones, these are one of a kind. Stop!" And he proceeded to put his other foot in my other sandal. He opened the door to leave wearing them and I grabbed him by the arm and said, "You need to stop! Take them off NOW!" and he did, but he complained the entire night "it wasn't serious."
• He shamed for me meeting my pastor one on one in a public coffee shop. He said this was "inappropriate - how do you not see that?! That's how affairs start!"
• He broke my trust --- he had a summer job. Told me he had a co-worker who was showing interest in him. He wanted to connect her and I, for me to invite her to my church. I said I'm not comfortable with that - you just told me she likes you. A week later, our mutual friends were going to host a get together. I wasn't sure if I was going. I was on FaceTime with him and his sister was right next to him. They were telling me the people they invited. Then my boyfriend goes, "Oh I also invited [his co-workers name - let's call her Julia] - [my name]'s arch nemesis" and he laughed. His sister didn't say anything. I said, "that was weird, I don't even know her."
  • Keep in mind he did not know I was going to this event until the day of
  • The day of the event, my boyfriend shows up, says hi to me, we barely talk, he sits next to me and talks the entire time with another man. I turn to my side and talk to other people.
  • When Julia arrives, my boyfriend immediately greets her (I know they have each others' phone numbers - he said they need for work) and he introduces her and I. I can tell they both seem a little nervous around each other. I am friendly with her then go back to talking to the people I was having a conversation with. My boyfriend proceeds to then stand next to her the ENTIRE rest of the time while I'm there, about 45 mins. Eventually I need to leave, him and I walk back to my car as he's helping me carry some things (we drove separately). He said he can tell something is wrong.
  • I am honest with him that I'm upset that he invited her. I said that wasn't appropriate - you knew what you were doing. He ends up saying they actually have known each other for the past 3 years and last year she made (word for word) "clear advances" toward him. I said how do you think that makes me feel? This is so incredibly hurtful. He said it's not a big deal - that he wanted to connect her with his sister (who is my good friend! Her and I were friend before him and I dated) and that he and Julia have no history.
  • I told him that's a problem - because if Julia becomes friends with his sister, she will be in my friend group moving forward. He kept insisting he did nothing wrong. I'm not proud of this but I raised my voice at him because I was so hurt and he just wasn't getting it.
  • I told him I was extremely hurt and disrespected - and needed some space. He proceeded to bombard me with texts and calls, disregarding my need for space. He eventually apologized about 3 days in but said he didn't want to text at all until we saw each other again. After the week, I was ready to break up with him when we both met in person. I was expecting an apology....... there was none. His stance was the same as before.
  • He made me cry over the phone when I told him a piece of my trust towards him has been broken and I don't know if I see a future together anymore. He kept me on the phone for 2 hours, me begging him to let me just go to sleep because I was exhausted. I said I was so unhappy in this relationship - that I don't deserve this, and that this is not the kind of relationship I want to be in. He never once apologized for making me cry. He actually told me to laugh and said we needed to end on good terms. I faked my way to pretending like I was fine to get off the call.
  • ***** Just last week, I couldn't take the feeling that he was lying to me about this Julia situation (it happened 1 month ago). While he was using the bathroom, I looked through his phone. He kept blaming the situation on me (you should've told me not to invite her, you should've told me you didn't want me to connect her with my sister, etc). Well - I saw on his phone that he was the one to text her the day after the bonfire (so he clearly knew where I stood w/ everything) and said, "Hey I'm so glad you came. Could I give my sister your number so you both can connect more?"
    • I didn't tell him what I found on his phone, but instead asked how did she and his sister get connected since I didn't see them talking at the bonfire. He stayed quiet. I asked, "Did they exchange info when you and I were away talking?" He said, "yeah I guess"
• I told him I miss seeing him one-on-one and spending time together. He told me he would come see me. Called me 1 hour before he was supposed to, to tell me some story about how he had to drop/add classes at the last minute and needed to study for the new class tomorrow. I told him I was sad to hear that - that I was looking forward to seeing him but understood. Yet.... while still on the phone, told me he just so happened to notice his mom's car at the beach (?????) and he knew they were all having pizza together, so he was going to stop and have dinner with them. And that he'd call me back in an hour. Which of course is no problem, but you have time for that and to call me.. did you actually need to study?
  • I made another attempt at connection by asking if he wanted to go for a walk. He said yes, called me an hr before to cancel.
  • He called me as I was leaving work and asked if I wanted to come see a play at his college. I said yes and took the exit on the highway. He then says, "actually... maybe you shouldn't come. You'd only be here for an hour or two, I don't think it's worth it." When I said that was rude, he said, "Oh I'm sorry! What I mean is that you already drive so far for work and I wouldn't want to make you come all this way"
  • He invited me to his friend's birthday this weekend. I said I was nervous about driving in the rain storm, he said he'd come get me. Calls 1 hr before he's supposed to get here to say "the timing just won't work out... sorry, it's best if you don't come."
  • I've noticed for the past 2 months he's trying to cut our time short. Wants to skip eating dinner at my place, when I went to visit him on his college campus we chatted for 30 mins and I watched him play basketball by himself basically; he wasn't interactive with me and we were supposed to go for a walk. But after basketball he said "maybe we should end the night here." I was an idiot and still pushed for the walk.
• I've spoken to my parents, pastor, counselor, and close mentors. All of them have said this man is immature and his lack of respect for boundaries is scary. But I think about the affectionate moments we have and how he has such a strong, great reputation to everyone who knows him. Sometimes I think I am painting him in a bad light or something. At the same time, I know it's not normal to be going back and forth.

