r/apple • u/iMacmatician • 2d ago
Apple Intelligence Greg Joswiak Says Apple Isn't Focused on Making AI for 'Lunatic Fringe'
https://www.macrumors.com/2026/10/15/greg-joswiak-lunatic-fringe/55
u/Motawa1988 2d ago
fix your fucking keyboard, its embarrassing
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u/unfunfionn 2d ago
Or the iPhone lock screen notifications. I am so tired of them shifting up or down just as I'm about to swipe something away, only to accidentally swipe away something I actually wanted to look at later. Every fucking day.
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u/DVSdanny 1d ago
And add notification history like android
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u/unfunfionn 1d ago
Yes, absolutely! There are notification I want to leave on the lock screen for a few minutes because their respective apps have no internal bookmarking feature. But then I accidentally swipe it away and never, ever remember what it was anymore.
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u/GeneralCommand4459 2d ago
1997:
Here’s to the crazy ones.
The misfits.
The rebels.
The troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.
The ones who see things differently.
They're not fond of rules.
And they have no respect for the status quo.
You can quote them, disagree with them,
glorify or vilify them.
About the only thing you can't do is ignore them.
Because they change things.
They push the human race forward.
While some may see them as the crazy ones,
we see genius.
Because the people who are crazy enough to think
they can change the world, are the ones who do.
2026:
For “everyday people”.
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u/YourFavoriteTurk 1d ago
Tbf for them to still pretend that Apple isn’t the mainstream tech company it is now would be completely out of touch. It’s a shame that they don’t go for the “think different” kinda perspective anymore, but that’s just not what the company is these days
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u/Winters791 1d ago
Just curious but what exactly do people mean by this? I mean the iphone works and it works great, i don’t see changing it in any way would make it more better than it already is, same goes for the macs. Why do people wan’t to reinvent the wheel or worse an imitation of a wheel
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u/PandaMoniumHUN 1d ago
Think different would have meant coming out with a folding phone first on the market when its still quirky and novel. Modern Apple comes out with a folding phone once other brands have figured out the product category and they just need to perfect it.
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u/Galp_Nation 1d ago edited 1d ago
This is such revisionist history. Apple has never rushed to market to be first. At least not in it's entire history since Jobs' return in the late 90s.
iMacs weren't the first to really do anything. Apple didn't invent all-in-one, internet connected PCs with USB ports and a CD-ROM. They just designed the first one that made people ooh and aah.
iPods weren't the first MP3 player by any means. iPhones were far from being the first smartphones. iPads weren't the first tablets. Apple Watches weren't the first smartwatches. I'm struggling to think of a single product line in the last 30 years that Apple could ever have claimed to be first in.
What Apple has always done and still does (even if they don't always succeed at it) is build products that are simple to use with good, unique industrial design, as well as being willing to abandon technologies they feel are holding back the progression of the product. Being first has literally never been their M.O.
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u/Cel_Drow 1d ago
Technically I think iMacs were the first mainstream computer to drop the floppy disk drive entirely, and with the macbook/pro in 2015 among the first to drop USB-A entirely in favor of exclusively USB-C.
Not really anything innovative to decide not to be compatible with older tech though.
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u/Dreaming_Blackbirds 1d ago
considering what weird goblins the AI dudes are, it makes sense to keep them at a distance. normal people have more buying power and brand loyalty than the goblins.
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u/PandaMoniumHUN 1d ago
How would normal people have more buying power when literally all consumer electronics are priced up due to chip shortage since AI folks are buying up everything, lol.
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u/TerminalNoob 2d ago
I see a lot of people saying new Siri isn’t working for them here but anecdotally it’s been working really well for me. I guess that is the risk of llms being non-deterministic.
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u/rewddit 2d ago
If nothing else I appreciate that they're at least PRETENDING to care about privacy with LLM usage and promoting local models. Need more of that attitude in the space.
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u/FollowingFeisty5321 2d ago
2 hours later: Ternus congratulated Zuckerburg on their collaboration to run Muse locally lol.
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u/steveholt-lol 2d ago
Perhaps you’re getting confused. This isn’t the Muse app, it’s Muse Spark Open—it’s an open-weight model run locally. It doesn’t share data with Meta, or connect to Meta’s servers.
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u/shabamsauce 1d ago
I believe that’s what is designed to do. I do not believe that any Meta anything is not stealing your data.
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u/0xe1e10d68 1d ago
Yeah, well, a model can't steal data, unless it's been explicitly trained to execute such actions (and even then it'd have to be granted the necessary permissions).
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u/mcslender97 1d ago
That's not how locally run open model works. Please go and read up on that
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u/shabamsauce 1d ago
It does if that’s how the model is designed to run. Sometimes you don’t know what your computer is doing if it’s doing something that is intentionally obfuscated from the user.
