Do you Think we Could Ever get a Tigray Flag Emoji on Phones?

[u/renpyslamjamming]

edit to clarify I do not have a decided stance on if Tigray should be independent or not, I don't know enough about what answer is the best outcome for Tigrayans. I just want the emoji.

Obviously this is not super important or anything, but I keep getting frustrated that there is no Tigray emoji on phones in the default emojis. I wanna show my Tigrayan pride more easily in spots where you can only put limited text and emojis 🔴🟡 (I mean I know a lot of people use the circles but :P).

😅 I promise I actually talk a lot about serious issues in real life and this is not a particularly serious issue lol. I've been informing friends and honestly anyone who will listen about what's going on in Tigray based on updates I hear from family.

I guess I just wanted to hear if other people are also a little annoyed that there isn't a dedicated emoji for it in the phone when you wanna use one for a little bit of flair in your text.

[u/Personal_Theme_7582]

Not unless Tigray got recognized as an independent nation

[u/Pure_Cardiologist759]

No. We are Ethiopians! We’re simply being governed by criminals and living with a mindset of ethnic hatred because of the dispute with Amhara nationalists, whose propaganda and actions have caused immense suffering for the people of Tigray.
Now look at the irony, HGDEF who played a major role in pushing this division and were part of the reason many Tigrayans started calling for independence, are today in Tigray fighting alongside the TPLF?

So nah we’re going back to being proud Ethiopians AND proud Tigrayans. And no matter how many downvotes i get or how many people comment “don’t say we” i guarantee some of you will come back to this statement tomorrow.

Have you already forgotten people saying, “We have no choice but to fight Abiy with Fano and Eritrea”? Seriously? Then accept the reality: Tigray is Ethiopia!

If the TPLF wins this war and then pushes for independence, we are in deep shit. Tigray will not suddenly become successful because we draw another border. We could end up setting ourselves back for generations.

The same people pushing division today may be the reason we regret it tomorrow. United we stand, divided we fall. That’s the reality fam. Use this instead 🇻🇳 and leave Tigray alone! This will be forever our flag

[u/Electrical_Study_341 → u/Pure_Cardiologist759]

We’re simply being governed by criminals and living with a mindset of ethnic hatred because of the dispute with Amhara nationalists, whose propaganda and actions have caused immense suffering for the people of Tigray.

Elaborate more on "living with a mindset of ethnic hatred".

Now look at the irony, HGDEF who played a major role in pushing this division and were part of the reason many Tigrayans started calling for independence, are today in Tigray fighting alongside the TPLF?

Well when Tigray and Eritrea face a joint existential threat this is the natural conclusion especially when not doing so means Tigray will be isolated with zero allies whether it be those bordering Tigray or the IC (More here).

So nah we’re going back to being proud Ethiopians AND proud Tigrayans. And no matter how many downvotes i get or how many people comment “don’t say we” i guarantee some of you will come back to this statement tomorrow.

Yes, you're speaking for yourself and the few others willing not to accept the reality that staying in Ethiopia is only harmful for Tigray in the long term. What will it take to open your eyes? Another 102 years of oppression and back to back injustices with more than a million dead or a whole nother genocide to get the point across?

Have you already forgotten people saying, “We have no choice but to fight Abiy with Fano and Eritrea”? Seriously? Then accept the reality: Tigray is Ethiopia!

Oh yes, completely sound logic. Is that why the EPLF which fought alongside TPLF and other organizations inside Ethiopia against the Derg regime went on to lead an independent Eritrea? TPLF, Fano and the Eritrean govt simply have a shared threat rn against them plus the communities they claim to represent and have formed a tactical alliance as a result of this, nothing more and nothing less just like those formed during the war against the Derg. You're projecting your own thoughts onto it that have nothing to do with it.

If the TPLF wins this war and then pushes for independence, we are in deep shit. Tigray will not suddenly become successful because we draw another border. We could end up setting ourselves back for generations.

Pursuing independence right away may not be the practical thing to do but staying in Ethiopia guarantees that Tigray will be in "deep shit" in the long-term based on Tigray's actual documented experience being part of modern Ethiopia.

