r/aiwars • u/Kamsimation • 13h ago

Is This Really The Future You Want?

Gallery image

Gallery image

Gallery image

Gallery image

Gallery image

This is what happens when there's no regulation

348 Upvotes

82% Upvoted

686 comments sorted by

View all comments

57

u/Olmectron 13h ago

There's nothing wrong with competitors.

Also, if the hand crafted game was made with effort, it will show. No need to worry about something that spits "slop". Right?

3

u/sussy_ball 12h ago

Quality does not ensure success, you need luck as well.

8

u/Misterreco 12h ago

I mean, not necessarily. Even if you were doing it without AI, copying something is much easier than coming up with it. This was already a thing before too, copycat games always popped up after a popular release. But AI has made the volume overwhelming

7

u/ifandbut 11h ago

If it wasn't for DOOM clones we wouldn't have modern FPS.

2

u/tenmileswide 5h ago

If there's someone to thank following Doom it should be Quake and Half-Life, not Doom clones

-4

u/Dodo_Baron 11h ago

Yes but those took awhile after doom broke the market.

7

u/Opening_Wind_1077 11h ago

It took about a month for the first doom clones Hit the market, especially in the early days copying styles and game concepts was extremely common.

2

u/Dodo_Baron 11h ago

You mean blakestone? It was in development before doom released and used the Wolfenstein 3d engine. Which released the year before

3

u/Opening_Wind_1077 11h ago

I mean operation body count and corridor 7.

Arguably Doom itself is just a refined clone of Wolfenstein 3D, having an engine that can fake verticality is not what makes Doom, game feel and the oppressive atmosphere contribute quite a bit and have “inspired” a lot of games.

The point is, borrowing or even outright stealing ideas is hardly a new thing in game development or any other human endeavour. If it’s good people will copy it as fast as they can.

0

u/Dodo_Baron 11h ago

Both of those were Wolfenstein 3d clones, they weren't doom clones. Because of that they took a year to release after Wolfenstein 3d

And no doom had a lot of technical advances over Wolfenstein. Eitherway it still took a year after Wolfenstein to clone it.

1

u/ifandbut 9h ago

Doesn't matter. Still clones iterating on the idea.

1

u/Dodo_Baron 9h ago

I'm not arguing iterating on the idea is bad lol

12

u/thebanfunctionsucks 12h ago

Look I dislike IP for how it stifles the spread of ideas, but surely you see how this is bad? If we don't have IP protection and a UBI, people who have ideas need something to protect their ability to profit off of the idea. Otherwise, people will just stop sharing their ideas entirely out of fear it will simply be stolen and developed by an AI faster than they can do it, themselves. This is only going to make information spread more slowly, not more quickly.

19

u/Suspicious-Host9042 12h ago

people who have ideas need something to protect their ability to profit off of the idea

Ideas cannot be copyrighted and they shouldn't be.

5

u/thebanfunctionsucks 12h ago

Intellectual property is a thing. Yeah it'd be great if people could share ideas freely and still be compensated for it, but it would also be great if everybody got a unicorn and a blowjob. Failing the realization of these fantasies, we have to operate in the society we currently find ourselves in, and the trend showed by OP is very clearly detrimental to that society.

9

u/Coding-Panic 12h ago

Boo hoo, hollywood has been doing this for decades. They'd literally rush to dump a shittier version ahead of the competitors release date.

Maybe don't come up with a game mechanic so unbelievably simple that anyone could rip it off like I dunno punching a wall to escape. Or digging a hole. Slop getting out slopped is not some great catastrophy and collapse of civilization.

Ideas are ideas and no one has rights to them. If you wanna bring a simple idea to market you need to hit hard and fast. Punching a wall doesn't need a demo and a 18 month marketing campaign to "grow awareness".

Someone got fucked for unthinkingly following generic reddit game dev advice for a Steam game launch.

1

u/Fantoozie 6h ago

Wanting to operate within the confines of the system when it's facing multiple existential threats is a losing battle. The real conversation is how do we restructure society without work in a way that mitigates hysteria and likely violence.

1

u/infinite_gurgle 11h ago

By this logic the original game couldn’t have been made since every concept in that game existed in previous titles.