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u/mcslender97 1d ago
Not if you disable internet access. Or limit what tool it can use. Do us a favor and check out r/localllama to learn first
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u/After_Dark 1d ago
Right, they're pretending to care. Apple just likes to not talk about the cloud model handling anything more complicated than setting a timer. It's almost the same exact system that Pixels and Galaxy phones do with Gemini and Gemini Nano on device, they just don't pretend that most of your requests are staying on device, down to Apple using Gemini-derived AI. I'm sure Private Cloud Compute is more private than the Gemini equivalent, but Apple's been caught lying about what data they track before and their ToS is riddled with loopholes for "safety" so it's hardly a spotless record
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u/EmbarrassedSlide3746 2d ago
I have been messing around with the contextual abilities. Was discussing a surprise party via messages with a friend. Asked Siri who I was talking about that with. It pulled up the person the messages and the pictures of outfits discussed for it.
Another time I asked about and appointment that got moved and when was it. It pulled it from my email showed me, then I had it put it in my calendar.
However I did ask what was the last song I was listening to on Apple Music and it got that horribly wrong lol.
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u/Kimantha_Allerdings 1d ago
There’s been a couple of occasions where it randomly pulled in stuff that I didn’t ask for. Presumably to be helpful, but at least in the two instances it wasn’t
The first was when I asked it a generic question about a company I sometimes deal with. I forget the exact question but it was something like which department I’d have to talk to for X. It found me the relevant email addres, but also added “Y and Z are usually your points of contact at this company”. Which was correct, those are the two people I usually talk to. But I know that and it isn’t what I was asking
Not really a negative, but one thing that I like about Siri AI compared to other chatbots is that it usually doesn’t embellish. It just answers the question you asked. So it’s a little jarring to see it embellish its answer by going through my messages and emails when all I needed from it was to search the company’s website
The second was one time I was trying to find some primary sources for something I was looking at online. I’d copied some text to add to a note but I wanted to find some more sources so I could be sure that what I was going to paste was accurate
I asked Siri some questions around the subject, asking for sources and it found good quality sources, but also said (paraphrased) “this is relevant to X, because Y and Z” with X being the text I’d copied but specifically hadn’t mentioned in the chat. I asked how she knew what I was talking about and whether she’d gathered the information from the Safari tab I had open, and she said that she’d read it on the clipboard
Which, again, isn’t necessarily a bad thing, but it wasn’t expected behaviour
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u/_moonbear 2d ago
It’s definitely slower, but as an information retrieval process it’s amazing. I told it to tell what restaurant I ate in a specific city and using only photos I had taken it was able to give me the date and name of the restaurant. I asked it when I had a text conversation with someone about a vague subject and it pinpointed the text to me from one year prior.
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u/Amonamission 2d ago
It’s certainly nice to be able to use Siri in Apple Carplay to explain some germane topic I’m thinking of immediately, but for it to take twice as longer to do something as basic as creating a reminder or an alarm that doesn’t require such compute power is just unacceptable.
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u/debare88 1d ago
I was walking back from lunch today and said to Siri AI verbatim “There is a list that I saw of the top 10 cities in the world where San Jose was above Tokyo do you know what that was?” And it pulled it up in just a couple of seconds.
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u/Munkadunk667 2d ago
How long does it take to set a timer? There is no way that Siri AI is faster or the same as old Siri. That’s the real issue here.
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u/TerminalNoob 2d ago
I just tested this and for me it was less than a second. I don’t know if I’m just getting the happy path here or what is going on for me that it’s not for other people.
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u/anothermanscookies 2d ago
Same. Instant. No difference for simple queries.
For more complex stuff, I’ve only dabbled but it’s been great. It found a piece of info from a recent text perfectly, accessed a really old text and cross referenced to what someone else said on the same day, and pulled up a door code from an old note perfectly. All of it done in a couple seconds.
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u/Material2975 2d ago
on my 18 pro max its instant, but my watch 10 and m1 pro macbook pro fail after waiting a minute. sours the whole experience
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u/tmax8908 2d ago
You must be on the happy path. There's a significant percentage of simple requests that fail for me. timers, reminders, "call my wife", "create a note titled ___ and say ___", the list goes on. And EVERY single one of the successful ones take at least a few seconds.
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u/AngryFace4 1d ago
Every single one of my requests through HomeKit goes like this…
——-
Me: “Siri do the thing”
7 seconds go by (used to be 2 or less)
The thing happens
Siri: “it’s taking a little longer than expected” ——-
The ai pre-processing is really slowing it down.
