r/WeAreTheMusicMakers • u/Bonus_Potential • 5d ago
Ideas right before falling asleep
This is gonna sound kinda schizo but does anyone else come up with the sickest melodies/patterns right before they fall asleep? It’s super annoying because it’s so hard come up with decent ideas that I like during the day but every now and again right before I drift into sleep my brain comes up with a holy grail of a musical pattern. What the hell is that 😭
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u/Blitzbahn 5d ago
Controversial opinion: people only think the ideas they have when falling asleep are better than the ideas they have when fully awake. But if they had the same idea when fully awake they may actually perceive it as bad. So it's not about the idea itself but our openness to things.
I know there's a time when falling asleep or when half asleep that our mind starts to make more lucid associations and let go of it's normal rigidity. Great ideas may occur at this time.
But I think it's just as likely that great ideas occur when we're fully awake in the day time, but our judging mind doesn't recognize the idea's greatness, and isn't open to it's potential. The mind filters things out. Falling asleep disrupts the filter. We can also do this while awake. One way to get close to this is to work very fast and intuitively and not judge what comes out, letting all the crap ideas have their say, without judging them, along with the good ideas.
Someone mentioned Keith Richards coming up with Satisfaction when falling asleep. It's also possible that if he came up with this idea in the day he might have dismissed the idea as banal, and not picked it up.
IMO it's not about the quality of the idea that comes out, but what we do with it when it comes out, and how we approach the creative process generally.
If we judge new ideas that come out as bad before they've had a chance to grow, that's not a good creative process.
We need to stop being our own harshest critic.
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u/Implausibilibuddy 5d ago
It's an understandable scepticism, but I know what they're talking about. It's a noticeably different state of mind. It's rare that it happens, and usually when I'm very sleep deprived, but I will get actual auditory hallucinations. It's different from just thinking up a melody, or even "hearing" a known song in your head like you would if you had an earworm stuck in there. Those are hazy, and very much inside my head. But hallucinations are as if actual music was playing in my ears, as if on headphones, or speakers, or otherwise outside of my head. And I can hear every part, every instrument and pick it out way better than anything I can deliberately think up. The trippy part is being able to control it, changing the melody and dynamics on the fly, like I'm controlling an entire band or orchestra with my mind. It's closer to how dreams seem easier to conjure up entire scenes and worlds, compared to just trying to imagine them when you're awake. You can sort of do it but it's hazy and very much "inside your head", not something you're seemingly experiencing for real. I put "inside your head" in quotes because of course it's all in your brain, it's just the hallucinations feel like they're external, not internal.
I make it sound cool, and it is, but it's not particularly useful - by the time I get up and to the piano the effect has worn off and I only have the hazy "inside" memory of it. It's not worth the sleep deprivation.
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u/Blitzbahn 4d ago
Yes I understand it's a different state of mind, and what I'm saying is it's the state of mind that's significant, not the quality of the idea. I think the different state of mind makes us perceive the ideas as better than they are.
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u/Implausibilibuddy 4d ago
You seem to be saying the state of mind changes to one where dogshit ideas are heard as better than they are and given a chance they wouldn't have. And maybe there are circumstances where that is the case. But I'm not talking about that, and I don't believe OP was either. I'm talking about fully formed ideas that are literally better than anything I could come up with all at once. I've heard full string arrangements where, were I to transcribe them and plot them out, they would make complete harmonic sense. Normally I would have to write the main line and figure out the harmony piece by piece.
I've heard full band arrangements where the drums are doing complex fills that match the music with the bass perfectly in lockstep. I normally just cheap out on drums and do something simple or use a preset groove and let our drummer fill in the...fills.
And just because I gave up on trying to rescue the full arrangements doesn't mean I lost the memory of the music. It was still there in the same way in the same way you can still remember songs you've heard for the first and only time in a store or on the radio. And don't think I didn't try in the beginning, as soon as I was musically capable. I used to try and get as much down as I could but back then my transcription ear wasn't what it is today.
In the handful of times I've managed to bottle some of this lightning it's been the music I receive the most compliments for. It's never the full thing, but I did manage to rescue one of those string arrangements once, four bars of it, and it was like nothing I'd ever written. I built a track around it and it's one of my proudest musical achievements. It's not just "I was in a state of mind where my usual shit ideas sound good", believe me, I can give you shit ideas and they don't sound anything like what I'd hear during these hallucinations.