The same people pushing division today may be the reason we regret it tomorrow. United we stand, divided we fall. That’s the reality fam. Use this instead 🇻🇳 and leave Tigray alone! This will be forever our flag

Good way to flip the blame on Tigrayans. The majority of Tigrayans that believe in independence did so after realizing that remaining in Ethiopia will bring Tigray nothing but harm and any benefit accrued will not be worth it. There were even plenty that believed in it by the 2020 elections after having seen the genocidal hatred build up against Tigray to that point and there are way more following the genocide.

The people of Tigray may be exhausted from war and as a consequence of the genocide plus Abiy's semi-successful policy of trying to break their spirit following Pretoria but it doesn't mean that in the long-term people won't be asking for independence once Tigray's other practical needs are met.

The only way independence sentiments could be destroyed following Tigray's recovery from the genocide is for their to be full acknowledgement, accountability and justice within Ethiopia when it comes to the Tigray genocide and I have a bridge to sell you if you believe this'll ever happen without Tigray decisively beating literally every armed force that didn't stand with it during the first phase of the genocidal war (2020-2022) and being able to remove the hatred like how the allies had done so in Nazi Germany which necessitated great measures that Tigray may not be able to do so on its own.

[u/renpyslamjamming → u/Electrical_Study_341]

Thank you so much for your comment 💓, very insightful. I do think the perspective "this is how we are being treated as a state under Ethiopia already so long term how is staying part of Ethiopia safe" makes sense. I think whatever makes the people suffering in Tigray safe in the immediate is most important, but a long term goal of independance does make sense with that thought.

[u/Tigray-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

No trolling behavior, especially about the genocide.

[u/azarlai → u/Electrical_Study_341]

First. 102 years of oppression? Second, how about the atrocities committed by Tigray during the war? Will all regions apologize to each other or all armed forces disarm? What?

[u/Electrical_Study_341 → u/azarlai]

First. 102 years of oppression?

I had a conversation about this with someone else underneath this post. You can read my two comments here ( 1, 2 ).

Second, how about the atrocities committed by Tigray during the war?

War crimes and genocide are not the same thing and Tigrayans throughout the first phase of the genocidal war were calling for independent unlimited access to all areas while the other side were predictably doing all they can to block this because they know they were guilty of genocide. For more on this, you should read the first section of this page here.

[u/azarlai → u/Electrical_Study_341]

Yes and I do not agree. This is sad to say but Ethiopia is a multi cultural nation and we’ve united in struggle time and time again which is why it’s necessary to continue to for our state to survive. Like you said, nearly all of Ethiopia fell on class oppression and on the starvation I already asked. Can you expand on trying to block it? I will read what you’ve linked though thank you. Regardless, I think the pp should be dismantled or at least have new leadership but multinational federalism is not the issue. If this happens, restorative justice should be applied to all, not only exclusively to Tigray for the genocide although yes I do believe that should be fully adressed and served

[u/renpyslamjamming → u/Pure_Cardiologist759]

I'm sorry I did not mean to come off as a seperatist, I personally do not have a decided stance on what is the best or safest option. I simply want to rep the Tigray emoji.

[u/JDHPH → u/renpyslamjamming]

I don't think your leaders want to separate , they just want to rule in Addis.

[u/Electrical_Study_341 → u/JDHPH]

I don't think your leaders want to separate

TPLF have never been a secessionist group and have always pushed back against secessionist sentiments within Tigray as "narrow nationalism". However, the TPLF are not Tigray but merely a political party that has lost a lot of clout within Tigray (1). All the opposition within Tigray firmly support independence because they rightly see it as Tigray's only way to guarantee its long term security and interests while some changed to that position as a result of the genocide opening their eyes.

Right now, Tigray's population have way more priorities (Recovering from the genocide, ensuring Tigray's safety, etc.) than looking for independence but it stands to reason that once those priorities are met that independence will be popularly and openly supported once more. I doubt in those circumstances that TPLF would be able to pull the same bs excuse of "narrow nationalism" when faced with the combined experience of the genocide and Tigray's 102 years of suffering in Ethiopia before that.

The only way secessionism could disappear within Tigray as a serious force permanently would be through justice, reconciliation and accountability regarding the genocide happening within Ethiopia which is nigh impossible.

[u/Stuff_606 → u/Electrical_Study_341]

What were the 102 years of oppression that Tigrayans faced before the genocide? Who committed it, and did they specifically oppress Tigrayans for 102 years or other tribes as well?