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u/GameAudioPen 2d ago
for me? around 2 seconds from end of sentence to timer set.
no real change in timing for me using iphone 16 pro
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u/moldy912 2d ago
I like it better as well. I only have two gripes. One, it’s very slow. Just so insanely slow, compared to Claude, ChatGPT, and Gemini. My other issue is that it clearly doesn’t have enough context still. I asked it how long until I get to the border of the state I was in on my route, and it couldn’t answer. This is the kind of stuff I expect Apple to be the best at.
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u/lbjazz 1d ago
The problems I have with it have little to do with it using llm’s. It’s just simply buggy as shit software—hangs up on simple stuff (probably failing some handoff between functions), asks for input when it’s already working on the request based on what the input obviously was (causing a f’ed ui glitch), just flat out freezing up before acknowledging the request, failing to route the request properly (or at all?), asking for follow up but having no way to give that follow up, complaining about network access or similar when it couldn’t possibly have more solid network at that moment… it’s like absolutely no one even tried it out after vibe coding it.
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u/Jusby_Cause 2d ago
Me, too. I’ve started trying everything I want to do in Siri first and have seen some good results. I have no idea if it’s comparable those other tools (I still make most of my daily decisions without having to consult an AI, so don’t feel a need to PAY for it), but it’s better than it was and useful/informative in ways I didn’t expect.
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u/Dichter2012 2d ago
Coding and productivity work are highly deterministic. Are the numbers correct? Is the bug fixed. That’s why Ai agents are taking off right now.
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u/TerminalNoob 2d ago
That’s not really what I’m talking about though. For one thing, I’m talking about the kinds of output Siri does, not coding agents. Things like set an alarm, play a song, and set a reminder. They have a similar end evaluation where the thing is done or not, but they’re a lot less big and theoretically easier.
But the other thing about what I said is I’m talking about the llm and the path it takes to get there, not the result. Two people can tell Siri AI to start a timer and one person can get their timer started, and another could not. Coding agents could have this happen too, two devs could tell Claude to solve a bug and one could solve the problem correctly the first time, the other might not, and regardless it’s unlikely they’ll come up with exactly the same exact code because the output is usually a bit different.
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u/RojaTop 2d ago
Those vibecoded programs are causing more issues and a knowledge loss in society. Not only we have samey looking apps since AI is trained on those apps and can't "create" (only uses math models to predict what it seems "correct"), it also causes more security issues with AI confidently making those choices. Why do you think there is a rise of CVEs now?? Because shit is AI coded.
Those ai agents are taking off due to automation and only automation. Not because it actually "solves" it.
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u/akrapov 2d ago
Why do you think there is a rise of CVEs now?? Because shit is AI coded.
Hi, I worked in Cyber Security. A lot of our new CVEs are being found in old human-made products because AI has moved security software on significantly.
The security world likes to say "there's more CVEs than ever", ignoring that these problems always existed - we just didn't find them.
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u/Dichter2012 2d ago
You a bot? You just copy and paste your comment twice reply to me with the />
🥱
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u/SoldantTheCynic 2d ago
When it works - it's okay. Not amazing compared to other models, but it's suitable for what it should be able to do. Still a pretty average showing given how long they've been behind but it was never going to be a ChatGPT or Claude competitor, nor does it need to be.
But it's so wildly inconsistent at times - worse than Gemini - in when it'll work and under what circumstances. You can use the same simple command twice and get a failure and a success. They should be able to work out some of the inconsistency for basic commands.
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u/nuclear_wynter 1d ago
New Siri on Apple Watch has been, and I don’t use this term lightly, literally unusable for me. Every single attempt to set a timer would either hang forever or seem to get stuck waiting for more conversational input while the timer started in the background, so the second I said something else (not to Siri), it would start taking random actions. For a non-deterministic system, it was amazingly deterministic about failing to perform the literal one task for which I use Siri on Watch. I’m already dreading the day that the easy reversion to old Siri goes away.
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u/mjezzi 2d ago
Siri is super dumb still. It can’t handle a two part simple question like, report to me what doors are open AND what doors are unlocked. It still gives me a response, but there’s no correct answer.
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u/HollandJim 2d ago
Siri isn’t always Siri. Unless you’re living in the US, Canada, UK, Australia…or, worst case in the EU, you might be stuck with the old Siri.
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u/OutsideMenu6973 2d ago
One of those situations where if you don’t know what you’re missing you won’t want more
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u/TerminalNoob 2d ago
I mean I’m talking about people who say it won’t even start their timers any more or play their music, not about places it could improve.
