r/belgium • u/GreyWalken • 1d ago
❓ Ask Belgium Is it just me, or is everything going downhill?
Is everything going downhill? Are these the budget cuts? Corporate stinginess?
Or am I just getting older and disappointed?
Nothing works, and everything and everyone wastes your time, energy, and money.
When I go to the store, they don't have what I need.
So then I have to go to another store or order it online.
Instead of sending it to my house or the post office, they send it to some obscure shop or place on the other side of town,
which is almost never open. So I have to play postman myself.
Things you buy are sometimes already broken when they arrive or broken after a year.
If you received a message from the government or the doctor, it used to be via letter or email.
But now they have eBox, MyFin, FartBox, the Helena ap, and who knows what else,
as if I'm going to remember and check 100 sites every day. For about a year now, they’ve only been collecting the trash every 2 weeks, and you’re limited then,
because you only have one container. So I get to play trash man myself
and take garbage bags to the recycling center.
I haven't seen the locket (human ticket counter) open at the train station in the past few years.
What are you supposed to do if you have questions?
If you want to contact a company or something, they send you to to an AI who doesn't understand you.
I could go on like this, but I think you’re tired of the nagging by now.
EDIT: I know these are small problems, and I cant really complain. But its still annoying.
Like a death by thousand cuts. It often feels like that series "the good place" Like yes I'm not starving and have a roof above my head, but I keep needing to solve problems, and society just keeps me busy with endless nonsense.
EDIT2: Thanks for the award. I have no idea how awards work tho.
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u/404GirlHumorNotFound 1d ago
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u/GreyWalken 1d ago
WWIII and Singularity AI takeover incoming?
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u/Eloquessence Europe 1d ago
El Nino coming in 2027 and it will just keep getting worse. It's a stressful time to be informed about current affairs.
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u/404GirlHumorNotFound 1d ago
Wij gewone stervelingen zijn gekookt. Letterlijk en figuurlijk. We gaan moeten samenwerken als wij willen overleven
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u/Invariant_apple 1d ago
It's not you. I lived abroad for while not so long ago, coming back I caught myself noticing how hard the quality of everything is degrading. Many streets are so dirty, like half of public services don't work, public trashcans are always filled to the brim with trash flooding out of it and piling around, public escalators are always out of order, some urinals at our work are out of order for months without being fixed. Individually it's small things but the combined picture is really striking. Want to get an appointment with a specialist you have to wait for months and months. Where the hell are all the taxes going?
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u/Stefouch Brabant Wallon 15h ago
Where the hell are all the taxes going?
Pensions and tax cuts for the Elite.
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u/RonnieRazor 1d ago
Quality of products have gone down the drain since the pandemic. They cut corners wherever they can and prices have gone up the same way. I'm really annoyed by that. I don't mind paying more for a good quality product but even in the higher price range it's really inconsistent. I blame this partially on the online shopping mentality. Not everyone is going to return bad quality products, so they get away with it.
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u/incorrevt 1d ago
It's the same with food. Making portions smaller for the same price (shrinkflation), or cutting quality/swapping with cheaper ingredients (skimpflation). I swear so many things got smaller and are tasting worse.
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u/Striking_Compote2093 1d ago
It's just the end stage of capitalism. Those companies have as big a market share as they can get. Making the products better won't increase sales (at least not enough relative to costs of said improvement). So, In order to fulfill the demands of perpetual growth of profits, costs must come down, so they cut corners, lay people off, decrease sizes,...
Because share holder value must always grow. So we get squeezed.
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u/wapswaps 23h ago
In oil what determines profit is government guarantees, not the market, as well as the building of massive infrastructure that can be financed only with government guarantees, like the Fluxsys network in Belgium we've built up and are now destroying again. What happened to energy is that the European governments' guarantees (which were essentially that Russia would play nice because it's in their economic interest) were bullshit.
Oh and Russia did not just stop delivering energy. They attacked. As in invaded Ukraine, fired rockets at NATO countries. In other words, we're not just having to rebuild energy infrastructure in the EU, we're having to spend ~900 BILLION euros PER YEAR until at least 2030 to defend against Russian aggression.
That is currently the biggest reason you're paying more for everything. But no worries, we've already made the next huge mistake:
Economic cooperation with China, also established with government guarantees, will add and keep making everything more expensive in the coming years.
This is the direct result of very large bets made by the government (energy from Russia, economic cooperation with China), not by the market. In that regard, it is far more communist than capitalist. It absolutely was not the market making this choice.
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u/Striking_Compote2093 14h ago
"communism is when the government does stuff". Hilarious.
I laid out the reason amd mechanism why under capitalism, eventually everything gets more expensive for less quality product. You see this everywhere.
You then take a specific product and point to a different reason. That's cool, but doesn't do anything to counter my point.
"If you bike, you eventually get tired" "No, you're tired because you were biking uphill."
The war in Ukraine is awful and is making energy more expensive, but you failed to mention the way in Iran, that one's even worse for economics reasons. Why did you omit that one?
And "economic cooperation with china = higher prices" please elaborate because that doesn't follow. Sure offshoring jobs is bad, but that's once again a mechanism of capitalism. Exploit poorer countries' workers to save on wages to increase profits. And has nothing directly to do with china.
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u/wapswaps 13h ago edited 13h ago
Communism is when the government does everything. Hence having very large money flows decided by government "goes in the direction" of communism. The market, or capitalism if you will, obviously chooses the cheapest option, or put differently it means the government lets money and goods (like oil) flow where it's cheapest, and given how much money we're talking, that necessarily means the most efficient route for things like oil (because even a single oil terminal costs tens to hundreds of billions of Euros, that's not an amount the even richest states can just throw around). Since this decision was forced by the EU, I make the point that this is a "communist-style" decision in the sense that if the EU was communist, this is how everything would be decided.
> you failed to mention the way in Iran, that one's even worse for economics reasons. Why did you omit that one?
- Russia is a far bigger oil producer than the middle east (obviously measured before the war). Almost double.