It's been hard for me to break up with him despite this treatment because I do see the good qualities in him - he's chivalrous (opens every door, pays for every date, always drives to see me, is masculine, gets along with everyone, has a very composed demeanor, calm, etc), but I know the writing on the wall is so clear that this man has shown me again and again that he doesn't care about me anymore. At some point along the way he lost interest.

I could use some straight forward advice - even if that means criticizing me. I feel like I need a wig and a red nose for this clown behavior I've been displaying. Just looking for encouragement because I know I need to break up with him, but the past 3 times I've tried, I've given in when we talk in person. He knows I'm not happy and hasn't done anything to change that.

[u/pearlsandstilettos]

OP, you must engage with the comments or the post will be removed. I'm curious at a minimum why you are here on RPW specifically. It appears that you have written this more than once over time on several different subs. Is there something you are looking for here that you cannot get from the rest of Reddit?

[u/Jenneapolis]

Ok so this guy isn't the WORST I've seen, he just sounds immature and not yet ready for a relationship yet. And he is younger than you, and you are more financially secure in life, so it just doesn't seem like a fit. So time to call it. It hasn't been that long yet.

That being said, there are things you could do to improve for your next relationship. Really, this write up seems a lot like "me, me, me." Most of these things you write about are so trivial, this comes across as so nit picky to me. Now they are problems for you, so it's not a fit, and again he seems immature, but it also seems you are picking apart everything.

Also this thing about making a man initiate and plan all dates is bonkers. In the first few dates stage, yes, he should. But after a month or so once you are into an exclusive relationship, you need to contribute!! Men are not as good at planning as most women are. And if you can't eat out, you really should help plan.

With my husband, I plan 99% of our dates which we do on weekends. He works a lot, he says he wants to turn his brain off and spend time with me, and he can't make any more decisions, so I decide. Unless he really hates my idea which is rare, he goes with it and we have fun. It was like this when we were dating too. And it's FINE, it's great actually because I get to do the things I think are fun, he is happy doing whatever anyway, and he is happy that I am enjoying myself. So really women, please stop making your man do ALL the mental work of dating. Being a RPW doesn't mean making him do everything.

I am telling you this not to say stay with him and recover it, I am saying you also have work to do on yourself with the next guy or I can see these sort of complaints becoming a pattern for you.

[u/Upstreamblues148 → u/Jenneapolis]

I appreciate your take. I’ve spent much of the relationship with your frame of thinking though and have been repeatedly disappointed. I’ve communicated, over communicated, and reached a point of acceptance hoping for a turning point to no resolve. 

It’s great that this dynamic works for you & your husband, but with my boyfriend and I, the roles are reversed. I work an extremely demanding, high pressure job with long hours. He on the other hand makes comments about how he thinks it’s funny he can go to bed at 2am on a Wednesday and have 1 class at noon the next day. Had 2 weeks to write a paper and started it at 10pm the day it was due at midnight. Talks about how “easy” and “unserious” his English major is. I saw a homework assignment of his last week and was shocked — it was at a middle school level. I’ve had harder assignments in AP English back in high school. Spends free time going to the gym and seeing friends and being at church doing countless ministry related things — and then judges others for not being as devoted to the faith as he is. 

I even gave him a date idea recently, to go the museum. His response? “Not my favorite.” At this point he’s telling me he just doesn’t care. Even with my schedule, I’ve made time for him. Was willing to visit him on his college campus after a 12 hr workday with a 1.5 hr commute each way. We were on the phone and he knew I took the exit just to tell me a few minutes later “maybe it’s best you don’t actually come. We’d only see each other for an hour or two and it wouldn’t be worth it.” Same man who 1 month into the relationship came to visit me for 45 minutes after I was back from a 3 day trip. 

