r/audioengineering • u/SignificanceNo7594 • 2d ago
Discussion First time mic ing drums advice
Hi all im recording a project for a friend with a indie/soul vibe normally i program the drums or use pre recorded breaks or samples but he wants it to be an actual physical kit on a lot of tracks.
He has this electrovoice 635a microphone that he uses for guitar but says it should also sound good on drums as a possible room mic or something like that.
we are using our schools studio which has a lot of other kinds of microphones, if anyone has any helpful advice on this type of stuff or techniques/preamps/etc please let us know!!
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u/Mecanatron 2d ago
I would think the genre calls for less, rather than more.
If I was recording soul, 4 mics (OHs, kick & snare) would be enough but I could live with 2 (Mono OH & kick).
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u/SignificanceNo7594 2d ago
yeah hes definitely not using the whole kit maybe only for some fills but its groove heavy w mainly kick snare and hat stuff yk, thank you!
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u/weedywet Professional 2d ago
If you haven’t done this before I very much recommend starting extremely simply.
Maybe one mic overhead, a mic in the bass drum, and a mic on the snare.
Perhaps use his 635 (which is an omni by the way) as a room mic.
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u/IBartman 2d ago
It's a big topic really, but prioritize the sound of the room -> sound of kit -> mic choice/placement -> proper level setting -> getting a good performance -> proper mixing inside the DAW and phase alignment -> processing direct channels and buses with eq and compression/saturation
Use your ears and don't do anything for the sake of doing it. Focus on getting a good overhead sound first and foremost and then mix the direct mics under them only to the point of providing any oomph that's missing
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u/tuomosipola 2d ago
With two mics, you could try the Recorderman method. One microphone over the snare, another on the other side of the drummer. Make the distance to snare and kick drum equal for both microphones. I have used this and it worked the one time I recorded drums. We used generic condenser microphones.
If we had had three microphones, I could have improved it by adding a dedicated kick drum microphone. (Nearing the Glyn Johns technique.)
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u/StudioatSFL Professional 2d ago
Way too broad of a question. This is a prime example of using YouTube.
Mic placement and how many mics you have will be far more important than the preamps. Especially as a beginner.
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u/Tall_Category_304 2d ago
For an old school soul kind vibe I’d stick to two Tom’s, hh ride and crash. Mic in glen johns with spot mics just in case. That’s what I’d do. Spaced pair room mics but I may just use one as a mono room when mixing. It’s nice to have the option for stereo though
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u/cosmicguss Professional 2d ago
Use the 635 as a mono overhead measured about 2 drumsticks length over the snare on the hihat side, sm57 on snare top measured about 3 fingers over the rim of the snare pointed at the center of the drum head, if your school has a d12 or d12vr (not d112) use that for kick, if not use an re20 or 421.
If the song calls for a lot of toms mic them up with 421’s or sm57’s, just one rack tom and on floor tom ideally.
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u/Hathaur 2d ago
find out what your mic inventory is to work with first. Once you have a list, figure out how many channels you can record at once. Once you have a mic list and channel count, then you can decide where to put which mic.
Priority typically goes something along the lines of Overhead L, Overhead R Stereo Pair. Lots of options for how to do this exactly ORTF, XY, AB, Mid-side, etc. Then Kick, Snare, Toms. Once you've got all the shells and overheads in place, it's really going to depend on specifics about genre, kit, player, room, etc.
Depending on mic/channel count limits it might be better to do a mono overhead and a kick mic, or some other creative combo. One mic in front of the drums and one near/next to the drummer.
Other general guidelines. Dynamics on shells, condensers as overheads/cymbals. pay attention to phasing and spacing between mics and how they bleed into each other. the whole kit wants to sound like one big instrument typically not 8 channels of individual stuff. Get the drum to sound right first before you worry about micing it and processing it. While you're at it worry more about the player, the room, the part/arrangement before worrying about the mics and the processing.