- The only way to get natural gas from the Persian gulf to Europe is as LNG which is fundamentally (far) less efficient than pipelines (we're connected to Russia with pipelines) (ie. having the cheapest oil wells doesn't matter if the price difference for getting the oil from the well to your gas tank is more than the well being cheaper, except applied to natural gas)
So while the Iran war ending certainly would drop energy prices it would drop them by, say 15-25%. To 80$, maybe 75$ per barrel say. If Russia repairs the pipelines and starts pumping again oil prices drop 50%, maybe more, to 60$ maybe even 55$ per barrel. So yeah, given both options I would certainly prefer the Ukraine war to end.
> economic cooperation with china = higher prices
Ah because China is not respecting the treaties and creating a massive trade deficit with Europe of 1 trillion euros or so per year, while devaluing the Renminbi (ie. they're NOT helping Chinese people). This causes the Euro to drop and does 3 things:
- it makes Europe more dependent on imports by destroying EU industries
- it makes it impossible to maintain the Euro and makes imports more expensive
- it prevents money from circulating in the EU economy
So yeah, it's making prices rise. Compared to the other 2 effects it's not that big, but it's still substantial, extremely persistent and growing. In other words: it's not making things super-expensive YET.
China is not exactly being a good WTO citizen, which is why half the European politicians use words like "economic warfare" to describe what China does.
And the other reason this is a critical mistake is the Bab-El-Mandeb strait (and to a lesser extent the Malacca strait). EU-China trade is critically dependent on the Houthis not being successful in their campaign. And if imports with China suddenly stop or start getting taxed by them ... THAT will be yet another major economic disaster. So does any European country have the means to keep that waterway open? No, of course not, we're totally dependent on the US. The situation around the Malacca strait is better, in that nobody is currently attacking anyone, but we're in a far worse position to defend it, and yet also critically dependent on it.
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u/MrFingersEU Flanders 1d ago edited 3h ago
Quality of products have gone down the drain since the pandemic.
enshittyfication is already decades here, but with the 'rona it indeed took it a notch higher.
Also, "trickle down economics" didn't work. There was no trickling, the holes in the sieve were succesfully plugged. And we've reached near end-stage capitalism, where minimum service for maximum price and minimum overhead is the business model.
And we live in a country that has bankrupted itself by terrible political decisions the last decades, so if something goes awry, we're caught with our pants on our ankles. And we're going to have to bite the pillow, because they're coming in dry.
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u/DDNB 1d ago
Isn't it crazy? The world's gdp has never been as high, efficiency is ever climbing to record highs, yet products keep getting more expensive while it doesn't feel you get more bang for your buck and governments need to keep cutting more and more services.
It begs the (rhetorical) question: where is all this money going? And more importantly: when will we need to decide that our economic system has reached the top and has outlived its usefulness?
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u/Mundane_Cry_7897 1d ago
I wonder if the root problem is actually political.
Markets are doing what they’re built to do: allocate resources according to prices and returns. What they don't automatically do is guarantee affordable housing, decent wages, healthcare or good public services. Since the 80s "liberal" politicians have increasingly stepped back from steering markets in the public interest through regulation, public ownership and redistribution. I don't think "capitalism" somehow woke up one morning and demanded that public services be privatized or that corporations receive tax breaks. Those were political choices.
I think the current situation is partly a crisis of political responsibility. Politicians gave markets more freedom while weakening the institutions that were supposed to make sure the gains from growth were actually shared.
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u/wapswaps 23h ago
Which politicians? Belgium is governed in 4 year stretches, and CD&V, Vooruit and Anders have each government essentially the same amount of time (each have missed 2 or 3 periods (out of 11) and participated in all the others), besides it doesn't matter as the important decisions were made at the European level by the EPP.
Belgium, as part of the EU made several very, very large bets:
1) we bet our security on the American army (they objected, originally under Bush, we did it anyway) because it was "the end of history" and the cold war was over and Russia was not a threat anymore. Neither was anyone else.
WE (not politicians) are currently spending ~900 billion per year on defense because of just how wrong this bet was, or about 7000 euro per Belgian citizen per year, which will continue into 2030 at least (money allocated)
This is being financed by debt so we're paying only about 1000 per year now and will be paying this back (ie. more than 6000 per year) in the future.
2) we bet our energy security on cooperation with Russia, on the German-Russian Nord Stream project and on UK-guaranteed access to the strait of Gibraltar, and American-guaranteed access to the straits of Bab-El-Mandeb and Hormuz.
This is why we massively expanded Fluxsys and the Belgian natural gas distribution net, and are now destroying/decommissioning that very same network again.
We are currently paying about 80 billion extra per month, and climbing, for energy as a result of this bet, which translates to 3000 euro per Belgian citizen per year. This does not include the cost for building and destroying the Fluxsys network or the gas terminals (which are definitely another 1000 per year per Belgian citizen)
Oh and this is killing the petrochemical jobs in Antwerp you're reading about for a few months now. But we've only seen the very beginning of that.
3) Economic cooperation with China. In case you haven't heard, China is at least for the moment not cooperating and this has been killing European jobs, especially in industry, for 20 years now.
For cost there is the problem that this saves money while killing jobs. But I would still say this is easily costing us 2000 euros per year per Belgian (or European for that matter) citizen.
It was mostly the EVP, and actually the German Chancellors Gerhard Schroder and Angela Merkel who made these decisions. They did not have to make these choices, these are all unforced errors. No worries, Gerhard Schroder has now been paid by Putin for ~15 years with board seats in Nord Stream and Gazprom.
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u/Mundane_Cry_7897 22h ago
I think we're talking about two different things. You're pointing to are mostly external pressures on the state like defence, energy security, China, geopolitical shocks. I agree that Europe made major strategic mistakes on defence/Russian energy/China. Those now have real fiscal and industrial costs. My point wasn't that privatization or deregulation explains every current budget problem.
OP's post is about services becoming less staffed and less convenient: fewer counters, more apps, chatbots, reduced collection frequency etc.. That's where institutions shifted toward cost-cutting, privatization and treating public services increasingly like businesses
An unstable geopolitical conjuncture does squeeze the state. But institutions responding by cutting staff, reducing service quality, shifting labour onto citizens instead of protecting public capacity was still a political choice. You're right though, this choice didn't always happen at the Belgian level.
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u/wapswaps 12h ago edited 12h ago
You're pointing to are mostly external pressures on the state like ...
No I'm pointing to choices the EU made for all of Europe. Unforced errors that now have very, very large consequences for all European citizens.
