r/UFOs • u/joeyrk23 • 3d ago
Rule 5: Adhere to posting guidelines [ Removed by moderator ]
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u/mooncellar_ 3d ago
I think Jay's book was far more substantial then Lue's. Jay names specific contacts at specific companies and outlined thiier specific involvement. Yes it's all without evidence. But I think it was far more direct in Jay's book.
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u/Silent-Emergency1199 3d ago
This is the greatest introductuon to the greatest story of all time. Believe it. Incredible book. Fascinating to read the behind the scenes narrative from his perspective. How he came into contact with the legacy program by being in his position to probe and the force feedback by doing so. It clarified for me a number of things especially the necessity of releasing this book to get ahead of any narrative that the program may take. Confirmed Kirkpatrick's tenure as a legacy operative and the other folks who made deliberate and crazy messed up attempts to thwart the efforts of Strattons team. The anecdote of presenting to the airforce only to have a legacy rep place a tinfoil hat on a boardroom table immediately after his presentation. Keep up the good fight. The world will be a better place with truth and yes, noise dissipates. The kids know it. They want reality.
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u/Black--Silver 3d ago
Even if he doesn't add new information, confirming certain stories is plenty. I'm just loving how some UFO accounts that were "debunked" have now been confirmed to be real by credible insiders.
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u/SubstantialLunch9215 3d ago edited 3d ago
Confirmed by words only, if we're being honest about it, we still have no verifiable evidence of any of these stories at all
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u/corneliusvanhouten 3d ago
The fact that people in these kinds of roles are saying these things at all is insane. Yes, it isn't proof of anything, but it absolutely needs more attention and investigation when multiple mil/ic people are saying these things. Should be the top story in the news every day until we get answers
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u/DisastrousReach5073 3d ago
The media need to start covering it without snickering every time they mention uap. Their coverage clearly shows they don't take it seriously
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u/SubstantialLunch9215 3d ago
I think it's just such a low credibility topic due to the repeated claims that are never backed up with evidence, so there's a big hesitation on spending tax payer money and time on it.
I also think the main goal is to generate gov contracts for outside companies and consultants to "investigate", like the Reid Bigelow contract.
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u/corneliusvanhouten 3d ago
You can think whatever you like and you may be right. But the fact is this is crazy shit and we need answers, not guesses
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u/Kwisscheese-Shadrach 3d ago
It’s not really though. We’re being told there are all kinds of crazy programs without oversight in the government. The government spent a crazy amount of money on things like project stargate and all kinds of wonky things. Hal Puthoff worked on project stargate. These guys get funding to look at UAP. Guess who they also work with? Puthoff.
It’s the same people saying the same things to the same people in a telephone game for decades.
I say this as someone who believes there are weird things out there and people are seeing things. I think these guys are clowns though.
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u/corneliusvanhouten 3d ago
What are you talking about? Specifically, what is the history you are referring to?
No one in the mil/ic community has ever claimed anything like what Elizondo, Stratton, Grusch and others have claimed.
If you think something weird is going on, why would you dismiss it when multiple insiders go public with these claims? That's suspicious.
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u/Kwisscheese-Shadrach 3d ago
Because they’re all telling each other the same stories. I’ve read this book, and Lue’s book. The lack of scientific rigour is clear, and it’s just heard x and y from z. It’s the same as Lue’s stories because they were both on the same team.
I believe fravor and graves and people who actually saw things. I don’t believe these guys. I think they’re trying to make a buck.
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u/corneliusvanhouten 3d ago
You're too focused on details and personalities. Some people are probably disingenuous but that seems insignificant in light of the topic at hand. Let's get answers from the people who have them instead of bickering about which whistleblowers we like and don't like
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u/SubstantialLunch9215 3d ago
How is it insignificant that the people telling the stories that make up the topic, are unreliable?
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u/corneliusvanhouten 3d ago
because if just ONE of them is telling the truth, it's the biggest news in history. Even if they're all lying, we need to get to the bottom of it.
why is that hard to understand?
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u/SubstantialLunch9215 3d ago
If we fully investigated every story, without assessing it first, we'd be bankrupt in a week, you understand that too? I would love for us to be able to investigate everything to completion, it's just not practical and when the people telling the stories are the ones that want to do the investigating, it becomes highly suspicious and with being cautious
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u/Kwisscheese-Shadrach 3d ago
But who are the people who have answers? I’m with you, let’s get the answers, but from whom?