[u/Jenneapolis → u/Upstreamblues148]

That’s fair, then again this sounds like not the match for you. I’m wondering why you posted to red pill women and what you were hoping to get out of this post? If you know that it’s not working and you really don’t want to change anything, and you are just looking for validation it’s ok to leave him, this may not be the best place. We are really focused on self improvement and if this is just a bad match, then you know what to do.

[u/Bimb0bratz]

You wrote an essay of red flags. You already have your answer. No one else can help you break up with him. You know what you need to do.

[u/Upstreamblues148 → u/Bimb0bratz]

It’s true. It’s just been hard and I think the deeper reason why is because I got into the dating scene late around 28. I was open to love before and was in the right places at the right time, but organically it just never happened.

I keep thinking about how trash the dating market is and how great things were in the beginning of when we met. I want to keep believing the person I began to see a future with is still him — but I know deep down I need to move on.

I’m also religious so have remained a virgin, but he’s the first and only man I’ve been this physical with — which has deepened my attachment despite the bad behavior. I know it’s dumb and I feel naive to feel this way given my age but it’s the truth.

[u/Bimb0bratz → u/Upstreamblues148]

Also I want to put you on some game here, most men fake emotional compatibility just to get in your pants. Once they got what they wanted, they act horrible to get you to break up with them so they don’t feel bad about it.

[u/Upstreamblues148 → u/Bimb0bratz]

Oh that’s a fact I’m aware of!! I’m still a virgin, the farthest we’ve gone is making out & him feeling me up over clothes. To be attached over this is ridiculous though given people sleep together the same night they meet. I’m religious though so even making out is looked down upon. He’s not a virgin though — was in a sexually actively relationship with his hs girlfriend but then at 21 stopped having sex since he was “born again.” 

[u/Bimb0bratz → u/Upstreamblues148]

Don’t stay with a man just bc you lost your virginity to him. I think there’s some religious guilt here. If you’re Catholic go to confession if you feel like you’ve sinned. If you’re not then repent what you feel you need to.

[u/Professional_Bat8585 → u/Upstreamblues148]

The dating market isn’t that trash, you’re kinda bad at dating. You have no room in your life for a man. Too many stipulations. 

Not to mention you’re searching for someone religious, and every religious person I know is either an airhead, a manic faker, or a smart person that lobotomized themselves.

[u/Upstreamblues148 → u/Professional_Bat8585]

I…. have no words lol

I’m sorry to hear about your experience with religious people though. Several give us all a bad rep but you’re entitled to your beliefs. 

[u/purple_popsicles]

In your pros you say “he gets along with everyone” besides you girl…

[u/Upstreamblues148 → u/purple_popsicles]

Okay this made me laugh a little! True.

[u/Bounce_Bounce_Betty]

I gave up reading this about a fifth of the way through when I seen how long the thing is.

The gist of your complaint is this….I hate everything about my boyfriend….

If you still need to prove this to yourself then try writing down what you like about him and see if you can match the length of what you hate about him. I have a feeling you won’t be able to! 

You walk about red flags. From what I read  I don't see red flags. You just don’t actually like him. 

You say you want a marriage and settle down with kids. Do yourself a favour and think of your ovaries! Dump him and move on to someone you want to be with!

[u/Upstreamblues148 → u/Bounce_Bounce_Betty]

Oop — yeah, definitely could not write as long of a list of the things I love about him. 

I do think he has some great characteristics, but it’s been extremely difficult to mentally compartmentalize how he was in the beginning vs now. I know I need to cut things off. I’ve told him on 3 separate occasions now that I’ve felt like our relationship is slipping and that I want us to work through it… but instead of going on a date last weekend which I gave him the idea for, his friends from out of state visited last minute. I drove an hour to join them at his church for a worship night. He never once apologized for switching up our plans.. never said “I’m sorry we didn’t get to do our date, I know how much you’ve been wanting to spend more 1 on 1 time together. How can I make it up to you? Or how about we do x next weekend?” I’ve been feeling his distance and trying to become more accommodating - realizing that if I don’t plan something, he immediately fills it with friends or family and asks me to join as a last minute option.  Edit to add: he did, about 20 minutes before worship ended, whisper and asked me if I wanted to step out for us to go on a walk and talk a little bit. I said no - there was a rain storm happening. I felt like this was a “reaching out” of sorts to repair, he could tell I was a little distant… but it didn’t matter. 

He knows - he just doesn’t care. And I am struggling to believe that. I think the main emotion I am feeling is rejection. 