Of course now the EU is now very, very quiet about all of it. What I don't understand is how anybody's accepting this attitude. Depending on Russian and middle eastern oil without some sort of plan to actually guarantee supplies when there is a military conflict. I didn't understand it back then and I still don't understand it.
The EU is also NOT fixing the problem. They're yelling loudly at Trump to fix it, mostly by insulting him (did you see the gold statue in the EU Parliament?). Do these people understand what will happen if the next president says "ah ... they want me to disengage the wars in the middle east? Ok, let's disengage". Oil will triple from its current price that day, except of course in the US. They are threatening the US to fix it, despite the obvious: if the US disengages it will lose out big economically ... but only a fraction of what the EU will lose. If that happens we'll be back to the economy between the world wars ... and EU states will be at war with eachother again in a matter of years.
There is a VERY big difference in what EU politicians are telling the US in private and what they're telling their voters. VERY big.
I mean I hate Trump and even more what he stands for, but what the EU is doing is outright Machiavellian. And I'm very sorry. It isn't Trump that has destroyed the EU economy. It's the German CDU, the EU commission and the EPP. Gerhard Schroder and Angela Merkel, those are the people that bear by far the biggest responsibility for the current situation and that Gerhard Schroder is accepting a very big paycheck from Putin, even today, is infuriating. That guy deserves to be shot for high treason, Angela Merkel should be in prison, with a monthly hour where she's put on a stage and people from all over Europe are invited in and provided with rotten tomatoes, and frankly the current German chancellor should be summarily fired and forced into poverty for failing to explain and fix the problem, the ONE job politicians have, or at the very least he should have prepared for the aftermath. They absolutely deserve what the AfD and Die Linke are doing to their parties, in fact they deserve FAR worse.
And the worst of it is: I'm not German! This is GREATLY affecting me and 500 million Europeans, 420 million of whom like me aren't even Germans and had no say whatsoever in this decision that's destroying all our states, jobs and economies! For Germans this is a self-inflicted disaster. For everyone else this is an EU and German inflicted error. And I love the EU, or at least Schengen, but if these decisions destroy the EU ... I will understand.
And JUST TODAY ... here we are again. Trump/Musk (who knows?) cuts Starlink. So the EU has provided, by my count, about 90 billion in emergency aid to Ukraine JUST TODAY. This comes after refusing to spend 2 billion to help defend Ukraine in 2014 and refusing a 20 billion investment in 2023. And, of course, yet again it is not enough to end the war. In other words: it is YET ANOTHER decision that raises the oil price for years to come. Well done, EU, well done.
HOW DID WE GET INTO THIS SITUATON? How could we possibly have made decisions THIS BAD? Either fight Russia or don't fight Russia. The point where the EU actually responding to the taking of Crimea by attacking Russia in 2014 becomes the cheaper option has long passed, I think.
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u/Beginning-Map-3264 13h ago
Politics has ALWAYS been a problem… different parties have different interests and ideas and that has always been a problem… globalisation has changed the playing field ( before the 70s Belgium and other countries were more dependent on their own economy now we are dependent on the whole world… when politics makes that trade difficult or impossible then you have the current situation… but look up all crisis years of the last 100 years their were many
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u/Beginning-Map-3264 13h ago
Quality of products has gone down since 80s
Before people bought a machine and if broken they repaired it, people bought 1 kitchen for their whole life ect… mass consumption and the economic boost of the 80s changed everything
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u/MaryPoppins047 1d ago
I'll add that to shop anywhere you could just pay for the item, now they want you to have the app and your name, etc... worst is ordering food with a damn account instead of calling it in.
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u/GreyWalken 1d ago
yeah. you need a phone for everything and real life people are not there. and then people wonder why everyone is lonely.
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u/RedRagnar1701 16h ago
Welcome to a Capitalist induced decline. The only way out is building economic democracy with goals based on human needs, away from single minded profit motive.
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u/Beginning-Map-3264 13h ago
Nice idea but nobody will take the risk of starting a company anymore, who decides what are human needs the government? If we buy it, isn’t that a need? That’s socialism or even communism
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u/RedRagnar1701 12h ago
Instead of a small minority of shareholders and a board of directors calling the shots, why not all those who work the company?
One worker, one vote.
In such a constellation, the profit motive doesn't rule supreme and the needs of the many come into play. That means more care for the environment (because the majority relies on a healthy environment), worker wellbeing, product durability, production in line with the needs of society, not short term profit that burns our future chasing money...
Risk is a false argument. We all bear the risk. It's capitalist propaganda that the entrepreneur needs to be put on a pedestal because they take risks. Look where that preferential treatment has brought us: to the brink of collapse.
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u/Beginning-Map-3264 12h ago edited 12h ago
What if the company is not doing so good and has huge loses who is going to pay that? Also the workers? Workers only think of their own benefits.. if 50% needs to be fired? Who is going to decide who must go “the environment”? 🤣
Doesn’t work that way dude
And hey I am not a big pure capitalist fan either… but really think about it… you end up in communism…
In Belgium we have a socialist capitalism and that is stil workable but go any further and it won’t work…
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u/RedRagnar1701 5h ago
I prefer not to dabble in bad faith hypotheticals, TINA-pessimism and regurgitating capitalist propaganda.
Use your imagination and thinking skills: workers who work for themselves instead of being wage slaves in the service of profit whatever the cost? That's a completely different world. Worker cooperatives are succesfull and thriving, we should be promoting them instead of shutting them out.
Ever heard of the Lucas Plan in the UK? That was a plan devised by the workers of an ailing defense contractor in Britain. The proposal wanted to reorganize the plant away from military application to medical appliances (dialysis machines, ventilators,...). The owners preferred to sell the company for parts instead of giving working people the chance to figure it out for themselves, which would have massive societal benefits. Imagine that: a world where the economy works to satisfy the needs of the many instead of the greed of the few?
Belgium a Socialist Capitalist country? How about a capitalist country with social corrections (who are being abolished and defunded as we speak). We're going through the biggest social decline in 80 years. Strikes are through the roof and poverty is on the rise.
Socialism is the antithesis of capitalism. There's no combining them. It's economic democracy versus economic dictatorship. Make your choice, but I guess we can both agree that the current economic tyranny of the rich is driving all that lives on this planet off a bloody cliff.
Take your time to think about, but clearly... time is running out.