1

u/CatFish726 10h ago

By their logic humans can copy whatever, but ai can’t

0

u/No-Revolution6743 4h ago

If the issue being raised was the concepts pre existing you might have a point, but the issue being raised is the theft of ideas that people are actively crafting. You know, something totally different than whatever the hell you’re responding to. I don’t know why you have to pretend that you wouldn’t be protective of something that pays your bills if you knew it could be stolen from you

1

u/infinite_gurgle 3h ago

Don’t spam reply to me. It makes you look like a tool.

1

u/No-Revolution6743 3h ago

I’m not spam replying you, I’m replying to multiple people in this thread and didn’t even notice it was you a second time. I guess stupidity is a constant when it comes to you

-5

u/Lazy_Air_5936 12h ago

Detrimental? Intellectual property will continue to erode and all these excess indie devs will finally have to get a job. It's a win-win.

3

u/ManagerSecure6012 9h ago

and games like stardew valley will cease to exist. A win for consumers everywhere!

-3

u/mtbdork 11h ago

Spoken like a true person who has never had an original idea.

5

u/Olmectron 12h ago

Protection? Don't companies copy themselves all the time? For indies, isn't there a whole genre called "Metroidvania"?

What about Astrobot, did people cancel that for copying Mario?

What about the indie Minecraft clones? Should Microsoft go after them?

1

u/ruffleraffle 11h ago

Sigh.

Ask yourself, why Nintendo had a problem with Giana Sisters but was fine with Mega Man.

Anyone who is honest with themselves understands why. Taking inspiration at a more abstract level to work on something transformative versus being an opportunistic parasite creating derivative content at the expense of the original creation are two different things.

3

u/Olmectron 11h ago

That first Giana Sisters game back in the 80s resembled even block assets a lot. Of course they had a problem with that. 

If the copy doesn't blatantly copy assets, but only recreates some of the mechanics, there shouldn't be a problem. 

1

u/thebanfunctionsucks 12h ago

Genres are not clones. Metroidvania isn't even copying one thing, it's literally two different games (Metroid and Castlevania) with superficial similarities. This is like saying Good Fellas is a ripoff of The Godfather because they're both about gangsters; it is in no way similar to copying and marketing an entire product before it is even released.

7

u/Olmectron 12h ago

The cases on OP pics are games with the same mechanics but not direct asset copies.

So, don't Metroidvanias usually share lots of gameplay mechanics? That makes them, you know, Metroidvanias. 

5

u/thebanfunctionsucks 12h ago

Again, there is a difference between making a game which is functionally identical down to every last mechanic, and making a game which has some overlapping mechanics but also some which aren't shared. Metroidvanias are not blatant copies of each other like seen in the OP.

5

u/Covetouslex 12h ago

Game mechanics are not protected, never have been, and never should be

2

u/PlayItDewey 7h ago

WB's Nemesis system is still protected through 2036.

3

u/throwaway_pls123123 12h ago

Where do we draw the line? How much shared mechanics are okay? How much is not?

4

u/thebanfunctionsucks 12h ago

Ideally we could share and develop all ideas freely while compensating their originator, but there are a plethora of reasons why modern society can't gel with that. So instead the courts have established standards for when something constitutes infringement or theft. My problem is that AI is seemingly being used to skate around those barriers due to its many legal grey zones.

1

u/ChronieMewX 2h ago

Ideally we could share and develop all ideas freely while compensating their originator, but there are a plethora of reasons why modern society can't gel with that. So instead the courts have established standards for when something constitutes infringement or theft. Luckily, AI is seemingly being used to skate around those barriers due to its many legal grey zones.

0

u/throwaway_pls123123 12h ago

True, I think we'd have a lot less problems if we didn't require so much profits to succeed in any industry, I think it would increase creativity and decrease copycatting.

0

u/The-Murder-Hobo 12h ago

Academia and prestige is the only reason humanity started learning and sharing research, before information was hoarded and kept secret for power and profit but academia clout vacate an avenue to profit

11

u/Accomplished-Fix3401 12h ago

I have painfully realized a lot Americans have no taste.

21

u/ALightningStar 12h ago

You mean they disagree with you lol

3

u/Accomplished-Fix3401 11h ago

Im ok with people disagreeing with me. I dont think my taste is the only good taste or something like that.

I just think there is something off about people who engage with lots of slop, lots of short-form, high intensity content, and don’t care or think or anything. Idk, I feel uncomfortable around incurious people that have nothing to say about why they like or don’t like things.

