r/audioengineering • u/Poopypantsplanet • May 10 '26
Discussion Serious: Why the condescending assuming comments on this subreddit?
This is what happens: Somebody asks a question about something specific, like which synth plugin might be better for a getting X sound like their favorite artist on a specific song, or what kind of gear was used to record X drums on X album, etc.
Then some people kindly offer up their opinion or some knowledge and move on, leaving the rest in the hands of the person that asked, trusting that the person who asked the question knows what do with that information.
But you can always expect at least a a few people that take it upon themselves to deconstruct your entire approach before offering any help at all, with a condescending girth of assumptions about what you already know, without knowing anything about you at all. It goes something like this:
"You're approach is all wrong. Instead of looking for a specific piece of gear or plugin, what you really need to do if you want to sound like X is to is focus first on songwriting and arrangment. Then you need to get it right at the source. Try focusing on recording first, mic placement, room treatment, etc. Then when you are mixing, instead of looking for a setting, just trust your ears and find what serves the song, instead of chasing another person's sound and Stop trying to polish a turd."
EDIT: "And why would you even want to sound like X, when you could just sound like youself and do what serves the song?"
Now techinically, that's good advice, in a vaccuum, like audioengineering 101, if you KNOW that person is a beginner. But it's absolutely useless advice when somebody comes to you asking for a SPECIFIC thing, that already knows the fundamentals. They came to a sub about audioengineering after all, not songwriting or composing, or musical fucking philosophy.
And you have no idea if somebody has already done those things or not. It grinds my gears when somebody starts assuming that I haven't FIRST done all of those things, because I have. Some of us are just looking for other's ideas of how to achieve that last 1-5% of whatever we are trying to achieve, and we don't need an entire sermon about how our entire way of makig music is ass-backwards, from a stranger on the internet that knows nothing about us.
It's like you come to this sub to ask for an apple, and you'll get at least a couple people start preaching about how "you actually want an orange" according to their professional degree in the philsophy of fruit dynamics. It's exhausting.
Like, if somebody asked which brand of mayo was better, are you going to start chastising them about how they need to go back to sandwhich school?
If you don't have anything constructive to say and would rather try to deconstruct somebody else's entire philosophy behind how they make music than offer a straight forward answer to their question, then it's better you please just stfu.
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u/nizzernammer May 10 '26
I would speculate that at least some of the "unhelpful" responses may come from the genuine intention of encouraging some degree of independent thought and valuing the pursuit of foundational knowledge.
The notion that a piece of very specific knowledge that arose through experimentation and creativity and collaboration and hard work is a free menu item that someone can order up with a prompt with very little of their own effort, possibly without even a simple thanks, might make some folks feel like the knowledge they sweated for years to gain is devalued.
A little snark might arise in someone if they experience that every day, even if they have good intentions.
Add to that how tone is difficult to be precise with in written form and the general pitfalls of internet discussion, and the tendency of many engineers to focus on details and want to correct each other.
Go back to gearspace threads from like twenty years ago when it had its previous name and you may realize that a lot of this behavior is actually part of internet culture and has been for some time.
I bet even hobbyist culture in any niche interest has been like this for eons, with elders holding court and newcomers challenging their ways.
Edit to add: humans are going to human, warts and all
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u/Poopypantsplanet May 10 '26 edited May 10 '26
What you're saying is true. I don't think it excuses shitty behavior though. I've made posts on this subreddit in the past that were explicitly just sharing things that I had discovered myself, and I still got shit on for it. It's truly astounding how many people are here just to be jerks to others.
Edit : why downvotes? Are people against sharing knowledge now?
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u/Chungois May 10 '26
As someone who graduated sandwich school with honors, I completely hear you. And I’d never talk down to someone’s mayo question.
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u/danstymusic May 10 '26
Is mayonnaise an instrument?
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u/cruelsensei Professional May 10 '26
Anything can be an instrument if you're motivated enough
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u/alphaloft May 10 '26
So gross and hilarious. Take an upvote from my sticky fingers.
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u/Tajahnuke Professional May 10 '26
I imagine there's a Foley person out there who can tell you the different "plop" sounds made by different brands of mayo.
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u/TobyFromH-R Professional May 10 '26
Whats the best mayo?
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u/Poopypantsplanet May 10 '26
Kewpie or Homemade
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u/TobyFromH-R Professional May 11 '26
We were looking for whatever Togos used circa 2008
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u/Poopypantsplanet May 11 '26
Oh in that case, Ken's Extra Heavy Mayonnaise
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u/TobyFromH-R Professional May 12 '26
Wait, omg is that really it? I worked there 2007-2010 and it cant be beat
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u/Poopypantsplanet May 12 '26
I mean, I just googled it, and according to some reddit post, that's what it is and it hasn't changed. lol
Apparently quite a few people share your opinion. I gotta try it now lol.
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u/peepeeland Composer May 12 '26
Why do you know so much about mayonnaise.
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u/Poopypantsplanet May 12 '26 edited May 12 '26
I just made some homemade mayo last week for the first time ever, and I was kinda blown away. It opened up a whole new mayo world. I guess, Peepeeland, I just have mayo on the mind.
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u/peepeeland Composer May 12 '26
Here in Tokyo it’s mostly about Kewpie and similar tasting brands. American style mayonnaise isn’t too popular.
I haven’t made mayonnaise in like 20 years- might have to try it again; inspired by you bringing up the importance of mayonnaise.
May good mayonnaise be with you.
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u/TRexRoboParty May 10 '26
Which plugin should I buy to make my homemade mayo taste professional?
