r/Suburbanhell • u/Sad_Intention6658 • Aug 05 '26
Question Is this suburban hell in your opinion?
Last picture is a business road
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u/Wisewordsforlater Aug 05 '26
Not so much. It's an older area, probably some businesses nearby and walkable and likely a bus line on a busier road.
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u/CunningWizard Aug 05 '26
More like suburban heck
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u/Tomytom99 Aug 06 '26
I like that
That's about where I am
It's not an HOA conformist maze, but it's also far from an elegant area to exist and get around outside of your home. It's pretty, but there's not really anything other than single family homes.
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u/Sad_Intention6658 Aug 05 '26
Yeah, there's a bus line that goes down two of the images
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u/PastBuy8484 Aug 05 '26 edited 4d ago
The original post content no longer exists here. The author used Redact to remove it, exercising their right to control their data & privacy.
Narrow frame scale sodium straight school chief kettle ribbon hungry
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u/thewhitebean Aug 05 '26
what state is this in? looks quiet
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u/rando_sinclair_80 Aug 05 '26
The first picture had me thinking "that looks like Fairview Park". Then scrolled and zoomed on the Grayton Road sign and see I was close, as in neighboring West Park.
Its definitely the most suburban neighborhood(s) in Cleveland, but it has its walkable parts (on Rocky River and moreso Lorain), has really good bus access and there are four RTA heavy rail Rapid stations in West Park (Brook Park/150th/West Park/Triskett), so most people are within a a mile or so of mass transit.
Suburban, mostly. Suburban hell, far from it.
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u/werner-hertzogs-shoe Aug 06 '26
it also has mature tree's (not tons, but enough to make it not depressing).
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u/MrThomasWeasel Aug 05 '26
Age doesn't magically fix walkability and ugly houses. This area has good sidewalks and ok-to-good-looking houses, which can't be said of the pictures that typically prompt that response.
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u/NoMansSkyWasAlright Aug 05 '26
Generally, the further back you go, the less urban design was oriented solely towards the car. That’s why the “old” thing comes into play. At some point a lot of places kind of gave up on the idea that people should be able to walk or bike anywhere.
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u/blahnlahblah0213 Aug 06 '26
Yeah waaaay back in my grandpa's neighborhood there was a bar down the street from him in the neighborhood, and at the corner was the corner store. Around the block was our favorite bakery that baked Italian bread fresh everyday. All walkable. It was always neat seeing a bar and a bakery and the store right in the neighborhood with all the houses
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u/Brambleshire Aug 05 '26
Some trees can go a long long way to making a place less hellish
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u/cyanraichu Aug 05 '26
I mean. It's a big part of why I don't like the idea of living in a new housing development, and I think that's fair.
Also there was at least one recently that not only didn't have any trees at all (including saplings) but it didn't even have any dirt to put them in. Just asphalt and concrete.
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u/Ilovemytowm Aug 05 '26
Trees lol. Sometimes developer puts in sad small trees after they clear cut everything now. And then new owners remove trees. See it all the time.
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u/taco-prophet Aug 05 '26
"Hell" seems too strong. It has trees and sidewalks. Pic 3 kind of looks like some sort of park. I can't say I want to live there, but it's fine.
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u/PianoPatient8168 Aug 05 '26
I’m sure there are some great vape shops within walking distance too…
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u/mountaingator91 Aug 05 '26
I looked up Grayton Rd (visible in an image) and found the exact "Canary Travel Plaza" seen in the same image.
This is Cleveland, so actually it is hell
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u/Dense_Translator_296 Aug 06 '26
Be nice. Cleveland has its good parts and not so good parts. This is out next to Hopkins Airport. It looks pretty okay to me.
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u/Triton1605 Aug 05 '26
Not quite imho. There are sidewalks and straight roads. You could probably walk or bike pretty easily to some local businesses. Infinitely better than the winding sidewalk-less cul-de-sac suburbs where the closest business is a seven eleven three miles away.
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u/stathow Aug 05 '26
to me sidewalks are not what make a place walkable or not, as you say these have tons of side walks on both sides and they still don't see a ton of foot traffic
while many small residential streets in places like spain, italy, korea, japan, have no side walks at all and yet will get a far higher walkability score and more foot traffic
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u/Rottenpotato556 Aug 05 '26
I know that I always sound like a broken record when I say this, but people should always look to the Netherlands when asking what walkability actually looks like.