[u/Technical_Cupcake597]

Do you LOVE every best-selling book or movie? Because I don’t. Do you LOVE every restaurant or dish that your friends or commenters online say is TO DIE FOR? I’m OBSESSED with fountain pens and stickers, aren’t you? Probably not. And that’s OK! You don’t have to. No one is going to chase you down the street saying “shop at my store!” if you don’t like the clothes they sell there.

But if they are red flags for YOU, they are red flags. It makes absolutely no difference what his friends, colleagues, whoever think. It is YOUR choice and YOUR life. You don’t HAVE to choose him just because everyone else does. He can be a GREAT guy and still not be YOUR guy. You see?

[u/Deliaallmylife]

I love him but...

[u/Upstreamblues148 → u/Deliaallmylife]

Valid - thank you for sharing, needed to read this. 

[u/pillowpalaces]

This is too heavy and complicated. Just dump him if it's too much for ya

[u/MozuF40]

This dude only does things that are convenient for him. Never goes out of his way for you. You think he's gonna help raise kids???? His chivalry that you mentioned in a comment is bare minimum, nothing special and very easy for men to fake as a performance. The condom thing is wild. He disrespects you. You like him on paper but if he truly was committed to the good things of your faith, he wouldn't be treating you this way.

Stop chasing characteristics and resumes and start looking at people for who they are and how they treat you and make you feel. He's very controlling. I encourage you to watch the documentary "the pastor's wife". Being religious and devout doesn't automatically mean good person.

[u/Repulsive_Research_1]

This guy is bad news… sounds like my close friend’s ex husband who dragged on the divorce proceedings only to play mind games of torment. They think they can do no wrong and have good intentions, but in reality they’re ravenous snakes who never want to be accountable. Run fast. Run hard. Run now.

[u/NationalMouse]

Girl just leave while you still have your dignity in tact. It sounds like he just says what you want to hear so he can use you as a placeholder until he finds someone else to move on to. Leave him now. Make a graceful exit. Your pastor and friends are all right.

[u/Upstreamblues148 → u/NationalMouse]

I have a feeling you’re 100% correct. Will be an enormous embarrassment to continue to be strung along by him. I even told him recently, “as I’ve expressed to you before, I’m feeling like an afterthought in your life. I care about our relationship which is why I want us to work this out — but you need to meet me there. I feel like you don’t even like me anymore. If you feel like your heart isn’t in this, please tell me and we can go our separate ways. Do you want to break up?” Honestly I feel gross and pathetic writing that out, but yes I’ve reached a point where I need to ask him how he feels. He didn’t say anything except  for “if I wanted to break up with you by now, I would’ve. But I’m still here.” No confirmation of anything.

I teared up a little and mentioned I still think about the good memories we shared, and that I’d be sad to lose him if we broke up. He looked at me some empathy, but no other emotion, and rested his hand on my leg before saying, “if you don’t see a life in ministry, that’s okay. I’m not going to force that on you. But if that’s the case, then I agree we should break up.” No mention of his love for me…. How he feels.. that he cares about the things I’m passionate about or the future goals I have.. nothing. Just ministry which only relates to him. Immediately felt like I was just a person to fill a role as a pastors wife — like he doesn’t see me as an individual. 

[u/NationalMouse → u/Upstreamblues148]

I think you’re hanging on too much to the idea of him and not who he actually is as a person and how he treats you. So he gives you affection and he’s a nice, good-looking guy - that’s it. There’s so many men who can fulfill those needs so it’s a very low bar. The rest of his character speaks to how flawed he is as a person and that’s not something for you to fix. You can be “the one who got away” to him by leaving now and opening yourself up to dating a man who treats you 100x better (and has a real job). But I would never stay with someone who made me so unhappy. Stop asking him how he feels about you, he’s already shown you, and just tell him you need some space to rethink the relationship and he need not call you anymore. Then take a small trip out of town or whatever for the weekend and block his number. Take 30 days before you unblock him (do not reach out to him) and try to start dating again. You won’t regret it and I’m sure you’ll find someone better.

[u/Guardoffreedom]

Remember the Plot OP! You want kids and marriage. If yall ain’t moving into that direction and goal then yall both wasting time. Yes yall are attached, attracted to one another but that doesn’t mean yall would be good for marriage and kids.

Ultimately you need to bring this relationship in prayer to God. It does help to have opinions from family and friends but only God truly knows whether this will work out well.

[u/ResidentEnergy5263]

You and he have different life goals, you are unhappy in this relationship, and he is immature in his uncertainty over plans and finances. He is also canceling a lot and doesn't seem to value you. You have tried to be honest and work with him many times but you guys are in very different places. You need to stick to your guns and your goals and end this and move on to find someone in line with your goals and values and who treats you right.

