r/bahai • u/Repulsive-Ad7501 • 8d ago
Polyamory
Our transitioning adult daughter, who has left the Faith over LBGTQ issues, hit us the other night with her belief that relationships and society would function better if we all just accepted that we were meant to be polyamorous. I have all sorts of answers to this but just wanted to ask the community how others would respond to this. Obviously, Baha'is support monogamy and chastity/fidelity. But how do you explain to someone who is sitting on the fence about whether God even exists. I'm hoping people can respond with more than "Baha'u'llah says so."
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u/yaspart 8d ago
Religion aside, relationship science doesn't agree with that statement.
I hesitate to add more; it probably isn't a good time to be doing the whole back and forth right now. I'm sure this is a very sensitive time for her and the unity of your family and that should be the focus of conversations, along with showing the utmost love towards her during this time. I wouldn't focus on what you don't agree on and focus on what you do agree on and what it means to be a family unit.
Just my two cents and I'm sure you know all of that already. Just want to focus on that instead of how to respond to a heated statement. Prayers for you all!
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u/Repulsive-Ad7501 7d ago
I would be real interested in what you have to say, just for my own info, esp if you're saying relationship science supports monogamy but even if not.
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u/Far_Door8664 8d ago
I would let her try things her own way. Eventually, she’ll realize for herself whether her ideas are right or wrong!
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u/Repulsive-Ad7501 7d ago
Allow me to point out that BPD now includes Oppositional Defiant Disorder! Yes, she'll have to find her own path.
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u/ahumpsters 8d ago
I have friends that tried this life style and all of them grew out of it. It’s not sustainable long term. Just wait, she will change her mind eventually.
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u/Extra_Daft_Benson 8d ago
I think there’s a nugget of truth in that our current culture relies too heavily on our one romantic partner to fulfill every need we have and to be our everything. We need a group of people to love and have emotional intimacy outside of our family- but platonic friends is the healthiest way to fill that need, not polyamory.
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u/Repulsive-Ad7501 7d ago
Agree completely and I worry about a culture that has apps like Tinder and Grindr. It's like we don't have the time or patience to establish true intimacy of the soul or all that is not of the body and so we settle for the corporeal.
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u/nerd_airfryer 8d ago
Not a Bahai myself (still exploring the faith), but let's ask a counter question
Relationships and society would function better if we all just accepted that we were meant to be polyamorous
What's the objective evidence of that?
And
Suppose we become so, What's the point of polyamory? I mean, what do you think a polyamory gives us that monogamy doesn't? Novelty (multiple new bodies, multiple emotional and sexual experiences), less commitment (or "freedom"), curiousity, etc. Each of them is a problem, that's another debate
It's also worth noting that in the past century, polyamory was highly discouraged and disliked thing when compared to today, porn is one of the biggest reasons. Same apply for homosexuality, except the fact that WHO removed homosexuality as a sexual disorder in the latest version (DSM-V)
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u/Repulsive-Ad7501 7d ago
That doesn't exactly mean chastity, though, just serial monagamy at best. And I guess it depends on if you think of polyamory involving a committed polycule {had a GM with this arrangement but one of the women lived way out of state} of whatever size or just you sleep with whoever you want. Does even a polycule commit to raising any kids that come along? Do you vet someone who wants to join? Lots of questions, starting with how do you prevent jealousy?
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u/chromedome919 8d ago
The pain of broken relationships might be just what she needs. Of course you don’t want to see her hurt, but monogamy can be a fortress for well-being. Polygamy doesn’t have that track record.
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u/NelsonMandela7 8d ago edited 8d ago
Sexual ethics and control are culturally in place primarily for the benefit of child bearing and societal stability. Newly fertile adolescents would go absolutely berserk if it were not for strict sexual restrictions imposed by people who are not bathed in hormones. Boys and girls would be procreating without a clue how to deal with the consequences. Ethical controls mirror practical controls. Monogamy causes people to raise children with personal responsibility for the sake of society. Polyamory removes most of those restrictions and allow people to follow their hormones without the wisdom of the ages and results in foolishness an many levels. The benefit is chastity/fidelity is not just right, it's practical.
Oddly, later in life (post-menopausal), many of those considerations cease to exist. The moral and ethical restrictions are there, but there are fewer practical consequences. That may be a different consideration for a different time.
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u/Repulsive-Ad7501 7d ago
Excellent points. We'll have our 53rd anniversary this year, so I do not yet have the experience of being widowed, but I've wondered if your perspective shifts when you're alone, are past child-bearing, and are no longer saving yourself for marriage. I wouldn't willingly be dating in the current milieu if you paid me a million bucks.