Ill take a person with different tastes than I infodumping about their thing, and engaging in conversation about topics that are outside their interest or expertise, than someone who just lives in a weird bubble.

4

u/Ok_Heat7648 11h ago

They probably think the inverse of you , neither of you are right as it’s all just taste

1

u/DontDoodleTheNoodle 42m ago

I think there is some objectivity to the integral quality vs rapid consumerism debate. You can’t just dismiss it on the grounds of subjectivity.

0

u/white_boy64 5h ago

I mean drama and short term profit/content is very common in America, their culture is extremely self centred and if you mainly care about yourself then why not do what feels good now. I mean look at all the sugar or cars in America

1

u/averageuhbear 4h ago

No it's a lack of taste. An attachment to lowest common denominator attention grabbing junk food that makes them enjoy the world less because they become reliant on the dopamine hit.

1

u/Fast-Sir6476 12h ago

Looking at microdrama slop earnings recently makes u fear for the bottom 50%

2

u/DeepGas4538 7h ago

it's not really competition when I just gouge your idea and make it free

1

u/Afraid-Abalone-7695 12h ago

It’s sentient.

(Recourse-:/delete

1

u/Olmectron 12h ago

Lol. 

-11

u/Kamsimation 13h ago

Are you being serious right now?

31

u/Olmectron 12h ago

Yeah. Or will you also condemn big companies copying between them? How did Playstation dare make a Mario clone with a robot?

How did Epic games copy PUBG and created Fortnite?

Only copycats everywhere. Cancel the game industry. 

-5

u/Moose1013 12h ago

what if the indie devs stop making stuff for you to copy?

4

u/Olmectron 12h ago

What if the indie devs stop copying other games?

Did you know about "Metroidvanias"? That name comes from Metroid and Castlevania.

Should indies stop making copies from those two big IP games?

There's like 30 Metroidvanias getting released every week on Steam, maybe even more. And a lot more of them planned to release soon. 

-8

u/gaygayagyfemboy12345 12h ago

those are okay, because they changed up the ideas and stuff.

astros playroom 's only important similarity with mario is that its a platformer

fortnite is more cartoonish and doesnt have the same mechanics

4

u/Olmectron 12h ago

You either haven't played a 3D Mario game or the Astrobot game. If you played both, you very well know it was Sony's try for a Mario game. And it was good. 

Fornite was based on PUBG and was way less cartoonist than it is now at the start. PUBG is basically forgotten if you compare against the juggernaut that is Fornite.

0

u/gaygayagyfemboy12345 12h ago

astrobot has different characters, mechanics etc. and ive played astrobot and watched mario gameplay

5

u/Olmectron 12h ago

I've played Mario and Astrobot. They are the same, of course Astrobot got diferent and some very interesting mechanics, but none can deny the very direct inspiration from Mario. 

4

u/AlftheNwah 12h ago

So does Mario. Series has evolved quite a bit over the years lol. Saying you've watched Mario gameplay can refer to like 15+ different games btw lmao.

-17

u/Kamsimation 12h ago edited 12h ago

14

u/Iryls 12h ago

why is it in hebrew

1

u/jay-ff 12h ago

למה לא? (Still a bit random)

13

u/Olmectron 12h ago

Cool argument. 

13

u/CocaineKeys 12h ago

performative people like yourself are so boring

1

u/WingDingfontbro 12h ago

This means that there’s no correlation between the games mentioned here and the games mentioned in this post. I’m saying this because other people don’t seem to understand what this means. The reason why is those games (in the comment) aren’t copy cats, they’re just part of the same genre. These AI slop games are ENTIRELY COPIES of the real versions. So it’s not like someone’s taking an idea and putting a spin on it so it’s derivative without being a copy but instead someone literally just making the same exact thing you are just much faster an sloppier.

I,agile you’re working on an Essay and the teacher has everyone share their work with eachother for inspiration and whatnot and the person you share with essentially copies your essay 1 to 1 and does it faster and submits it before you and everyone sees it first and they get graded better. Then you submit yours and now you’re labeled the copy cat and yada yada you get the point. It’s one thing to take inspiration, it’s another entirely copy what someone else does.

