r/SipsTea • u/Ubetcha1020 • 21h ago
Wait a damn minute! Why not build data centers on cleaned up Superfund sites, cheap land & no one lives nearby
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u/HeavyDutyForks 21h ago
It's funny you think no one lives near these disasters. Most of the superfund sites with nearby water access are legacy DOD nuclear facilities. Highly contaminated and surrounded by towns that use to be employed by them and high cancer rates
But don't worry, the government did a study and those concerningly high cancer rates had nothing to do with weapons production and super lax or non-existent oversight
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u/Lysol3435 20h ago
*DOE for the nuclear
Or nasty chemical plants
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u/EvolvingDior 19h ago
I dated a hydrogeologist that worked to monitor the Rocky Mountain Arsenal superfund sight in the 1990s. She wore a moonsuit to most of the bore holes. And there were sections of the site where women of child-bearing years were not permitted to work due to risks of birth defects from exposure. They buried some of the nastiest nerve agents ever made on that site, injecting some of the stuff down bore holes drilled 12,000ft (almost 3000m) deep. They actually dammed part of the aquifer to divert water around the site, and still have to extract heavy contaminants that pool on the back side of the dams.
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u/floriemida 19h ago
Good point, this is the part people overlook. Cleanup projects still affect families who never chose to live next to contaminated sites
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u/StockMarketCasino 6h ago
Servers don't get cancer. Though some may see them as the cancer.
Put the servers deep into the ground where temps are stable all year and the only above ground structure is a small entry shed and a parking lot.
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u/aquavelva23 21h ago
superfund sites are near people. reuse of contamainted properties is common, brownfields. solar is often used. both are a waste of open land IMO. put solar over parking lots, roofs, not raw land. data centers, maybe abandoned mineshafts.
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u/speedy_delivery 20h ago
With as much groundwater leaching as happens with mines, what could possibly go wrong?
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u/aquavelva23 20h ago
I envisioned them being submerged. mines usually fillup with water. lots of cooling potential, groundwater is at a constant cool temperature. make the computers specifically for those conditions. for vertical, long tubes of computers lowered down.
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u/Soggy_Association491 18h ago
put solar over parking lots
Solar panels hate dust. Putting them in parking lots is a bad idea.
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u/StockMarketCasino 6h ago
Doesn't the ground get hotter the deeper the mine goes? They'd need to be installed in that Goldilocks depth.
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u/BygoneNeutrino 12h ago
The problem with solar is that people like trees in their neighborhoods. If I had to choose between fossil fuels or trees, I'd go with the fossil fuels. Humanity already murdered all the local fauna other than the squirrels.
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u/aquavelva23 10h ago
the problem with youy is that you didnt readmy post? "put solar over parking lots, roofs, not raw land. " Are there trees on parking lots and roofs?
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u/BygoneNeutrino 2h ago edited 1h ago
My neighborhood's roofs are shaded by 50 year old oaks. We'd need to chop down our trees to make solar cost effective.
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u/aquavelva23 1h ago
lol, are you living on a superfund site? your comments are way off base. My comment was mainly commercial, roofs and parking lots. I dont have a 100 spot parking lot at my house, do you?
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u/SpeedyHAM79 19h ago
Sadly- lots of people live near Superfund sites. I used to ride my bicycle past one regularly when I was in college. Reasons not to build data centers on them are the same as anywhere else. They take tons of power and water for cooling. Not many Superfund sites are on main power transmission lines and many have highly contaminated water underneath that can't be used for cooling without causing air pollution (evaporating the contaminants into the air) or creating problems with the cooling systems themselves (fouling, corrosion).
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u/randompersonx 3h ago
Yep.
Also the conditions of each superfund site varies enormously.
Some are so toxic that construction workers get sick working on site unless they are wearing respirators … and even then, it’s hard work.
Some have such problems with groundwater that they will need to be able to access them for maintenance over time.
Some aren’t that big.
In general, I think the superfund sites that are actually in somewhat usable condition do actually get mediation and get used for something. The problem is that most superfund sites are more complex.