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u/Knute5 7d ago
I wonder if the Amish Rumspringa is wiser than we know. Some of our kids want no rules around love and intimacy. I'm afraid they're going to learn too late the downside of this. And although we can share our sincere beliefs, we can't stop them. Perhaps they just have to live the life they insist upon and we pray for them and help them best we can.
But love without trust, intimacy built around making a buffet of other people and their bodies? We live in an age where rejecting this would offend some of our children.
I wonder if we just need to get through this rudderless, hunger-fueled age to reveal how empty and full of useless shiny objects it is.
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u/Agreeable-Status-352 7d ago
How can such a multiple grouping be equitable and satisfying to each person? You can't treat two or more people alike, and if you did - they would feel unequal about it, because each person is so different from each other. It is difficult for two people to have a mutually satisfying relationship. She thinks it will be easier for more?
What is most important for her is to know that you love her no matter what. You don't have to agree with her to show you love her. And, trying to change her mind will only push her away. At the age of 15 each person is responsible for their own selves - hard as that my be for the parent.
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u/8eightmonkeys 7d ago
There is a prefrontal cortex in the human brain that is responsible for decision-making. It finishes developing at around the age of 25, meaning that until the age of 25 people make strange decisions that can ruin their lives. Please understand that strange-behavior-that-ruins-one's-own-life is normal up to the age of 25.
Although even after the age of 25, women are statistically more dissatisfied with their own married life and more often initiate divorce. I think this pattern will also apply to polyamory.
Especially in the context that an interesting imbalance arises in polyamory:
— men prefer to engage in polyamory with young women and avoid engaging in polyamory with older women;
— women prefer to engage in polyamory with athletic, tall, and wealthy men (or simply wealthy men) and avoid engaging in polyamory if a man does not have particularly large assets, has an average build, and is of average or below-average height.
Therefore, there is a very high probability that, when your daughter turns 40, she will statistically:
— be dissatisfied with many of her partners in polyamory;
— be dissatisfied with shared household life under polyamory;
— be dissatisfied with polyamory in general.
But that is not certain.
Then you will be able to repeat this conversation with her.
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u/Repulsive-Ad7501 7d ago
And make a superhuman effort not to say "I told you so!" These are all very good points.
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u/8eightmonkeys 7d ago
My reply was somewhat tongue-in-cheek, of course.
Your daughter is simply going through a normal period in her life.
You can leave her to her own devices, risking later being accused of not supporting her during a difficult period.
You can say, "You can always come back to us and count on our support," risking that she actually will come back and live at your expense, avoiding work, a career, and relationships. She may even come back not alone.
Any actions you take involve risks, and the degree of risk is determined by the foundation you have laid beforehand. For example, if your daughter saw mutual support and love in your family, and does not find the same in polyamory, she will be convinced of the superiority of your values. If she saw primarily decent and honest behavior in your family, and in polyamory encounters dishonesty and deceit, she will be convinced of the superiority of your values.
In a sense, even if you do not talk to her now, you will still be influencing her upbringing, because she will compare life in your family with the life she is building for herself, and will choose the better option and the better values.
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u/Nerdyhuman2718281 7d ago
I wouldn’t respond, at least not with an explanation of why I disagreed with her. You’re not going to change her mind but you could alienate her. My young adult son likes to try to get a reaction out of me about Baha’i laws or morality. I usually tell him that is something he has to decide for himself. Occasionally I’ll say “this is my opinion and I base it on xyz” but I try to never sound judgmental. The result is he shares a lot with me and asks my opinion on many things even if he doesn’t agree with me. I think it is more important to maintain a close and trusting relationship with our children than to try to force them to believe exactly as we believe. I’ve never heard of a successful long term polyamorous relationship but that is the type of thing people need to discover for themselves. The most I would say to her on the subject is it’s hard enough to have an intimate relationship with just two people. Three or more is just asking for over the top drama. My son will occasionally announce that he is not a Baha’i. I just tell him that is his choice. When he says my beliefs are irrational I respond that my beliefs are my choice. He knows why I’m a Baha’i and I know and understand why he isn’t.
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u/TheLurkerSpeaks 7d ago
Anyone who thinks they are capable of pleasing more than one partner has very obviously never been in a serious, mature relationship.
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u/Bubbly_Magnesium 8d ago edited 7d ago
I think a good point someone raised recently online is that polyamory (in the United States at least) is heavily weighed in the direction of men being the focal point. For a secular society, perhaps I'd be more accepting of open relationships (ethical non-monogamy) if there were more examples of women having multiple partners. Basically a counterbalance to the prevalence of patriarchy in modern, Western societies.
