r/The10thDentist • u/Melodic-Society-6496 • Aug 18 '26
TV/Movies/Fiction Christopher Nolan is Michael Bay but for pretentious people.
I am tired of everyone treating Christopher Nolan like the second coming of Stanley Kubrick. He is not a cinematic genius. He is just Michael Bay with a British accent and a tailored suit. When you strip away the pseudo-intellectual wrapping paper, Nolan’s movies rely on the exact same cheap tricks as the Transformers franchise.
Deafening sound design: Bay uses explosions to blow out your eardrums. Nolan uses Hans Zimmer or Ludwig Göransson to blast aggressive, continuous bass lines so you do not notice nothing is actually happening. If you need a sub-woofer to create tension, your script is weak.
Spectacle over substance: Bay crashes real cars and blows up real buildings. Nolan crashes a real airplane into a hangar and flips a real semi-truck. It is cool craftsmanship, sure, but it serves the exact same purpose: flashy, expensive jingling keys to distract the audience.
Terrible character writing: Neither director can write a compelling, emotionally resonant human being to save their life. Bay’s characters are horny, hyperactive caricatures. Nolan’s characters are cold, emotionless cardboard cutouts who exist purely to explain the plot's rules to the audience.
The illusion of depth: This is where Nolan actually gets worse. Bay knows he makes junk food. Nolan passes off junk food as a five-course gourmet meal. Inception is just a basic heist movie wrapped in an overly complicated rulebook. Interstellar hides a generic "love conquers all" cliché behind basic astrophysics lectures. Tenet was completely incomprehensible, yet fans gaslit themselves into thinking it was a masterpiece because "you just have to feel it."
Nolan makes loud, chaotic blockbusters designed to make average viewers feel smart for understanding a highly exposed, linear plot masquerading as a puzzle. He is a hype-merchant for film bros.
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Aug 18 '26
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u/Useful-Finding-1685 Aug 18 '26
checks tattoo
Oh yeah, it was pretty good
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u/lemerou Aug 18 '26
Insomnia was great also.
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u/Various-Dust285 Aug 18 '26
I would just generally say that if you divide Nolan's films in the middle chronologically, let's say before and after Inception, the first half is so clearly better than the second half.
He also peaked in the middle. The first half goes up in quality until it peaks at The Dark Knight or Inception. Then we got the disappointing run of Tenet, Oppenheimer, and The Odyssey. The Odyssey is the best of those 3, but that run has sort of killed my eagerness for Nolan movies. I'm done getting hyped up and counting down the days till they release. Honestly, I like all 6 of the films from Momento to Inception more than I like any of his last 4 films
He has been thoroughly replaced by Villeneuve.
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u/PiersPlays Aug 18 '26
Pre and post Jonathan seems like the real deciding line (with the caveat that iirc he was barely involved with Interstellar.)
I saw Arrival (a few years after it came out) and thought "oh that was a cool film, I should make sure to seek out other projects by that guy!" then wasn't in a great position to hunt down and enjoy interesting films as much as I'd like since then. I was really impressed by the little snippet of Dune 3 at The Odessey and am hoping to dig into his stuff once I've got a half-decent way to watch films at home again. Any suggestions where to get started?
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u/Kirbyintron Aug 18 '26
Honestly I think you can start with any of them. Dune might be a good place if you’re into the source material or sci fi epics in general, especially with the new one coming soon. But Prisoners, Sicario and Blade Runner are all great too. Can’t comment on his French language stuff, been meaning to watch it but haven’t gotten around to it
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u/beets_or_turnips Aug 18 '26
The Batman movies totally fall victim to the same complaints of the OP, though, with the exception of Heath Ledger's performance. Everyone else is a cardboard cutout or a silly caricature. Grand spectacle, paper-thin substance.
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u/PiersPlays Aug 18 '26
I thought Micheal Caine's performance was strong, albeit without much for him to do.
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u/beets_or_turnips Aug 18 '26 edited Aug 18 '26
Yep, he's been totally solid in all Nolan's films that I can remember, though he's almost always playing the same character, pulling the strings, giving the assignments and/or warning the ambitious male lead that he's sacrificed his humanity for his ambition.
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u/ScarletMagenta Aug 18 '26
Movies where he worked with his brother don't count. I think OP might somewhat agree too. His solo works are egregious.
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u/DoctorK96 Aug 18 '26
Nothing is a solo work, it always has been a collaborative project
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u/ScarletMagenta Aug 18 '26
You get the point. He hasn't worked with his brother Jonathan since Interstellar
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u/Elissa-Megan-Powers Aug 19 '26
More clever than good.
At his worst, John Carpenter isn’t as clever, but better.
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u/sandwiches_are_real Aug 18 '26
Sure, but he ripped the entire plot from Gene Wolfe without attribution.
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u/anotherlebowski Aug 19 '26
His early stuff like Memento/Prestige was great, and Batman was great as a totally different type of movie, but now it's like he's trying to marry it all together into an intellectual-blockbuster and it's just not working for me. I mean they new movies aren't bad, I still enjoy them, but it's such a dropoff starting after The Dark Knight. I really wish he'd become a bit more self aware of this problem and fix it, because he has such potential that he's not using, but he's making massive money being Michael Bay 2.0, so I doubt he's going to fix it.