If the only way for you to see Tigray remaining with Ethiopia is through justice, reconciliation, and accountability regarding the genocide, and that is not given and Tigray secedes, how will it initially manage being in between two “hostile” nations?

Did the desire for Tigrayans to become independent begin in Meles zenawi time, when TPLF was working with EPLF? Was TPLF originally for independence, and then became against it, wanting to rule Ethiopia instead? Or was it the genocide that really solidified the idea of Tigrayan independence?

And unrelated to the rest of the questions- what do you know or think about when Meles Zenawi was ruling? When TPLF was in charge, how they governed the country, what do you think about it?

[u/Electrical_Study_341 → u/Stuff_606]

What were the 102 years of oppression that Tigrayans faced before the genocide? Who committed it, and did they specifically oppress Tigrayans for 102 years or other tribes as well?

It was from 1889 to 1991 and there were two forms of oppression that went on during this time. Class based oppression which most civilians from every nation within Ethiopia went through and there was national oppression which the non-Amhara within the country went through. The ones responsible were the Amhara elites (particularly those based in Addis Ababa) and the pseudo-ethiopianists.

Toward the end of the multinational federalism section on this page here you can find a thorough breakdown but to add to that Tigrayans had more than a million of their population murdered via weaponized starvation in the 80s and 100,000 in the year 1958.

These two posts are also relevant (1, 2)

If the only way for you to see Tigray remaining with Ethiopia is through justice, reconciliation, and accountability regarding the genocide, and that is not given and Tigray secedes, how will it initially manage being in between two “hostile” nations?

*Tigray also borders Sudan and Sudan is not a hostile nation as it was the only one of Tigray's neighbors to treat Tegaru like human beings. Ethiopia and Eritrea committed genocide against Tigray while it was part of Ethiopia so if they're going to be hostile anyway, Tigray would be far better facing off their hostility as an independent country rather than a vulnerable part of a hostile country.

Tigray and Eritrea's relationship also doesn't have to remain permanently hostile, the irrational hatred Eritrea had for Tigray has only harmed both nations and the genocide Eritrea committed together with Ethiopia against Tigray has predictably resulted in both Tigray and Eritrea being targeted together by Ethiopia forcing a highly controversial alleged tactical alliance between the TPLF and Eritrea's govt (1).

Did the desire for Tigrayans to become independent begin in Meles zenawi time, when TPLF was working with EPLF? Was TPLF originally for independence, and then became against it, wanting to rule Ethiopia instead? Or was it the genocide that really solidified the idea of Tigrayan independence?

The TPLF as an organization has never supported independence. The first manifesto is commonly cited as a rebuttal but the truth based on all that was credibly written on the TPLF, is that the first manifesto was quickly rejected by the TPLF leadership and it was individuals that acted out and released it without the permission of the party. The TPLF's vision was always to bring forth self determination and fix Ethiopia.

For example, toward the end of the Second Woyane many TPLF fighters returned to Tigray after expelling Derg from Tigray as they believed independence was the best solution for Tigray and they were also unhappy that other groups (excluding Eritrea) weren't offering up the same sacrifices in the struggle against Derg. The TPLF leadership had to pause fighting and convince them that the Derg regime had to be completely defeated or they'd be a problem plus that seeking an independent Tigray would be "narrow nationalism" and it'd be better to fix Ethiopia's core problems.

Also, the TLF were an organization that sought Tigray's independence but they were fairly irrelevant as they were merely a proxy of the ELF and the TPLF defeated them due to both this and their authoritarian leadership reportedly committing crimes against their own members (+ possibly Tigrayan civilians I don't remember all the details).

The support for independence has existed at varying levels within Tigray in response to how Ethiopia treated Tigray but it was really the genocide that made it really take off and it was already becoming significant in response to the genocidal hatred publicly built up in Ethiopia in preparation for the Tigray genocide.

And unrelated to the rest of the questions- what do you know or think about when Meles Zenawi was ruling? When TPLF was in charge, how they governed the country, what do you think about it?

Meles was better than Abiy and his vision was great but he was deeply flawed in how he tried to execute it. I broke this down more in these two comments (1 , 2).

If you're interested in in-depth research and reading, I recommend that you go through the resources on this subreddit's wiki here. The reading list in particular will provide the most amount of good quality information but the introductory materials section would be my recommended starting point and the other sections are pretty good too as a supplementary.