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u/Trickledownisbull May 11 '26
Comments like this are one of the reasons I'm still on this platform 😄
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u/tallgeesegrease May 10 '26
This behavior is endemic to Reddit as a whole.
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u/bestleftunsolved May 11 '26
Stack overflow. Especially a lot of "this question shouldn't be here". Granted there are people who haven't cracked their book and it's the night before their homework is due. But there also valid questions where people just nitpick.
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u/finncosmic May 10 '26
This annoys me too, someone asked in r/benfolds how he miced the piano on his early records. I did 5 minutes of research and gave them an informative answer. I got an award for it. Every other comment was “well you just need nice mics” or “just a stereo pair probably” (it wasn’t). At least answer the question the poor person asked before you go crazy giving them advice they’ve obviously heard already if they’re asking that!
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u/Spare-Resolution-984 May 10 '26 edited May 10 '26
Because most people here aren’t pros, but try to sound like pros by being snobbish assholes. And they literally can’t give any better advice than the most generic “trust your ears” kind of stuff, but still feel the need to participate to polish their egos, by putting somone else down with that snobbish attitude
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u/Lucky-bottom May 10 '26
This is the best answer. Then they say “I’m trying to help you and you’re defensive and rude”. Meanwhile they didn’t offer any help and their comment was irrelevant
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u/McGuire406 May 13 '26
This is the best answer, hands down!
Related note, I took some time early last year to review old recordings/mixes from when I started doing this in 2019 (I was 11 years deep into guitar and a very proficient player and writer). Some of them were rough, some were okay, and some surprised me a bit considering the techniques I've had at the time.
Had a guy around then give me the cliche "use your ears" advice. From what I remember of his mixes, they were barely better than mine, and I genuinely believe it was a sense of jealousy from him saying "[your instrumental] has a strong melody, you just need to use your ears. You need to fix this stuff..." while going on to NOT give me any pointers on things I should fix.
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u/lxbrtn May 10 '26
Ok now just because you end with STFU I will be a bit harsh, but what you’re talking about if the differentiation between a professional forum, and a “help” forum. For professional audio engineers “what synth should I buy” or “why is my mix not loud in my car” are not critical questions nor meaningfully challenges nor satisfying wisdom bits. Some subreddits have dedicated “*_ questions” variants where all questions are answered as pedagogically as possible, whilst the main subreddit is maintained to high level discussions. Maybe audio engineering needs something like that, but between “music makers” and the various synth and systems subreddit, it seems there are plenty of forums to get acquainted with the comparative features of sonic mayo producers.
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u/Poopypantsplanet May 10 '26
Ok now just because you end with STFU I will be a bit harsh
Oh. I'm scared.
“why is my mix not loud in my car”
So this isn't a good example of what I'm talking about. This is a very broad questoin that is 99% guaranteed to be asked by somebody who is at or near the beginning of their audioengineering journey. In this case, the best thing to do is ASK THEM what they have tried and try and encourage them in the right direction, not be condescending towards them.
What I am pointing to is when people ask very SPECIFIC questions about a frequency in a cetain plugin or a type of microphone vs another, or the sonic quality of old tape machines from a certain decade, or like you said "what synth should I buy." These are the questions that garner undeserved rebuke because of the ASSUMPTIONS made by the people criticising them.
The bottom line is you have NO IDEA how much experience that person has or what they have already tried, or what they know, so it is NOT UP TO YOU, full stop, to try to convince them that they are wrong for asking that queiston. You are actually wasting your own time.
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u/WhatsTheGoalieDoing May 10 '26
Oh. I'm scared.
Isn't this the exact kind of comment you're being butthurt about in the original post?
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u/Poopypantsplanet May 10 '26
No. Im being sarcastic.
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u/Hellbucket May 10 '26
So you would be fine with someone being sarcastic about someone who looks for for an eq curve to turn a km184 to a km84? Or is this different because you were sarcastic about something else? Sarcasm is……sarcasm?
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u/Poopypantsplanet May 10 '26
Yeah I would be find with that. That's not what this post is about.
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u/Hellbucket May 10 '26
No it’s not but you as OP turned it into that. I did not mean this question as being loaded. Do you think you’ll get better replies from other redditors when they see you are sarcastic because you’re not happy with a reply?
Your post is a lot about tone and how people communicate. So I’m not really seeing you help your case here.
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u/hellalive_muja Professional May 10 '26
I think the biggest part of the people answering to these kind of questions have genuinely no idea but want to write something or decided that the question is useless, some are bots, and some are frustrated and want to feel better than others and put the OPs on the “right track” of “genuine music making” - or stuff like that. I don’t know, many OPs ask technical questions but aren’t willing to understand or learn anything and this is weird too.
This subreddit is fun nonetheless
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u/Lucky-bottom May 10 '26
I agree. They could just ignore the post entirely and move on with their lives, but they feel the need to write a comment for upvotes and validation, even if it adds nothing of substance to the question. When I see a question that’s flawed or not comprehensive enough, I leave it to other people who are willing to help. I don’t go there to write a snarky comment to prove I’m better. It’s a bunch of people who don’t know the answer to the questions but still comment “use your ears” or some other bullshit to sound smart
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u/rightanglerecording May 10 '26
Some people just need a piece or two of actionable technical advice.
Other people would benefit more from a fundamental philsophical deconstruction.
Some people giving the advice just like to argue. It is the internet, after all.
Others, though, may have long careers, and/or a good bit of experience helping young aspiring engineers find their way.