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u/OutsideMenu6973 2d ago
People complaining are probably the biggest users of this stuff and have multiple HomePods, a watch, etc. if you do not you will not notice. If I ask it to set a timer in the kitchen HomePod it dims the sound on the stereo pair in the living room where my kids are watching annoying them and then it’s a crapshoot where the timer actually ends up whether it’s my watch, phone, one of the HomePods, my wife’s devices? Relying on it to keep the bacon from burning in the oven it’s a contentious topic
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u/lbjazz 1d ago
Look, I love Apple products and stan for them more than is probably socially acceptable.
But why the fuck after over a decade can I not just tell it to mark the current podcast as played? Or how about “what time will I arrive” when using maps?
New Siri is supposed to be so fucking integrated and smart yet after all this time it can’t do basic things that have been ripe for fixing the entire time.
Someone is asleep at the wheel.
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u/jsnxander 2d ago
"Hey Siri, what's the hourly forecast for Germantown?"
Siri - "That's crazy, lunatic talk. Everyday people only need a forecast for the high temp. We'll TELL YOU what ever day people want."
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u/FollowingFeisty5321 2d ago
This interview comes across as a bit defensive, their biggest advantage is they control how everybody else can integrate and leverage that to their own advantage, literally what the DOJ is suing them for and the EU dismantling bit-by-bit.
We don’t feel threatened. The fact that we can do the integration that we can means we can create just a better experience than anybody else.
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u/literroy 2d ago
I wonder if they actually asked any everyday people what they wanted. As an everyday person, I just want them to stop abandoning core functionality in favor of AI stuff I don’t need and doesn’t even work correctly half the time.
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u/WholesomeCirclejerk 2d ago
- hey Siri, set an alarm for 5pm
- I won’t do that for the lunatic fringe
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u/MiggyEvans 1d ago
But it does set alarms easily. Why would you assume you’re the lunatic fringe with that request lol People really be falling over themselves to be a victim
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u/zztop610 2d ago
I would say, they aren’t focused at AI. Period. Siri sucks. I haven’t used Apple Intelligence for anything substantial
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u/On-The-Rails 2d ago
Hi Siri - what’s the weather tomorrow?
Sorry you must be a lunatic to want that info. But in the spirit of helping, I’ll Google that for you after you stop driving
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u/MiggyEvans 1d ago
I just asked Siri this question and she gave me the weather report for tomorrow, quick and succinct. Not sure why it’s not working for you.
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u/G952 2d ago
Are they focused at all on Siri tho? It’s really slow and useless even today
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u/BelgianWaffleStomper 2d ago
I've been using the new Siri and it seems to be a shit load better than it used to be.
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u/AngryFace4 1d ago
Better in a very narrow way that I just don’t care about… like looking up info about your contacts, asking about calendar events, or answering very safe general knowledge questions.
As far as “normal” stuff like timers, lights, etc… Siri is waaaaay slower by like 4x
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u/fishymanbits 2d ago
And old Siri was extremely good at what it was meant for. The problem has always been people not understanding that it was never a conversational chatbot. It was a voice assistant. And as long as you used it for what it was meant for it worked extremely well.
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u/Ancient-Range3442 2d ago
The amount of times I’ve asked to play a song and it goes off and starts playing some random thing is unforgivable
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u/fishymanbits 2d ago
I get that maybe once or twice a year. And it’s really the only error that comes up. Every now and again it’ll ask me in which room I want to turn on the coffee maker despite only having one device called “coffee maker”, but that’s also a once a year kind of issue.
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u/BelgianWaffleStomper 2d ago
Sure but I'm bound to ask it questions, and it's FAR BETTER at answering them now than before.
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u/karma_police_in 1d ago
Fuck this guy and his arrogance
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u/gentile_jitsu 1d ago
He is incredibly sleazy. Every single time he opens his mouth he manages to be off-putting.
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u/alt-moonlight 2d ago
Siri works terribly for me on all my devices. I’d rather Apple focus on integrating AI into the ecosystem itself rather than implement generative AI.
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u/newtrilobite 2d ago
maybe that's the party line, but it's the same mistake Balmer famously made when dismissing the iPhone ("who's gonna wanna buy THAT?! it doesn't even have a physical keyboard!").
a relatable, friendly, "Apple-fied," super intelligent (sorry) assistant that leaves Muse in the dust, with Apple's privacy and integration, that makes the fussiness of app management history - a C3PO - is where Apple should be moving.
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u/Kind_Management1805 2d ago
who buys a device for it's AI features though ? The only thing I want Siri to do is set an alarm at the right time. Even smart home it's faster to open the app than talking.
Almost every AI interfacing devices are just failed projects.
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u/miniannna 2d ago
I just saw an article about how smartphone sales are down. If AI was such a big sell I’d expect the opposite at this time.