Haven't seen The Odyssey yet btw so maybe this isn't a totally fair shake.
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u/Independent-Shoe543 Aug 18 '26
It's giving
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u/falconpunch1989 Aug 18 '26
Right on. Nolan is a hack. He's simply making technically ambitious, audio visually stunning, heartfelt and creative versions of bad films.
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u/PiersPlays Aug 18 '26
Heartfelt? He's like a robot-boy trying to pass amongst the humans.
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u/ShadowMerlyn Aug 18 '26
Interstellar wasn’t at all heartfelt? I’ll give you that most of his movies aren’t, but it’s not like he isn’t capable of it.
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u/o_o_o_f Aug 18 '26
I’m with that guy. Most of Interstellar’s heart comes from fantastic performances, rather than great writing and direction.
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u/DeusVultSaracen Aug 18 '26
Part of getting a fantastic performance comes from great direction. The actors don't just walk on set, read the script, film their scenes, and leave. It's a collaborative process.
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u/o_o_o_f Aug 18 '26
There’s a good bit of industry-speak I like - “You see a movie with a good performance? That’s a good actor. Every performance in the movie is good? That’s a good director.”
So while I agree with what you’re saying, if Nolan is a great director of emotion, then why is it that only Interstellar has this heart?
For what it’s worth I do think he’s generally a good director. Just not a good director of actors in this sense. I saw a press junket with some of the Odyssey cast, and someone told a story of watching Pattinson ask Nolan something about his character, to which Nolan replied, “that’s your job to figure out, not mine”. He casts great actors and trusts them to give good performances, which is cool. But it doesn’t lend itself to really emotionally connected stories imo.
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u/eriksatiesimp Aug 19 '26
I love how the writing always falls to the wayside with people in these discussions 🤣😭
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u/DontYaWishYouWereMe Aug 18 '26
Yeah, exactly; it's not some sort of weird accident his films are often described as being emotionally quite cold. It's like watching something made by someone terrified of ever being seen in the same room as something heartfelt, let alone be that way himself
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u/fucuntwat Aug 18 '26
Interstellar is one of the most emotionally impactful movies I’ve ever seen, between the scene with the videos from home, the double betrayals, all the way to the final scene in the hospital
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u/Nate_the_Mate_2 Aug 18 '26
What artist isn't a bit of an unhinged weirdo trying to pass as a person
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u/BadSame6919 Aug 18 '26
Nolan's the furthest from an "unhinged weirdo".
Kubrick was. And he was a genius.
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u/Piligrim555 Aug 18 '26
What, you weren't crying after the "and my son????" scene from Tenet?
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u/BlackDeath3 Aug 18 '26
Or Cobb's goodbye to Mal in Inception.
Or the train scene in Dunkirk.
Or the Truman scene in Oppenheimer.
Or the passing of the dog in The Odyssey.
Or just about the entirety of Interstellar.
And so on.
Not to say that Nolans films are like fucking operas or whatever, but if you can't pick up on the emotional beats and cores in these stories then frankly you might be a bit stunted yourself.
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u/illzanity Aug 18 '26
One of my favorites I go back to is the “Why do we fall?” scene while Alfred saves Bruce from the burning of the mansion. Although the performances are great, this very heartfelt moment very much is a product of Nolan’s script, not just the strength of the actors
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u/MondayAssasin Aug 18 '26
I agree with you for the most part but Interstellar is deeply heartfelt and sentimental.
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u/Jaizoo Aug 18 '26
audio visually stunning
Because they are stupefyingly loud in intense scenes?
(I really like his movies but several scenes out of the Odyssey nearly gave me tinnitus)
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u/DinoRaawr Aug 18 '26
Tenet was basically unwatchable in theaters. You need subtitles for the dialogue in that movie.
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u/SAURI23 Aug 18 '26
This 100% makes sense though. The OP is talking about movies that have incredibly skilled directing, props, music etc. but that lack actual depth or message, like Nolan's movies are to an extent imo.
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u/Sclave Aug 18 '26
I'm not going to say he's making highbrow art, but pretentious Michael Bay is just so off. Bay got his way into the industry selling cars and sexualising women, what makes transformers bad isn't the parallels you pointed out to Nolan's film making, it's that their uninspired, in no way aim to explore any themes or ideas the film maker finds interesting and are just high budget military recruiting advertisements.
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u/Natural_Hair464 Aug 18 '26
Some people think only "high art" counts as art, so when they hear about an amazing director they think "french film" not Jaws.
I have my own criticisms of Chris Nolan movies, but OP should rewatch Christian Bale on a second viewing of the Prestige. Michael Bay or Brett Rattner couldn't pull off something like that.
The other thing is just hype backlash.
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u/Sclave Aug 18 '26
Exactly, there is no hierarchy of art. Our language failed the moment it lumped together screen-writing, sculpture, videography, and interperative dance under the one nebulous label of 'art'.