[u/Stuff_606 → u/Electrical_Study_341]

Thank you for your response.

So the 102 years of oppression was the Amharas against the rest of Ethiopia, not specifically against Tigray? I imagine that Somalis, Oromos, etc., would also have horror stories regarding what Amharas did to them during this time period?

I know about the intentional starvation in the 80s but never heard of what happened in 1958, I will read about it.

I’ve seen the video of that Amhara kid in the 50s. He was so embarrassing. And the link with what Haile Selassie said about how people who have a little get greedy and it’s good for people to starve is so sad. He is idolized more abroad than anything. He did a lot of harm to people.

My bad, Tigray does border Sudan. That’s true and ok. And Ethiopia is currently supporting the RSF and working for UAE. So honestly a union between Sudan and Tigray would be nice, but not realistic anytime soon with what’s going on in both places.

What is the irrational hatred Eritrea had for Tigray? When, and why do you think it’s irrational? Also, why would Eritrea helping Ethiopia to attack Tigray predictably result in Ethiopia attacking both Eritrea and Tigray? I get that politics is dirty and people flip and switch sides all the time, but you said predictably and I want to understand the context behind that.

What was the expectation exactly in the second woyane? TPLF and EPLF rolled into Addis on tanks and took over. They clearly had control, more so tplf in Ethiopia specifically. What could other groups have done more of, as they were also suffering and recovering from Derg?

And ok, so the genocide is what really solidified this sentiment for independence, along with a tense history with the Amhara people anyway for at least 102 years (which applies to other tribes in Ethiopia as well). Would you say it’s mainly the younger generation or also the older generation that is now seeking independence? I can imagine that some of the older generation still thinks it’s a narrow nationalism while the younger ones are more activists who want an independent Tigray. All I know is that Tigray is land locked and small. I’m not sure what resources they have but I skimmed over a link that discussed some with wheat and gold and reserves and tourism for Axum. It’s possible.

Your comments 1 & 2 about meles sound drastically different from what I’ve heard about him before. By your words, he sounds “good.” Most Ethiopians I know say he was the worst until Abiy came, now they may change their stance but Meles was pretty bad according to many of them, including his ethnic federal system. I heard that it was necessary for him to do that bc tplf was small and in order to control all of Ethiopia he had to divide and conquer with the ethnic system. Which set Ethiopia backwards as well.

I saved this subreddit’s wiki. I’m interested in going more in depth, and I appreciate you taking the time to answer these questions. You seem very knowledgeable.

[u/Electrical_Study_341 → u/Stuff_606]

So the 102 years of oppression was the Amharas against the rest of Ethiopia, not specifically against Tigray? I imagine that Somalis, Oromos, etc., would also have horror stories regarding what Amharas did to them during this time period?

*Amhara elites. The average Amhara went through class based oppression and didn't hold power even if they did not suffer through national oppression. Yes, most if not all nations within Ethiopia (as well as Eritrea which chose to leave) had endured all forms of oppression during that time. Also, the pseudo-ethiopianists shouldn't be overlooked as they continued the policy of national oppression in the name of unity despite being made up of a much more mixed group (E.g. Derg).

And the link with what Haile Selassie said about how people who have a little get greedy and it’s good for people to starve is so sad. He is idolized more abroad than anything. He did a lot of harm to people.

The quotes were from people that worked under Haile Selassie that idolized him while hiding from the Derg regime. That entire book is really good and I recommend it if you want to learn more about his reign.

I made a review here.

So honestly a union between Sudan and Tigray would be nice, but not realistic anytime soon with what’s going on in both places.

Nobody in Tigray or Sudan wishes for their nations to unify into one unless you merely mean for them to have a permanently good relationship as two separate countries.

What is the irrational hatred Eritrea had for Tigray? When, and why do you think it’s irrational? Also, why would Eritrea helping Ethiopia to attack Tigray predictably result in Ethiopia attacking both Eritrea and Tigray? I get that politics is dirty and people flip and switch sides all the time, but you said predictably and I want to understand the context behind that.

Anti-Tigrayan hatred and sentiment was artificially and unnecessarily added to Eritrean nationalism in the 1960s out of deep insecurity. During the border war and the time following that up to the genocide, it continued to grow via the fuelling by Eritrea's govt as well as many in the diaspora. I recommend that you read through this article (1) and then move through all the resources here.