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u/SpaceMambo369 21h ago
An actual good idea
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u/GullibleVacation8151 20h ago
Sure. Mix radiation from these “cleaned” sites with artificial intelligence. Has no one seen Spider-Man?
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u/FrostyVariation9798 7h ago
This makes total sense. Okay, I can think of one problem in that I have heard that some data centers pollute somehow? Ramping up the inspections of polluting on Superfund sites might be problematic for some reason that is complex enough that I don't understand.
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u/Plus-You-5728 2h ago
Lame isn't the problem, its power and water
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u/Way2trivial 2h ago
are not most superfund sites previously industrial sites?
There should be some crossover..
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u/DigiTrailz 1h ago
I've seen quite a few turnes into solar farms. Because sone old industrial sites cant be used due to contamination, they just slap solar panels in it and electricity.
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u/Silver-Link8247 20h ago
Lots of land out there. Data centers use very little of it. This is a silly idea.
Plus the bitches about data centers are water usage and energy usage. Putting them on condemned land won’t change that.
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u/LimeDry7124 20h ago
Why hell aren't they built like giant refrigerators? Super insulated walls and roof.
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u/Schmergenheimer 19h ago
Because that would trap all of the heat they generate inside...
The cooling isn't just air conditioning. It's being routed through pipes directly into the racks. If you build it like a refrigerator, you'll just be trapping the heat inside, meaning the cooling system has to work harder.
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u/LimeDry7124 19h ago
But what about the heat gain from outside the building? Doesn't appear to energy efficient.
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u/EvolvingDior 18h ago
Much less than the heat produced inside the building. The buildings use 100s of megawatts. All of that is turned into heat.
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u/AngryDesignMonkey 20h ago
Although it is an idea for land acquisition, this does not solve the power needs nor the cooling resources (massive water consumption).
There are MANY ways to do data centers better and much more efficiently... however, the companies backing/building them do not want to build them properly nor effectively. They just want to build them cheaply and quickly .
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u/LilMissBads 21h ago
Honestly the lack of an existing power grid is probably the real dealbreaker here
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u/morto00x 21h ago
Problem with data centers is not the space that they take. It's that they need a ton of energy and water to operate. Because of the high energy requirements, utility companies have to generate more power and improve their distribution systems which is ultimately paid by all the homes and businesses connected to that grid. Water is still a limited resource, and once more, it is shared with local residents, businesses, and farms. So it becomes event more limited.
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u/elinamebro 20h ago
Looks like those sites are going to be used after being cleaned up and cleared for human habitation
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u/Redfish680 3h ago
Ground is still contaminated and rain creates a plume offsite. Brownfield (mostly cleaned up) sites are better suited.
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u/Old_Protection_8778 20h ago
How bout not at all. The world made it this far without em we'd continue to make it without them.no one asked for this shit.buncha nerds made it so and all of us are to involved in our phones. We'd be fine without all the bullshit that's why we're on reddit to avoid the normies
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u/spacemantodd 20h ago
Data centers employ next to no one comparatively so building near civilization is not workforce dependent. It’s usually power requirements and water, it’s hard to get the amount of power you need and water supply in relatively remote locations. And building new distribution takes a long time from a regulatory standpoint
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u/Routine_Command_5428 16h ago
Why not turn all data center/farms into commercial agricultural infrastructure. We can grow fruits and veggies inside while covering the outside and remaing property in solar and wind farms.
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u/AskPizza 15h ago
Why not never build them, ever.
They don't help anyone. these are basically labs for spreading disinformation, creating deepfakes, controlling millions of fake internet accounts, programs that act as agents that will commit white collar crimes and you can't put computer programs in prison. And they will poison the groundwater and use up so much electricity, that the cost of electricity for the average person will become outright unaffordable.
There's one site being proposed in utah that all by itself uses more electricity than the entire state of Utah already does.
And you're being told it is futile to fight it.
I hate to be the bearer of good news but, reminder, uhhhh no it isn't, this is a democracy, tell our leaders to make them illegal and dismantle them.