[u/Sugarypapaya]

Girl, trust your gut. You just don’t really like him and he’s not that fun. I think you already know. Date other people and keep your options open. It’s not like your married. A women’s intuition knows and there’s too many weird feelings. You’ll resent him over time. You sound really cool though, give other people a chance to meet you.

[u/Thistlewhistler]

The bigger question is why have you not left already?

I’m not saying that to be glib, it’s a really important question.

Understanding what holds you in a bad relationship is absolutely essential.

I’ve read your list of reasons which are just superficial actions he’s displaying but this man is not displaying the traits that you want. You’re confusing performance for character.

So why is it so hard for you to take action, knowing and seeing all you have?

I suspect that the kernel of the problem might be in this line

this man has shown me again and again that he doesn't care about me anymore. At some point along the way he lost interest.

Is it that the rejection is too painful, or is it that you feel you should be able to do something to turn it around? Is it about control? Abandonment? Dig in here, because whatever is going on is holding you captive.

Personally I don’t think he’s lost interest. I think he’s systematically testing your boundaries and you’re showing him over and over that your boundaries don’t matter.

You’ve told him that you want more effort with dates - ignored. But you didn’t leave

You told him you would end the relationship if he continued to tease you about your size, - he continues to tease you. But you didn’t leave

You begged this man not to ruin your sandals (I feel that one hard) and he did it anyway, fully in the knowledge that it mattered greatly to you. He revelled in your upset. But you haven’t left

I don’t think he’s lost interest in you - I think he’s fascinated by you.

While I was in my shower though, I felt a flash of fear hit my soul (?) I couldn't describe it to you - I just felt it and heard in my head the words "get out. Get out now."

When this happens, you never ignore it. That’s your intuition breaking through. You acted on that moment in the shower, and it sounds very likely that you narrowly avoided being raped. If he had forced sexual contact would you have left then. Or would this be another incident on this list?

He was wearing your clothes, without underwear, and pressing against you (which is forcing sexual contact). And you didn’t leave.

He’s resting the waters to see how much he can push you away and ignore you (you come back), whether you’ll tolerate him sleeping around in the future (Julia is pulling you instead of making you leave)

But you haven’t left.

You’re consulting friends, family, parents, pastor, the whole entire internet ….

I have the chills reading this and I’m deeply afraid for you that you’re one of the women who never leaves, and whose body is never found.

[u/Upstreamblues148 → u/Thistlewhistler]

Also, you made an excellent point — why am I still around? Several people in my life have been asking me the same thing.

I would say it’s a mix of:

•  I have an idealized view that was formed during the first 2 months that make me want recreate what we had.

• 100% have abandonment issues. My dad passed away when I was young and although we said goodbye, it was a tragic loss. My mom became an even more emotionally and physically distant parent after this. Lots of neglect and at times physical abuse occurred, and I was always trying to please her, make her happy, or try to gain more love. She was not physically affectionate but as a child I felt so alone with no other family around except for her that I was desperate for physical touch - so always wanted to hold her hand, give her a hug, ask her if she was okay. I knew something was wrong when I was 7, my dad had just passed, and I asked my teacher if I could have a hug. I’ll never forget the look of deep sadness in her eyes and she picked me up to sit on her lap. Lots of parentification happened. I’ve been in therapy since I was 21 for this. I have a hard time saying bye to him at the end of our dates and it’s embarrassing. I am basically begging him not to go. I recognize the patterns but don’t know how to stop. Therapy for the past few years with my new therapist isn’t working. First one was amazing and she changed my life in many ways but left the practice. Don’t mean to trauma dump though, just that your comment made me think deeply. 

[u/Thistlewhistler → u/Upstreamblues148]

I’m so sorry. You’ve been through so much. I don’t think we ever get over losing our parents and seeing a parent’s sadness and vulnerability at a young age shakes foundations.

[u/Upstreamblues148 → u/Thistlewhistler]

Thank you. Unfortunately that's not even half of my story as there are several other factors involved that I won't get into. I have extreme trust issues but he's also the first man who I opened up to. It's been hard to let go of him but I know I should. It's as if a part of me doesn't want to believe his behavior is "that bad." I've been telling myself no man, no relationship is perfect - that my old tendencies to jump ship immediately at a red flag isn't healthy - but honestly, maybe it is.