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u/Kind_Management1805 2d ago
Exactly ! People are pissed off by CoPilot, Dell reversed their AI whatever naming schemes. Reddit and online forums are not representative about the general public. The majority of people don't give a shit about coding. Or AI Agents hallucinating shit for you. AI is for most people a faster way to google stuff. It's not even inteligence. It's a glorified autocomplete
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u/parsnippityjim 2d ago
Why would you expect that? Most people are running their AI workloads on cloud platforms like openAI and Anthropic. You can use it on any phone.
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u/newtrilobite 2d ago
I think you're framing it wrong.
yes, you're right, no one buys a device for its "AI" features anymore than someone buys a Mac for its Unix features.
but just as a Mac makes Unix invisible, the future Apple product makes AI invisible.
R2D2 / C3PO are AI devices in Star Wars, but the humans who use them don't think of them as "AI devices." They think of them as highly useful robotic assistants with tolerable personalities that do stuff for them.
That's the goal.
But the idea that AI is simply the glue that connects other useful things, doesn't have to be bleeding edge, and doesn't have to have a personal relationship with the user (the current Apple model) is what I think will be replaced by bleeding edge AI that is packaged as a personality, not a computer that does a bunch of useful things. All of those useful things, and all of that AI will be under the surface of the personality that will be the single point of contact for the user.
"Muse - do this for me."
"C3PO - do this for me."
"Future Apple device - do this for me."
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u/Kind_Management1805 2d ago
the do this for me is cool but it's sloppy right now. C3PO is an anthropomorphic AI that does not exist. We don't have Jarvis.
I asked Claude to retrieve medical studies to test it because it's been a while since I tried Agentic stuff (last time was Perplexity Comet, most useless thing in the world anyway)
I told it it needed to go through my library proxy. First issue it cannot open Chrome on its own. Then second issue it didn't activate the proxy link so it extracted .txt of the abstract and not the medical study I asked for. After giving it the link it was finally able to access the study, find it on the relevant provider and then another roadblock. It got stuck on the downloading pop up so it had to close the tab and then reopen it and try again. 15 minutes. I can do it in one.
I asked him to replicated my Mac control center from a screenshot of my iPhone layout and it could not find the edit button (half thank Liquid Glass lol) I showed it to him and then after 5 minutes of heavy thinking : Sorry can't drag and drop.
The theoretical idea of Jarvis/C3PO is exciting but in the real world today it doesn't work. It's not an all-mighty, all-knowing thing.
I could write the same paragraphs about FSD and so on...
Yeah it's cool it was able to setup my jellyfin server and "Arr' stuff quickly but I lost any knowledge on the config. It was of course messed up and I just wiped everything and did it myself.
EDIT: No idea for Muse geolocked in my country for now.
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u/newtrilobite 2d ago
> "C3PO is an anthropomorphic AI that does not exist."
not yet. that's my point. that's the holy grail.
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u/Questioning_lemur 2d ago
One step forward and three steps back.
The latest Siri seems like she's been lobotomized. Far more useful and provided useful responses in her earlier iterations. Currently, Siri will either be infuriatingly wrong, or infuriatingly non-responsive.
A total shit-show.
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u/newtrilobite 2d ago
yes, but not fast enough.
the analogy is early internet access when Apple had an opportunity to make internet access easier for everyone.
at least in its public statements, apple seems overly dismissive of personality agents, and the value of best-in-class AI.
Muse should be an Apple product.
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u/gayteemo 2d ago
isn't that exactly what he's saying? i don't see how that's the same as ballmer at all.
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u/AngryFace4 1d ago
Apple, like many of our institutions these days, is captured by old hand neigh-geriatrics. Sad.
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u/redditproha 1d ago
so are they targeting the "gullible masses"? these dudes keep shipping OSs riddled with years old bugs and trying to spin the same old apple marketing bs
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u/DrZeroX3 1d ago
Siri was meant for everyday people but that went nowhere. Apple should’ve fought hard against shareholders and demanded why is it needed.
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u/BubbaCrabby 1d ago
If I were to make a Zelda-esq game with young people trying to save Hyrule from boomers, I would take Joz under serious consideration as Gannon.
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u/Zestyclose_Push7523 2d ago
I’d prefer if Apple just didn’t do ai at all. It’s useless.
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u/ForsakenRacism 2d ago
It’s not useless
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u/Zestyclose_Push7523 2d ago
Yeah it’s very useful for making shitty looking pictures and making businesses twice as hard to deal with. Not to mention how great it is at deleting important information without prompting and encouraging people to kill themselves.
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u/Dichter2012 2d ago
Pretty sure you are stuck in the chat bot mindset and have not use any agents on coding or even god forbid Muse or Instinct on iMessage.
Most of the rich people have paid assistant to do stuff for you. The new sets of agents can do a lot for you and you still have to decide on yes, no, maybe etc.