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u/Blitzbahn 4d ago edited 4d ago
Okay fair enough. I wasn't specifically talking about shit ideas but more just average ones.
Anyway it's cool that you know that potential is there.
I guess my point is I think there's a way to let go of mental control during our normal waking mind, to not work so intentionally and consciously, and to stop conscious thought getting in the way of good ideas. I think we tend to approach composition by thinking stuff up, intellectual intention, but I think the good stuff comes when we don't try to think stuff up, but rather let it come out instead of filtering it.
From your report, the fact that good ideas are there under the surface just waiting to come out is proof to me that the conscious thinking approach doesn't work and just gets in the way of more pure creativity that you discover when letting go of conscious thought.
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u/donovanm 2d ago
I know exactly what you're talking about. The same thing happened to me a few years ago when I went 48 hours with no sleep. Intricate drums, cool chord changes, really good and interesting bass line and everything fit together well. Each part was better than what I normally come up with. At first it was just an intricate song stuck in my head until I got tired of hearing it and discovered I could control it. That was fun but pretty much meant I didn't get any sleep that night.
The next day I assumed I imagined most of that happening but then the same thing happened again the next night. I wish that was something I could switch on whenever I wanted to.
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u/ATolerableQuietude 5d ago
people only think the ideas they have when falling asleep are better than the ideas they have when fully awake
Yes, I've kept a notepad next to my bed, and written down ideas from right before I fall asleep, or if I wake up from a dream that seems inspirational.
In the morning there's a significant chance that what I wrote the night before is unusable gibberish.2
u/WalkingEars 4d ago
Yeah, I recorded voice memos of melody ideas that I got when half asleep and one of them was decent enough but not spectacular, and the other is basically gibberish lol
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u/Shionkron 5d ago
Yes. One thing that helps is to maybe e use a memo recorder on your phone bedside, or if an iphone use garage band to quickly type in the melody before you go to sleep. many musicians do this. I watched an interview once with Jerry Cantrell of AiC and he literally spent about 20 minutes just talking about this and how he has thousands of recording of him speaking, humming and singing gibberish in hopes to find out what it was he was trying to grasp before bed. HAHAHA
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u/phylum_sinter phylumsinter.bandcamp.com 5d ago
This isn't schizo man, there are a number of famous composers and inventors that utilized their brain's pre-sleep creativity strategically.
Da Vinci mastered Polyphasic sleep, and got reportedly whole nights-worth of rest (and ideas!) by napping 15-20 minutes every 5 hours.
I keep a handheld recorder by the bed for the same reason
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u/Distro_Nerd 4d ago
The da Vinci nap routine is a popular story, not a documented habit. Fifteen to twenty minutes every five hours is about an hour and a half of sleep, not a night's worth. The recorder by the bed is the part worth keeping.
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u/plantpowerpizza 3d ago
I get it when the music is in the next room, low level. Your brain makes up the gaps and you create stuff that isn’t there.
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u/thcsquad 5d ago
Definitely happens to me. I don’t think it’s rare, something about the way our brains are engaged when we’re drifting off to sleep helps creativity.
I think the same thing happens when doing other activities like work. If it’s inconvenient to deal with musical ideas, my brain wants to think about them.
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u/letsbesupernice 5d ago
It’s the conscious and subconscious brains passing each other as one crashes out and the other starts to take over.
Many artists and inventors attribute this time with creating their best ideas. I always try to grab my phone and beat box it out, then capture later.
I’m feel like the mind is open to more universal ideas in that time?
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u/Frankie6Strings 5d ago
I keep a free recorder app on my phone for times like that. Whether it's a melody I can hum or lyrics I can say/sing, I can at least record it for later rejection when I'm wide awake.
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u/Mari_P10 5d ago
That has happened to me quite a few times during hypnagogia. One time I was hearing this masterpiece in my head so I managed to wake myself up to record it... only to realize it was actually quite shit heh
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u/AlcheMe_ooo 5d ago
Give the brain anything to do its not totally down with and I find great ideas come flowing aplenty (that have nothing discernable to do with the set task)
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u/PartyOrdinary1733 5d ago
I've been woken by a good melody and the moment I leave the room to record it, I forget it😩
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u/AlertAd7834 5d ago
Sing it into your phone. In my experience they usually aren't as good as they seem at the time, I think when we are falling asleep we are just more open to stuff
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u/BandTopiaApp 5d ago
Facts!! Well usually I'm in 'go mode'n all day until bed, I think our minds are finally relaxed so we can lean more into it? Like a free-flowing state of consciousness but with no distractions.