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u/GeneConscious5484 Aug 05 '26
You could probably walk or bike pretty easily to some local businesses.
Are there local businesses, though? That's kinda why I don't like these types of post, because you really can't answer "can I procure a cold Diet Coke/computer mouse/baseball cap in the next 20 minutes" with a couple of photos
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u/Triton1605 Aug 05 '26
Yeah. I'm just going off vibes. I've been to suburbs that look like this and could generally get to main street in 20-30 min of walking. Not great, but way better than other suburbs where there's absolutely no walking option
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u/hitometootoo Aug 05 '26
Large sidewalks, sidewalks (and on both sides of the street) plus lots of trees and green space in between residential blocks. Looks good to me, especially when lots of areas is just concrete, a small patch of grass and no sidewalks.
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u/MakeItTrizzle Aug 05 '26
Yes. This sub has turned into "suburbs are fun and cool."
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u/yikkoe Aug 05 '26
Right? Lately it feels like some people think some suburbs are great and some are bad. While the description makes it pretty clear that they're all bad.
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u/Jenaxu Aug 06 '26
Yeah... it feels like some people's definition of "walkable" has less to do with function and connectivity and is more "can you literally walk here".
This is like perfect suburban heck imo, you can lowkey do decently well without a car and it's dense/connected enough to give you options, but you'll still have to contend with a lot of car infra and you'll be roughing it out as an odd duckling if you seriously bike and walk for your trips.
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u/and_my_axe- Aug 05 '26
100% yes
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u/BreadForTofuCheese Aug 05 '26
I’ve lived in this area and I’ve lived in the more typical suburban hells posted here. The lived experience is pretty much exactly the same. People are letting a few trees and some sidewalks that never get used cloud their judgement.
It’s not the worst, but it still fits the sub just fine.
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u/and_my_axe- Aug 05 '26
Exactly. The fact remains that the only thing in the photo that is meant for pedestrians is a 3-foot wide sidewalk, standard in north america. Bikes have to share with the lifted trucks and soccer moms in Escalades. Like cool you get some shade every 20 feet so what? Is the bar really that low?
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u/WC23634 Aug 05 '26
Yea this is definitely on the west side of Cleveland.
As somebody from the 216, I wouldn't say this is suburban hell at all. Maybe I'm just used to this but this has been an older area, the cribs got a lil character to them, and there's tree cover all around. These ain't like those McMansions that sit on driveways and streets with no sidewalk or tree cover.
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u/cucurbitulae Aug 05 '26
Not one living soul visible in any photos. 100% suburban hell.
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u/Sad_Intention6658 Aug 05 '26
There are people on my walks, I just don't take pictures of then
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u/cucurbitulae Aug 05 '26
Fair. But the fact that that is even possible anywhere in a city should tell you that it is suburban hell.
You wouldn't be able to avoid having humans in your photos in a city. Maybe around 4 AM, but not in the middle of the day.
More importantly, I see very wide streets that lead to.. nothing? There's no cafe to sit, no storefronts to check, no awnings to wait for a bus in the rain... just nothing.
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u/Ok_Function2282 Aug 06 '26
I feel like this is a TV idea of what cities are like.
You can walk by the Sears Tower on a Sunday night and not have a soul around you in Chicago.
Same thing applies to a lot of major streets in a lot of big cities.
There are districts that have a lot of people in every city, and then others that could be completely empty, depending on the time of day.
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u/Shot-Artichoke-4106 Aug 05 '26
Looks fine to me. Lots of trees, good sidewalks, looks like it is mixed-density with a combination of small apartment buildings, townhouses, and single family homes, there is a neighborhood park. We can't see from any of the photos, but since it is an older neighborhood, I would bet that there are commercial areas nearby. Overall, it looks fairly walkable and bikable, built on human scale.
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u/Fetty_is_the_best Aug 05 '26
Not as bad as many others in the U.S. but just because it has sidewalks and trees does not mean it is at all walkable, still looks like typical automobile oriented sprawl
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u/Optimal-Fix-2997 Aug 05 '26
Nah. Brookpark is old world suburbia and kinda boring but still shits on parma.