Be it a Nolan film or some 1924 bauhaus inspired animation made in Czechoslovakia on a zoetrope about some existential angst there's value of the art, and the meaning in both
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u/-faffos- Aug 18 '26
But Michael Bay's movies are art as well. You and most people might hate them, but how many directors have a style this distinctive? His movies might be terribly misguided, but uninspired is the last thing I would call them.
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u/o_o_o_f Aug 18 '26
I think y’all are either misrepresenting or misunderstanding how people talk about art in these contexts
Most conversations about art in these shorthand social media formats are really about some personally-derived holistic combination of how well a piece of media achieves its vision, how entertaining it is, what emotions it elicits, how novel it is, etc.
People aren’t out here legitimately making arguments about categorical definitions of what art is and what art isn’t. Y’all are over-intellectualizing this while also ignoring the actual content of the conversations you’re discussing
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u/VastEmergency1000 Aug 18 '26
Sure, BUT.... Transformers 1 looked fucking cool 😎, don't deny it.
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u/GrinningD Aug 18 '26
I'll deny it; you couldn't see any of the cool most of the time because the camera was zoomed in like the transformers were people sized. (Except for Optimus in the woods. That was freaking cool. Why weren't the rest of the fights shot like that?)
And Deveststor looked fucking dumb. What a waste!
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u/pgm123 Aug 18 '26
Agreed. So many fight scenes were close ups of robot asses.
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u/Accomplished_Mix7827 Aug 18 '26
Yeah, Nolan is decidedly midbrow, but he at least makes movies because he wants to make movies.
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u/Accomplished_Mix7827 Aug 18 '26
Like, is The Odyssey the best film I've ever seen? No, the character work is a little flat and the dialog is clunky in places ("our age of bronze is collapsing" definitely made me roll my eyes).
But was it a well-produced film with a cohesive message, quality set pieces, and generally a step above the average Marvel movie? Absolutely!
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u/Accomplished_Sir_362 Aug 18 '26 edited Aug 18 '26
Nolan can't write a single compelling female character, whereas his flawed male characters are just misunderstood. You can say Bruce, Oppenheimer and Odysseus are all the same characterization wise. But tell me a single standout female character from nolan movies .
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u/Sclave Aug 18 '26 edited Aug 18 '26
Again 'not saying Nolan's a highbrow artist'. Yes I acknowledge his female characters lack depth - putting it lightly in a collection of cases - yes that is a weakness in his ability as a storyteller. But nevertheless his not passing the bechdel test is a far cry from the => deliberate <= objectification which helped make Bays career what it was.
And just to boil down the topic of the original post of 'Nolan = Bay but pretentious' to just their writing of women is reductive the other points I made
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u/perculaessss Aug 18 '26
Just in, Penelope had actual character flaws and personality besides being the "woman"
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u/SpiderGiaco Aug 18 '26
Does she really? She is actually even less deep than the Penelope from the poem.
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u/ecto-american Aug 18 '26
Anne Hathaway was the standout performance in The Odyssey but go off i guess
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u/fatninja7 Aug 18 '26
"the" standout? or "the female" standout?
Cause IMHO, "the" standout performance was Pattison.
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u/ecto-american Aug 18 '26
THE standout. Pattinson was great as always, but Penelope held my attention every time she was on screen
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u/PiersPlays Aug 18 '26
It's close, they're both great in it. I think her performance felt more as though she was 100% sure of herself as an actor. There was a hint of insecurity in his performance that happened to fit the character quite well but possibly still held it back a little. It didn't feel like he was absolutely certain about and comfident in his creative choices (or perhaps in his freedom to make them.) Which is a pity since his instincts with that character were fantastic.
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u/knallpilzv2 Aug 18 '26
So...you can't, then, are you saying? You can only say something about the actress?
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u/zackdaniels93 Aug 18 '26 edited Aug 18 '26
Marion Cotillard as Mal in Inception? Brilliant performance, and her character is essentially the whole reason the story exists. She's the focal point and the main motive.
I won't count Oppenheimer as it's a true story, but Emily Blunt and Florence Pugh are both great in it.
Jessica Chastain and Anne Hathaway as Murphy and Brand respectively, in Interstellar. Both great performances, and Chastain's one or two scenes are the most memorable of the movie that aren't set pieces.
Anne Hathaway's Penelope in The Odyssey is the best performance of the movie as well, and in no way the same as any of the other characters I've mentioned.
EDIT: Though I will say I desperately tried to remember the character that Elliot Page played in Inception (Ariadne) and couldn't do it. Had to Google it lol
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u/SledgeGlamour Aug 18 '26
Cotillard is a great actor, but Mal is a bit of a sexy lamp. I think that's actually okay in this case, because she's perhaps entirely in the main character's head
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u/ezrs158 Aug 18 '26
I agree about Mal but it's amusing that she's still kind of a "dead wife" trope too.
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u/SpiderGiaco Aug 18 '26
Come on, Mal is not a compelling character. She is a prop used to explain Cobb's emotions and motivation. And that's how all female characters of Nolan are written, btw.
Penelope has one scene were she is all anger whispers and for the rest she just stares behind the curtains, but sure, best performance of the movie.
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u/Telcontar77 Aug 18 '26
and Chastain's one or two scenes are the most memorable of the movie that aren't set pieces.
