Tropes that became problematic

[u/KalzK]

The Persistent Suitor: A guy who is after the girl and just wont take no for an answer. Nowadays we just call stalking and harassment, but it used to be romantic. Example: The Notebook (2004), Noah asks Allie out while she's on a date with another man. She refuses, but he threatens to let go and fall unless she agrees to go out with him.

Comedic Woman On Man Violence: Mostly seen in anime, recently it has decreased a lot but years back every show had a woman hitting a guy and showed it as funny. Example: Toradora!, where the quintessential tsundere, Taiga, beats up the MC regularly.

Kid Bags Adult Baddie: I remember a few of these, sometimes it was to show how cool and awesome a kid was because an adult woman fell for him, now it's just seen as problematic shit. Example: Blank Check, the woman likes the kid and kisses him telling him to look for her in 10 years.

[u/GXNext]

It's funny because the violent tsundere trope is best deconstructed in Toradora. Taiga is avoided by most of the student body because of her violent tendencies. It's by getting to know Ryuji, another social outcast by his persistent mean face, that she eventually grows out of it and becomes a more well rounded person.

[u/Roland_Traveler → u/GXNext]

Also Taiga isn’t that violent towards Ryuji. She very rarely hits him (I’m talking countable on one hand, if that, and it’s counting the pictured scene in the OP where she thinks the literal first thing he says to her face is him mocking her), and it’s when she’s extremely emotional, i.e. not in her right mind. Like, Ryuji literally stuffs her pad back into her swimsuit at one point (it makes sense in context) and she was embarrassed, but she didn’t hit him even then. Taiga is someone with anger issues, but she’s far better than a lot of other tsunderes in anime.

[u/Electrical-Review180 → u/Roland_Traveler]

I guess before Toradora, the go to for violent tsunderes (excluding romance anime) was the blue haired chick from full metal panic

https://giphy.com/gifs/pHZaotCrvVks6vh0gi

[u/Vermilion_Laufer → u/Electrical-Review180]

That spin thou...

[u/Tokyo_Ink → u/Electrical-Review180]

I never saw Kaname as problematic. It's slapstick comedy that shows Sousuke sometimes needs something to get through his thick skull. He's literally immune to it, and he is so dense she has to literally physically stop him from blowing things up. I don't think she ever hits him during any scenes depicting serious character development.

Personally I think this gag is just a matter of taste a lot of the time, and the number of examples where an author is actually portraying an abusive character as comedic is less prolific than the internet seems to think.

There are just so many unrealistic exaggerations and gags in animation that I don't usually get any kind of tonal whiplash from slapstick.

[u/Electrical-Review180 → u/Tokyo_Ink]

I guess one problem is the reversal of genders and iirc Kaname sometimes beat Sousuke up because of her own delusions. Been a long time since l watched tho. Now I wonder if Fummofu is still funny

[u/Tokyo_Ink → u/Electrical-Review180]

I did think about the role reversal, and IMO it wouldn't matter. The character roles don't really have anything to do with the gender dynamic. It's just a normal person suddenly getting a total war nut as a body guard who won't stop causing wild destruction unless clobbered. Especially since it's Sousuke who draws that treatment to himself. It's not really a character trait of Kaname that she beats people up. She's normal towards other characters even when angry.

Ultimately I think slapstick comedy comes down to execution. It's not funny because a girl is hitting a guy, it's funny because the slapstick is well done.

[u/Electrical-Review180 → u/Tokyo_Ink]

Yeah. I actually think tsunderes are entertaining if well done but it's a fine line to walk for them to not go get annoying.

Similar with the violence. The looney tunes over the top slapstick is funny but some stuff can even feel fetishy.

Also they often overdoing it and we're back to annoying lol

[u/tsukiyomi01 → u/Electrical-Review180]

You want to talk about problematic tsunderes, look at Love Hina. And I say that as someone who has a lot of residual fondness for it.

(Keitaro, you should have gotten together with Mutsumi.)

[u/Electrical-Review180 → u/tsukiyomi01]

I dropped it after a few episodes as l didn't really find it funny. It's kinda hard for me to understand why it was so influential

[u/SoraMelodiosa → u/Roland_Traveler]

wouldn't work if their genders were reversed though would it

[u/Vertrant → u/GXNext]

That's kinda sad then, because i tried watching Toradora and i bounced off *hard* on Taiga's overly violent introduction. I saw how she treated Ryuji and approached getting her note back. And i went "this series wants me to root for this asshole? She needs to get punched back. No thank you Toradora."

[u/yoshi_in_black → u/Vertrant]

I should've as well, but I watched all of it and she treats him exactly the same in the end of the series.

[u/lighter-Writer → u/yoshi_in_black]

By the second half of the show there’s like only two examples I can think of her hitting him and both were accidents when she got overwhelmed. Lot different from the start where she literally attacked him with a wooden sword if you ask me