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u/bigdipper80 Aug 05 '26
I know Cleveland when I see it. Kamms Corners? Definitely not suburban hell.
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u/Dblcut3 Aug 05 '26
Is this suburban Cleveland? A lot of these older suburbs in NE OH have good bones - grid pattern, sidewalks, small lot sizes, decent density. But I’ve noticed that there’s a lack of walkability in a lot of these places due to bad transit options or a lack of good commercial districts
I think places like this could easily be retrofitted into vibrant neighborhoods, just needs some investment around the edges
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u/foolag Aug 05 '26
I’d say this is more suburban hell
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u/Clevelandrocks443 Aug 06 '26
Ew where is that Texas, Florida? That a real place?
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u/Jenaxu Aug 06 '26
Could be worse, could be better. But to some extent it's more the function than the form, i.e how's it like walking and biking around to places you might want to go, is there viable transit, etc. That's not always clear just from appearances and can differ a lot within a small area.
Dropping in on google maps though, it seems okay. Kinda suburban heck to me, if not a little better. Still very car biased, but seems reasonable to be car light and it's not too far from downtown Cleveland. The flatness probably makes biking pretty great, and the connectivity of the residential street grid seems very useful in terms of staying off the main roads. Reasonable bus coverage too, although probably slow compared to just cycling around. Logistically winter might be a pain in the ass depending on how well they clear the streets, but it might be better than some areas that are more reliant on trails that don't get cleared at all.
It feels very similar to places I've lived in in the northeast which is basically, you're not going to have an amazing time walking and biking compared to a proper city, but you could do a whole lot worse in the US. And hey, being close to the beach is a plus lol
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u/Critical_Dollar Aug 06 '26
I might be biased because I grew up in a neighborhood just like this in Cleveland, off of State road. But this is far from worst I’ve seen in ohio.
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u/UncleEffort Aug 06 '26 edited Aug 06 '26
Looks like a middle-class neighborhood in either a northern city or inner-suburb. It looks walkable and probably not too far from somewhere to shop. Not hell.
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u/Aquitaine_Rover_3876 Aug 05 '26
It's not the most hellish suburb. At least there's a sidewalk, and the purely residential streets aren't wide enough to drop a freeway through if the plans change, though the "business" road looks like it might be.
But...yeah...still wouldn't want to live there.
1 - That is an absolutely astronomical amount of empty lawn and extreme house setbacks. Has no one here heard of shrubs, flowers, etc? There's a few trees, but no real canopy.
2 - I don't see a single human being in any of these pictures. Does anyone walk anywhere? Even just around the block to get some fresh air? That's a pretty big indicator of whether a community is hellish or not. I live in a pretty suburban neighbourhood, but you'd have to try pretty hard to avoid getting a few people walking down the street in a set of photos like this.
3 - The last picture refers to a "business road," but I do not see any businesses. It looks like apartments on the right (in line with the usual "put the most people where the most noise is" approach to suburban development). What kind of services can be reached from the residential area without using a car?
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u/bigdipper80 Aug 05 '26
The neighborhood is Kamms Corners in Cleveland. Quite robust transit options in the area particularly along Lorain Avenue and it even has two heavy rail stations along its eastern edge. The photos OP provided don't look dense but the heart of the neighborhood does have a walkable business district,
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u/Honeybucket206 Aug 05 '26
depends, is it getting more walkable, green, liveable or less?
hell-lite
hell-ish
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u/TuneLinkette Citizen Aug 05 '26
Suburban Purgatory, maybe.
I'd have to get a better sense of the entire town, but the presence of sidewalks is a significant plus. Not a place I'd have my heart set on living, but if I did have to live there I could get used to it.
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u/RevolutionaryYear439 Aug 06 '26
I think a lot of the Cleveland suburbs aren’t as bad depending on how old they are and how heavily residential they are. Like a lot of them are still walkable, have business, and some kind of community. Particularly the streetcar suburbs.
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u/gaoshan Aug 09 '26
Looks as stereotypically blue collar white Cleveland suburb as it possibly could, lol.
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u/ddpizza Aug 05 '26 edited Aug 05 '26
Tbh not suburban hell for me. I think of suburban hell as the worst of all worlds: cookie-cutter ugly housing in endless rows, small yards, little privacy. Basically all of the drawbacks of density without any of the benefits of living in a walkable urban neighborhood.