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u/corneliusvanhouten 3d ago
we don't know yet. Voters and journalists need to push elected officials to prioritize the questions. If we continue to accept the status quo and just argue on reddit about whether whistleblowers are reliable, we're not going to get anywhere.
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u/Kwisscheese-Shadrach 3d ago
So why don’t the people who know say? If people in government know, why don’t they say? What are we supposed to do if people apparently at the highest levels of the military told people at the highest levels of government and then people also want to know, but nothing is still happening, what then?
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u/Black--Silver 3d ago
That's still a massive upgrade from "you're crazy, there's no such thing as UFOs"
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u/Reignman34 3d ago
“Most of his book mirrors stories also within Luis Elizondo’s book.”
Perhaps, because it is the truth? What’s more likely, a shared lie or the truth? And by truth, I mean truth by their experience.
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u/PermanentCalmAccount 3d ago
A shared lie is just as likely, I'm sorry. It is just your perspective versus another.
There is no way for us to know if any of them are really telling the truth right now. It's hard to accept but the truth is that we do not know.
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u/Reignman34 3d ago
I cannot agree more that we just don’t know. From there, it’s really a choose your own adventure
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u/joeyrk23 3d ago
Im not sure share lie is the other possibility. It could be a planned control form of disclosure to keep eyes away from the legacy program.
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u/Reignman34 3d ago
Ah yes. The planned deception campaign. I’m going to guess you are a young person, because as you get older you realize that, frankly, the US government is simply not that competent.
Further, what is Occam’s razor here? IMO, the default is someone is not trying to deceive you.
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u/Gavither 3d ago
It's a little rude to imply they're young. Any age can be naive, and there are very bright young people. They could be new to the topic.
That said I do agree with you. There is something going on and they are desperate to maintain the secrecy: the secret is they don't know as much as they let on. Or they do know more, but they don't want to be held accountable for their predecessors screwing up first contact.
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u/GrumpyJenkins 3d ago
Dude, easy. Firstly, as someone themselves on the back nine of life, age doesn’t make you a gatekeeper. Secondly, as an example, as I got older, I realized that there are elements within the government that are frighteningly competent, especially when it comes to manipulating public opinion. This is factual, documented, and quite frankly terrifying.
Maybe you are part of that campaign. I sure hope you are just profoundly ignorant.
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u/joeyrk23 3d ago
I'm 32? If that qualifies my opinion? I dont think its the US government in totality. There could be members of certain intelligence communities and private sector employees who benefit off the story being controlled or manipulated.
I don't fully think Jay is lying I just wanted to see how others thought about some aspects of the book.
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u/ASearchingLibrarian 3d ago
How do they "keep eyes away from the legacy program" by pushing for data to be released, by getting legislators enthusiastic about pushing for more released, or by making sure whistleblower legislation is passed that draws out legacy program members and contractors?
Nobody was the slightest bit interested in UFOs in 2017, and not one lawmaker would touch the issue, so how are these guys supposed to be somehow taking us back to that when they've been also pushing in the opposite direction?
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u/joeyrk23 3d ago
By relasing information that UAP exist but not the fact the government has been reverse engineering craft for 70 years, and that crimes have been committed keeping it a secret. That funds were obfuscated. That certain contractors were given proprietary materials that may have benefited them commercially and thus creating an unfair market.
I agree UFOs were not as popular before 2017. I dont claim to think I am right. I am simply asking questions
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u/ASearchingLibrarian 3d ago
I'm at a complete loss following your thoughts there. It is pretty clear the stuff is buried very deep. As such insiders are the only people who know and can successfully prise open the doors using legitimate means. If they didn't want things investigated they'd be shutting up about it like insiders did for decades prior, instead they can't stop talking.
They've all been talking openly about reverse engineering, crimes being committed, funds obfuscated... That's what they've being saying needs to be investigated. Where are they not saying that?
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u/joeyrk23 3d ago
People involved with the legacy programme haven't been speaking about it though. But they could be influencing what information is released and what isnt. Is that really an outrageous thought?
Im not putting Jay in that category, I belive he wants the truth out there too. But we also cant be sure that he was either given false information about anything.
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u/Icy_Sir3842 3d ago
Dr. Eric Davis referenced a portrait of the Nordic being from Holloman landing in this interview . He further affirmed the authenticity of DoD's UAP information in the book UFOs: Past, Present, and Future. It would be interesting to cross examine that information with Stratton
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