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u/HP7000 13h ago edited 13h ago
- The boomer generation made themselves incredibly wealthy by stealing from later generations.
This is a debt we now face. Lowering inheritance taxes will create an ungodly amount of generational wealth and nepo-babies, possibly making the problem even worse for generations to come. In the meantime we have to pay out those boomers pensions as well.
- Tax evasion (legal or not) is at an alltime high. About 1 billion untaxed wealth is funneled into taxheavens every single day. About 1/3 of Belgiums GDP.
https://hetverzet.eu/artikels/miljaar-miljaar-1-miljaar-euro-per-dag-2
This causes an incredible strain on our government, our social institutions, due to lack of income.
- People have kept voting for people whos main mission is to make rich people richer, by giving tax-cuts, subsidies and making it easier to avoid paying taxes. this to, led to lack of income of our government, causing our public instutions (public transport, civil institutions, social security, etc..) to defund at an alarming rate, which leads to enshittification of those institutions. the way implementing things like wealth tax is avoided is always the same:
- Capitalism = the line must go up, always. Costs must be reduced so profit can increase. This too leads to enshittification.
TLDR: late-stage capitalism.
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u/Michiel426 1d ago
I get the sentiment, but just to push-back a little. I think it plays at three levels at once:
If you zoom out or purely look at statistics, we're still doing great on almost all metrics: health, purchasing power, life expectancy, poverty, etc. This is still arguably the best time to be alive globally, and Belgium one of the best places as well. But the 90s and 2000s were probably more optimistic: the Cold War was over, the EU was expanding, and the future looked bright. Now we have real threats like geopolitics, the transatlantic partnership crumbling, Europe losing relevance, and climate change. So there is a vibe-shift
News and social media distorts our view of the world: our news is events and mostly negative events. Progress is slow and invisible, and it never makes headlines. I know it's a cliche, but it is the millions who got to work fine versus the one who had an accident. Who makes the news? The accident.
Your examples are legit. Are you living in the countryside? Austerity and cost-cutting in public services has a big impact, especially in rural areas. No banks, no bakeries, a pickup points instead of delivery,.. There is a massive difference in cities vs rural areas. The sense of 'loss' in rural areas is even thought to be the major explenation of extreme-right's success in areas without migrants (example: Saksen-Anhalt in Germany)
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u/belgawizard 15h ago
Don’t try to debate AI generated forces that are trying to make everything look worse than it is. Negativism is a political agenda (good arguments though)
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u/Michiel426 14h ago
I don't think OP is a bot.
And even if it is, posts are is read by real people so I disagree. Letting bots dominate the public debate got us Brexit, Trump, and will get us Le Pen vs. Melanchon in a few months
I agree on negativism to be a pushed agenda though.
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u/Little_Kitchen_1503 1d ago
People living in rural areas somehow think that the migrants who don't live there are responsible for banks and bakeries disappearing?
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u/lt__ 1d ago
Here in Lithuania a lot is the same, except at least there is one ID to connect to government websites (still different systems of different institutions) and the garbage is handled much better. These endless bags on the sidewalks in Belgium look atrocious.
What helps us financially, I guess, is that the old people do not have good pensions. You can exist with it between home, clinic and market, but travelling abroad often like these westerners? Dream on.
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u/InternationalPin5811 1d ago
Post ultra liberalism, you can not keep making everything more profitable without destroying it.
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u/Cristal1337 Limburg 5h ago
The profit incentive is not a consumer-friendly concept. Look at what happened to the nylon pantyhose. It is one of history's most famous examples of planned obsolescence.
My biggest gripe with society is that we have the human capacity to take care of our infrastructures, the elderly, the sick, the disabled, and children. We don't need to compromise on service-oriented jobs like the postal office, public transportation, or education. We don't need to work ourselves to death. We don't need to work longer before retiring. However, we do, because we prioritize profits, which don't even end up benefitting the general public. The profits are used for extravagant luxuries for a small group of people and to rig elections...which uphold the status-quo.
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u/tarasbulba76 1d ago
So question begs to be asked. Where is all the tax money in this most-taxed country on earth going exactly?
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u/HP7000 17h ago edited 17h ago
Rich and elderly people. Often the same person. And people that became sick of the ratrace and dropped out. But the biggest bite goes to the first category. Its crazy how we keep giving taxcuts, subsidies and let them get away with taxfraud on a massive scale. Taxes = social wellfare. But money = power i guess.
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u/tarasbulba76 16h ago
Gotta define rich there - because in all my time living here, I’ve never seen such rampant vat fraud from tradespeople (plumbers etc), with the obvious resulting income tax fraud further down the line. They must make tens of thousands of additional income a year in that way.
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u/PHVL 16h ago
FYI, the VAT fraud is "only" estimated between 5 and 10 billions while the fiscal gift to companies is above 30 billions.
But yeah, let's keep hitting on the working class.4
u/tarasbulba76 16h ago
Yeah, those morally superior creatures (I’m from there too, incidentally, but I pay my tax at source). If it’s fraud, it’s still robbing society, irrespective of numbers.
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u/HP7000 14h ago
probeer eens 30 miljard:
https://www.statista.com/chart/17133/tax-evasion-cost-to-eu-countries/
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u/PHVL 12h ago
You’re mixing everything up. Even though I do agree, tax evasion is something that we need to to act on. Tax fraud (especially VAT because this is what we were talking about) is not tax evasion. VAT tax is a not equally impacting us as people with more money don’t feel the weight of the tax as much as people with low income.
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u/WorriedEmployer2471 15h ago
https://multimedia.tijd.be/begroting/
Going primarily to "sociale bescherming" (pensioenen, etc) so no not to the "rich people" just to everyone who is retired and no one thought in the past that this system is not maintainable and no one thought about creating an investment fund to fund these pensions so yeah we're totally fucked as long as they don't cut in the pensions.
If they would cap the pensions to 2500€/mo, we could save billions (5-7)
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u/tarasbulba76 14h ago
Pensions are not capped in belgium? Lol didn’t know that. They’re capped in my country, except of course for ex mp’s.
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u/WorriedEmployer2471 13h ago
No you have a 20% of people with pensions above 3k but in general these people have had a whole carreer to prepare for their old day so i’m not really sure why you need to be paid more than 2500€ which is already not bad for not doing anything anymore
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u/Head_gardener_91 Oost-Vlaanderen 10h ago edited 10h ago
They are capped. https://www.sfpd.fgov.be/nl/pensioenbedrag/berekening/maximumpensioen You pay a contribution percentage on your wage when you work so there is a logic in higher pensions.