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u/survivorr123_ 11h ago
you sent this message to a data center, by the way, all of the internet operates on data centers
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u/Aspectdude09 10h ago
Irrelevant to the VC data centers being built just because AI, mass surveillance and robotics companies might need the compute one day.
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u/Sirgeeeo 21h ago
it's more profitable to drain already existing infrastructure than build their own.
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u/hatred-shapped 21h ago
Would you work in a place built on toxic soil?
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u/MichaelW24 21h ago
Almost nobody works in data centers once constructed
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u/adam_sky 20h ago
Ah yeah that whole “once constructed” bit is important though. Who the fuck is gonna work on toxic soil to build the thing?
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u/MichaelW24 20h ago
I've got several OSHA certs, and do agree with that. If possible, regulations will be put in place, and corners cut to meet timeline expectations and save money, circle of life.
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u/adam_sky 20h ago
Makes sense. I thought you were going to say to just make it modular and provide PPE to the severely reduced staff needed to just prepare the ground and deploy the modules.
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u/Maximum_Overdrive 20h ago
Robots
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u/adam_sky 20h ago
You find me a robot that can operate heavy machinery for 12 hours a day running on nothing but gas station food and energy drinks and I’ll build you Rome in a day.
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u/hatred-shapped 19h ago
I'm an automation engineer. We don't have "robots" that can do this.
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u/Maximum_Overdrive 10h ago
Have robots build the robots needed
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u/hatred-shapped 10h ago
But first you need to invent the technology that would allow the robots to do both the job of building the robot. And replacing the human. And we are decades from that
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u/hatred-shapped 19h ago
The last two I interviewed at had about 100 full time employees, and even if it's one person working there why would we kill people for working?
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u/Filthiest_Tleilaxu 20h ago
My girl’s aunt Trish works the desk at one.
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u/MichaelW24 20h ago edited 20h ago
Multi million sq ft facility that employs like 12 people, mostly security.
I work in a 250k sq ft building in a different industry that employs almost 150
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u/Relative-Relief-8816 21h ago
Even chatgpt agrees
They should be a preferred option in a lot of cases. EPA is now explicitly promoting Superfund and brownfield sites as potential AI data-center locations, not treating the idea as unusual.
A data center is a particularly good match for a site that is safe for industrial reuse but still not ideal for homes, schools, or farms. It needs a large, secure, mostly low-occupancy building. Its paved footprint can coexist with a properly engineered contamination cap, and old industrial sites often already have industrial zoning, transmission access, and sometimes water and rail infrastructure. EPA notes examples already exist, including a former Superfund site in Santa Clara now used as a data-storage center.
The catch is that "cleaned up" often means "contained and monitored," not "all contamination removed." A data center may need deep foundations, miles of conduit, water lines, stormwater work, backup generators, fuel systems, substations, and fiber routes. Any of that can puncture a cap, disturb contaminated soil, or interfere with groundwater remediation. It also has to solve the normal data-center constraints: huge electric capacity and redundancy, redundant fiber, water or reclaimed-water access for cooling, flat buildable acreage, flood safety, and road access. EPA's own screening guidance says a 100 MW campus typically needs about 100 acres and specifically flags cap disturbance, groundwater, liability, and infrastructure as make-or-break issues.
So the better policy is not "put every data center on a Superfund site." It is: before clearing forest, farmland, or intact rural land, require developers and counties to first screen remediated former mills, mines, smelters, power plants, landfills, and industrial campuses that have power and fiber nearby. If a site is safe for the intended industrial use and the developer pays to preserve the remedy, upgrade utilities, and assume the associated obligations, it is usually a much more defensible location than destroying greenfield land.
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u/TheRealChesterSlick 20h ago
China builds them underwater so they can receive water cooling without using potable water. This seems ideal to me.
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u/CarryMeNerd 21h ago
They are but superfund doesn’t necessarily mean no one lives there. they are trying everything to drive out those that live in Gary Indiana which is mostly superfund.
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u/Fun_Environment3792 21h ago
Because the whole point is to restore these sites for nature. Developing that land is kind of the opposite.
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u/FunkyFenom 21h ago
You often cannot build on these sites. For example, closed landfills typically can't hold any construction except for solar panels.