[u/Upstreamblues148 → u/Thistlewhistler]

Your comment made me gasp. I would hope he’s not the dangerous type — for the most part, he has shown  a lot of control and discipline when it comes to maintaining physical/sexual boundaries so we don’t get carried away while making out. He’s also good about leaving early so we have enough time to do our nighttime routines, etc. so I do believe his heart is in the right place despite him crossing boundaries like wearing my shoe, not getting out of my car when I asked him to the next we argued about the Julia situation — but it’s also true that the shower incident and condom “joke” made me feel scared and like he will not respect my bodily autonomy in the future. Still, I see and feel your heart through your comment and appreciate it. It’s actually the comment that has been replaying in my mind since I read it last night. It felt like a wake up call. 

What do you mean by he seems fascinated by me? Do you mean in the sense that he keeps mistreating me and is shocked I’m still around? My mom said he has no respect for me, and the longer I stay, the bolder he’s going to get with his comments and behavior. I think he actually thinks I’m stupid or must have crazy low self esteem / be desperate because women over 30 in the church who remain single & childless are unfortunately looked down upon and/or pitied. Can’t let myself be that person though. 

[u/Jenneapolis → u/Thistlewhistler]

Ok this is pretty dramatic... I was with your in the first half, but this guy doesn't seem dangerous, just young, dumb, and full of (you know what).

[u/iamgirlbot]

Your mind, your body, and your heart already know he is not a good fit for you. The kindest thing you can do for you both is to break it off.

[u/serlingot]

does he like little people or is he just trying to make u feel small??? both are awful. girl wake up, I don't know him mentally of physically, so if it serves you, read what you wrote without him in mind and see for urself what kind of person u just described I'd leave his ass, you're mature for his immature self and he's just playing around. just as u can't paint a dirty wall, the good things don't cover the bad

plus the fact that his no means "no" and other people's no mean "convince/persuade me" just makes me think he's egocentric and thinks he's superior or better than others...

you WILL find someone, he isn't that person

[u/Rugby-Angel9525]

"He wore me down multiple times"

Girl it is time to ghost him

[u/AutoModerator]

Title: I'm seeing red flags but struggling to break up - help

Author Upstreamblues148

Full text: I am considering ending my relationship but am wondering if things are as bad as I think they are, or if I am overreacting or overthinking.

I (30F) met my boyfriend (26M) through his sister. She was a relatively new friend before him & I met. For some background (important for context below), I'm religious - no judgment at all towards those who aren't though. All advice welcome.

When he and I met, I was instantly attracted to him physically and mentally (still am, he's insanely good looking and I hate that we have great chemistry physically). He was heavily involved in his church/ministry and everyone wanted to date him. He has a strong reputation as a serious believer, good friend, reliable family member, etc.

His sister especially wanted us to meet. I was hesitant and actually said multiple times that I wasn't interested. He was in his third year of getting his undergraduate degree (he was in the military for 3 years and started college later) for being a teacher and wanting to be a missionary (which is NOT what I want for my life). I work in finance for almost a decade so professionally things were 'off' to me. But I discovered he was already a homeowner at 25 with his sister (they own a home together), and I found that to be impressive. I'm also a homeowner and purchased close to his age, so I know how hard it is to accomplish.

So we meet naturally at an event, he asked for my number, and we went on a first date. One month into going out on dates, he asked me to become exclusive. I said yes.

First 2 months were heavenly. He pursued me well and respectfully. He was kind, thoughtful, considerate and sweet.

3rd month I started noticing less of a pursuit. He no longer intentionally planned dates and he wanted to meet spontaneously. I told him I have a hectic work schedule (extremely stressful/high pressure) and opened up about having an autoimmune disease, which means I need to prioritize rest and nutrition. Plus, the only time I can see friends/family is the weekend, so I'd like to know in advance when we can meet and what we're doing so I can plan accordingly. He said, "we've always been spontaneous, though!" and kept pushing me. We're nearing month 6 and he still pushes me with "well what do you want to do? Can you give me a list (I already did actually - we sat down and made one together 3 months ago) or text me what you want to do?" I told him I love when he initiates, and I've loved every date he has planned. That I trust his judgement and would be happy to do whatever he chooses. He said, "well you don't like to go out to eat" (which is true - because my autoimmunity gets flared easily through food), but I told him there are a million things we could do besides go out to eat. Also, I have a friend who knows about my autoimmune condition and she spent hours searching for restaurants we could go to - and we literally met a few months ago. He has never done the research.

We've eaten dinner at my place numerous times now. He has never once brought over groceries or staples. I don't see him behave this way at his own house, but at mine, he drinks multiple drinks and leaves some half full. One time, he said he was picking up dinner on the way to my house. When he arrived, it was only groceries for him which he asked to keep in my fridge until it was time for him to go home.