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u/IcyRole6982 2d ago
There are great tutorials on YouTube. Most important thing is properly tuning the drums before and every 3 takes
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u/StupidZombieFlanders 2d ago
use the EV as a crotch/wurst mic. I'm doing a Glyn Johns-style setup right now but my EV (I can't remember the new model's number but it's the modern 635) as the crotch mic no matter what setup--4:1 on a dbx 160 and you have a solid glue track. then use whatever mics they have at the studio
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u/LocksmithHot3849 2d ago
RE50 is the modern 635a. More or less the same mic housed inside a bit more shock protection to reduce handling noise when used as a reporter's handheld.
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u/StupidZombieFlanders 2d ago
Oh I would add: just make sure to put it where the snare and toms all sound even. I just eyeballed the 'center' between the snare and toms, put the mic where you see it there, and it sounds pretty good
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u/alex_esc Assistant 2d ago
It all depends on the songs themselves and what gear you have at the studio. But a general sort of advice would be to use a minimal amount of mics.
You could very easily do 16 to 24+ mics on a drum kit, but in my experience the more soul style recordings benefit from having other instruments be the focus, so you can get away with less mics on the drums.
I would try this: A mono overhead (large diaphragm condenser or a ribbon if possible), SM57 on the snare top, no snare bottom, 421 on the kick in (or any dynamic, re20 if possible), AKGd112 on kick out, no room mics.
In rock or pop music you'd have the vocals in the middle, the bass in the center, and guitars and keys on the sides. On rock or pop songs with little guitars or keys on the sides you need to fill out the sides with something, and in those cases having lots of wide room mics is fine.
But in soul or some types of RnB you want the effects and keys to fill out the sides. If you have wide room mics your sides will be stuffed with effects, vocals, keys samples and drum rooms. So I think that it's wiser to straight up use no room mics at all to give space in the sides to other elements.
Of course this depends on the song, but generally in soul you don't get big and wide roomy drums.
I'd add two extra "character" mics. I'd add a mic pointed at the drummers head. Use a SM57 as talkback as you work, but while you're there record that mic. In the mix (or during tracking with hardware) you can slam it into an 1176 and that makes the attack sound crazy. Plus that mic once super compressed works as a "mono room" if you do end up needing a bit of ambience.
The second character mic id add is a "knee" mic. This is a mic pointed at the drummers knee, but placed just over the kick drum. If the knee mic is placed properly it will be very close to both the kick and the snare, giving you a great balance of kick and snare you can blend in.
This knee mic also tends to have very nice kick drum high end click sound. Sometimes when I'm not getting enough click on the bass drum and the session is running I prefer to quickly add a knee mic.
I would pick an omnidirectional mic for the knee mic and apparently your friends EV 635A is omnidirectional! I would use that in the knee position, Google knee mic for more info on positioning. And if the results are good make sure to post em because I'm always on the lookout for good knee mics. If yours turns out great I might just buy my own 635A hehe
Oh and just put dynamics on the toms lol ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Good luck!
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u/SignificanceNo7594 2d ago
thank you you have no idea how much this is gonna help us out 😊, your tip about slamming the head character mic into the pre is really interesting ive never heard of that technique but that sounds very exciting to do
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u/SignificanceNo7594 2d ago
if the results are good ill definitely reach back out to you ab the knee mic! we got lucky at a local garage sale where the guy was a old producer in the 70s and 80s and had a crazy amount of vintage stuff
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u/Financial-Koala6995 2d ago
The 1176 mentioned there is a compressor, so they mean heavily compressing that extra mic, not clipping the mic preamp. You can record it clean and try the compression afterward, then blend it under the main drum mics.
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u/Virtual-Minute4115 2d ago
Just make sure the drums are tuned up to start. Most important. And played great. Then just capture the performance. Use what you have. Been recording drums since the 90's and am still learning new ways. Most important, tuned up and played well. Good times. And a good room Def helps
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u/SignificanceNo7594 2d ago
thanks!
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u/Dingditcher 2d ago
I second the good playing and tuning. I’m a drummer myself, and I play live differently than when I record. No need to smash the cymbals so hard. That was a bit hard for me to learn.