If Ethiopia had hypothetically managed to completely eliminate Tigray during the first phase of the genocidal war (2020-2022) then Eritrea would've become the next target. It was a marriage based on nothing but shared genocidal hatred toward Tigray and Isaias let this blind him to the reality that the same genocidal groups he sided with against Tigray have always wanted nothing more than to annex Eritrea into a Ethiopia with zero self determination and one of the key things they (pseudo-ethiopianists + Amhara nationalists) ironically had as a reason for hating Tigray was the perception that it was through Tigrayans that Eritrea was able to gain independence and it was through Tigrayans that national oppression was able to come to an end.

What could other groups have done more of, as they were also suffering and recovering from Derg?

The sentiment of the TPLF fighters that returned to Tigray (Before then returning to the battlefield after being convinced against this and the other overlapping reasons ,etc. as I elaborated more earlier) following passing through Amhara areas is that Tigrayans were providing a far greater sacrifice while those that'd benefit were taking the easy road and this feeling was probably intensified by the fact that Tigray was far harder hit than them by the Derg and Tigray's population was much smaller.

Your comments 1 & 2 about meles sound drastically different from what I’ve heard about him before. By your words, he sounds “good.” Most Ethiopians I know say he was the worst until Abiy came, now they may change their stance but Meles was pretty bad according to many of them, including his ethnic federal system. I heard that it was necessary for him to do that bc tplf was small and in order to control all of Ethiopia he had to divide and conquer with the ethnic system. Which set Ethiopia backwards as well.

I wouldn't say my comments painted him to be good but that he is clearly a very mixed figure with both good and bad aspects to him. Most Ethiopians that don't like Meles don't like him not because of multi-national federalism but because he didn't implement it as much as he should've (I elaborated it fully on why and how in the two comments I shared earlier).

The Ethiopians that don't like multi-nationalism are actually in the minority as it's only pseudo-ethiopianists and Amhara nationalists that fall into this line of thinking. However, despite being a minority opinion, this view is overrepresented in the Ethiopian diaspora due to the communities that predominately hold these views being overrepresented in the Ethiopian diaspora.

For more on multinational federalism, you can check out the multinational federalism section on this page here.

I’m interested in going more in depth, and I appreciate you taking the time to answer these questions.

No problem and also, I highly recommend that you read How to Read a Book: The Classic Guide to Intelligent Reading by Mortimer J. Adler and Charles Van Doren. This book is great when it comes to improving reading and studying skills. This channel here draws a lot from the book so it'd be worthwhile checking it out if you're interested. Also, if you can find articles on critical reading (which the book also covers) I'd recommend going through them.

This would all be useful given the fact that there's stark differences in perspectives and narratives when you're looking at Tigray, Ethiopia and Eritrea generally and it'd be easy to get confused when reading through diverse resources that frequently clash assuming that you'll be doing research from the other perspectives too.

[u/Stuff_606 → u/Electrical_Study_341]

Thank you again for your response and for the links and recommendations.

Yeah I’m Eritrean and I really appreciate hearing your perspective. There are always two sides to a story, I don’t often hear the Tigrayan side. I like this article. https://www.tghat.com/2026/02/18/why-eritrea-committed-genocide-in-tigray/?amp=1 I think there may be some things that are not accurate but a lot of it also really makes sense to me. I know the anti-Tigrayan sentiment was alive when my grandfather was alive, and he was born in 1905 or something. My father told me that his father told him as a child that there is a winding road that leads to Massawa and it’s called the “heart of Tigray” because it’s winding like a snake. So that negative sentiment was there for a long time, and the article does say it was around the Italian time, which honestly makes sense as my grandfather experienced colonization too. It never made sense to me how people who live right next to each other, speak the same language, have the same genetics, have the same culture, same history, are treated like different people. It’s just politics and brainwashing. If the Italians had anything to do with it, meaning that before the Italians, there wasn’t this sentiment, then it’s also colonialism. But I don’t know that for certain.

I’m diaspora, and I’ve always gotten the sentiment from talking with Ethiopians that in Ethiopia, Tigrayans are the “elites” in that they have the strongest claim to the Abyssinia Ethiopia, and during monarchy times, they were often in power or in positions of power over other groups, along with the Amharas.