Speaking from my own perspective looking back on my early days....I would have been so profoundly grateful if more people would have stopped to say "Hey buddy, you are focusing on the wrong things. X Y and Z need to be high on your list of priorities, and it seems like they're not even on your radar."
It would have stung for a minute, but I would have made more progress, and faster.
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u/Poopypantsplanet May 10 '26
you are focusing on the wrong things. X Y and Z
I agree, but I also have a problem with this. I have been told time and again to focus on my arrangment, songwriting, recording, room treatment etc. instead of chasing certain sounds in mixing. But the thing is, I DO all those things WAY MORE than I mix. Mixing is the last 10% for me. That's why I ask the question in the first place. Everything else is done, and in my opinon, done pretty well.
So it's frustrating when I'm like "Ok everything is set it order now for the cherry on top" only to be told (based purley on other people's assumptions) that I'm focusing on the wrong thing, simply because I'm asking for help with the cherry. It's exhausting.
Like am I supposed to preface every single questoin and post with "By the way, I have already spend ample time arranging, songwriting, recording, treating my room, practicing my instrument etc. Please do not tell me to do those things. I KNOW."?
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u/rightanglerecording May 10 '26
I think it depends on your goals.
If you just want to fulfill yourself artistically (and that's a fine goal!), then, yes, you and only you know if you've spent enough time on those things. People should take you at your word.
But, if you want a successful career, the metrics are different. And if that's the goal, then I can't automatically take it on faith that you've spent sufficient time on those things. No way to know without hearing the songs. And, based on heuristic likelihood, without any further info, you probably should spend more time on those other things.
I'm less concerned about helping people in the former situation, because (and this is not a bad thing), the way they make themselves feel by making the music is the important question.
The latter situation is more complex (because the listeners + the rest of the industry get a say in whether you make a living!), and so it demands more blunt honesty about what's happening at each stage of the process. People need to be told "Hey, that's not good enough yet." The problems that need to be solved may or may not be the problems that the person asking thinks need to be solved.
Please understand I'm speaking from both a 20 year career mixing, and from 10+ years of teaching at the college level. My very best students have since gone on to platinum credits, major label deals, at least a couple #1 hits, etc etc.
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u/soulstudios May 11 '26
I agree with the top post here, but want to add: I've seen it happen in gearslutz (back when it was called that) and elsewhere - people with actual credentials (even grammys) show up, answer questions and get talked back to by no-nothing internet engineers with education based on youtubers. The experienced people, over time, evacuate, and the pit is filled with trash.
It also happened with computer experts on GS, and elsewhere. People who actually have experience and do this for a living, don't have time/energy to deal with internet nobodies if they're rude. So you end up with subs or forums full of the people who made the real experts leave. And those are the people who're rude to you when you ask questions.
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u/Poopypantsplanet May 11 '26
"who're" is a crazy contraction lol.
But yeah I agree with you. Sometimes I wonder how many people with "professional" in their flair are actually trained professionals and how many just mixed their friends album and got paid a few hundred bucks for it once so they justify giving themselves the title.
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u/soulstudios May 11 '26
Yah :D "Who're" is a pretty common contraction but it may be less common where you are.
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u/vinylfelix May 10 '26
I found people really helpful here. There is a limit tho. After 4 posts people didn’t want to talk about VSX anymore.
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u/Poopypantsplanet May 10 '26
Most people really are helpful, or at least try to be. There are a few bad apples though, that seem to make it their life's mission to talk down to every person on here who dares to seek knowledge. It's honestly kind of pathetic.
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u/Ereignis23 May 10 '26
Honestly that's what blocking is for
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u/vinylfelix May 10 '26
Yeah which is unfortunate
Because my questions where not bad and sometimes on Reddit I just don’t know what to do. Especially in specific forums like this.
Let’s say I ask: should I buy immersion one
I get 5 people responding: love it !!!
And then the thread dies … 500 views
So I now go searching on reviews sites etc and now o have a second question so I ask
Well, maybe it’s a lot if I then make a 3… on the other hand , is it really the end of the world to now downvote me to hell?
You can just … ignore the topic and move on. At least that is what I would do.
I sometimes wonder what it matters.
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u/Nacnaz May 10 '26
The funny thing about your example is that using a specific synth to get sound *is* getting it right at the source. Like that’s the definition of focusing on the source.
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u/admlemur May 10 '26
The arts are filled with this kind of people. Something something ego.
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u/_corn Hobbyist May 10 '26
because 80% of the posts here are things you could google or have already been asked and answered before. most people don't search the sub for previous posts about what they want nor try and find other places online that might have the info they're looking for. when every other post is asking which daw to use or how a compressor works then of course people get snarky because it's fuckin boring
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u/Poopypantsplanet May 10 '26
Then don't say anything.
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u/_corn Hobbyist May 10 '26
that's not as fun
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u/Poopypantsplanet May 10 '26 edited May 10 '26
Ok but do you realize when you offer someone advice based on assumptions you have about them, you are wasting your OWN time?
And possibly discouraging them from actually getting better?
EDIT: It's very telling that this comment has any downvotes at all? Do you y'all like to discourage people and waste your own time? Ok. Have fun with that.
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u/Prince-of-Shadows May 10 '26
The problem with a "straight forward answer" is that sometimes there isn't one. Often people ask questions based on limited understanding, or misinformation, and want a response in the form of "just do _____", but they are asking for something that's not possible, or the situation is far more nuanced than they are willing to accept.
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u/KS2Problema May 10 '26
Some of us are just looking for other's ideas of how to achieve that last 1-5% of whatever we are trying to achieve, and we don't need an entire sermon about how our entire way of makig music is ass-backwards, from a stranger on the internet that knows nothing about us.