When you worked at the government it is a scandal when you have 3000 bruto pension. If you payed yourself a min wage, don't contribute much you have benefits from welfare and can pay yourself dividend, or a private pension without problems. Or the people how worked in corporations with private pension plans forbidden for ambtenaren.
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u/Head_gardener_91 Oost-Vlaanderen 10h ago
I argue or we are the most taxed country. It is very simple too solve it. We cut the rsz, less tax and you can cover your health care privately. We are heavily taxed on an artificial income. If you count the benefit and count the net income and compare it with tax it is not so heavy
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u/Deckers2013 16h ago edited 16h ago
You forgot Some things;
When applying for a job u have to remember and explain every little point in your history so they can judge u over it.
In the same context , demanding 100+ skillsmissing one of it u don’t get the applicated job.
When sending a complain everything goes almost online , but when u wanna talk to someone. u get caught up in a circle of links that put u right at the beglnning after 10 minuts or so.
Edit; another one.
There used to be 3 parts in a bounty. Now it’s 2
Everything gets smaller.
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u/LordSmokedPony 17h ago edited 15h ago
Welcome to end stage capitalism.
I grew up hearing from my single mom with two kids that that a well paid was about €2000. On that she bought a house, did trips with us, provided us with all we needed.
Then the age of the middle man arrived.
I’m single earning a bit more than that and can just about keep my head above water.
Social services are becoming a shell, products are becoming trash in the name of profits and such.
We are breaking our backs lifting Molloch to heaven.
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u/rooierus 1d ago
Alles is fel veranderd na covid. De trend naar digitalisering en reductie van lokale verankering is toen echt in een stroomversnelling gekomen. De globale logistieke ketens maken ook dat het bijna onmogelijk wordt om niet héél generische voorwerpen/wisselstukken in voorraad te houden. Zolang productie en logistiek een strategische tak is van wat eigenlijk alleen maar een economische wereldoorlog genoemd kan worden, gaat dat niet veranderen en zal je appjes en online winkelen moeten gebruiken.
rantoff
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u/roses_are_blue 1d ago
Man people have such idealistic depictions of supermarkets, administrative functions and clerks.
As a 40+ yo I can guarantee you that you have many more options and a lot more quality now than we used to have even 20 years ago.
For example: picking up groceries was impossible, contact over the internet with the government was nigh impossible and often required taking a half day off and the "container park" had just been introduced to counter the preceding habit of dumping waste anywhere people deemed fit.
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u/PygmeePony Belgium 1d ago
It's not like stores used to have everything in the past. But I do feel like we forgot to just accept that and make do with what we did have. We buy more stuff than we used to because we make more stuff.
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u/numinosaur 1d ago
I am pretty sure Rome must have had the same vibe in its latter stage.
Things still kept advancing somewhat while the bottom slowly started to fall away underneath it.
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u/Wasted99 1d ago
Come on... you used to have to go to a loket for basically everything, one that was only open from 9.30 -12 13.00-16.00.
Wtf can take general house waste to the recyling center, that's not even allowed?
De big cities still have nmbs loketten, you can contact their services over the phone or whatsapp if needed.
I agree with the messy app landscape, let's hope this fizzles out a bit. Otoh, your doctor can now do a precription that your pharmacist can fill online, you used to need to run around yourself with 39 fever in the past.
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u/gravity_is_right 1d ago
Wtf can take general house waste to the recyling center, that's not even allowed?
It has been allowed in certain cities to compensate for the reduced garbage pick-ups, bi-weekly instead of weekly.
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u/lunethical 1d ago
one that was only open from 9.30 -12 13.00-16.00.
Idk, I remember at least Thursdays always having extended opening hours for most important stuff.
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u/GreyWalken 1d ago
Idk, I went with my black bags to the recycling center. I was not sure if it was for the "verbranding" or just "grof vuil" so I dropped at grof vuil. There was no one to ask or to correct me.
Why would a recycling center, het container park not accept garbage? What else am I supposed to do with my to much garbage?6
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u/Philip3197 1d ago
Do you really have that much garbage? Do they not have selective garbage selection?
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u/ListenToKyuss 1d ago
we’re in the final stages of a societal collapse.. this will only get worse and will drag on for decades. Focus on what bring you joy, do what you love in life.. change what you can influence and don’t get stuck on what you can’t. Much love ❤️
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u/Beginning-Map-3264 13h ago
We had a lot of economic depressions in the past… capitalism always survives… look at the history of the past 100 years, Great Depression in the 30s WWII oil crisis of the 70s, bank crisis and house crisis.. ect ect iT has been much worse
WE ARE SPOILED
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u/AlternativePrior9559 23h ago
Sane advice. Life is so short. I have lost most of those I love and the lesson I I have learnt is simply to be kind.
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u/Orisara Oost-Vlaanderen 1d ago
I mean, not really? Life seems pretty good to me.
If things take longer for you to get done now compared to 10 years ago I think that's on you dude.
Personally I have some invoices coming to my emails and some by post and that's it. I'm not much of a phone user and even there the app I basically use except for internet is like...to watch my stocks investments every noon at work.
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u/yarisken75 1d ago
I'm 50 and the world was always a shitty place with war famine etc. You just pay more attention. Belgium is not that bad ... Corruption and mismanagement are part of the system.
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u/IronFistoftheCrown 1d ago
I feel you, man…!
I think most of it is due to digitalisation (eBox, thousands of apps,…)
As a company, it’s seductive because it removes an expensive employee (who can also fall out, get sick,…) and disguises this with the promise of « convenience » or « speed ». In reality it alienates people (we spend most time interacting with digital bots instead of acknowledging humans arojnd us) but just as importantly, it removes the bottleneck of bureaucracy. In fact, since you don’t have people anymore that have to treat your paperwork, you can bloat the admin with different check boxes without impacting the company/government expenses (no extra manpower is needed to treat extra paperwork).
If we were to go back to handwritten letters for important stuff, most of this idiotic enshitification would self-regulate
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u/Andenshap 1d ago
Thank you, I thought it was just me… but no, things are going from bad to worse, and they’re trying to sell it to us the other way around. I feel less lonely now.