Edit: spelling
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u/PsychologyKey2522 8d ago
I’d say: sure, maybe we are all meant to be in “consenting, not jealous polyamorous relationships” IF it “works for you”, because it also means that we all know that we’re all ok with being in this co-op communal relationship together
That said, the very idea of polyamorous relationships as a definition is setting aside the reality that people do become jealous & isn’t it tiring to work at multiple relationships at once?
I am: not making fun of it, I’m pointing out that the idea of this as a lifestyle may actually be what works for some, but also ignores the pitfalls of “sharing a loving relationship” with more than one person because jealousy is a very hard feeling to set aside if one feels left out of one of the other pairs becoming closer, etc……
So, she’s correct that it’s a “better societal way of being”, IF it works for “those who choose it as a way of life”, but for people who don’t want to “share their loved ones” with multiple partners, due to any number of reasons, then it’s not what’s better “for their relationship or those in society who don’t want multiple partners”.
I’m saying that monogamy also has merit as a social construct because many people aren’t cool with the idea of dealing with themselves/their loved ones being in many “loving & consenting relationships at once”, because it’s tiring, or too much work, and it’s what “works for them”.
I hope I’m making sense & I hope maybe some of my thoughts help. I also struggle with not fully “accepting LGBTQ in religion” because I believe “who you love is who you love”. ❤️ (I’m hetero & married/monogamous, btw, if it matters for anyone curious.)
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u/No_Acanthisitta2121 7d ago
I agree with those who have suggested finding common ground to keep the relationship you have with your daughter and, God willing, strengthen it. In addition, if you are not already doing so, you might consider affirming her efforts to seek for herself how relationships and society would function better. This is justice at the individual level.
O SON OF SPIRIT! The best beloved of all things in My sight is Justice; turn not away therefrom if thou desirest Me, and neglect it not that I may confide in thee. By its aid thou shalt see with thine own eyes and not through the eyes of others, and shalt know of thine own knowledge and not through the knowledge of thy neighbor. Ponder this in thy heart; how it behooveth thee to be. Verily justice is My gift to thee and the sign of My loving-kindness. Set it then before thine eyes. — The Hidden Words, Arabic no.2
You said, I'm hoping people can respond with more than "Baha'u'llah says so." The text and quotes below are some of the things to which Baha'u'llah says yes. They may offer you some ideas that you might contribute to the conversations you are having with your daughter to assist her in her search. The quotes encourage us to establish and maintain committed, relationships with everyone we meet, not for themselves but for their inherent nobility. The quotes seem to suggest a new understanding of polyamory as a deep abiding love for everyone minus the sexual aspect.
Baha'u'llah presents a vision of life that insists upon a fundamental redefinition of all human relationships-... these relationships must be reassessed in light of humanity's evolving understanding of God's will and purpose. New laws and concepts are enunciated by Bahá'u'lláh so that human consciousness can be freed from patterns of response set by tradition...."A new life", Bahá'u'lláh declares, "is, in this age, stirring within all the peoples of the earth."
...my hope that day by day ye will love God in ever greater measure, and become more tightly bound to the Beauty that abideth forever, to Him Who is the Light of the world. For love of God and spiritual attraction do cleanse and purify the human heart and dress and adorn it with the spotless garment of holiness; and once the heart is entirely attached to the Lord, and bound over to the Blessed Perfection, then will the grace of God be revealed. This love is not of the body but completely of the soul. And those souls whose inner being is lit by the love of God are even as spreading rays of light, and they shine out like stars of holiness in a pure and crystalline sky. For true love, real love, is the love for God, and this is sanctified beyond the notions and imaginings of men. (‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Bahá’í Sacred Writings)
...seek to establish bonds of comradeship and love which are eternal and founded on the spiritual life of man, not on his physical life. This is one of the many fields in which it is incumbent on the Bahá’ís to set the example and lead the way to a true human standard of life, when the soul of man is exalted and his body but the tool for his enlightened spirit. Needless to say this does not preclude the living of a perfectly normal sex life in its legitimate channel of marriage. (From a letter on behalf of Shoghi Effendi dated 28 September 1941 to an individual believer)
When you love [someone], let it be with a ray of the Infinite Love! Let it be in God, and for God! Wherever you find the attributes of God, love that person, .... Shed the light of a boundless love on every human being whom you meet, .... Heaven will support you while you work in this ingathering of the scattered peoples of the world beneath the shadow of the almighty tent of unity. (Paris Talks)
I am deeply touched by the sympathetic words which have been addressed to me, and I hope that day by day true love and affection may grow among us. God has willed that love should be a vital force in the world, and you all know how I rejoice to speak of love (Paris Talks)
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u/ClicheNerdy 7d ago
Isn't the fact that everyone here jumps to the conclusion that it's wrong and you should try to change her mind... pretty anti-Baha'i?