Come on, Coop watching those videos, breaking down, was by far the most memorable scene.
But otherwise, I'd generally agree.
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u/Accomplished_Sock435 Aug 18 '26
The only reason the women in any Nolan movie is good is because he picks very talented actresses who bring more to it than he actually writes.
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u/Scalene69 Aug 18 '26
Murph was compelling, same with Penelope.
His protagonists are all dudes, and usually in "male-dominated fields" where most of the side characters are dudes too. Most side characters are not developed so it isn't that surprising that most of Nolan's female characters are one-note. I don't think the message of any of his films can be reasonably read as misogynistic, which is where I would draw a line.
Movies are continuing to become more and more diverse, which is good. But it doesn't mean every director needs to write female protagonists, if that's not what they want to do. It's fine as long as films are being made with female protagonists.
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u/milesunderground Aug 18 '26
It's worth noting that on paper, Megan Fox's character was pretty good in Transformers, but Bay shot her like brainless eye candy and so that's the impression audiences were largely left with.
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u/ITriedSoHard419-68 Aug 18 '26
So glad I'm not the only one to notice this, especially with The Odyssey. He botched Circe and Calypso so bad, and sidelining Athena entirely was certainly a choice.
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u/Jazzlike-History-380 Aug 18 '26
He's basically Bong Joon Ho of UK. Pop-art, but musuem worthy. Pseudo-intellectual directors like Ruben Ostlund don't deserve the praise, but Noland hardly pretends to be one. His art is pretty straightforward, consumable and definitely not over the top or pretentious like OP makes it out to be. Just because it appeals to masses doesn't mean it's not a great film. ie, Chinatown is a masterpiece, Godfather is god tier, these movies were hits on box office. There is as much character development in all of Noland's films as any. Dark Knight, Interstellar, Inception, Oppenheimer, The Odyssey all revolve around character maturation and to be honest similar introspection/regret. I mean who forgets the boat dillema Joker imposed on Bruce Wayne? or the metaphor behind choosing fake happy reality vs. Truth but darkness of inception? Choosing humanity's rescue vs. being a father? individual greatness vs. consientciousness? Great themes, I love him.
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u/dmac005 Aug 19 '26
Roger Ebert called The Armageddon the first “150-minute trailer” and I couldn’t agree more.
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u/somethingworse Aug 18 '26
Whilst I completely agree that Christopher Nolan isn't a genius making high brow art... I don't think many people genuinely think that? If anything I think the pretentious take is that you're somehow special for realising he's making blockbusters.
You have to enjoy them for what they are.
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u/LastBaron Aug 18 '26
I don’t know where I come down on this, but I think basically OP is calling Nolan the Olive Garden of films:
Not bad, and a step up from fast food, but basic, formulaic, and far from a high end steakhouse while still somehow being what less experienced people (aka the majority) think of when you say “go out for a nice dinner.”
In other words I agree that among people who are deeply familiar with films no one is thinking of Nolan as a generational avant-garde innovator, but I think OP might have a point that many people who DONT think about movies very often see him as “the fancy” director because he’s not making fast and furious or MCU movies.
Also on a personal note it’s worth saying that I have thoroughly enjoyed most of the Nolan movies I have seen and think he does an outstanding job, I’m not among the audience who has much interest in truly high brow “art for arts sake” type movies.
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u/johnthebread Aug 18 '26
(As a fan) I think he’s actually the steakhouse, you kind of know what you’re going to get and it’s going to be good. It’s not a Michelin-star restaurant where you ask the chef to surprise you with some crazy ingredient, it’s going to be a good piece of meat
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u/brandonandtheboyds Aug 18 '26
This is where I sit. Michael Bay makes burgers. Nolan makes nice steaks. And Spielberg (when he is ON ONE) makes Michelin star level steaks (as in Schindler’s List).
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u/SeparateBobcat1500 Aug 18 '26
Maybe he did until the mid-2000s, but Spielberg has become an Outback Steakhouse filmmaker since before Lincoln
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u/OttoMannkusser Aug 18 '26
Nolan movies feel like Disneyland to me. I see what you're doing, you did a very good job, spent a lot of money, and fantastic attention to detail. But it's still a hollow facsimile of the real thing.
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u/Prestigious_Plum9276 Aug 18 '26
Are you just realizing that movies aren't real life or are you just bad at analogies?
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u/WojackBorseman Aug 18 '26
What would "the real thing" be for Disneyland? Disneyworld?
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u/Kazzak_Falco Aug 18 '26 edited Aug 18 '26
Plenty of his fans seem to think he's making high brow art though. The discourse around the Odyssey (which I thought was fine but nothing special) was especially toxic with his fanboys dogpiling on anyone for delivering even the mildest criticisms.
Edit: even here, for this criticism, I'm now getting complaints that I haven't mentioned the culture war outrage around the casting (which is entirely irrelevant in this discussion) or for saying all Nolan fans are toxic (I tried to distinguish by using fanboys to describe just the ones showcasing toxic behavior, not to mention I tried to distinguish them by criticizing the behavior and not the fanbase as a whole). It's blind tribalism where I'm treated as an amalgamam of all people who criticized the film and therefore I must take responsibility for everything bad said about it. Thankfully they're only proving my point.