Up until 2012, they were still doing pretty good, and some might say even better than others during this time bc of that ethnic based system stuff with meles zenawi, who is pretty unpopular amongst all the non Tigrayan Ethiopians who lived in Ethiopia while he ruled that I’ve ever spoken to for this reason. But from what you’re saying, the genocide is really strengthening Tigray independence sentiment instead of any sentiment of Ethiopia being your country first. I understand why that sentiment exists after a genocide. But am I wrong for thinking that Tigrayans had or have that reputation or status for longer than things have started to turn negative (2020-present, or 2012-present)? When I talk to Oromos, Somalis, even some Amharas, they all talk about Tigrayans as though Tigrayans think they are better than them? It’s like there’s this unspoken hierarchy.

[u/Electrical_Study_341 → u/Stuff_606]

I think there may be some things that are not accurate but a lot of it also really makes sense to me.

Yes, the article doesn't paint the full picture imo which is why I shared this other page here since via reading, comparing and contrasting them, it provides a much more well rounded picture. I highly recommend that you read through all of them as they'll answer your questions about the informally named heart of Tigray road (I recommend you start off with the Yohannes book for all the missing context on that) and on how two people from the same ethno-linguistic group developed two separate and distinct identities.

I’m diaspora, and I’ve always gotten the sentiment from talking with Ethiopians that in Ethiopia, Tigrayans are the “elites” in that they have the strongest claim to the Abyssinia Ethiopia, and during monarchy times, they were often in power or in positions of power over other groups, along with the Amharas. Up until 2012, they were still doing pretty good, and some might say even better than others during this time bc of that ethnic based system stuff with meles zenawi, who is pretty unpopular amongst all the non Tigrayan Ethiopians who lived in Ethiopia while he ruled that I’ve ever spoken to for this reason. When I talk to Oromos, Somalis, even some Amharas, they all talk about Tigrayans as though Tigrayans think they are better than them? It’s like there’s this unspoken hierarchy.

I'm also part of the diaspora but based on all that I've read and heard as well as info I've gotten from people back home, I have the following to say.

Due to the TPLF leading the EPRDF coalition, there was the incorrect perception (which was also definitely maliciously pushed through media as part of the preparation for the Tigray genocide) that Tigrayans as a people were treated as first class citizens while the rest were treated as second class citizens. That is completely false. The TPLF (The rest of the EPRDF coalition were also corrupt and did the same thing but TPLF and Tigrayans as a whole are singled out) and those linked with them in Addis may have been getting special treatment (They were probably mostly Tigrayan given most of the TPLF are Tigrayan which would directly feed the perception that it was ALL Tigrayans which is just not true) but the average Tigrayan was living just like the average person in other parts of Ethiopia and unlike the 102 year period of oppression, the elites weren't pushing their own culture and language down on people via national oppression, etc.

The Somali population had a particularly terrible time under the rule of Meles and their grievance against him is valid as I had shared in the two comments I linked on Meles way further up this thread.

Tigrayans were proud Ethiopians in spite of the 102 years period of oppression because Tigray had contributed much to Ethiopia throughout the ages, paid heavy and bloody sacrifices to protect Ethiopia and Tigray uniquely held a position in Ethiopian history as its source (Looking specifically at the political entities that were influenced by and claimed Axum i.e. Zagwe Kingdom + Ethiopian empire and to a lesser extent modern day Ethiopia since its multinational structure changes things since other political entities with no relation to Axum are also claimed by modern Ethiopia) via being the direct descendants of Axum. They were also proud of the history of the Second Woyane which culminated in the end of national oppression for all in Ethiopia and were proud of the GERD and the development within Ethiopia.

When you say monarchy times are you referring to Menelik onwards because from 1889 until 1974, Tigrayans were absolutely an oppressed group. They went through deep national oppression like the rest of the non-Amhara in the country as well as class based oppression like everyone else, including the average Amhara, in the country. I already detailed this in the links I shared earlier.

If you're talking about prior to the 102 years of oppression (1889-1991) then yes, Tigrayans and the rest of the Habesha (Amhara + Tigrinya speakers in what is now in Eritrea) were more privileged than the other groups in the country and there was oppression toward these other groups but the average Habesha civilian still went through class based oppression.