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u/sleepy_whiskers 1d ago
bestie every time I leave the house I have a mental breakdowm, we're all in this together (sadly)
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u/Global-Persimmon1471 1d ago
I agree and recently made a post about the same subject on another sub.
Quality of everything has gone downhill and everything is more complex to handle on a day to day basis
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u/MrNotSoRight 17h ago
I'm surprised noone has yet accused you of being a russian bot. thats the usual response when someone is critical
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u/ItsShowtimes 7h ago
It’s the usual response to thought/critique because Reddit is full of left wing cucks.
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u/GreyWalken 10h ago
blyat ima not a russian botte! beep boop!!
(yeah people throw accusations for all sorts of things ive been called a bot, a n*zi, pro putin, ect I'm none of those things)3
u/ItsShowtimes 7h ago
I’ve been called the same and I literally hate Germans and Putin more than any of the left wing nut jobs that called me that. I am pro free speech and against totalitarianism and those calling me such are literally the totalitarian nazis themselves who eant us to be jailed for our willingness to debate. 😊
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u/SweetJellyPie 1d ago
So you cleaned out a closet and had to go to a containerpark for it, the horror. Any digital government communication and more, can all be set up and centralised in Doccle. Basically a digital archive.
What question do u need answered for trains? The app shows u exactly where and when to get on. Or ask the conducteur.
Agreed on trash AI support
Not having stock in a shop has been an issue forever, same as buying stuff that breaks. But maybe you're just buying garbage and expecting quality.
You can have stuff delivered at your jobs address, if you dont want to be bothered with playing postman.
Cmon brother, try harder instead of victimising yourself and becoming bitter
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u/gravity_is_right 1d ago
can all be set up and centralised in Doccle. Basically a digital archive.
Email: you've got a new document from the governement. We won't tell you what it's about, because you have to open it in doccle.
Me: sheez, that might be important, so I go to doccle, have to login with Itsme, have to search for the new document, a pdf. Download the pdf, open the pdf. It contains a link to the health portal.
So I click the link for the health portal, have to login with Itsme again. Ok, so I login and search for this document.
Eventually it contains the message: "Hi, you've just visited the doctor."
Yeah, I know, I'm not demented.
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u/GreyWalken 1d ago
yeah I'm aware those are 1st world problems. but one would expect things to stay manageable, and not to play post man and garbage man but maybe thats just me.
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u/SweetJellyPie 1d ago
Yep, its just you
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u/GreyWalken 1d ago
seeing the comments of people having the same feeling I'm sure its me.
Im insane!
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u/cannotfoolowls 1d ago
No, I personally don't think so. Not more than at any other point in time. There are upsides and downsides.
I remember before we had internet and it wasn't all that either. Lots of little annoyances like when you needed/wanted to buy something and weren't even sure what store sold it. Going somewhere and finding out it was closed. Nothing on tv, yet again. Trying to meet up with someone who was running late but you didn't know so you had to just wait and hope they'd show up. etc
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u/GreyWalken 1d ago
I mean even with modern communication people just ghost me.
I show up, but they don't. If I asked whats wrong they block me.
Needles to say, I don't try to meet new people unless I'm really really lonely lol3
u/cannotfoolowls 10h ago
Look, I don't know you, so I don't know the reason, but that's not normal behaviour. I don't think I've ever had anyone ghost me when we decided to meet in person.
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u/GreyWalken 10h ago
I think its because people are afraid to get negative reactions, so they rather block or ghost then someone being mad at them for not being able to show up. or they think its less hurtful for the other person (which is not true but whatever).
but I never ghosted so i cant know.
thanks for the response ^^2
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u/psychnosiz Belgium 1d ago
and who knows what else
the boomer expression ... you're starting to get old OP.
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u/Unhappy-Band-6311 1d ago
Look who woke up from hibernation
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u/GreyWalken 1d ago
I mean stuff was getting shitty in 2022 with all those annoying add screens and cars and bikes having bright led lights. lol
but it keeps getting worse lol1
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u/SgtFlippy88 1d ago
Kga nie zeggen dat nie waar is, kben geen fan van het openbaar vervoer. Ma kmoet zeggen dat ik laatst in Brussel Centraal was, een vraag had en voor de loketten stonden 2 medewerkers om de eerste vragen te beantwoorden en doorsturen naar de loketten voor effectief tickets en abonnementen. Ik neem nie vaak de trein en mijne was afgeschaft en die hebben me rustig helpen zoeken hoe dak thuis zou geraken.
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u/PackIcy2106 1d ago
Yeah, everything is worse than a couple years ago. Let alone a couple decades ago.
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u/pixie14 10h ago edited 10h ago
Geopolitical changes. China smells victory, USA is a failing empire with a fascist, senile emperor.
Europe is just a little kid, fed too many candies by big brother USA. Ever since the end of WW2 we've sold our soul to corporate America and now we reap the rewards :)
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u/Head_gardener_91 Oost-Vlaanderen 10h ago edited 10h ago
Some are indeed cuts. Staf in a station is reduced, it is extremely expensive, and indeed that's is not customer oriented. Despite my opinion on railways is not neutral I think we do it quite well. But the cuts are everywhere, where you can see it in the stations, but also afther the screens, in the amount off staff for controlling the trains, in the staff that's managing staff on board etc... if everything runs normal it is OK. But when there is a major disruption it is a bigger disaster than even a couple years ago, because there are not enough people to do it properly.
There is more stuff than ever made too sell not to work, do your research and buy quality stuff.
That you always need te bypass an ai is indeed awful.
When you have a garden or other storage every 2 weeks garbage is ok for me, we have it like that here certainly 5 years like that. If the container is too small for you, you can ask to change it to a bigger one.
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u/lodebla 3h ago
Wear sunscreen.
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u/GreyWalken 30m ago
Holy sh*t it works!! It gave me super speed to deal with all these shenanigans and now I can sleep as a baby tonight!
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u/NotoriousBIET 2h ago
I don't worry about these things all too much. I try to enjoy myself and enjoy the good things in life. Luckily I have a great home, great wife and great job. I can put some money on the side every month and don't have to worry too much.
I do understand your struggles though.
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u/GreyWalken 27m ago
Indeed as long as I have my basic needs met and can make art I'm happy.