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u/TheCynicEpicurean Aug 18 '26
Nolanbros are definitely a thing and they're annoying af, because everything they say is wrapped in a smug feeling of being intellectually superior for thinking there has never been a better director.
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u/Kazzak_Falco Aug 18 '26
Exactly. It's not the disagreeing with criticisms part that's the most toxic, it's the constant snobbery towards anyone who as much as dislikes any aspect of the Odyssey. I haven't engaged with most of his films as I just don't find them interesting, but I would believe that the Odyssey isn't the first movie where they're reacting like this.
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u/flaming_burrito_ Aug 18 '26 edited Aug 18 '26
I mean, is he not? What is considered “high brow art”? If you can consistently make good movies that are culturally very relevant, are really good at cinematography, pull off huge practical effects that most other directors can’t, and your movies have iconic soundtracks, what is that called? Sure, the dialogue in his movies is not always the best, but I find it weird that Reddit tries to act like Nolan isn’t objectively really good at making movies and that everyone doesn’t drop everything to talk about them every time they come out.
Also, the brainless discourse coming from the right before the movie came out was way louder and more annoying than anything Nolan fanboys did.
Edit: Ok, before more people reply to me, I’m trying to tease out what people actually mean when they say high brow. My point is, the term is completely arbitrary. No one has a consistent or uniform definition for what they consider “high brow”, and often what they actually mean is either niche, or old enough that people don’t criticize it as much anymore. Not everything has to be super deep, complex, or even original. After all, what is the purpose of a movie if not to be an entertaining visual spectacle? Sometimes that’s all a movie needs to be.
There is a value to being able to communicate your art to a mass audience. You can be as technically proficient and creative as you want, if your art is hard to understand or is too abrasive, then your message will not be conveyed, and it probably won’t impact culture very much, if at all. Furthermore, being popular does not take away from the artistry of one’s work, sometimes things are just popular because they are really well made.
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u/Bertrand_Rose Aug 18 '26
>I mean, is he not? What is considered “high brow art”?
Usually something art house, or prestige or with little mainstream appeal, indulging in the art form itself.
> If you can consistently make good movies that are culturally very relevant, are really good at cinematography, pull off huge practical effects that most other directors can’t, and your movies have iconic soundtracks, what is that called?
A successful blockbuster director.
>Sure, the dialogue in his movies is not always the best, but I find it weird that Reddit tries to act like Nolan isn’t objectively really good at making movies and that everyone doesn’t drop everything to talk about them every time they come out.
He doesn't make objectively good movies, because no one does; objectivity should hold no authority in being the deciding factor, when judging film, or any art, for that matter.
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u/Wimperator Aug 18 '26
It is called a hollywood blockbuster, which cant and shouldnt be compared to smaller movies, that take a different apporach. Like dogtooth, mandy or offret.
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u/Professional_Bat9174 Aug 18 '26
It is funny that its the "Nolan Fanboys" being toxic around the Odyssey, because I literally only went to see the movie because of how fucking terrible the campaign against the movie was. The Odyssey hate campaign is toxic as fuck.
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u/sophisticated_alpaca Aug 19 '26
I agree, and also think that this is probably a good thing. He feels like the only one doing middlebrow well right now.
If Nolan understands one thing, it’s how to create a sense of momentum in a movie. Pacing. I think he’s actually really good at it, and most “highbrow” filmmakers are shit at it, because we’ve somehow got everybody convinced that an artistically serious movie can’t have like…plot movement.
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u/MyJohnFM Aug 18 '26
Nolan is high brow just like Taylor Swift is.
It's very popular and people who know nothing about cinema/music might think it's great.
That doesn't make it great tho.
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u/Ilostmyoldaccount_1 Aug 18 '26
https://reddit.com/link/p4do93f/video/aj519h0rf3kh1/player
Redditors calling Christopher Nolan overrated.
I don’t even disagree but at this point it’s not unpopular on this site.
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u/S1mongreedwell Aug 18 '26
Criticizing these guys for using practical effects is bonkers.
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u/ITriedSoHard419-68 Aug 18 '26
Practical effects are awesome and it’s great to see directors revisiting the art instead of spamming mediocre CGI everywhere, but good effects alone aren’t enough to carry a movie.
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u/S1mongreedwell Aug 18 '26
No, but it is always nice to see something real explode. I really enjoyed the Fall Guy and it was in no small part due to all the practical effects. It’s a bit of a novelty at this point.
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u/HK_Shooter_1301 Aug 19 '26
The “explosion” from Oppenheimer would like a word. Nolan would have been better served using the footage from the actual trinity test versus what we got.
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u/WhyIsThatImportant Aug 18 '26
I'm not a fan of Nolan or Bay, but I did notice OP in your breakdown that you have a tendency to favour plot, characterisation, and writing tropes, which oftentimes can be dismissed as a very surface-level way to approach film criticism.
Nolan has been pretty clear about his love for the technical aspects of cinema, so there are other ways people can enjoy them without pretension.