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u/SignificanceNo7594 2d ago
yeah im thinking ab having them record softer so we can pump it a bit yk and im aslo tryna damoen the kit alot ty
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u/BINAYAUDIO 2d ago
Focus on getting the drums to sound good. Spend more time on tuning, prepping the drums than mic choice etc. A good sounding drum kit will sound good with an audix or neumann mic but a bad sounding drum kit won't sound good with the best mics in the best studio.
About mics go with the classics, when you have more time in a studio you can start playing with the mics and recording techniques.
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u/Farmer-Fitz 2d ago
How long is your session, and do you have access to the studio to set up before the talent shows up?
If possible, I always like to have mics on stands and at line tested before bringing the drummer in. Have the drummer set the kit up to their liking, and then give the drummer a smoke break while you put the mics where you want them. (If you don’t do this, they will hit the kick at full power when your head is in the drum.)
Once you have the mics where you think they should be, call the drummer back in. Spend a little (and just a little) time adjusting mic placement to get the tone you’re looking for, and also to accommodate their playing style. Nothing kills a take (and a microphone) quite like a stick thwacking the element.
Another thing you should absolutely do is record samples of each individual component of the kit. If you need to replace a flubbed note later on, this will save your bacon!
Have fun!
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u/Virtual-Minute4115 2d ago
Remember, it's not rocket science. Have fun!! Never gets old. Your ears are the best plugin...hopefully 😎
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u/Spede2 2d ago
Unless the space you're recording in was designed for recording in mind or the space just happens to sound particularly good, don't bother with room mics, especially mono. Rather use it as a hihat/ride/whatever spot mic instead. This is assuming you already have a solid kit mic setup like OH or so.
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u/jaygordon1971 1d ago
It's already been said but I have to agree...start with a good sounding kit..duct tape or moon gel the ring out of each drum. Make sure they are in tune. Then close mic each drum and put up a couple overheads. Phase everything off the snare top and you should get some decent tracks. Pay attention to your levels...hit em as hard as you can without clipping and have fun...micing up and recording drums is my favorite part of the recording process. Just finished my bands new album..PsyChlo ...album is called controlled chaos...check it out...cheap mics recorded on zoom l20 and end result ain't too shabby for a no budget production
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u/Selig_Audio 16h ago
If you’ve never done it before (and if possible), sit in on someone else’s session and watch/listen to what they do. When I started out I was basically just copying the engineers I was assisting at the time. I gradually developed my own approach, once I knew what worked! Otherwise you may end up wasting everyones time since you won’t likely be able to work quickly the first few times you deal with recording a full kit (even with minimal micing).
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u/Inside-Succotash-128 1d ago
All of the advice about “keep it simple” etc.. is good. But, if you have the mics, the inputs, and the time…….. Put them EVERYWHERE!! (Underneath the sofa/Top corner of the room/ Tape one to the drummer’s chest! 😀) The point is - you won’t fully know what sounds great/really works until later on in the process. So, capture as much as you can in as many different ways as you can……… errrrr, while you can. 😀👍
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u/Financial-Koala6995 1d ago
I'd leave those experiments until they've got a usable take from the basic setup. For a first drum session, getting the kit balanced in three or four mics is already plenty to learn; the extra channels aren't free if they eat the session time.
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u/thatsoundguy23 2d ago
Because nobody has said it yet:
Mics won't make a difference if the kit sounds like garbage!
Are you using a kit that one of you own, or the school's? If it's yours, put fresh heads on everything, if you can, or at least snare. If it's the school's kit, ask if they have any heads to put on it. Even if you have to offer to do it for them (I would actually rather do it for them).
Once you've got new heads on, tune the kit. Some people tune it to the key of the track (I've done this and it can be cool), otherwise just tune it so it sounds how you hear it in your head.
If things are ringy, and you don't want that, use some moon gel or something to dampen the resonances. If you want a really dead snare, maybe rest your wallet on it.
Check the kick pedal for squeaks!!! This is easy to miss and can't be undone in the mix. Give it a bit of grease if it does squeak.
Can't think of I've missed anything. Hopefully someone else will chime in and point out anything else. It's boring but pre-production is probably more important than mic choice to getting a good sound.