But I hope I still have time to make art, life is being a bit hectic lately.
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u/Severe-Match4233 1d ago
Not to mention the attitude of the highschool aged kids. And those that drive fatbikes.
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u/Brokkenpiloot 1d ago
Man nothingnof rhat is different compared to the scooters and mopeds that were tuned to reach 80 km/h in olden days
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u/_kempert Kempen 1d ago
I really don’t see what’s new with the people riding fatbikes. It’s the same type that rode stinking, loud mopeds. That’s been a thing since halfway last century. At least now they’re silent and odor free!
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u/XenofexBE 1d ago
Sounds to me like you're nearing your 40s. Amirite? 45 here and i consider everything has been not just downhill but thoroughly fucked for a decade. I remember my parents and grandparents saying something similar, so i just concluded that feeling just comes with age.
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u/GreyWalken 1d ago
32 lol
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u/Xari 1d ago
Damn ngl I thought from your post you were like 60 or something... You're 32 and having so much trouble with the digitisation of services? I'm 36 and I can't even remember ever dealing with pysical letters.
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u/GreyWalken 23h ago
I geuss I'm an old soul. Listening to 80s music, brian wilson and Gilbert O'Sullivan. I recently send a letter to Engie because their shitty AI wont accept a file.
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u/pitsywitsy 13h ago
Same here, 34. Unemployed for 7 months, have been looking 6 years for a job suiting my bachelor biomedical sciences but only landed shitty retail jobs. No outlook for a healthy financial situation because the NL government fucked me over with a huge ass study debt for what they keep enshittifying the rules for. Mental health obviously is shitty low but no help because the waiting list are so long. Only reason I have a place to live is because my bf has a job but relationship is at his low because all of the extra hardships. Without him I would be out on the street because the renting market is also terrible and no one will rent you something without a job. So personal life has been getting worse and worse over the past 10 years following the decline of society and all the things mentioned above (social services, geopolitics etc)... Life is shit and it's only getting worse.
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u/Cinnamon_Autumn88 1d ago
Yesss I'm 38 and still remember going to the bank with my grandfather to pay bills.... heavenly!
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u/TuezysaurusRex 14h ago
So you’re an elder millennial like me and they’re a younger millennial, this is the exact way we’re all feeling. The generations before us handed us this fucked up world and we have been fighting to fix it but we don’t have the power like previous generations had, now we have two generations below us blaming us for the shift in the world, there are videos of Gen Z and Alpha coming for millennials saying we should retire as if we, who should be in our mid-Life crisis stages, have been in full-life crisis since we were brought into the world.
But you know, just cut out coffee and avocado toast and absolutely don’t forget to chill out with a Stella by your pool when the outside is so hot it could boil our blood. That’ll fix everything they fucked up for us.
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u/trshmstr 1d ago
The world is going to shits, climate is fucked up, species are going extinct, birthrates are declining, world war 3 could be around the corner and you are worrying about these things?
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u/GreyWalken 1d ago
I worry about those also. I was just wondering if it was just me about these small but very time consuming 1st world problems.
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u/Foreign-Chipmunk-839 9h ago
Reactions like this belong on the list aswell. People have become cold and uncaring, just like you.
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u/Raidlos 1d ago
Wanting train station lockets is 10/10 ragebait 😂
Yes, take me back to missing the train because an old lady is looking counting her coins and when it's your turn it's 12h and they close for lunch
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u/GreyWalken 1d ago
I mean I have the same problem when I'm waiting behind that machine. Old lady complaining about the tickets being expensive for half an hour. would be nice if the locket was open, they can answer questions also.
But no its there but ive never seen it open.1
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u/yeoldegamerdude 1d ago
All of us don't want shitty jobs anymore. And what mostly everybody does is take good jobs and be shitty at it. Nobody takes pride in their job and it shows.meanwhile Big compagnies go for quick Profit and make crappy cheap shit that breaks but earns them the most short term. Its a Vicious cycle. nobody is to blame except progress in general. If you can call it that.
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u/Remote-Golf2156 Belgium 1d ago
Well, at least the train network has been doing good, given the budget cuts I’d argue superbly. Steadily improving share of timely arriving trains, also working even on general strikes days.
But I agree, you can feel budget cuts. For example De Lijn is cutting routes, and I experienced it myself. Pavements in Leuven are completely falling apart, too, and no one cars.
It’s sad to see basic infrastructure like buses or pedestrian pavements falling apart. Eventually, it just hampers economic growth, too.
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u/Kaga_san Belgian Fries 22h ago
The timely arriving trains are because they just let them skip stops or cut the traject short... afaik they need to reach the terminus station for trains to be counted as delayed. That said, the nmbs is doing the best they can, for now. But those budget cuts will continue to enshittify our rail year after year.
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u/Remote-Golf2156 Belgium 9h ago
Sadly MR and NVA doing their best to butcher public transport, year after year.
Despite the fact that they are "pro-growth" parties and many studies in the EU established clearly that improving public transport, attractiveness and safety of train stations, and providing better options to reach jobs in other cities is one of the best investments a country can make, providing return on investment within couple years by increasing employment, job options and citizens mobility (all increasing state revenues).
But sure, lets just butcher efficient and public transport and keep private company cars, that strangle our economy by creating constant traffic and significant cost.
It is sad, but we gotta keep on going. Vote for parties that defend efficient and public transport. Use trains and pay for tickets. Encourage friends and family to choose bus or train.
Each of us can contribute positively!
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u/AI_Scraper 22h ago
As someone who regularly lives in China I can confirm everything in Belgium is going downhill. Every time I fly back to Belgium I am disappointed within 30 minutes of arriving. 5 months in China and not a single broken elevator/escalator. Everything just works. People are civil and it's safe.
Then I take the (delayed) train back home from Brussels Airport. Huge queue at those dumb gates for the Diabolo fee. Sigh. Train arrives too late. Sigh. Train full of graffiti. Sigh. Toilets in train not working. Sigh. Arrives at Ghent St Pieters. Escalator not working, have to haul 40 kg of luggage downstairs. Sigh.
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u/Lanky-Intention9390 1d ago
Not everything is going down hill, but many things are. Yes budget cuts, yes corporate stinginess.