Anyways, here are the main "red flags" I'm noticing:

• On our 4th or 5th date, I still hadn't heard from him what his life plans are or what his hopes are for the future. I asked if he could have a perfect life in 5 yrs, what would that look like? He spoke about 15 minutes about missionary work and being martyred for the faith if necessary, and went on and on about Adoniram Judson. I thanked him for being honest - but said we're not compatible - that I'm a little bit older and ready to get married, have a family, and settle down in the same town/area where I purchased my home. His emotions came flooding out, he professed his feelings for me - "my heart is really towards you" - and basically told me this was just a feeling he had, but he's not actively pursing missionary work and he'd be happy being a teacher. Which wasn't true, he told me a few weeks after this he actually wants to be a pastor.

  • His pastor offered him a youth pastor position and he told me he's going to shut it down because "he doesn't need the extra money." But he recently accepted the position after he told me he also thought of turning it down because he wanted to consider a future of us being together and I said "please don't make decisions based on me; we're newly dating, and if you feel called to accept, I hope you would." This caused an argument and he blamed me for being disrespectful/rude for saying that.

• When we first started meeting up, he told me he was a "light charismatic" and he went to a "secretly charismatic church" meaning they don't show how charismatic they really are, but that he wasn't himself. 1.5 months into our relationship, he attended an overnight 2 week conference out of state where they spoke in tongues, casted out demons, stayed up until the wee hours of the morning "slaying in the spirt" etc. I told him very clearly on dates 1-2 I'm reformed, attend a PCA church and am highly skeptical of the gifts. He said he was just a "light charismatic" though. Later said he prays in tongues and wakes up in the middle of the night feeling demonic presences. My only response was a facial expression of "???"

• He called me an "elf" and a midget" - I am 5'1"

  • When I told him this was mean and didn't laugh, instead of saying sorry, he doubled down and added, "hey! it's not bad! At least I didn't say you look like a little kid :) that'd be far worse!" and kept laughing. When I said if he ever called me this again, I would end the relationship, he replied, "Are you serious?! I was joking!!! My family and I joke like this all the time!" I reiterated it wasn't ok and I would end things with him. That's when he said he was sorry and wouldn't joke like that anymore.
  • Since then, he has made comments like my clothes are so tiny it looks like it fits a 12 yr old, told me I'm so small he needs binoculars to see me, said I have a corporate laugh (like what does that even mean), and noted that I "made a weird facial expression - you look like an old person trying to sound hip" when he asked me what music I liked.

• He has pressured me to go to his family events or other things when I didn't want to or was completely exhausted, has worn me down emotionally multiple times, never accepts my "no" - it's always a debate or negotiation time. There's always a guilt trip.

  • His sister told me he always pressures her to go to things even when she doesn't want to, but when she tries to pursuade him, he's a firm "no"

• We have different standards of living - I told him I would like to have a home before we have children. He said we could raise three kids happily in my 2bed, 2bath condo of 1,200 SF. I told him but I wouldn't be happy... I'd like my kids to have extra room, have a good quality education, healthy food - these are things that really matter to me. He told me as long as bills are paid and there's food on the table I should be grateful.

• The topic of contraception came up. He said if we were having sex (we aren't - I'm a virgin and he had sex in a HS relationship - "born again virgin" since he was 21). He said he'd slip off the condom and started laughing. I did not laugh and said that's not funny - I was serious and staring at him. He said, "I was joking!!!! Come on, I wouldn't impregnate my wife against her will." Yet he kept laughing, and I felt a cold chill go down my spine.

• When we came back from a light jog, he pressured me for us both to take showers (separately of course). I told him no, it was already late let's just have dinner and say goodbye since I had to be up really early to prep for a work meeting the next day. He kept pressuring me until I gave in. While I was in my shower though, I felt a flash of fear hit my soul (?) I couldn't describe it to you - I just felt it and heard in my head the words "get out. Get out now." So I did. I got ready and my heart sank when I realized I forgot to lock 2 doors leading into my bathroom. The only one I did lock was the one he was standing right in front of when I got out. He was standing in front of my washer and dryer with his towel.

• I told him one on one dates are important to me, but whenever we have a free day to meet up, he wants to go to a worship night together with his friends, or says "my family wants to see me, let's go hang out with them," or "x and x would like that - or x and x live nearby, let's invite them." He hasn't asked me out on an actual date in months. Our last 2 dates I was the one who told him what I'd like to do. When I told him I'm not feeling pursued and I'd like him to initiate more, he said, "I'm not trying to get a 2nd or 3rd date anymore." And "send me a list of what you want to do."

