r/australia • u/periodicchemistrypun • 1d ago
no politics If a letter gets lost in the mail with valuable stuff in it, should the sender comp?
First off, it’s not drugs, it’s magic the gathering cards and we’d not discussed tracked or untracked mail but I paid postage.
I’m stuck summing and ahhing over whether or not none falls on the sender.
Maybe I just want to see it heard but what do you think, if he’s gone for cheap postage and it’s lost am I right to feel he’s not upheld his side?
Also he can’t document the postage because he bulk bought the envelopes.
Edit: got a refund, thank you lovely people. Enjoy your weekends!
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u/yen- 1d ago
The correct course of action would be for the seller to refund the buyer first, and for the seller to then claim the loss with AusPost.
Sellers def shouldn’t be sending valuable goods in untracked letter mail, but if he’s bulk-bought prepaid tracked AusPost envelopes, he should have provided you with a tracking number. That’s the price of doing business.
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u/periodicchemistrypun 17h ago
Thankfully he gave a refund. Thank you, you’ve explained it well and now I’m sorted.
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u/Delicious_Smell_3369 17h ago
He sent it in an envelope auspost have no reappnsibility to compensate
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u/KawasakiMetro 1d ago
Probably the sender.
I mean anyone can say they posted something.
Doesnt mean they actually did post it!
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u/HeftyArgument 1d ago
that's why they should've not been cheapskates and paid for registered post and insured the contents.
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u/Terri23 1d ago
If I was sending drugs through the mail, I'd absolutely insist that were Magic The Gathering cards too.
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u/Wallet_Inspector6052 1d ago
Drugs are cheaper than Magic the Gathering tbh
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u/periodicchemistrypun 16h ago
I’d rather say it was drugs, if I had a date that wanted to try some I would rather it took less time
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u/Inevitable--Salt 1d ago
As someone who just had a Mycosynth Golem + some other cards lost in the post the week before PAX... the responsibility falls on the sender. I had it explained to me from AusPost when I was trying to find the cards that letters over a certain thickness can get jammed, and fail to process.
I'm not sure if whoever you purchased the cards from used a toploader or not, or how many cards they posted at once, but using a letter size for shipping increases the risks apparently. AusPost strongly suggests using at least registered, tracked post for sending TCGs through the mail, or for any purchase more than just a couple of cards using a padded envelope instead.
Sorry about your cardboard pal.
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u/periodicchemistrypun 16h ago
Thank you. Was some hobbit box toppers and a couple upgrades to my decks.
I’ve gotten a refund. Will look to get some of those cards elsewhere
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u/drunkenflagpost 1d ago
I use to work in a card game and board game shop where we did ship some cards. These days I'm still very involved and do big orders for tcg cards online both through commerical business as well as facebook marketplace and eBay, and sell stuff occasionally as well.
Basically what matters is where/who you purchased it from and how you paid. If you purchased through a business or something then it is on them and they should offer a refund or replacement. Also if you paid via PayPal they should have the ability to have some buyer proctections unless you sent the money as friends and family or whatever it's called.
If you purchased from some random dude on Facebook you're kind of shit out of luck. If you purchased from a random dude via eBay then it has systems where you can start disputes and stuff and handle it all on their platform.
If a card is over $20 I will always send as registered post at the least to avoid situations like this.
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u/ThoughtIknewyouthen 1d ago
If you've paid postage then he's bound to provide the product that has been posted. The liability only ends once you confirm receipt. That's only the sender, by every legal agreement possible.
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u/Most-Drive-3347 1d ago
All packages are covered for $100, the sender needs to lodge a missing package investigation with Auspost.
So anything up to $100 should hopefully be easy.
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u/Prize_Background_577 1d ago
Yes this. Sender needs to lodge a form with Aust Post and see if they can find it (even without tracking) or compensate.
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u/rileyg98 1d ago
Your contract is with the sender to provide you a good. If ausoost loses it, the seller has not fulfilled their contract.
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u/Supreme-Bob 1d ago
You bought the items, seller contracted the delivery to someone (doesn't matter who). You haven't received the goods you paid for. Delivery is not on the buyer unless they organised it themselves to pick up from the seller.
Seller is liable to deliver the goods you ordered or refund the price paid.
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u/Iotah 1d ago
if the value of the item is over $100 and you didn't pay for insurance then it's on you for taking that risk
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u/birdy_the_scarecrow 1d ago
this is rubbish, there is nothing that shipping insurance gives you other than a more speedy resolution.
its literally a junk fee unless you are desparate to have any issues resolved ASAP.
Under the Australian Consumer Law (ACL), the retailer is legally responsible for ensuring your items arrive safely at your door. If a package is lost, damaged in transit, or stolen before it reaches you, the business is generally obligated to provide a refund or replacement—regardless of whether you paid for extra "shipping protection" at the checkout
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u/Iotah 1d ago
yes the business is required to do so, but clearly this is not a proper retail transaction taking place. if the sender isn't able to get auspost to reimburse them for the cost of the item, they're not likely to just refund OP out of the goodness of their heart. if I was buying trading cards via payid from some schmuck on marketplace I would be well aware of something goes wrong I'm unlikely to be looked after
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u/birdy_the_scarecrow 1d ago edited 1d ago
unless this is literally an off the books private sale, or from overseas then the seller is liable here.
even a "private sale" via a platform like ebay then the platform has to offer the consumer buyers protection under the ACL.
whatever arrangements between the platform and the seller are between them but the consumer is always protected.
but either way, for the context of shipping insurance, there is basically never a need to do this as a consumer, it doesnt protect the consumer at all, it protects the seller.