Some things work. For example now I can download some paperwork from gemeente in 1 minute, no afspraak. I can pick up some things from gemeente, no afspraak. Im happy when I can click instead of waiting 15min listening to bad music on the phone.
Yes ebox sucks.
I agree trash should be taken every week. Maandverband yuck. Pampers yuck.
Im glad lockets are gone, they also dont like answering questions.
My postman is still ok, everything is delivered and never missing.
They fired my banker though. He was a customer oriented hard working man in a small bank. So that sucks. Keytrade was good and then it was sold to French bank. Then it went downhill. So that sucks.
Paying for busses directly with bankcard is good though.
4 euro espresso sucks. Restaurants closing suck (before I even try them).
So yeah, complain away.
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u/Tjessx 1d ago edited 1d ago
yes but also no.
Amazon never delivered something to me using one of those sketchy services you mention.
For the Ebox etc we're in a period between no solution and a good solution. For example KBC already shows the box in the KBC app, in a few years everything will be merged together which will be nice because I ibiously don't want to open multiple sites to read government/tax mail, but I also don't want to receive letters.
Same with AI, it will improve and in a couple of years it will be so good that it will be annoying to talk to a human.
I like to compare my life with that of my father. He got his first bathroom in my grandparents house when he was 7. We're living in a time of incredible luxury and that can be somehow stressful (overload of information).
If I may give one advice. that will definitely improve your mood regarding this all: Delete all social media apps, stop watching the news and listening to (non-music) radio (and replace it with Spotify or something)
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u/GreyWalken 1d ago
thanks for the info and the tips :)
I already dont watch the news, aside for checking the articles to see if there was no bombing like 2015
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u/Admirable_Taro_6482 23h ago
The whole world is collapsing and there is no perfect place to be now. We have to do with what we have and try and find peace within oneself. Life is a short trip, enjoy the ride.
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u/silverionmox Limburg 23h ago
The market is a constant tug of war between buyer and seller, and between competitors. Consumer organizations are no luxury and exerting political pressure to get and enforce consumer protection is necessary.
If you received a message from the government or the doctor, it used to be via letter or email. But now they have eBox, MyFin, FartBox, the Helena ap, and who knows what else, as if I'm going to remember and check 100 sites every day.
Relevant xkcd: https://xkcd.com/927/
For about a year now, they’ve only been collecting the trash every 2 weeks, and you’re limited then, because you only have one container. So I get to play trash man myself and take garbage bags to the recycling center.
IMO not unfair that above a certain volume of waste the waste creator gets to deal with it themself. I don't know whether that volume is appropriate for your situation.
I haven't seen the locket (human ticket counter) open at the train station in the past few years. What are you supposed to do if you have questions?
That's the result of the pretty much nonstop budget cutting of public transport.
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u/ApostelXIII 17h ago
Somewhere along the way it seems like we lost our most valuable possession: "Gezond boerenverstand".
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u/MarekProgrammer 15h ago
Yes all is going downhill, everything becomes super expensive nowadays. Food has worse ingridients. Capitalism: company makes 2 000 000 000 euro profit pays 5 000 000 000 dividents to rich and fires 1 200 people. And young people cannot afford house anymore even with 25 years of credit.
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u/Keet11Goose 15h ago
I'm a very positive minded person, but yes, it does not seem to get any better lately.
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u/TuezysaurusRex 14h ago
Welcome to the late stage capitalistic world the boomers left everyone else to deal with.
Sorry to say, but it’s only going to get worse until people stop allowing tax breaks and protective measures for the rich, it won’t change unless the boomers actually start leaving their jobs, and dye off. They’ve been nothing but a drain on the rest of us born after them, and the bullshit right wing politicians need to go
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u/BleekBlekerBleekst 14h ago
Currently listening to The History of Rome and it's scary how themes that contributed to the fall of the western Roman empire ~1500 years ago are happening right now: failed integration, the increasing gap between the rich and the poort, over taxation of the middle class while the rich find ways around it, runaway inflation, wars at the borders, (religious &) cultural divide...
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u/NoValueSoDeep 14h ago
I really don't recognise this. Half of what you list is stuff that got better for me. Parcel lockers are open 24/7. I used to take a half day off to wait for a delivery that showed up at 17:58. Now I grab it on my way home whenever I want.
eBox is one place for all the government mail instead of letters getting lost or buried under pizza flyers. And I see my blood test results on my phone two days later without phoning the doctor's secretary.
The bin is collected less because most of what we throw out now goes in PMD, paper or the food waste bin. Mine is half empty when they pick it up.
Some things did get worse, no argument there. But "everything is going downhill" is a stretch. Sounds more like a bad week, mate.
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u/Artistic_Invite_9004 14h ago
Ahh a pessimistic view on life, just what I need on a sunny Saturday morning.
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u/Bo_The_Destroyer Oost-Vlaanderen 13h ago
It's called enshittification. Everyone makes apps and websites for everything and none of them work well. Plus our government is slashing funding and spending everywhere except their own damn pockets and the pockets of whatever companies whose CEO's they go golfing with over the weekends. Welcome to neoliberalism ig
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u/blinkybill_6 11h ago
Back in the day technology helped improve things for everyone, now it only seems like its only for their own improvement and the customer just has to deal with it. Postal services were on point, you order something that says you will have it next day and you did. Now it sometimes takes a day or 2 to be even shipped out. Multiple times ordered stuff that ended up not being in stock. One time i had ordered something more exclusive and expensive so i let it deliver to a pick up point (store that sells newspaper and such) when it was taling longer then i expected i started looking into it and saw it was being send back because apparently that store closed. Thanks for letting me know i guess could have picked another pick up but no. The list goes on and on and you are definitly not on your own
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u/retronax 11h ago
"there's a new document in your ebox" tell me what the fuck it is aaaaah
I hate having to use Itsme to just check anything mildly government related
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u/tulptulptulp 10h ago
and since the pandemic ended, everyone just got colder and meaner. a lot of people anyway.
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u/Deep_Dance8745 1d ago
As someone who has lived and worked abroad (and half if the year still do).
Yes Belgium is degrading quickly.
People that claim otherwise are like frogs being boiled.
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u/No-swimming-pool 1d ago
The problem is that you're putting the reference of comparison at the point we were going at our finest.
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u/MatthewWolfbane 1d ago
It's okay to vent out frustration sometimes.