Seems to me that if you're the individual asking strangers for help, it would behoove you to accept their attempts at help gracefully instead of criticizing and attacking them.
If you want to talk about grinding people's gears...
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u/Poopypantsplanet May 11 '26
I don't have to accept people being dickheads gracefully.
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u/KS2Problema May 11 '26 edited May 11 '26
Well, I'll tell you what: if you ever catch me being a dick head to you when all you've done is innocently ask for information, I give you permission to call me to task for my rudeness. I would probably even appreciate it.
But I do get a little gear-ground when I'm sincerely trying to offer information and somebody gets in my face. Or accuses me of being an AI, which - for whatever reason - really grinds my gears.
That said, I've often enjoyed your own sometimes rather arch posts. I like a strong point of view sometimes.
;-)
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u/spaghettibolegdeh May 10 '26
Idk I feel like people should be used to this by now. The internet has always been the least polite way to interact with people.
I'd rather straightforward, curt responses then a whole wall of fluff text before getting to the point.
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u/Poopypantsplanet May 10 '26 edited May 10 '26
without apparently doing much research.
This is the assumptions I'm talking about. I did do research but I wanted to ask reddit as well. That's part OF the research. Sometimes people have good ideas that you can't come up with on your own, or from a google search. And I don't have a km84 to compare to myself.
First trying to make one microphone sound like another is often not a great approach and second seems to miss the point a bit to make a recording sound great.
Yeah, I agree. It is PROBABLY not what will solve a problem. But it is somehow a popular enough idea that multiple plugins that do just that already exist. Again, you're assuming I'm trying to solve an existing problem instead of maybe I just want to start with that to see what happens.
The fact that you are trying to match one microphone to another and say that this is the 1-5% tells me enough.
What exactly does it tell you? See, you're just making assumptions again. LIke seriously. What does it tell you, exactly?
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u/Poopypantsplanet May 10 '26
It also means that you did not try a top end roll end, the most basic thing ever.
Oh but I did. Did you know that you can try something and then seek outside confirmation of other people trying that thing?
shows a fundamental misunderstanding of what you are actually trying to achieve.
Do you know exactly what I am trying to achieve? Like, could you actually tell me what I am trying to achieve...exactly?
Look. If somebody asks what the best knife sharpness is for cutting apples in an apple cutting forum, you have no idea what they are doing with those apples after they cut them, nor is it actually your business. And it doesn't matter, whehter they are puttin them in a pie, a sandwhich, or eating them with peanut butter on top. They asked a very specific question about knife sharpness, and the ultimate use of the apples shouldn't matter to you. And it also doesn't matter if they already are pretty sure of the answer. They may be looking for human confirmation. But again, that doesn't matter and it's not necessary for you to know in order to provide information that they need, IF you know the answer.
The real question is, why does it fucking matter so much to you what I do with that information so much so that you feel the need to questoin my motives or process?
I know what I want, and what I am trying to achieve exactly. You absolutely do not.
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u/SS0NI May 10 '26
The comment you're replying to is right. Asking how to make a mic sound like another misses a lot of context since you incorrectly specified what you want. If you want the recording done on one mic to sound like a recording done with another mic, the solutions are going to be completely different than how you'd make one mic sound like another. Dialing in mic sound would involve stuff like changing the capsule, taking grill off, stuffing it with toilet paper etc. a million different this. The other might have to do with placement, space, preamps & prechannel, plugins.
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u/Poopypantsplanet May 10 '26
If you knew what post he was talking about you would know i did specify that I wanted to know what EQ adjustments I could use to bring a 184 CLOSER to an 84 either in tracking or post. I didn't ask a random broad question about how to get one mic to sound like another.
It's ironic the you are talking to me about context when you completely lack the context of the conversation you are hijacking.
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u/SS0NI May 10 '26
Lmao I read the thread and the context makes this so much worse. You have a point here, but if you weren't the one asking stupid questions you would be the one giving stupid answers. I guess the only place to get quality audio discussion is meeting with actual people in studios and gigs, it's just a circus online.
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u/WiseauSrs May 10 '26
Ding ding ding. Exactly. OP is a "Top 1% Poster". That will tell you everything you need to know about the quality of questions and answers here.
TBH, I didn't even take issue with OP's post until he started acting like a child in the comments.
This is why I always prefer lurking to posting here. I know what type of content gets posted on this platform.
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u/Poopypantsplanet May 11 '26
How exactly is wondering the eq difference between two mics a stupid question?
There are plug-ins that do this. Does that make their developers and everyone that uses them stupid?
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May 11 '26
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u/Poopypantsplanet May 11 '26
You said alot without actually saying much.
If I still don't get it ...you didn't explain yourself well enough.
You said all kinds of things about how asking about the difference in mics misses the point of what makes a record sounds great blah blah blah, yet utterly failed time and again to explain why simply wondering what the eq difference is between a mic, in isolation, is a stupid question.
Just because you fail to see how that quesiton could be applied doesn't make it stupid. It just means you lack imagination.
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u/Poopypantsplanet May 10 '26
People shouldn't have to give a ton of context to "deserve" an answer to a, simple and specific question. That's fucking ridiculous.
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u/Poopypantsplanet May 10 '26
Sure. I'm not saying questions that don't make sense don't need context. Of course they do. Never said that AT ALL
But quesitons that do make sense, simple questions asking for a specific pieace of info that can't be easily found elsewhere, don't actually need context..like AT ALL
Example:
QUESTION: What kind of strings can I put on my guitar to help it sound a little more like a guitar from the 1960s or 1970s folk albums?