This just seems like a boring but pleasant lower-middle class suburb. The houses aren’t the same, there’s greenery and open space, there are sidewalks and buses, and it’s clean and well kept.
I wouldn’t choose to live here but I’d take this over many other types of neighborhoods.
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u/Prosthemadera Aug 05 '26
It is bad, yes. Roads are still too wide, there is too much empty space that isn't used for anything but lawn. And that lawn is biologically dead and no one will use it when there isn't even shade.
And as always, it connects to a multi-lane highway, so it's all about cars, cars, cars.
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u/Snoo_23482 Aug 05 '26
There’s at least sidewalks. Suburban hell to me is like subdivision with no side walks, trees, or paths that lead to places like a corner store without needing a car
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u/kaminaripancake Aug 05 '26
Average, tree coverage no stroads and side walks make this better than a lot of suburbs
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u/Outside_Walrus_8391 Aug 05 '26
fairview park and cleveland west side
could be worse
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u/dollabillkirill Aug 05 '26
This could be part of a major city. Looks like neighborhoods I’ve lived in in cities of 700k people.
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u/This_Rhubarb_1505 Aug 05 '26
West Park! I used to live here. Quite literally the opposite of suburban hell in my opinion. Loved living here.
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u/rakklle Aug 05 '26
Those are older homes in first few pictures. If this location is near Cleveland, it might have been a real town before it got sucked into the growth and became a suburb.
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u/sichuan_peppercorns if it ain't walkable, I don't want it Aug 05 '26
I think I would feel depressed there, but to be fair, it's hard to tell how walkable it is with just these pictures. Could you easily and safely walk to get groceries, visit a doctor, grab coffee/lunch at a non-chain restaurant?
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u/cyanraichu Aug 05 '26
Not at all. Looks really nice. Only issue is the roads, but that's running on the assumption that it's primarily car-centric (a fair assumption in the US, but this COULD be serviced by a bus or train, we just don't know from looking). Well, and the lawns. Don't love all the lawns.
Lots of trees, nice gardens, housing density looks decent from this angle. Power lines are ugly but those are everywhere.
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u/Sad_Intention6658 Aug 05 '26
It's got a solid like 3 bus connections that run every 15 minutes or so? It's not bad and has good access to the train station too
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u/mountaingator91 Aug 05 '26
Plenty of sidewalks and greenery/shade, older, likely well built, homes instead of mcmansions, streets seem to be laid out in a grid based on the few visible intersections... Is this even a suburb or is it the residential part of a city?
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u/Eldritch-banana-3102 Aug 05 '26
Looks like a place that might have kids playing outside and folks walking their dogs. Looks ok to me but I am just now noticing I might be in the wrong sub :)
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u/Mackheath1 Aug 05 '26
It checks a few boxes, but it doesn't have the cul-de-sac nightmares, and most of the houses appear to have a front door entrance instead of a hideous garage ('snout house'). They seem appropriately sized. Picture one shows tree-lined street with home not covered in manicured lawn that nobody uses.
So, I wouldn't really call it SuburbanHell.
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u/Mister_Widget Aug 05 '26
No, this is Suburban Purgatory at worst. There are full-blown sidewalks everywhere, and they look relatively well-maintained. There is also plenty of trees and grass. While it is far from an idealized, walkable, pedestrian-centric environment, it's clearly better than most suburbs.
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u/InThePipe5x5_ Aug 05 '26
No. Though the multi lane highway is pushing it for me.
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u/crimedog58 Aug 05 '26
My definition of suburban hell is there is no grocery or drug store within a 20 minute walk or 5 minute drive. I live in a hood like this. Guessing houses are 1930s-50s. I have two bars, 4 restaurants, a Walgreens and a grocery store of last resort within a 20 minute walk.
Where’s the store?
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u/Sad_Intention6658 Aug 05 '26
Maybe 15 min walk or 5 min bike ride for most parts of the burb
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u/Western-Turnover-154 Aug 05 '26
This isn’t suburban hell.
Show me an ocean of homes connected to a freeway in California, Texas, Arizona, etc.