You live the life you want though.🤷🏻♂️
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u/RojaTop 2d ago
>any agents on coding or even god forbid Muse or Instinct on iMessage.
Those vibecoded programs are causing more issues and a knowledge loss in society. Not only we have samey looking apps since AI is trained on those apps and can't "create" (only uses math models to predict what it seems "correct"), it also causes more security issues with AI confidently making those choices. Why do you think there is a rise of CVEs now?? Because shit is AI coded.
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u/Dichter2012 2d ago
Do you really think greedy corporate America spending billions on AI just to break their own apps, or that engineers are going back to writing human slop code by hand?
Blaming everything on 'vibecoding' is just a safety blanket dude. There’s no turning back. It could be bad and very bad but Ai is not going to disappear. Maybe people should focus on don’t make it suck.
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u/miniannna 2d ago
Corporate America is thrilled to have an excuse for continued fossil fuel reliance
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u/Dichter2012 2d ago
Sounds like a movie tied in with Digger. Great movie btw.
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u/RojaTop 1d ago
It flopped because it was being a smug pretentious movie. It appealed to the reddit demographic, that's why it's being glazed and even a little bit on r/boxoffice
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u/Zestyclose_Push7523 2d ago
They are spending money on ai now so that in the future they don’t have to pay humans to do jobs.
It is yet another avenue to keep them rich and everyone else poor.
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u/Dichter2012 2d ago
Wait, 30 minutes ago you said AI only makes shitty pictures and breaks businesses... Now it's effective enough to replace human workers? Which one is it?
Bye.
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u/SoTiredYouDig 2d ago
They clearly indicate that this is something they are targeting for the future. Do you read the news? AI CEOs have said time and time again how they plan to eliminate the working class. I’m not here to argue if AI is good or bad, but burying your head in the sand and ignoring the direction things are headed is ridiculous.
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u/Dichter2012 2d ago
I don’t think I’m burying my head in the sand dude.
Even the most fanatic people are saying (like actual employees of Anthropic) that they will lose their jobs in six months: Personally I think they are hallucinating themselves or if they got to SI they don’t even have to fucking work anymore.
The question is whether it is just hype in itself. According to their CEO, I shouldn’t have a job by now, and we should be facing a 10% to 20% unemployment rate. He wrote that in May. The current unemployment rate is hovering stably around 4.2%, with structural labor shortages concentrating heavily in favor of blue-collar and hands-on trades over desk work.
The real world is always somewhere in between.
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u/ricvallejo 2d ago
It absolutely can be both. Corporations don't care if their websites and apps don't work so long as they believe their consumers have no alternative or are likely to put up with the issues they're faced with, and they're often too blind to people clicking away from something if they don't actively report a problem.
This has been a trend since before AI. Agile development methodologies, relying on your user base for quality control and beta testing, pushing incremental fixes after rushed UI overhauls. The workflows and project management methodologies have been there, but now AI is exacerbating the issues and leading management and investors to think they don't need the people responsible for cleaning up any mess caused.
TLDR; tech companies have been bad at prioritizing user needs for a while, and AI is only accelerating that while trying to replace human workers.
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u/Zestyclose_Push7523 2d ago
Surely you understand that technology gets more effective over time right? Also they are implementing this technology way before it’s ready.
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u/RojaTop 2d ago
>America spending billions on AI just to break their own apps,
Tell that to Microsoft with windows 11 and with a lot of bugs breaking certain apps or even crashing the OS.
>that engineers are going back to writing human slop code by hand?
At least they would know where the problem is eventually. With the AI, you won't even know the intent of the code because it was only prompted rather than coded.
>Blaming everything on 'vibecoding' is just a safety blanket dude
Not blaming as a blanket, it's more so more and more bigger companies are making such mistakes that shouldn't be happening normally.
> Maybe people should focus on don’t make it suck.
And vibecoding can't even do that properly, lmao.
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u/ForsakenRacism 2d ago
Theres bad ai just like there’s bas customer service that isn’t ai. Theres also good uses for ai
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u/RojaTop 2d ago
Very few cases such as Medical research, and Reverse engineering which are only when used for when people are already extremely skilled/experienced in those fields. So the result is basically net zero benefit.
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u/ForsakenRacism 2d ago
Not very few cases. I’m building a cabin and I use it all the fucking time. It saves me so much time and helps me do research so much
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u/celeb0rn 2d ago
I also hated when we switched from horses to cars. Cars are useless. Also electricity is dumb . So I'm right there with you.
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u/ricvallejo 2d ago
The large majority of consumer AI is either a fallacy of convenience, trampling intellectual property rights, or positioning large tech companies with unchecked and unearned power, or a combination thereof.