ANSWER: Martin Retro Monel strings.
Example of what actually happens here:
QUESTION: What kind of strings can I put on my guitar to help it sound a little more like a guitar from the 1960s or 1970s folk albums?
ANSWER: Why do you want to sound like the 1960s? Strings nowadays are engineered to sound better and clearer then ever before. Back in my day, we spent so much time trying to get our strings to sound bright, and now the kids just want them to sound dull again. Instead of chasing the past, why don't you just focus on playing the guitar better, crafting your own style and do what serves the song best? Have you tried different sets of strings to actually hear what sounds best to your own ears or are you just chasing a trend you saw on youtube?
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u/Poopypantsplanet May 10 '26
But why do YOU need context to answer the question if you know the answer?
My example question is not about arrangement or playing style. It's specifically about strings. No other information is required.
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u/Samsoundrocks Professional May 10 '26
|QUESTION: What kind of strings can I put on my guitar to help it sound a little more like a guitar from the 1960s or 1970s folk albums?
Kind of hard to answer that without knowing what guitar you have, or at least what it sounds like in comparison. Is it brighter? More mids? Too abrasive? Too dull? How are you recording it? DI? Mid-side micing? Or are you old enough to remember sitting in a room with said guitars in the 60s and 70s, and that's your reference?
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u/hippydipster May 10 '26
Asking questions on reddit is doing research. If you want to find it bothersome, should probably just ignore it.
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u/connecticutenjoyer May 10 '26
I wonder what the people on this sub who have this sentiment - "Trying to mimic X thing without these Y factors is actually bad and wrong" - tell clients who make very specific requests. If someone asks you to get a Nick Drake guitar tone and you don't have the "right" gear do you just repeatedly tell them that their request is "stupid" and they're "missing the point"? What happens when they say they want a drum to sound like the sunset- do you point out that sunsets actually don't produce any sound, so their request is literally impossible?
Obviously, on one hand, it's essential to get to a place where, as an engineer, you use your available tools to their fullest potential and you get comfortable with the limitations that brings. OTOH sometimes there are artistic desires that clash with those limitations and you have to break a few "rules" to achieve what you or the client want.
FWIW A lot of what you call "stupid" is how big records are being made nowadays. Pedantry is the very last thing that should stop an artist from realizing their vision
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u/LostInTheRapGame Mixing May 10 '26
I always just assume those people don't know an answer to the question, but still feel compelled to yap in order to feel useful.
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u/gg-allins-parents May 10 '26
ask stupid questions get stupid answers
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u/Poopypantsplanet May 10 '26
No here it's more like "ask simple questions, get long-winded sermons from people who think they are better than you."
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u/gg-allins-parents May 10 '26
write long winded whiny wall of text, get stupid answers
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u/theantnest Professional May 10 '26
You haven't hung out with a lot of audio engineers in real life, have you? Haha
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u/Poopypantsplanet May 10 '26
Is that....an assumption?
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u/theantnest Professional May 10 '26 edited May 10 '26
It was mostly humour, but after a 33 year career I can pretty confidently say that a lot of us can be unhelpful jerks in real life too.
Edit: I personally try to be helpful on reddit, but also a lot of the time I just keep quiet, because of the reasons you have stated. There's always somebody who wants to argue about your answer. Usually some kid who heard something from some youtuber and thinks they know everything.
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u/death_by_chocolate May 10 '26
that already knows the fundamentals.
You're the writer. You're asking the question. Why don't I know what you know? It's a field we're both familiar with. How is it I don't know what kind of answer you're looking for? It's because you didn't tell me. You were not clear, you were being vague, you were just not bothering with 'trivial stuff'. Your grammar is fucked, your nomenclature is ambiguous, your ask doesn't make sense.
And yet you expect me to start all the way back at the beginning and clarify every statement you have made just so I can help you. 'What did you mean by this? What did you mean by that?' No. Just no. Especially now with AI chatbots capable of formulating sentences that convey no useful information, the accelerating dearth of language skill and clarity is becoming painfully difficult to ignore. It's especially ironic framed (as here) as an exercise in results-oriented efficiency.
Improve your language skills, ask better questions, and you'll get more succinct responses. It does give me pause when folks insist on just being given the answer. Don't make work for me and then expect to earn that.
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u/GreatScottCreates Professional May 10 '26
Engineers are prickly.
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u/Poopypantsplanet May 10 '26
They should try smoothing out some of those frequencies then, before being a jerk to others.
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u/faders May 10 '26
I try to keep it short to assure people that a lot of things aren’t that complicated and not to get too worried about it. If the OP wants more info they can ask more questions. It’s not nearly as condescending here as it was on gearslutz or any facebook group. I think this is a pretty good community. r/livesound is great too.
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u/LocksmithHot3849 May 10 '26
An amateur anthropologist take:
If you've been around people in any profession for some time, you might start to develop some stereotype ideas of their personalities.
It of course won't mean that every drummer, bass player, actor, university professor, hockey player, linux developer, waitress, bank manager, dancer, or audio engineer will be the same, or 100 % predictable, or that everyone will have those traits. But there might be either an overrepresentation of some personality types, or it could be that certain skillsets co-vary with personality traits. Or simply that sitting behind a desk all day having to conform to the whims of a steady stream of 21 year old "artists" creates a need for venting at anonymous persons that sound like 21 year old artists, but in a safe non-career limiting way. In addition, majority culture or guild ideals (or online forums) can shape how individuals supress some personality traits to fit in, emphasise others.