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u/BovineSadist 5d ago
This happens a lot, not just for music but other aspects of my life too, I keep my mobile next to my bed and quickly voice note the idea or hum the tune and revisit the next day. Sadly on the nights the Mrs isn't night shift I have to just let the idea go, a slap on the head is no good when you're trying to record an idea 🤣
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u/PrimeIntellect 5d ago
You're letting your brain get bored and imagination go wild, which most people never do anymore because they are always on their phones
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u/Impressive-Dot-5609 5d ago
Yes sometimes. And sometimes in my dreams. Then I forget the songs when I wake up :(
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u/Distro_Nerd 4d ago
The pitches are the part that disappears. Scratch the interval steps somewhere before you drift off, up a third then down a tone, and the contour is singable at breakfast. Does the rhythm stay put for you while the pitches vanish, or is it the other way round?
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u/hippydipster 4d ago
A nice surprise for me in this way is that I have found that often a melody will come to me as I'm lying in bed falling asleep, and I will hum along and then I'll realize that this melody actually goes very well with some line I was working on during the day. Like, my brain is coming up with reasonable harmonization/counterpoint for me, to go along with whatever I heard on repeat throughout the day.
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u/perrydolia 4d ago
get a small hand-held recorder, put it by your bed, and when you get a good idea while falling asleep, sing it into the recorder. Review in the morning.
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u/LittleGreyRabbits 4d ago
Or worse - when you write a great song in your dream and then can't remember it when you wake up
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u/Artistunknown251 4d ago
Your not schizophrenic, I’m schizophrenic. Diagnosed. You’re most creative when you’re tired. For some reason the brains creativity rockets when you’re tired. Start making music right before you usually go to bed to get the best results.
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u/sonar_y_luz 3d ago
yeah not exactly the same but i split my time between doing covers and originals
and its always when im about to record a cover that I come up with my best original riffs, like when im just warming up
ill usually pull up a new project in the DAW real quick and record the idea, because I dont like them to go to waste anymore
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u/fuser-invent 3d ago
Normally I don’t hear anything in my head by my own voice and it’s pretty faint and muffled. Similar to aphantasia but with audio.
Occasionally when I’m falling asleep and in a hypnagogic state, I’ll hear novel symphonies with a full orchestra.
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u/KrissieFox1 3d ago
Sometimes then, sometimes in my dreams too. The other night I dreamed about a really cool sounding beat I made, and it poofed from my memory as soon i woke up. :P
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u/plantpowerpizza 3d ago
Ha you can’t deny that it’s when your noisy mind finally shuts up and you are one with the world. I think it’s when you get out of your own way.
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u/infinitepaths 2d ago
Came here to say about the Dali spoon method, I think Edison also did similar and probably others in the past. There is some magic in the way we think in that state just before falling asleep, also dreams, in the shower and during repetitive tasks - I remember working as a pot washer in my teens and got great ideas while doing that repetitive task. Like someone else said it doesn't always mean it would be a great idea, but it does get the creativity flowing.
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u/TheVividCashew 1d ago
Im no psychologist, but its probably your brain unloading a days worth of creative thoughts after being pent up with responsibilities all day. Your mind gets a second of genuine quiet and its all "OH FUCK YEAH! LETS GO!!!"
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u/Echo_242 1d ago
This happens to me - a few times I thought I would remember it when I woke up but it’s always gone. Now when ideas visit me in tha space between awake and sleep I have to get up and a make a voice note.
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u/realblueMaru 18h ago
Sometimes. I have very sleepy recordings of me humming the songs I come up with. They are quite funny to listen to and there are even some good ideas too
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u/MahlonMurder 5d ago
Freddie Mercury of Queen reportedly sat at his piano holding a spoon above a saucer. As he fell asleep he would drop the spoon on the saucer and be suddenly jolted awake by the sound. He would then be struck by inspiration and write it out.
He purportedly got the idea from Salvador Dali.