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u/Dense_Translator_296 Aug 06 '26
Design is fine. My greater concern about the neighborhood is it's close proximity to Hopkins Airport.
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u/Dense_Translator_296 Aug 06 '26
This whole thread seems to have an underlying thread of judgement because it is a car dependent place. Most places are! I live in a leafy 19th century suburb where I can walk to everything. I choose that lifestyle. I didn't even own a car for 17 years. That being said, just because I like walkable places doesn't mean I'll stand in judgment of car dependent places.
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u/highfiveselfoh Aug 06 '26
As an Ohioan….yes. I love my state I love living here and having grown up here but this would be a con for me.
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u/zimzumpogotwig Aug 06 '26
As a Clevelander myself and recognizing my city, no. We can walk and bike nearly anywhere in this city. I like it here
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u/EddieTreetrunk Aug 06 '26
Suburban hell is that photo of the same plastic home in a field for miles. With no vegetation , I think it was Colorado
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u/AggravatingJaguar600 Aug 06 '26
Unless you’re a block or two from a walkable commercial street with grocery and restaurants and what not, this is definitely a suburbia that I would avoid.
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u/drkhrrsn Aug 06 '26
This neighborhood has sidewalks. The neighborhood that I grew up in as a kid did not.
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u/Freeway267 Aug 07 '26
Actually no. This has generous green space. Some places put hideous concrete medians and islands everywhere.
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u/Remote-Respond7056 Aug 05 '26
No, huge grass areas,big sidewalks, and lastly there’s even a bus stop on slide 6. This is good for the suburbs
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u/Segazorgs Suburbanite Aug 05 '26
Still all R-1 single family zone housing. Still functions the same as a new tract development and doesn't matter that it's older. Probably worse with all huge setbacks and large empty yards. My suburban neighborhood.has a random 7/11 in the middle of it, a shopping center with a grocery store, couple restaurants that backup to R1 zone suburban neighborhoods. I don't call it anything else. I walk to that gym from my house. Still a suburb and suburban hell if you hate suburbs.
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u/Cubacane Aug 05 '26
My brother in cyberspace, a majority of the world's population would kill to live somewhere that clean with that much infrastructure.
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u/PerryNeeum Aug 05 '26
I see variety here. If this is suburban hell then let’s just say all of suburbia is hell.
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u/GoonOnGames420 Aug 05 '26
Trees and sidewalks. Already better than my location.
Can you walk to at least a convenience store from your home?
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u/Sad_Intention6658 Aug 05 '26
Yeah, it takes maybe 5 minutes by bike and 10-15 by walking to get to a big supermarket
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u/Intelligent-Ad-1424 Aug 05 '26
The yards are a little big and the trees are a little sparse which gives it a little of that liminal hellish feel, but it’s better than many modern developments because it has solid sidewalks and straight roads. I feel like the houses need to be a foot closer to the road though lol
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u/kababed Aug 05 '26
Early stage suburban hell. Built for cars, but not full car dependency. Some transit and walkability. Simple upzoning would improve things, but not as bad as suburbs further out
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u/Key_Fee158 Aug 05 '26
It depends entirely how far it is from parks and commercial areas.
It could also use more trees or shrubbery but it’s not the worst.
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u/CloudedLeopardDaemon Aug 05 '26
Not really. I prefer older houses that are closer together, narrower streets, and more trees. But that's not suburban hell by any means.
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u/Ok-Disaster-7429 Aug 05 '26
Close but it has trees and some character. Not the same house repeated one after another.
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u/ArschSprengung Aug 05 '26
Nah it's okay actually, especially first picture.
The Karens havent chopped all the trees down
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u/adobo_bobo Aug 05 '26
The fact that it actually has sidewalks puts it in the upper braket of suburbs.
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u/PopEffective1376 Aug 05 '26
No. Suburban hell is Walmart parking lots and similar stores. McMansions with massive garages and stroads galore.
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u/sammorto765 Aug 05 '26
Not really tbh. At least that area has walking space and a sidewalk in general lol.
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u/Brambleshire Aug 05 '26
If I was forced to live in a suburb it would definitely be the oldest, inner City, grid pattern suburbs like this one.
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u/mauerfan Aug 05 '26
No lol. Suburban hell are those 500k houses that all look the same and were built with shit materials.