What, so I can get a slightly different preview of my messages, or struggle to have Siri set alarms or create calendar events, or remove people from the background of photos so I can pretend that I am the center of the universe and the rest of the world stops existing for my photo shoots that I post to social media to support my own vanity?
Just because AI can do things does not make it useful or a net benefit to society. Very few of us are really so important or busy that we need to feel like we have a personal assistant following us around to save us from the tedium of taking two seconds to manage our own messages, timers and calendars.
Meanwhile, people are losing the capacity to think or write without AI to spew some asinine bullshit, and tech companies expand their reach and control of our data along with influence over politics.
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u/celeb0rn 2d ago
Agreed, we messed up when we invented the wheel and don't get me started on domesticating livestock. So I'm with you.
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u/ricvallejo 2d ago
Whether you want to believe it or not, not every invention or advancement in technology is inherently an improvement to society.
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u/celeb0rn 2d ago
Agreed. Don't get me started on how insane indoor plumbing is, pointless advancement.
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u/RojaTop 2d ago
Did indoor plumbing makes us lose the ability to think? Was it available to the masses like AI was?? Do people use it in every aspect of their lives?
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u/celeb0rn 2d ago
Usually it's the people terrified of slight change, that are missing the critical ability to think.
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u/ricvallejo 2d ago
You have one thing to say and it was tired before you even said it. Get a life.
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u/celeb0rn 2d ago
Life was simpler before computers lets go back to that
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u/ricvallejo 2d ago
Certainly better before you had access to one.
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u/celeb0rn 2d ago
I'm sorry for what you're going through. Change is hard. Touch some grass, AI can't hurt you. It's important to detach from reddit occasionally. Mental health is so important.
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u/Zestyclose_Push7523 2d ago
Nice false equivalency. We already have computers to automate tasks we don’t need them making decisions and thinking.
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u/yunglegendd 2d ago edited 2d ago
If you don’t like AI don’t use it. And avoid it.
Many people especially poor rural folks didn’t buy cars and didn’t get electricity for decades after the big cities had them.
You can be just like them.
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u/Zestyclose_Push7523 2d ago
The car industry created millions of jobs, ai is destroying them.
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u/yunglegendd 2d ago
Actually in the short term the car industry destroyed many jobs.
In 1900 Horses were a huge industry. From from raising them, buying and selling them, operating them, and cleaning up after them.
In 1920 you couldn’t give away a horse.
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u/ricvallejo 2d ago
People can't just avoid it. We have to deal with products and services getting worse and people around us losing their ability for independent thought and problem solving.
AI is a hollow promise and its hasty over-adoption is making many things worse. And for what benefit outside of the most mundane sense of convenience?
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u/yunglegendd 2d ago
Well just like people who were mad about electricity and cars,
you’ve got the right to be mad, you’ve got the right to try to create your own little homestead where time stopped.
But just like them, the rest of the world moves on without you.
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u/Zestyclose_Push7523 2d ago
AI is not the same as those things at all. It is actively destroying jobs and people’s ability to think for themselves.
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u/celeb0rn 2d ago
Agreed, improving computers is dumb, we really should have stopped once we had punch cards in the 1970s
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u/Hyhttoyl 2d ago
Okay well I’m a member of the “lunatic fringe” would you mind letting me reroute Siri requests to my swarm of personal agents thanks
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u/DisjointedHuntsville 2d ago
Steve Jobs would be classified as the "Lunatic Silicon Valley Fringe" by this definition 🙃
I don't understand how execs like Jos can fail so spectacularly and still stay at Apple. Siri is a disaster. Everyday/Fringe/anything . . it's useless. Not a SINGLE person buys the iPhone for Siri or any Apple product for that matter.
That's a direct consequence of leaders like Jos who don't understand technology the way the people who built the foundations of Apple did. These dumbasses unfortunately collect rent on the tech stacks of greater men.
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u/Kind_Management1805 2d ago
Do you know someone buying a device for AI ? Because I tried to use Google's AI and it's not much better than Siri.
Currently asking any AI to do non-coding-related tasks is slower and has more friction than doing it by myself.
I asked today Claude to find something controlling my laptop and the prompting+ doing the tasks took at least 10 times longer than doing it by myself.
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u/DisjointedHuntsville 1d ago
What do you think the 512GB unified memory on the Mac Studio is for? 🤣
Or the 170gbps memory bandwidth on the m6 in the mini?
Man, what do you think is driving the insane price hikes in all of computing recently if not for people “buying a device for AI”??
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u/Kind_Management1805 1d ago
Okay so the price hike is caused by the people running on-device AI model ?