[u/azarlai → u/Electrical_Study_341]

The starvation was not ethnically targeted unless I’ve misunderstood your comment. Also I like how you acknowledge how it was Amhara elites and pseudo Ethiopianists and I’m not accusing you of this but I feel like this can lead to anti Amhara sentiment

[u/Electrical_Study_341 → u/azarlai]

The starvation was not ethnically targeted unless I’ve misunderstood your comment.

I understand that Amhara areas in Wollo also went through it but combined with the context and the rest of the history, it was absolutely targeted on that basis and can be considered part of the national oppression non-Amhara endured.

Also I like how you acknowledge how it was Amhara elites and pseudo Ethiopianists and I’m not accusing you of this but I feel like this can lead to anti Amhara sentiment

You should be aware that Amhara elites and pseudo-ethiopianists have often hid behind accusations by saying they're against the entire Amhara community when this isn't the case and they've been quite successful in spreading that sentiment unfortunately. It's like when western powers are called out for the wrongs they committed by people from lands they once colonized and racists twist that to say it's anti-white and convince others to become racist through such rhetoric or when modern western imperialism is called out and instead of having solidarity people from those countries support it because they're brainwashed by the same elites exploiting them that they're (regular people) being targeted by that rhetoric instead of the elites.

[u/azarlai → u/Electrical_Study_341]

I do think it may be targeted in that there were government policies that made it worse and resettlement programs but why the famine was so disastrous was because of the drought, civil war and most of all misallocation of resources. Also, not only wollo suffered but also begemder ,and then gojjam due to the drought. I have not seen that claim and do not think the elites would claim they were against Amharas, they would quickly lose support. I do heavily agree and hate the last example you gave though but do not think it applies to Amhara elites, if it did then they should be held accountable probably. Also, I think you’re heading toward an anti Amhara sentiment if that’s the path you’re going down, not saying you are though.

[u/Electrical_Study_341 → u/azarlai]

I have not seen that claim and do not think the elites would claim they were against Amharas, they would quickly lose support.

Literally every time people speak about the experience of national oppression their respective people faced under the Amhara elites and the pseudo-ethiopianists in the time frame I shared, there's always been people arguing back that it's anti-amhara rhetoric. If anything, what's anti-amhara is shielding what the national oppressors had done with regular Amhara civilians most of which went through class-based oppression like everyone even if they hadn't gone through national oppression.

Also, I think you’re heading toward an anti Amhara sentiment if that’s the path you’re going down, not saying you are though.

I'm against persecution of the Amhara people and support their self determination as well as their struggle against Abiy's atrocities. However, I will never support the terrible things done in their name by modern Amhara nationalists such as the Tigray genocide which of course includes the ethnic cleansing, resettling and occupation of Western Tigray (1). Amhara has great potential for success but the mainstream form of Amhara nationalism completely prevents that as it's just as bad as pseudo-ethiopianism (1) and does not serve the interests of Amhara civilians even if it claims too.

[u/renpyslamjamming → u/JDHPH]

Are you talking to me or them? Cause like I said, I don't have a stance on seperatism, I don't know enough about this aspect of the politics.

[u/Electrical_Study_341 → u/renpyslamjamming]

Are you talking to me or them? Cause like I said, I don't have a stance on seperatism, I don't know enough about this aspect of the politics.

Secession is a perfectly valid belief and many Tigrayans believe it would be in Tigray's long-term interests. The primary division within those who believe in secession is on what time would be most suitable for Tigray's secession.

The exhausted state of Tigrayans following the genocide and Abiy's semi-successful campaign of breaking Tigray's spirit following Pretoria has also contributed to people focusing on Tigray's immediate needs but it doesn't mean seceding won't be seen as Tigray's primary concern by many once all of that is over unless justice, accountability and reconciliation regarding the genocide happen within Ethiopia which I doubt will ever happen.

I found a post on this subreddit here that I recommend you read through as an entry point into looking at this aspect of the politics.

[u/renpyslamjamming → u/Electrical_Study_341]

Thank you so much! I really appreciate the perspective and willingness to educate.

[u/Electrical_Study_341 → u/renpyslamjamming]

Thank you so much! I really appreciate the perspective and willingness to educate.

No problem and if you're into reading I recommend that you check out this subreddit's reading list here. If you're interested in a specific topic I can recommend a book but the reading guide and the page sections should help you navigate otherwise.