I have been in a different line of work for a long time now, but have met maybe 50 different AEs over the years. And my stereotype idea of an AE is a male in his early 40s who's grumpy at amateurs that don't understand or appreciate the trade, maybe has some neurodivergence making him good at trade specific stuff, but with an accompanying lowered ability to see what might be hurtful to others, some might have a fair share of supressed anger from being around nervous semi-talented performers all the time that it would be unwise to shout at, etc etc.
To restate: This generalised impression does of course not apply to every individual. But I've found sufficient over-representation to develop my inner stereotype, and with sufficient individuals to shape a certain tone in a subreddit.
Thanks for coming to my TED Talk
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u/OAlonso Professional May 10 '26
I bet most of those comments that sound rude weren’t intended to be rude. Advice or criticism in text form tends to come across much harsher than it would in person, because you can’t see the speaker’s face or hear their tone of voice. So don’t take it personally. Most people are just trying to help and share what they know or believe. If the advice was useful, then take what helps you and move on. Don’t waste energy fighting over random internet comments. Just focus on the words themselves, and don’t assume everything is hostile unless someone is directly insulting you, stupid asshole… nah, I’m kidding! I love you.
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u/Poopypantsplanet May 10 '26
To be honest, I would rather somebody just be rude and brash and straightforward and just tell me it's a stupid question or to fuck off. I can easily just block and ignore.
It's the assumptions about what I know and do not know, which lead into them taking it upon themselves to "educate" me in the most condescending way, that drives me up the wall.
I love you to!
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u/WhatsTheGoalieDoing May 10 '26
Now techinically, that's good advice, in a vaccuum, like audioengineering 101
Yeah. Shockingly, this is a community for audio engineers, not people who don't know how to use Google.
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u/Poopypantsplanet May 10 '26
You're assuming they didn't Google it first.
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u/DontMemeAtMe May 10 '26
Then perhaps they should simply spend more time with it. The majority of the beginner questions have already been asked and answered countless times. If people genuinely put the effort in, they’ll find the answers. If they don’t, and instead jump onto a forum expecting experienced members to act as search assistants, they’re likely to get snarky responses. It’s really not more complex than that.
The core issue is inherent to almost any enthusiast community. It typically starts as a small group of knowledgeable individuals, but as it grows, it attracts beginners who soon become the majority, and the overall quality of content and discussion drops dramatically. Long-standing knowledgeable members then find themselves feeling as though they’re losing their club to a flood of lazy newcomers asking the same few questions over and over again. Naturally, that can lead to some degree of annoyance.
If Reddit or other forums offered an option to limit posting and commenting until users had spent a certain amount of time in the community, that might benefit the community as a whole. But of course, that would reduce engagement and make the platform less appealing to advertisers, which is ultimately what Reddit cares about. So, here we are.
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u/Poopypantsplanet May 10 '26
That would also cut off the possibilitiy of beginners from interacting with experienced veterans, that they otherwisee wouldn't have access to. Sounds like gatekeeping to me.
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u/DontMemeAtMe May 10 '26
Not really. They’d still have that possibility. It would just be delayed a bit, which would be beneficial because it would push newcomers to learn the basics first before interacting with the more experienced crowd. It would be a win-win situation for everyone.
Besides, you could always have a dedicated space for beginners where more experienced members could come and help if they wanted to.
The main issue is that when everything is open to everyone all the time, there are effectively no spaces left for experienced users, because everything becomes dominated by beginners and low-effort, low-quality posts. This only leads to the more knowledgeable members becoming either snarky or simply leaving. That’s not really a winning situation for anyone.
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u/narutonaruto Professional May 10 '26
It’s a case by case thing but there is a lot of really bad info on the internet that leads people away from the fundamentals and lean more on stupid little tricks and stuff so some people might be just trying to help guide people back to the important stuff.
And I’m sure a lot of people are just smug lol
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u/Poopypantsplanet May 10 '26
There's nothing wrong with reminding people of the fundamentals once in a while. I agree. I trie to remind myself of them.
Stupid tricks for beginners are mostly harmful. Stupid little bits of gear knowledge or how to emulate X for people who already are very famliar with the fundamentals, have experience, and are confident in their goals and what they want to achieve, are the opposite. They are inspiring little morsels that make things more fun. Little presents to open after working hard to get where you are, because you kow not to rely on them, because you don't have to. You can just take em or leave em.
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u/TimedogGAF May 10 '26
The same questions get asked over and over by beginners so it's easy to sniff out.
The ideal solution is to both answer the question directly (in case the person isn't a beginner and actually knows what they're doing and is asking for a very specific reason and already know of the pitfalls) and also give the unsolicited advice part while stating all assumptions.
This solves all real, non ego-based issues.
It sucks when I'm searching and someone has the exact question I have but instead of getting an answer the replies all give alternatives.instead of answering the question. But people that are probably doing something misguided should also be given advice that will likely put them on the right track. Both things can be achieved at once.
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u/Remarkable-Royal-448 May 12 '26
Tbh such advice is even bad for someone without any knowledge, how the fuck would they know where to place a mic for that specific sound, sometimes I need to place a mic both ways to even make up my mind. How the fuck would anyone with hardly trained ears be expected to EQ right, especially when there's hardly any right and wrongs anymore rn, and so much comes down to philosophy, same with other processing, it's just nuts!
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u/Poopypantsplanet May 12 '26
Certain fundamentals translate across all audio engineering but when so much comes down to taste and what "sounds good", it's hard to know sometimes if the advice somebody is offering will even work for a particular song or project. Some of my favorite music is certainly not balanced in a textbook perfect way. It's interesting and creative in ways that you won't learn from someone else.