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u/DingusKhanHess Aug 05 '26
Not necessarily. Just to me too flat and treeless near the streets. Wouldn’t be so much for me.
Actually on looking this up if it’s Westlake outside Cleveland then yes after looking at the layout.
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u/panini_bellini Aug 05 '26
It’s never a place id ever, ever want to live but it’s not the worst I’ve seen
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u/Top-Nectarine-835 Aug 05 '26
The houses don't all look identical and it looks walkable. I could live here.
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u/hibikir_40k Aug 05 '26
Is there a place to sit legally, other than the ground? can I see any business whatsoever? Hell.
Are there deeper layers of hell? Absolutely, but trees don't make things not hellish. The land use is still far away from reasonable. A shared lawn with nothing to do with it might as well be a moat. You can also tell because there's not one human being walking in any direction.
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u/livefreeordont Aug 05 '26
How far is the grocery store and restaurants? Sidewalks is not really the best sign because my parents old neighborhood had sidewalks for dog walkers but the nearest shops and stores were 3+ miles away via stroads
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u/anand_rishabh Aug 05 '26
I wouldn't want to live here but sadly nowhere near the worst suburb in the states
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u/Minister_of_Trade Aug 05 '26
Nah, sidewalks, street lights, park space...more of a small town feel than suburban hell
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u/Melubrot Aug 05 '26
Yes, it looks to be an older, early 20th Century suburb, but like modern suburbs it still suffers from 19th Century hypertrophic planning practices such as overly wide streets and generous front, side and rear yards. The resulting land use pattern, while it has better connectivity than a modern suburban subdivision, appears to be zoned solely for low density, single-family residential uses which means it lacks sufficient density to make transit and small-scale infill commercial development viable.
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u/minnesotanpride Aug 05 '26
Suburban hell always has a stroad somewhere with wide double lane roads and a ton of stop lights. Need a car to get anywhere or do anything.
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u/adron Aug 05 '26
It’s original platted neighborhoods. They’re the decent ones, and I wish they could have kept their streetcars, they’d be 100x better, probably have kept more of their town centers, and almost economically sustainable. But they do suffer less of the imbalance than the modern suburban developments do and eat up far fewer funds. Sadly, like all suburbs unless the residents are fairly well off, the area won’t be maintained very well.
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u/MH358629 Aug 05 '26
Not at all. They look like pleasant, quiet suburbs with good schools. Great place to raise kids.
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u/MostSupport1713 Aug 05 '26
If this is “suburban hell” to you grow the fuck up and look at how you coulda been born into a shithole 3rd world country and be grateful for this type of neighborhood.
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u/TheClayDart Aug 05 '26
No this is old suburbia. Some small town shops used to or are still close by probably even within walking distance.
To me suburban hell are the cookie cutter neighborhoods where every house looks identical, hardly any greenery, and you’d have to sit in traffic for 30+ minutes to get to any sort of shopping
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u/Tjbergen Aug 05 '26
Yes. The plain grass, the wide roads, the blocks of housing. It's not clear how near some commercial might be or how many blocks the housing patter goes on for - a few stores and restaurants nearby would make a big difference.
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u/Nawnp Aug 05 '26
Sidewalks traffic lights, school slow down zones...not even close to what makes real suburbs so dreadful.
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u/BacklogGamingJunkie Aug 05 '26
looks great to me, some of those older streets look very quiet, just the way i like it
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u/but-I-play-one-on-TV Aug 05 '26
Not at all. Wide streets and sidewalks, fewer trees than I would prefer but not terrible. I wouldn't live there but it's not bad at all as far as suburbs go n
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u/krycek1984 Aug 05 '26
No, I grew up in an area exactly like that in an inner ring suburb of cleveland. It's not at all hell
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u/Kokoro0000 Aug 05 '26
Ehhhh kinda, but it feels more like a slightly unwalkable area in a medium sized city moreso
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u/stathow Aug 05 '26 edited Aug 05 '26
certainly far from the worst
but it suffers the very common single use zoning which is even worse with the car dependency.
people are just used to this type of infrastructure and don't realize how much space it takes up and how spreading everything out contributes a lot to car dependency, like yes there are a lot of side walks but when everything is so far spread out in theory you can walk to a store but it might take too long to regularly do so.