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u/papertrade1 Aug 18 '26
That would be okay, just like for Michael Bay. But Nolan is not put in the same category as Bay ( a filmmaker who just enjoys technical aspects, and an audience who does too ) , there is a real tendency to cite him in the company of important directors including Kubrick.
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u/Objective-Corgi-3527 Aug 18 '26
Because he made Memento, the Dark Knight, and Inception. His movies are all over the IMDB top 100 list, he didn't just trick people into liking them with a fog horn and by smashing a few toy cars together. These are genuinely people's favourite films that they talk about for years
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u/ackermann Aug 18 '26
Also The Prestige, my personal favorite of his
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u/Gonedric Aug 18 '26
The Prestige is Nolan’s best movie, hands down. Nothing has come close to it. Absolute masterpiece.
Number 2 is The Dark Knight, and both were co-written with his brother Jonathan. I’ve always liked Jonathan’s writing. He did Westworld too, although that one wasn’t entirely his. The first season was the best, partly because he wrote around 6 of the episodes.
Maybe Jonathan is actually the genius screenwriter here. Idk, what do you think?
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u/DontYaWishYouWereMe Aug 18 '26
I don't know if Michael Bay has ever tricked anyone into liking his movies either. He knows he's making movies that appeal to 13-year-old boys and he isn't ashamed of that
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u/FatherDotComical Aug 18 '26
Nolan made like the top couple of movies Reddit consistently talked and memed about for like a decades now, but suddenly they want to rewrite history and say that nobody actually liked or watched these films.
It's the same thing that happened with Avatar. Look I have no deep opinions on the film but I spoke with someone unironically saying that Avatar was a massive flop because nobody on reddit likes it. Okay but it still made over a billion dollars movie, same with Nolan films doing well. Somebody, Somewhere is watching these films.
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u/PiersPlays Aug 18 '26
It's cause Nolan is very clearly trying to establish himself as a moden Kubrik. The Odessey is his attempt to make a Sparticus. Interstellar is a "fixed" version of 2001: A Space Odessey that entirely misses the point of the film it's aping whilst falling flat on it's face in regard to it's own seperate ambitions. Nolan is a victim of the expertise bias. Because he really understands some parts of filmmaking at a very high level, he presumes that whatever his understanding might be of other parts is all there could possibly be to understand, when in reality he's only scratching the surface.
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u/PiersPlays Aug 18 '26
Nolan' only talent as a writer is for plot.
The assertion that analysing the writing is a very surface-level film criticism is absolutely wild. I've never understood why so many people think if the technical side of a film is good that's all that matters. That should just be a baseline expectation before you can look at anything that matters abkut whether a film is good or not. The fact that there's endless technically infantile films produced doesn't elevate the well-made ones artistically.
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u/Miselino Aug 18 '26
Who’s worse? Nolan bros or Anti Nolan bros?
You decide.
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u/Kyro_Official_ Aug 18 '26
Ive never actually seen a Nolan bro (at least not one whos obnoxious enough to make the fact they are one in your face) where as I see people act like Nolan is a hack all the time, so id say the latter.
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u/pic_carti_dielit Aug 20 '26
When you approach cinema on social media, everyone makes it seem that there is an incredible amount of Nolan fanboys that will consider him the GOAT, therefore it’s rightful to hate on Nolan. Except I’ve never came across Nolan fanboys as much as I see people hating on Nolan. I think that he’s a good director who has a great filmography, of course he’s not Kubrick or Scorsese. But I think that he’s actually overhated.
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u/Weed_O_Whirler Aug 18 '26
I'm pretty sure anto-Nolan bros are mostly just "I'm anti everything popular" and mostly in highschool.
I was one of those annoying kids in highschool but thankfully grew out of it.
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u/redtail_faye Aug 18 '26
Contrarians. They're too smart and cool to like the things other people think are smart and cool.
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u/Dennis_enzo Aug 18 '26
Calling broad appeal Hollywood blockbusters pretentious is quite a take.
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u/DoctorNo1661 Aug 18 '26
The irony of calling out Nolan amateurs "pretentious" while shitting on him to distance yourself from aforementioned amateurs, damn.
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u/DiabolicalDoctorN Aug 18 '26
Fully half of Steven Spielberg's filmography is forgettable mass-appeal drivel and that guy gets glazed like he invented cinema
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u/GameMusic Aug 18 '26
spielberg has always had people criticize him for mass appeal but his directing skill is amazing
which is exactly opposite what op is accusing
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u/inssidiouss Aug 18 '26
Yeah, even Disclosure Day for how underwhelming and mediocre it was, had a small handful of very well-done scenes, and fun long-takes with sweeping camera moves.
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u/throwaway-e-1 Aug 18 '26
So if he made more stuff a few people jerked themselves over then he would be deserved to be glazed so much ? Making "mass appeal drivel" that people hold in high regard and remember for decades is a way bigger accomplishment than oscarbait flops forgotten before the year is done.
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u/pic_carti_dielit Aug 20 '26
Spielberg is iconic because he created some of the most iconic movies of the last 50 years. In terms of pop culture phenomen, nothing comes close to Spielberg. Jaws, E.T, Jurassic Park, Indiana Jones… not to mention his most dramatic movies being absolute unanimous masterpieces in Schindler’s List and Saving Private Ryan.