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u/Junkyard-Sam May 10 '26 edited May 10 '26
EDIT: It could be a range of things, but I think I capture most possibilities in this brain dump:
- A lot of people spend too much time on the internet as an escape from the doldrums of their real lives, but the internet isn't satisfying either. So they're in a state of annoyance and irritation, and are easily set off by things that annoy them. Even small things.
- The internet isn't face-to-face, so it's easier to be rude than it would be in real life. A lot of people don't realize how nasty they come across to others. They might not care even if they did, but most of them wouldn't behave that way in real life.
- The nature of "screens" in general is rapid consumption and the brain is seeking that next dopamine hit. When it doesn't come, a person goes into a state of withdrawal. They get what's called "screen sickness" which is when their brain has been so overstimulated nothing can stimulate it anymore... So they get into heated arguments with people online, because that activates feelings of adrenaline which is the only thing stronger than dopamine.
- Most people need more sleep. A lot of people work hard or long enough that their free time goes by too quickly... Especially when drained by phone-scrolling... Really, some of these people just need more sleep. Or during the day, they need to take a nap. They're like babies that won't go to sleep, or kids that stay up too late and then they're cranky the next day.
- A lot of the same questions get asked over and over again, and people who spend a lot of time on audio forums feel disrespected because someone didn't bother to just search, to see the same question answered 100-1000 other times.
- A lot of people who come in and ask a basic question then respond rudely (or not at all) after someone spends a lot of time giving them a detailed, specific answer. There are some big name audio producers, mix engineers, and mastering engineers who spend some time here and really, we're lucky to have them. A lot of times they don't have "professional" tags, so you kind of just have to learn who they are... But sometimes you'll see them spending time explaining something (and these people are at the highest level you can reach in audio production) -- but people are arguing with them or rude to them, etc... When there's enough of that, they stop coming back.
- So with that last point, sometimes people get bothered that the state of the forum is such that it will drive away more knowledgeable people and be left with people who aren't actually dedicated to this craft. If you want an example of an awful subreddit just look at r / FLStudio.
- There is a diverse range of skill here. Noobs, beginners, intermediates, advanced, and masters. Sometimes people who are higher up on the knowledge scale get annoyed when useless/garbage is drowning out the useful content. Again, especially when the noobs are rude, ungrateful, or don't bother to search for their basic questions before asking.
- There's also the chance that the person responding genuinely intends to be helpful, but they are writing quickly and come across in a way that is completely unintended. Again, without body language it's hard to get a read sometimes. Even if someone adds emoticons, sometimes those come across sarcastically.
Anyhow, that's my deep dive on the topic. Ears are rested. Back to mixing!
PS. There's also the issue of brevity. Something I'm not good at, obviously... But if you're trying to make a point quickly, there's no space for filler words, apologetic tone, etc. You're just stating your information as quickly as possible, and it can come across as terse or harsh to someone who is sensitive, etc.
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u/rinio Audio Software May 10 '26
This cuts both ways.
If we assume everyone know exactly what they are asking and why, those without that information get screwed. And the thread has less information in total. Remember that posts are not just for OP, but future readers who get there from a search engine and may not understand the points that OP knew implicitly.
The other way around, the thread just has more overall information. And the OP is free to disregard with or without a polite acknowledgement. This is better for future readers. And those who are interested in this tangent are free to continue the discussion as they choose.
"Deconstructing someone's entire philosophy behind how they make music" can be a "constructive [thing) to say".
As soon as we start with the kind of gatekeeping and asking people to "stfu" we make this subreddit a worse resource for all. I would ask that you (and all posters) just learn to not take things so personally, let the karma system do its job and filter the discussion and, as you put it, "stfu" :P
You may find those replies exhausting, but some also find the expectation that this sub should be a TikTok echo chamber exhausting. This becomes a much worse place if the only permitted discussion is to reaffirm whatever OP says.
And how would you propose we actually set and enforce what you're asking?
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u/Poopypantsplanet May 10 '26
I wouldn't propose to enforce anything. I would just ask the people try asking OP question like "Did you try X? That might actually be what you're looking for." instead of jumping to an assumption about what they know. That ends up waisting both people's time.
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u/rinio Audio Software May 10 '26
The assumption is built in to the question. The same assumption as "S.O.P is X", "Do X, your proposal Y is worse". I, personally, would be *more* offended with a response like your proposal when X is obvious, because it implies I didnt, whereas the others are a mere statement of fact.
But, then we're just drilling down to politeness policing.
I'm not against being polite, but interpretation of tone on the internet is often lost, were a global community so standards vary. And, quite frankly, media production on general is not an industry where excessive politeness is valued.
IMHO, your request for folk to behave a certain way is the equivalent of advocating for "if you find a comment condescending, ignore it". In both cases were are asking people to behave a certain way based on their subjective interpretation.
You've also conveniently ignored my points about future readers and the value of tangential discussions.
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u/Poopypantsplanet May 10 '26
interpretation of tone on the internet is often lost
Which is why people shouldn't make assumptions. And no, the assumption is not built into the question. That's why its a...question.
you've also conveniently ignored my points about future readers and the value of tangential discussions.
discussions can still be valuable for future readers without a bunch of assholes arguing with eachother.
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u/rinio Audio Software May 10 '26
The question can, and often would in the context of a subreddit, have the assumption built-in in all but the most narrow and literal reading.
I did not advocate for anyone to be an asshole. But why does it matter to anyone, other than those assholes, if the assholes are arguing amongst themselves? Again, the same stfu youre trying to apply to them, can be applied to everyone who isnt interested.
