r/SipsTea • • 6h ago

Chugging tea Peaceful protests in France today

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u/Quinnvannice 1h ago

60% of France’s GDP is government spending. It is nearly economically impossible to tax yourself out of a deficit with that ratio.

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u/MeganDryer 1h ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue

France taxes 30% of GDP. "60% of France’s GDP is government spending" [citation needed]

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u/Quinnvannice 1h ago

It’s official eu data and can be found on eurostat. https://tradingeconomics.com/france/government-spending-to-gdp

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u/MeganDryer 1h ago

This is a separate claim. Transfers, such as pensions, do not constitute GDP. It only counts when the government directly purchase a good or service, otherwise it's double counting. So this citation does not substantiate the first claim.

Social Security taxes are, in general, an entirely separate budget, and shouldn't be talked about for either side of the equation.

30% GDP in taxes

45% with social contributions

51% total government revenues

6% deficit

That's your 57%.

Transfers are about 24% of GDP, which puts the government portion of the economy at about 33% which is pretty much in line with most countries.

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u/Quinnvannice 1h ago

I don’t understand your point, it still shows that the ratio of government spending to GDP is very, very high. It just means it’s more because pensions than other types of government spending. It is unrealistic for France to tax themselves out of this deficit.

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u/MeganDryer 1h ago

It's entirely easy and realistic to solve. The cohort receiving the vast majority of the benefit is the same cohort with the vast majority of the wealth.

By age 70 the average French household has about 500k in wealth and receives 20k a year from their pension. So, they literally have enough money as a class to fund their own pensions for 25 years (not suggesting that we literally tax 100% of their wealth to fund their pensions).

The only reason they don't is because they are an enormously political powerful voting block since... they have all that wealth.

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u/Quinnvannice 57m ago

Oh, I think we agree. You have to cut spending if the form of pension reform. I thought u were saying spending didn’t need to change and that France just needs to tax themselves rich more.

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u/Flexlex724 17m ago

I think he's saying tax the spending they are already doing. So collect more taxes on the governments own money it's handing out

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u/cavershamox 15m ago

What? pension spending is the same as the government financing a bridge or whatever

The government is purchasing the end purchases of pensioners

That money created to pay pensions still has to be taxed to remove the equivalent consumption power from the private sector

You may as well argue the salaries of government workers are just transfers too

If you excluded pension taxation from ever country on the same basis France would still be an outlier in terms of government spending