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u/shaunika Aug 18 '26
Idk, pmuch everyone in the prestige, Coop in interstellar, Alfred, Bane, Harvey, The Joker, Odysseus, Antonius are compelling and good characters for me.
Nolan is a fantastic director, that doesnt make his movies excessively deep or cerebral.
His whole schtick in making a complicated high concept and boiling it down to easily digestable cinema.
Hes not a micheline Star Gourmet meal, but hes not junk either, hes a happy medium.
Hes like a nice steakhouse.
You'll get a well made meal that looks and tastes great, and youre getting exactly what you expect.
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u/the_it_family_man Aug 18 '26
They make compelling characters for an executive boardroom meeting. Human is the last attribute I'd use to describe them
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u/ManbadFerrara Aug 18 '26
Wes Anderson is the real Michael Bay for pretentious people in my book.
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u/Hotdogopolis Aug 18 '26
Nah, not at all. He's EXTREMELY pretentious, but he's a different kind.
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u/partizan_fields Aug 18 '26
Wes Anderson is Peter Greenaway for people who like the ukelele and don’t like Peter Greenaway.
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u/Old_Bloke420 Aug 18 '26
Peter Greenaway is Tarantino for intellectuals
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u/Melodic-Society-6496 Aug 18 '26
Tarantino is Scorcese for people who like mint chocolate ice cream.
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u/myothercarisaboson Aug 18 '26
I don't think you need to be a pretentious person to love pretentious cinema.
Well, I hope not... otherwise I've got some self-reflection to do, lol.
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u/EntertainmentQuick47 Aug 18 '26
I agree and disagree. One on hand he’s a masterful director BUT I do also think that he’s a bit too much of an action movie/spectacle filmmaker to be compared to guys like Kurosawa, Scorsese or Kubrick. But I do think he does deserve to be put in the same caliber as Steve Spielberg or Ridley Scott.
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u/GargamelLeNoir Aug 18 '26
I think the real genius is Jonathan Nolan. He's associated to most successes of Christopher and did the S-tier Person of Interest
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u/PiersPlays Aug 18 '26
It's really odd that they didn't just commit to the duo filmmaker thing like the Coens or the Wachowskis. Between the two of them they're much more than the sum of their parts.
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u/Gurglaren Aug 18 '26
I wouldn't go as far as you did, but I always considered Nolan an intellectual Michael Bay. Back when he made the Batman movies and Inception I didn't think of them as some deep masterpieces. They were popcorn flicks with substance.
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u/ExtentOld2417 Aug 19 '26
I’ll make a comparison to literature here. For the most part, classic literature becomes classic first because it is entertaining as hell. While saying something poignant or true. But almost all are technical masterpieces that engage the senses and emotions in service of bringing clarity to some idea. I think Nolan has a good track record with that. Bay not so much.
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u/knallpilzv2 Aug 18 '26
Funnily enough he also borrows from Bay, visually. His establishing shots are eerily bayish. The hyper-dramatic/traumatic closeups you see for example in the first Transformers when a grenade goes off and you see Megan Fox' and Shia Labeouf's face on the ground in slomo to like epic music...the framing and just overall visually it looks a lot like the close up of DiCaprio's face in the beginning of Inception.
The tonal whateverness. The Transformers films especially jump form serious pathos and stakes to dumb, nonsensical comedy with zero sophistication. Often multiple times within a scene. Nolan does the same shit. It's more about whatever information needs to be dealt out than it is about tonal consistency.
They both make very broish movies. Only that fans of Michael Bay films don't consider themselves smart or superior for liking his movies. :D
Also both Bay and Nolan really cut up their immersion. The editing can be jarringly quick and seems more about "cutting to the next awesome shot" rather than setting the scene, letting anything breathe or have the audience feel they're actually there.
I notices a few more striking similarities last time I watched Transformers, but these are the ones I remember off the top of my head.
Now, Nolan often does empley some genuinely clever trickery. But it never really amounts to anything. Because it's always based on lazy, convenient bullshit.
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u/rcsale Aug 18 '26
Nolan is so devious for tricking people into thinking he’s a good director by simply making good movies
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u/BastCity Aug 18 '26 edited Aug 18 '26
Firm agree. Downvoted.
Nolan is style over substance, and he can't write dialog; The Prestige is, in my opinion, his greatest work and that's only because his brother wrote a lot of the script.
Oppenheimer? Don't get me started. The worst best picture Oscar winner since Crash.
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u/PiersPlays Aug 18 '26
Prestige is very good. Momento is his best work because his brother wrote a lot of the script.
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u/Fortified_Phobia Aug 18 '26
Quickly realising I only like a Nolan film if his brother wrote the script lol
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u/OddVet Aug 18 '26
Prestige is based on an already acclaimed book written by Christopher Priest and then his brother wrote the script based on that, that's why it's so good.
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u/DontYaWishYouWereMe Aug 18 '26
I thought his best movie was Insomnia because it's the least Nolan-y Nolan movie
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u/KingAdamXVII Aug 18 '26
Michael Bay has never had a writing credit as far as I know. That right there is a difference between them.