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u/Thegood1saregone_ 21h ago
It’s usually cheap and deserted because it’s hazardous, and not safe for work or living. A data center would have to be built, by workers, for probably a days to months plus ongoing for maintenance or repairs.
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u/MySecretPornAltAcct 21h ago
Its actually genius.
NJ is the Superfund capital but I recall my elementary school was next to one of those sites. Like the entire town had off the charts cancer rates and now it's supposedly clean almost 40 years of shutting down.
The first proposal for that land was to concert it into solar power land or housing. Housing is what's winning now despite local infrastructure being unable to support over 1000 new homes there...DC is legit a great option alongside solar, although new power would be a nightmare there for a grid connection.
Most of those facilities has the same demands a DC does so it's a smooth transition. Only downside would be NJ might beat out VA as the DC capital, which honestly makes sense given the amount of fiber that connects in little egg harbor area.
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u/ph30nix01 14h ago
because the bonus for the wealthy is to trash the property values of the people around them so they can get it cheap later.
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u/typical-bob 13h ago
Cheap and no one lives nearby? Many of the local superfund sites to me are now residential areas with hundreds of homes. Kids digging in the dirt at the playground.
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u/soupcook1 12h ago
I imagine that the hazards possible from disturbing the soil and the possible runoff to adjacent properties and streams, not to mention creating airborne breathing hazards, who be of considerable concern to the crews doing the construction. Long-term, imagine the workers spending 40-hour weeks on sight would possibly be exposed to off-gassing, airborne particles, disturbed soil when maintaining underground utilities, future spill clean-ups, etc. plus, there are probably hundreds of monitoring wells and insitu remediation technologies at work. Systems like these aren’t always visible or recognized by laypersons. The data developed via these remediation systems is best if monitored in an undisturbed location so the data can be trended and compared to the baseline data when the site was first assessed.
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u/Sellorekt 11h ago
That would be lesser evil so obviously no. And why would they do this if they can kill two birds with one stone: destroy local environment and piss off local communities.
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u/GreyBeardEng 7h ago
Because we can't run the risk of a tax free billionaire visiting the site and accidentally stepping in something that didn't get cleaned up. They are a protected class.
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u/Dull_Hedgehog_1263 5h ago
Because it makes sense. Government is opposed to anything that makes sense.
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u/OleDoxieDad 4h ago
Add solar or wind farm to supply it's own power source, not tied to the grid unless there is a surplus..
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u/beerleaguefreeagent 20h ago
Data centers should only be built in the area where the primary investor an/or developer resides. Keep that shit out of my town when you’re not from here.
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u/JackieDaytona77 20h ago
They’re already in your town you just don’t know it Cleatus 😂
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u/beerleaguefreeagent 20h ago
Not at the scale that they have been proposing
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u/JackieDaytona77 20h ago
If you live in a city they’re scattered throughout. If you’re in middle America it is on acres of land. 2+2, 4+1 it doesn’t matter. People protesting this are the same people protesting oil pipelines
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u/ostrichfather 20h ago
Yep. Modern luddites. But more stupid, because the real info is out there. They just ignore it.
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u/Redfish680 3h ago
Compare your electric bill before and after a data center gets built. Negotiations these days include the owner pay 100% of their bill.
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u/much_longer_username 13h ago
Again, not at the same scale. There's thirty or so 'data centers' in my city, but most of them only have a couple dozen racks, the biggest barely cracks a megawatt.
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u/MountainMongrel 20h ago
Infrastructure probably. The main reason they build where people already live is because they don't have to spend a lot of money on a bunch of new power lines and plumbing.
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u/stillavoidingthejvm 20h ago
How about turning Picher, OK to one big datacenter? No one lives there...
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u/ostrichfather 20h ago
Because despite what reddit tells you, hyperscalers have hundreds or thousands of people at their DCs every day
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u/flappypancaker 19h ago
They don’t have the power & water most likely. Not sure if this applies but there are probably restrictions on how the land is used/not having employees on-site
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u/JerseyshoreSeagull 19h ago
I like how you say "rules" as if anyone follows these imaginary things anymore
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