I'm not personally Baha'i, but I find myself very integrated in the community. There are some topics like this that really set off my red flags. We're just to assume polyamory is wrong? There are new emerging studies that are scientifically sound, that trend towards it being healthier. Jealousy is clearly wrong. There are indigenous communities that have been living tribal, "poly" lifestyles since the dawn of time. From what I understand, learning from our ancestors and indigenous tribes is something that is being taken more seriously in the faith overall.
I just really don't get the queer fear here. It seems to me like opening a real conversation with your daughter is the healthiest thing for both of you. Stop trying to prove her wrong and listen with an open heart. Find common ground. It really is just fine to disagree at the end of the day and find that polyamory is not for you, but it might be beneficial for your daughter.
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u/Substantial_Post_587 7d ago edited 7d ago
"There are new emerging studies that are scientifically sound, that trend towards it being healthier"
Which scientifically sound studies, specifically? And “healthier” than what, and in what respects: psychological well-being, relationship stability, outcomes for children and families, or risk of sexually transmitted infections (STIs)? The claim that research trends towards polyamory being healthier is far from established. Professor Rosemary Hopcroft, in The Problem With Polyamory: A Social Scientific View, draws on anthropological, historical and social-scientific evidence to question its long-term viability and warns of potentially serious consequences for individuals and families.
Psychologist Dr Elisabeth Sheff, an expert on polyamory, acknowledges that such relationships can cause profound hurt, anger and divorce, with some couples ultimately returning to monogamy. She stated, inter alia, "polyamory does not always work out the ways in which people imagine it will, and sometimes things go very wrong. When people try polyamory and it does not work for them, sometimes they stay together and return to a monogamous relationship style. Others who attempt to establish a polyamorous relationship end up feeling hurt or angry at how things worked out, and this can lead to divorce when people are unable to move past the pain they have inflicted on each other. While this same thing happens in monogamous relationships, poly relationships can be so complex and intense that they can explode dramatically if things go wrong. When that happens, poly relationships can lead directly to divorce." STIs are skyrocketing in many countries and she stresses the issues with them in polyamory such as whether folks "inform other partners who would be affected, and take steps to protect others at all times? Or do they blow it off, hide it, or forget to mention it until someone sometime somewhere comes up positive for something and then accuse each other?" A 2024 scoping review of research on consensual non-monogamy specifically examined sexual-health outcomes, including STI rates and safer-sex practices. The scientifically defensible point is that more sexual partners can create more opportunities for STI exposure, depending on partners' infection status, testing frequency, condom use and other protective measures.
If there is evidence that some people thrive in polyamorous relationships this does not establish that polyamory is generally healthier than monogamy. Where is the robust comparative, long-term evidence demonstrating that it is?
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u/ClicheNerdy 6d ago
I think it's worth distinguishing between the Bahá’í teachings on marriage and what the scientific evidence actually tells us about consensual non-monogamy.
I understand that the Faith teaches monogamy, and I'm not suggesting otherwise. But I am concerned about using selective research to argue that polyamory is inherently unhealthy or unstable.
For example, a 2025 meta-analysis by Anderson et al. examined 35 studies involving 24,489 participants and found no statistically significant overall differences in relationship or sexual satisfaction between monogamous and consensually non-monogamous individuals.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/40126203/
A separate review by Gupta et al. surveyed 209 research studies on polyamory and consensual non-monogamy, including relationship functioning, parenting, stigma, and family structures.
https://doi.org/10.1111/jftr.12546
Anthropology also gives us interesting perspectives. Indigenous Amazonian societies have recognized multiple fathers and forms of shared parental investment. Tibetan communities have practiced polyandry, and the Mosuo of China have longstanding matrilineal households and visiting-marriage traditions. These aren't all equivalent to modern polyamory, but they demonstrate that human relationships and family structures have never been universally organized around one model.
None of this proves that polyamory is superior, or that it works for everyone. It simply means we shouldn't claim that science has conclusively established monogamy as the healthiest or only viable arrangement.
What concerns me more is the original question about a daughter who has already distanced herself from the Faith. Bahá’í teachings emphasize independent investigation of truth, the harmony of science and religion, consultation, and unity.
Could this be an opportunity to approach her beliefs with genuine curiosity rather than trying to prove them wrong? What does she mean by polyamory? What values does she associate with it? How does she understand love, commitment, consent, and community?