Its a public forum. Let the public have the discourse they want to engage in and ignore the discourse they don't.
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u/Poopypantsplanet May 10 '26
When did it suddenly become too much to ask for some common decency in this fucked up world?
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u/rinio Audio Software May 10 '26
I never said otherwise.
But, as established, your interpretation of "common decency" is not universal.
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u/Biliunas May 10 '26
Folks here love music and hate people. Also, who made you the subreddit police? We always get butthurt novices complaining about "useless advice" when in fact, it's the other way round. The answer that is just given to you, is useless. What we're trying to do, is make people think for themselves!
Honestly, when people complain about this, all I can think of was my first mentor, who called everyone slurs, refused to answer any questions without first saying "feck off" and in general was not the guy to hang out with after two beers. But I learned a lot from him, simply because I was thick skinned and found his demeanor pretty funny.
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u/Poopypantsplanet May 10 '26
I think you might actually be making some assumptions of your own? It doesn't get under my skin. It's a comment on my screen.
I do, however, care about people who are here to actually learn. I worry about them getting discouraged. It's not a lot to ask when it basically amounts to just keeping quiet.
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u/Biliunas May 10 '26
You are not the first and prolly won't be the last to complain about this. No offense meant to you specifically, it's just a bit tiring to keep answering this same question again and again.
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u/Poopypantsplanet May 10 '26 edited May 10 '26
Haven't ever seen it brought up. I've only ever seen the opposite, where people with "professional" in their flair complain about people asking stupid questions and tainting the blessed purity of their forum.
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u/Justcuriousdudee May 10 '26
Oh it’s because it’s very very likely that some of these “innocent” looking question posts may just be someone’s attempt to train their AI on our answers.
A lot of these questions, I see the posts and I just can’t help but think? You have “YouTube university” yet.. you come on here asking the most mundane questions? It’s quite paradoxical.
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u/Poopypantsplanet May 10 '26
Sometimes I prefer asking a question on here because I don't want to ask AI and slogging through endless YouTube trash takes forever.
On reddit you can kind of balance the best answers against each other and it gives you a better direction to head in than blindly watching shitty tutorials or scraping ancient gear space forums.
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u/Est-Tech79 Professional May 10 '26
"And you have no idea if somebody has already done those things or not. It grinds my gears when somebody starts assuming that I haven't FIRST done all of those things, because I have."
Exactly, no one knows that. It’s frustrating when people assume you haven’t done the basics, but since no one knows your history, you have to be specific and provide that information. Like calling apple tech support or prompting an LLM to get the right answer.
When starting out, I appreciated when pros gave me starting points instead of just answers. On my first day as an intern, I asked how to make drums hit harder. I was told to go play with the attack/release on the dbx 166s. I spent hours alone in a room until I finally understood the unit, and when I reported back, my mentor’s next step was having another engineer explain the SSL "smash bus." It felt harsh, but it taught me how to fish. I taught me the ins and outs of the units and the process and expanded my skills.
So, when you hear "turn the knobs until it sounds good" or "focus on the arrangement," don’t automatically assume condescension. You may be getting breadcrumbs to truly build your skills and point you in the correct direction as you are looking for direction. Sometimes there isn't a specific answer as this is a creative endeavor and there is only a general direction and not a hard n fast rule. Audio forums are at a disadvantage because, unlike graphic subs full of graphics, we can’t hear your audio.
Also, tone is tough to convey in a text/post unless you qualify everything with "don't take this the wrong way.." or "I'm just trying to help..."
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u/USxMARINE Tracking May 10 '26
Welcome to the arts. It's quite pretentious and silly here.
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u/Poopypantsplanet May 10 '26
I know. I've been here for a quite a while. Still worth calling out sometimes.
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u/manysounds Professional May 11 '26
One time, one era, way back when, nobody would tell you anything at all.
You had to work in a studio or work on it yourself and good luck.
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May 12 '26
Word of advice, chill out. Even if someone gives you an answer you dont like; maybe they tell you to go read the manual, watch a masterclass, tell you to break out of your mold, etc. it's unfair to assume they're being shitty. That advice could actually help someone. Just because it pisses you off doesnt mean it's invalid. They're literally trying to help you.
You're talking about anonymous humans on the internet. You're also adding snark and unpleasant vibes to shit that really doesn't need it. Expect people to be egotistical dicks, or maybe even tell you to do some research with verified sources when you start asking for answers to technical questions from unaccredited strangers on the internet in a public forum.
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u/ThesisWarrior May 13 '26 edited May 13 '26
Condescending girth sounds menacing...seriously though follow your instinct, put on your sensible filter glasses and slowly digest comments that actually provide meaning and insight.
Learn to casually breeze or entirely skip through dismissive, negative, know it all or insulting responses. Unfortunately not everyone is here is balanced, happy or actually doing this for pure pleasure.
Your observation is more one of the entire human condition and world than music per se.
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u/Red_PillCosby Professional May 14 '26
Everybody makes fun of me for using sausage fattener on the master bus but it’s honestly great. I don’t get it either.
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May 10 '26
[deleted]
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u/Poopypantsplanet May 10 '26
Sure let's blame them the mods instead the people making dickhead comments.
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u/RelativeBuilding3480 May 10 '26
This is Reddit.
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u/weedywet Professional May 10 '26
It somewhat depends, I think, on HOW questions are asked.
For example, there’s no reasonable or sensible answer to “I play and record everything myself at home and I want to sound just like Dark Side Of The Moon. What plug ins do I need?”
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u/Bradnon May 10 '26 edited Jul 04 '26
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