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u/hem_claw Aug 18 '26
I guess it depends on what you classify as good cinema. What are some good (blockbuster) films in the last decade or so, by your metric?
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u/EggstaticAd8262 Aug 18 '26
This applies well to Odessey, but interstellar truly is a masterpiece
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u/ITriedSoHard419-68 Aug 18 '26
My thoughts exactly. I loved Interstellar and think Nolan’s style complemented the story very well, but OP just described pretty much everything wrong with Odyssey.
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u/Picassof Aug 21 '26
I actually used to make a similar comparison but not as a negative, more like Nolan is Bay done right
you're right he doesn't care about being as technical as Kubrick or any of the other directors he clearly idolizes, but that is a valid style, more gritty and experimental
Nolan never said his films are hard to follow, that's what fans say. I think, as in Inception and The Prestige, he makes his films quite simple to understand. I would also take a Memento over most films from most directors
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u/Electric-Sheepskin Aug 22 '26
I'm just glad to hear someone else say it for a change. I mean personally, I think his movies are technical marvels. Eye candy that you don't want to look away from, but what kills them for me is your point about characters: "cold, emotionless cardboard cut outs who exist purely to explain the plot rules to the audience."
I'm not sure I would put it exactly like that, but I haven't cared about what happens to any of his characters since Insomnia. I always have such high hopes when I go to see a Nolan movie, but I'm always checking my watch halfway through because I just don't care what happens to anybody. Obviously lots of people feel differently, but whatever it is about his characters that people like, it has zero resonance with me.
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u/OkAnywhere2052 Aug 18 '26
I don’t understand what the obsession is on Reddit to attack any movie that’s not a character driven movie.
You can have really great story/premise driven. I.e the titanic, very basic love story but the premise and the spectacle are what elevate it into something special. Same with avatar.
If you do not like story driven movies, that’s ok, but the way people act like it makes them somehow above it and regular “simple people” are hoodwinked by a bunch of explosions and noises… thats just not true. The odyssey is a wonderful story as emphasised by the fact it’s being told 2800 years after being written, and it resonates with people. It’s a story about the cost/sacrifice of war and that is a timeless message.
You not liking it is ok, but to just dismiss it simply cause it’s not too your taste is crazy. Not everybody wants to watch a 3 hour borefest of people monologuing their whole life stories.
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u/appleparkfive Aug 18 '26
I like this post a lot. It made me think about it. But ultimately, I disagree.
It's the intent behind something that matters, in terms of art. Even if the mechanisms are the same. I don't like Michael Bay movies because of the endless Hollywood cliches that he could easily omit. I like Nolan's movies because it's usually a blockbuster movie that's going to leave some level of impact. Yes, he absolutely doesn't write great characters. But the actual cinematography and visual direction is very impactful.
I think just brushing it all away and saying "they're pretensious" is pretty goofy, though. That's like walking backwards from the starting point of "I don't like his movies, therefore...". It's fine if you're not into it, but if only pretensious people like Nolan, he wouldn't be making those box office numbers.
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u/ErosDarlingAlt Aug 18 '26 edited Aug 18 '26
Way overblown opinion. You're correct that Nolan is not a perfect director, but he's far better than Michael Bay. You're just hating for the sake of hating.
The Odyssey, Oppenheimer, Inception, TDK, Batman Begins, all of these are critically acclaimed master pieces. Nobody said you have to like them, but saying they're terrible comes across as you just seething.
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u/Turok5757 Aug 18 '26
I don't think you really understand either director outside of their internet-peddled stereotypes if that comparison makes sense to you.
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u/close-encounters13 Aug 18 '26
The insecurity of Nolan haters is genuinely very amusing. They can’t simply hold a minority view, they have to concoct this grand narrative in order to explain why they are big smart boys and everyone else is a faker/idiot.
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u/No_Eggplant_3189 Aug 18 '26 edited Aug 18 '26
Im actually really affected by—and highly value—the tone and pacing of movies. Nolan (and Bay) is very generic in this department.
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u/Correct_Look2988 Aug 19 '26
AI post or engagement farming at it's finest. I saw this exact same post word for word in the Cinema reddit earlier today.
This is what bothers me most about the current climate of entertainment culture. An unpopular opinion can turn into a popular opinion just because it's being posted so frequently people start to believe that something most like actually sucks.
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u/Creepy-Debate897 Aug 21 '26
I have seen many reddit comments say "Nolan makes movies for dumb people to feel smart" And I agree, its a common take. Inception in particular is not deep it is pretenious twaddle.
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Aug 22 '26
Maybe you just learned that Michael Bay deserves less shit than he gets. He makes movies that people like rather than feeding his own ego and making movies he thinks people should like. Nothing could be less pretentious. Nolan isn't that different.
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u/flouncingfleasbag Aug 24 '26
I could not agree more strongly, OP. I share every one of the bullet point opinions you have outlined in your post I just don't bother voicing them because it's like yelling into the void. Comforting to know I am not the only one.
I feel the same way about Paul Thomas Anderson- hack.
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u/qualityvote2 Aug 18 '26 edited Aug 18 '26
u/Melodic-Society-6496, your post does fit the subreddit!