-6

u/ETucck1 12h ago

May I ask why are you being disingenuous in your arguments? I just stumbled upon this subreddit, and as someone who uses AI for their own personal work, it's odd to me you would use this approach. I am just going to bold your comments and tackle it from there.

"There's nothing wrong with competitors."

There's nothing wrong with competition, but competition and copying someone's specific idea before they can even release their game aren't necessarily the same thing. I am not sure why you are conflating the two.

"There's nothing wrong with competitors.

Also, if the hand crafted game was made with effort, it will show. No need to worry about something that spits "slop". Right?"

The issue isn't whether the original game is better. It's that the indie developer has to invest significant time and effort into making the game, while someone else can potentially use AI to recreate the core appeal of their idea in a fraction of the time

Even if what the person made is better, the copy can still siphon away attention, players, and potential sales. Being the better product doesn't guarantee that you'll succeed, especially when you're competing for people's limited attention.

"Yeah. Or will you also condemn big companies copying between them? How did Playstation dare make a Mario clone with a robot?

How did Epic games copy PUBG and created Fortnite?

Only copycats everywhere. Cancel the game industry. "

This is another example of being disingenuous and again you conflating two different things. First you are oversimplifying how inspiration and imitation work.

Also, the question isn't whether games share ideas. They always have (as you pointed out). The question is whether there's a meaningful difference between independently developing a game inspired by a genre and using AI to cheaply replicate another developer's specific work before they've even had a chance to release it.

For me it comes down to morals in this particular topic. Obviously now indie developers and developers in general can't follow the same playbook of marketing games anymore because of this.

7

u/Olmectron 12h ago

Then the developer should also use AI.

It's not like Claude or ChatGPT got many access restrictions or something. Anyone can use them if they pay. Easy. 

If your years long developed game  fails against an AI made copycat, you didn't try enough. It's unfair, but what do you expect me to say? I didn't invent current LLMs. It's the sad state of the world and the game industry.

Also, we drown in games. Some weird copycat in Roblox or anywhere, wouldn't steal you sales anyway unless they go viral.

With hundreds of new games releasing every single day between PC and consoles, for an indie game to get lots of success, you need to make an insane marketing effort or go viral anyway. It isn't secure that your hand crafted game will get success in this saturated industry. 

-2

u/ETucck1 11h ago

"Then the developer should also use AI."

I personally believe people in certain industries need to start adopting AI or risk being left behind. AI isn't going anywhere. However, recognizing that AI is becoming necessary to remain competitive doesn't mean every use of it is ethically justified.

You're treating the ability to compete with someone as justification for the behavior itself. Those are two different things.

I use AI myself, so this isn't an argument against AI. It's an argument about how it's being used. There's a difference between using AI to help develop your own ideas and using it to rapidly copy someone else's creative work before they've even released it.

Of course, developers need to market their games, and hard work doesn't guarantee success. Nobody is disputing that. But the fact that success was never guaranteed doesn't mean every additional disadvantage is irrelevant.

"It's unfair, but what do you expect me to say? I didn't invent current LLMs. It's the sad state of the world and the game industry."

You're so close! Again my whole problem (or the reason I commented on your post in the first place) is that your original comments seemed to dismiss the ethical concerns surrounding this kind of copying. You argued that the original developer should simply use AI themselves, that if their game failed against an AI-made copycat they didn't try hard enough, and that there was no reason to worry about it unless the copy went viral.

Now you're acknowledging that it's unfair and describing it as the sad state of the industry. That's essentially the point I've been making. I'm not arguing that AI can or should be stopped, nor am I arguing that indie developers are guaranteed success. I'm arguing that acknowledging the reality of a situation doesn't mean we have to dismiss the ethical concerns surrounding it.

AI is here to stay, and developers will have to adapt. But we can recognize that reality while still questioning how people choose to use the technology. What OP posted is an example of how AI can be used unethically

That's all I was arguing for. I just personally didn't like your sarcastic comments and the way you conflated different situations to defend AI use in general

-7

u/[deleted] 13h ago

lol ok bro

0

u/Zeekfox 12h ago

This is fair. I've seen a number of Pokémon ripoffs, but if it looks like it's trying to be Pokémon without actually being the real thing, I just don't play it.

2

u/Hot_Context_1393 12h ago

Why not?

2

u/Olmectron 12h ago

They are very bad games. There are some exceptions, of course.

Go play Cassette Beasts now.