I would hope that the same openness we ask others to bring to learning about the Bahá’í Faith is something we're willing to offer them in return. We can hold our own convictions while still recognizing the dignity and experiences of people who have come to different conclusions.
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u/Substantial_Post_587 6d ago edited 6d ago
Your reply is fair on the narrow point it addresses. The Anderson meta-analysis and Gupta scoping review do exist and correctly show no overall difference in self-reported relationship or sexual satisfaction. That is worth noting.
Those findings still leave your stronger claim untouched: that emerging research trends toward polyamory being healthier. Satisfaction is one metric. It does not settle relationship stability, dissolution rates, outcomes for children, STI exposure, or long-term viability at scale. On those questions the evidence remains thin, mixed, or cautionary as noted by expert researchers I cited such as Rosemary Hopcroft and Elisabeth Sheff. These gaps are independent of any religious teaching on marriage; they would be equally relevant if I were an atheist or belonged to another religion.
The anthropological examples illustrate human variation. They do not demonstrate that modern polyamory functions like partible paternity, fraternal polyandry, or Mosuo visiting arrangements, nor that it is equally adaptive in contemporary conditions.
We will have to agree to disagree.
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u/Repulsive-Ad7501 7d ago
I may have misspoken. Not tryi g to change her mind, just to have an intelligent conversation.
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u/ClicheNerdy 6d ago
Your question came off very genuine, it was the responses that were surprising for me. I hope you find some genuine middle ground. ❤️
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u/BeneficialTop5136 7d ago
“Learning from our ancestors and indigenous tribes is…being taken more seriously in the faith overall”
Can you clarify what that means? You said you’re very “integrated” in the Bahai community, but I read this whole comment and it doesn’t sound like you know very much about the Faith at all. Which of the Bahai writings have you investigated, to the point where you “integrated” into the faith?
Define “Red Flags”? Do you simply mean something you don’t agree with?
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u/ClicheNerdy 6d ago
My red flags come from growing up in a cult and recognizing when good religion goes bad. The lack of open mindedness around these topics is disappointing.
The fact that your response only attacked my integrity instead of discussing the topic is even more disappointing.
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u/Substantial_Post_587 6d ago
Your reply completely sidesteps the substance. It does not clarify the indigenous-learning claim, does not list any Bahá’í writings investigated, and does not define “red flags” beyond a feeling of discomfort. Framing disagreement as closed-mindedness or an integrity attack is a common way to avoid addressing the actual points raised.
No one attacked your integrity. Concrete questions were asked about the evidence for the “healthier” claim and about the basis for your other statements. Those are legitimate points of discussion even if this was an atheist sub.
Your personal history explains your sensitivity; it does not answer those questions or resolve the scientific limitations of relying on satisfaction data alone.
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u/ClicheNerdy 6d ago
Quit using ai for your responses, you sound... Silly. Please tell your chat bot to include more compassion and less clear bias. 😘
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u/Substantial_Post_587 6d ago
Try addressing the substance of what is written instead of red herrings like AI.
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u/BeneficialTop5136 4d ago
It’s interesting how you say you grew up in a cult, considering the culty and narrow-minded way you’re responding here. No one here put you in a cult and this has nothing to do with the Bahai Faith.
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u/MadameHedgehog 6d ago
Polygamy is an idea. I had a lot of ideas when I was younger. It may come and it may go.
The LGBTQ may be something you have to reconcile yourself with if you want to continue the relationship.
Same with leaving the faith. A lot never come back. Few do if heckled, which it sounds like you're not doing.
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u/Impossible-Ad-3956 5d ago
We have to decide how to get the best outcome for happy, healthy families. That seems to be the course that the Baha'i Faith suggests to us. The discussion does not need to be about polyamory which seems to me to be a natural thing that we all need to self regulate lest we laugh too much at what has serious consequences. It's simple really Sex takes place between a man and a woman within marriage. When it doesn't, it's nobody's business unless it becomes flagrant and destructive to the Baha'i community. That's another reason we have rules about gossip and backbiting. We're here to help each other, not to cause pain. We need to exercise self control to a high degree to meet Baha'i standards, but that sacrifice is part of our daily forgiveness prayers. Sometimes you have to be blunt and tell yourself and others you aren't interested in sex outside of marriage for the sake of a beautiful and healthy way of living. We could go on and on with examples and differences between people's feelings, but it's clearest to just keep things simple and follow the laws which are really for our benefit.
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u/Zealousideal_Rise716 8d ago
Does she want a response? Is there any answer that will make a constructive difference now?
Keep in mind we really impose no penalty on leaving the faith for any reason. And that includes not being estranged from your family. Your best bet now is just to listen and let her know you will always be there for her.