Citing the 512gb model the nichest of Apple's niche is absolutely not representative. The cheese grater Mac Pro had 1.5tb of RAM was that also for AI. No wait AI was not a thing yet. (I am talking about LLM when saying AI here)
And btw consumer have no role in the RAMpocalypse. It's entirely AI companies hoarding silicon to have the biggest and shiniest datacenter.
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u/DisjointedHuntsville 1d ago
“RAM” is not the same thing in the grater and the studio 🤦♂️
You seem out of touch with the demand profile of compute. Maybe look at the Apple unveiling of the Mac Mini M6 itself to see what they demoed.
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u/Kind_Management1805 1d ago
Ai is the buzzword go look the CoPilot+ PC thing lol. Anyway I'm done arguing to a wall here.
Mac Studio predates LLM so yeah.... Memory bandwidth was invented for AI is absolutely not a part of any other workflow.
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u/DisjointedHuntsville 1d ago
🤣🤣🤣 Try looking up what an “LLM” needs memory bandwidth for and if that existed “before” the Mac Studio
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u/basedmfer 2d ago
Try Grok Bot, its super fast. Can also lower the thinking level on your Claude to speed things up
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u/Kind_Management1805 2d ago
I should give a try to Grok Bot but the price is really high for well Grok and bots doing stuff I can do in 5 minutes myself.
Claude is too slow too many permissions and can't do much. I asked simply to match the control center on my Mac to a screenshot it took 5 minutes to finally say I can guide you...
I asked once Perplexity Agentic Pro Max Deluxe to order sushi it took 15 minutes just trying to select the correct time slot...
At the end of the day the thing I use the most is Gemini Ai Summary in search lol
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u/Arve 2d ago
The Gemini ai summaries actually pushed me to finally switch to DuckDuckGo.
I was searching for something where I knew there should be plenty of results. Google came up with two completely irrelevant links and an even worse summary
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u/Kind_Management1805 2d ago
It's rare for me that the AI summary misses the point. Anyway not useful for serious work but when wondering the origin of a cheese or something like that it's fine.
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u/FourzerotwoFAILS 2d ago
Outside of some Reddit users, I don’t know anyone that buys a phone, computer, or tablet for its AI features. How does Joz still have a job? It probably has something to do with apples ever increasing profits and their recent $5 trillion market valuation.
Keep in mind, Joz has been with Apple for 40 years. He’s not collecting rent on tech stacks of greater men, he helped build the company and get it where it is now.
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u/literalsupport 2d ago
I agree. That new home hub whatever it is…the fact that it seems so tied to Siri makes it far less appealing.
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u/sowaffled 2d ago
Jos is the most offensive grandfathered VP to me. He’s annoyingly smug in every interview like he’s still part of SJ’s peak Apple. It was not confidence inspiring to have him be Ternus’ wingman for the last event.
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u/stroll_on 2d ago
But Siri AI is bad at doing things.
It’s embarrassing that, despite their big HomeView announcement this week, Siri can’t even create HomeKit scenes or automations.
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u/Boring_Occasion_3526 2d ago
Honestly that tracks , Apple’s always built for the normal user, not the power-user fringe. Curious if that still holds once Siri actually gets good.
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u/Sphere_3N 2d ago
Between this and the other executive saying he “cringes” at people who put on screen protectors it’s time Apple stays a bit more quiet.
If we could fully disable and delete Apple Intelligence and for people who like AI they could have option to use Claude or Codex or whatever as a “Siri” that would be fine. But no have to keep the ecosystem lock nice and strong.
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u/OutsideMenu6973 2d ago
They’re using your device resources to organize data for their local and cloud AI since compute is expensive. You can see them doing this with Photos at least there they’re honest about it but not letting us delete Apple Intelligence natively for reasons is a bad face to keep
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u/Expensive_Finger_973 2d ago
Joswiak added that "we don't feel threatened" in regards to Apple facing competition in the AI industry. "The fact that we can do the integration that we can means we can create just a better experience than anybody else," he said.
Nice way of saying "Ours will be the one everyday iPhone users use because we will make sure to lock everyone else out."
More to the point of the real issue, Apple seems to have had for along time is that they are very slow to iterate on something and try something new when a thing isn't living up to expectations it seems like to me. They don't need to go full Google and just release something then cancel it next year or let it die on the vine for ~5 years. But they need to be more dynamic than they have been for along time.
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u/red_hare 2d ago
I'm really onboard with this idea that AI is best when it's Mid.
Like I don't want to rewrite the field of math. I want a better organized groceries list.
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u/Strange-Effort1305 2d ago
Never trust anything a MAGA company says about AI.
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u/chaiscool 2d ago
Are there even any ai related tech companies that's not one? FAANG all the same anyway.
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u/SLAPHAPPY_BUTTCHEEKS 2d ago
Dean Ambrose in shambles