  • Part of his bday gift to me was a picnic basket. He told me often he wanted to take me out for a beach picnic. I told him I'd love that and knew just the outfit I wanted to wear for it (it included me wearing a pretty top he got for me). That day never came.
  • He knew I had a list on my phone of date outfits and he still didn't / hasn't plan anything

• His car broke down 4 months ago. He's been driving a beat up car that's literally on its last leg for this duration - it's one of his grandparents' cars. It doesn't have AC. He had the option to buy his sister's car and he did but procrastinated buying it (or couldn't afford it?). Every time he drove to see me, he was driving it. He'd walk to my driver's seat as if he was

[u/AutoModerator]

Thank you for posting to RPW. Here are a couple reminders:

• If you are seeking relationship advice. Make sure you are answering the guidelines for asking for advice on the rules page. Include any relevant context regarding religion, culture, living arrangements/LDRs, or other information that will help commenters.

• Do not delete your post once you have your answers. Others may have the same question!

• You must participate in your own post. If you put up a post and disappear, it will be removed.

• We are not here for non-participants to study us. If you are writing a paper or just curious, read our sidebar and wiki and old posts.

• Men are not allowed to ask questions and generally discouraged from participating unless they are older, partnered and have Red Pill experience.

• Within the last year, RedPillWomen has had over half a dozen 'Banned from 'x' subreddit' post for commenting/subscribing to RPW. Moving forwards, the mods will remove these types of posts: 1, 2, 3, 4. We recommend you make a RPW specific account.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[u/TheGreatRandomia]

we could raise three kids happily in my 2bed, 2bath condo of 1,200 SF

In his defence, parents can raise kids in condos (freeholds in the UK). That is how most of the developed world raises its kids, after all. However, what matters is whether the both of you are comfortable raising them. And from reading this, it seems the answer is no.

My family and I joke like this all the time!

Then he should restrict such jokes to his family and not you. When I was to meet my (now) husband's extended family, he sent an email to all of the uncles/aunts outlining expectations. Quoting:

I'm bringing a girl I'm interested in to our upcoming family reunion. I'd like you to vet her, as she has been told to vet you. Do not treat her as you treat me. To make things blunt, no discriminatory jokes about sectarian or national origin. She means a lot to me. A lot more than most of you do. If I hear any comments to that are anything less than the parliamentary behaviour I know each and every one of you on this Bcc are capable of, I will not talk to you any further. As you know, I do not make empty threats. Thank you and I look forward to introducing you to her and vice versa.

Only one aunt decided to test his resolve on this, and he has not talked to her in 9 years. I know this, because she frequently sends me texts complaining about it -- the most recent came in 13 minutes ago. My father-in-law, when I meet him, maintains she's insane and that I need not be bothered with her, as there are plenty of others who don't ignore directives like she did.

My in-laws observe Islam, to one extent or another; hubby and I do not. This particular aunt is the most outwardly religious and sees her role as that of the Da'wah (Christian missionary equivalent) of the family.

I didn't mind her lecturing me, and I don't think hubby did, other than that she had acknowledged she'd received the email, agreed to abide by it, and broke her word. He says that if he hadn't carried out his directive in the email, he wouldn't have been taken seriously going forward (apparently, this is more important to him than harmony with this particular person).

I'm not happy and hasn't done anything to change that.

It doesn't matter what your mentors think, only you. The fact that you chose to end your post with this indicates you are not ok with this.

Humans deserve to be happy. You are human. Hence, if you're not happy, you need to have a serious talk with him about how his behaviour is not making you happy. Like my husband did in his note, adumbrate the consequences of not complying with your desires. And, like hubby, stick to them.

[u/negasonicwarhead_13]

The midget thing is kinda funny and not a big deal.

But nearly everything else- he doesn't respect your boundaries and he's highly immature. Stop this foolishness and cut yourself loose. You've got so many damn flags, it looks like a fucking racetrack.

[u/streamconscious-ness]

I'm also Reformed (but not PCA). And I read almost all of your (many! he's exhausting) red flags. He's not able to give you the emotional connection you're looking for, but I wonder how many men his age really could, yet that's something you're looking for now. You'll have a difficult time figuring out where to worship with the differences between Reformed and charismatic. One of you will compromise and if you believe in biblical submission it'll be you. Even if you don't believe in submission, I expect that's a decision that won't go your way. If he pursues the pastorate or missionary work you won't convince him not to. But last, as a woman who volunteered (eyes wide open) to marry a man who I knew wasn't God's choice for me and who divorced me 7 years later (I see it as God releasing me and I've happily stayed single 21 years), I urge you to consider if this man is God's plan for you (Jeremiah 29:11, today's verse of the day, You Bible app). It may sound trite to some, but it is clear to those of us who see how the choice.we knew wasn't God's will didn't work out for us.