[u/JDHPH → u/renpyslamjamming]

Both. It's nothing new, all these people are just playing a game of winner takes all. Which is ethiopia.

[u/renpyslamjamming → u/JDHPH]

If it helps explain it better, I am a diaspora, so I did not think about the direct political consequences, sorry. My mindset is from a place of wanting to speak to people who still think there are no metropolitan cities in Africa lol.

I also just want my grand-aunts and grand-uncles to stop dying in this constant devastating violence.

[u/JDHPH → u/renpyslamjamming]

I get it. Just saying these people or "leaders" have been playing politics with the lives of innocent people for decades. The goal is power. It's pure greed and selfishness with a whole lot of envy.

[u/renpyslamjamming → u/JDHPH]

That's right. My family history includes my Tigrayan parent having to flee as a teenager in the 70s due to a war that stretched at least 5 years, they had to stop going to school, soldiers would show up and put them at gunpoint and rummage through their house, they lost electricity for many months, and from just outside the city limits they could hear the shooting and fighting. It's all so sad.

Thank you both for sharing your perspectives. I don't mind hearing people's perspectives even if it's two people with the opposite stance, its nice to learn what the Tigrayan community is thinking. There's a lot of diaspora where I live but, we haven't really gone out to local community events or anything like that yet. Sadly missed the local Ashenda event I saw.

[u/Dry_Lengthiness9486 → u/Pure_Cardiologist759]

It's giving PP bot straight out of Addis lol. I don't believe you are Tigrayan. Even Tigrayans who hold the perspective that it's better long term to remain in Ethiopia don't regard sepratists as a product of ethnic hatred, everyone understands it's because Ethiopia and Eritrea have committed a genocide on our people and we're now in a weird position since the world doesn't recognize it. You cannot tell people to go back to being proud Ethiopians when they have every reason not to. Speak for yourself and leave everyone else alone, you deserve all the downvotes.

[u/Pure_Cardiologist759 → u/Dry_Lengthiness9486]

Yea yea, it’s giving PP 😂 If this was 6 years ago, it’d be giving banda vibes etc etc. You’ve exhausted all your bullying tactics. Sit back and enjoy the shitshow that both TPLF and PP thugs are putting on.
Your downvotes and statements don’t represent the entire Tigrayan population, just as mine don’t but i speak on behalf of Tigrayans who think like me and trust me we are more than you think. The fact that Tigrayans are fighting each other right now, with sons fighting their own fathers, basically tells you everything!
So don’t act like PP’s actions mean nobody feels Ethiopian anymore. Haile Selassie did the same thing, and so did Mengistu. We remained in Ethiopia and became even more Ethiopian than we were before. Downvotes don’t count anything to me it’s the people who reads the reality and truth!

[u/Dry_Lengthiness9486 → u/Pure_Cardiologist759]

If you want to be a proud Ethiopian good for you. Great even. But you cannot go telling everyone else that we have to be proud Ethiopians. Wanting accountability and potentially a new path for your own people is not the reason why we have an active war happening once again. This war is purely for the purpose of advancing Abiy or Isaias interests regardless of the costs to their own or our people. Saying that practically places blame on Tigrayans for their own genocide, and is a cheap cop out that doesn't solve anything and will not guarentee the peace I that everyone wants.

PP's poor treatment of other Ethiopians in addition to how Mengistu used to run Ethiopia is not the same as the 2020-2022 Tigray war. Even our elders who lived and survived Mengistu themselves can tell you that. Mengistu did not have two national armies and a bunch of rag tag militias invade and genocide Tigray with the help of drone technology. I dare you to find me even 1 province/state/region in the world where their federal government went as far as inviting a foreign national army of a country to kill their own people. You won't find any. At most a country will use proxies, not straight up invite a foreign national army so blatently. So naturally, shit is gonna hit the fan for us until we get accountability and can listen to eachother. Ceding the complexity of what a real long-term solution is to just going back to Ethiopian will not change anything, it'll make things worse and just create more pain and lawlessness for ourselves. So if someone wants to simply go by Tigrayan colours instead of Ethiopian colours they have every right to. You yourself don't need to do that, but at bare minimum you should not dismiss the legitimate way people are feeling as a result of this catastrophe.

[u/Pure_Cardiologist759 → u/Dry_Lengthiness9486]

It’s not me it’s a lot of us Tegaru and is not supporting PP