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u/OBNOXIOUSNAME 1d ago
nah that's bullshit, it's on him. if he can't document postage you can't prove that he even sent it and more importantly he can't prove that you received it (not saying that you did).
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u/Mickus_B 1d ago
Well, if they can't prove they sent it, how do you know they actually did?
Sellers should always use registered post, it has some insurance on it and it's much harder for the postie to "misplace" it if that's a concern.
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u/Bookhaki80 1d ago
Where did you buy them from?
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u/periodicchemistrypun 1d ago
Facebook marketplace. Not a lot of help I’d guess
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u/universe93 1d ago
Are you sure he actually sent them? Because if it’s an untracked letter you have no proof he even sent you anything
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u/Bookhaki80 1d ago
You might be out of luck, FB marketplace can be real shit unfortunately.
As an aside, most dedicated MTG selling groups (private) have rules to say the seller takes the risk for postage. That being said I have seen several posts where something goes missing the seller refunds half
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u/gooder_name 10h ago
Sender’s responsibility to get it to you. If it’s not tracked there’s no way to know they even posted anything. Anyone selling magic cards else head isn’t in their arse knows this
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u/PoisonTurtles 1d ago
I had a card order get destroyed by AusPosts sorting machines, so while not the exact same situation it may apply. AusPost essentially told me sending cards in a letter is not a suitable method and I was shit out of luck as far as them refunding me. Thankfully the sender just gave me my money back but they probably could have told me to get stuffed and I would have had no recourse
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u/chalk_in_boots 1d ago
Fuck it'd probably be cheaper if it was drugs.
End of the day, you paid for goods, seller is responsible for making sure those goods get to you. If you went to a café, ordered and paid for a coffee, and the barista spilled it before handing it to you, that's on them (possibly quite literally). Until the goods are in your hands it's their problem to deal with.
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u/Shhwong 1d ago
As an eBay seller of tgc singles, I'll refund the buyer if an item is shipped without tracking and gets lost.
That being said, out of over 500 sales, I've only ever had 2 buyers claim "item not received" from untracked items.
Untracked is cheaper however you run the risk of items getting lost and having to refund. Because of this I only sent items untracked if the value is under $15.
Tracked is a larger cost but at least the seller is covered.
If you bought through eBay, you can get a refund, however it sounds like it was a private deal which can complicate things. Hopefully the seller refunds you and treats it as a learning experience for next time.
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u/FreakstaZA 1d ago
I have a small side business in which I almost exclusively sent stuff via untracked letters (large and small)
Non delivery rate is extremely low (way less than 1%) and even then I don't actually if the person on the other side is being honest or not.
That being said, it's my business decision to send untracked to keep costs down. I will always offer to resend or refund if some says they haven't received it. If it's a few days from expected I'll always say more than happy to refund after x date just to give it a day or two to flush out.
Ask for evidence of being sent? I always take a photo of my shipments for the day at the post office on the post office desk.
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u/Fraerie 1d ago
Anything of value being shipped should be insured against loss or damage. Generally the insurance is organised by the shipper but paid for - either in the cost of the purchase or as an additional line item if optional and at the discretion of the buyer - by the buyer.
The seller would make a claim of the item fails to arrive intact, and refund the buyer. Proof would be required.
If you don’t want to pay for insurance, the risk is yours.
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u/nutterz13 1d ago
if the seller didn't skimp on postage they are entitled to insurance from AP. However you shouldn't bear the cost of the loss.
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u/cleanworkaccount0 1d ago
If it's not valuable enough to track, it's not worth reimbursing/comping. Although I probably wouldn't buy from them again.
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u/mynamestartswithaZ 1d ago
If you did a bank transfer, put in a claim that goods weren't received. They'll either refund or not.
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u/Aggressive_Visit7043 21h ago
As a buyer I would always want to have it sent as a package or as a letter with tracking or registered, otherwise there is no tracking, no compensation, and no proof the letter was even sent. It could be the seller is honest and that the letter was lost of stolen.
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u/jimmy_the_flid 1d ago
The seller is the customer so they always need to take it up with the post office. You should get a refund. If you used PayPal, start a PayPal dispute.
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u/thiccandsmol 21h ago
The sender should refund if that was what the terms and conditions stated. It's on the buyer for buying without contractual coverage if goods are lost in shipping. Don't buy if you aren't covered by the terms of sale; whether there is insurance or a track number isn't your problem. If they offer shipping with and without insurance, don't buy without buying insurance if you don't want to take the risk.
If there was insurance, then the seller refunds you and pursues their claim with the post company. If they self insure, then they refund you and eat the loss. If you bought it and you had in writing it was insured and trackable, and they don't refund you in a reasonable time frame, then you charge back and use that as evidence, and the seller recoups from their insurance if it exists, or they eat it if it didn't exist.
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