r/biblereading • u/ExiledSanity John 15:5-8 • 11d ago
Lamentations 3:34-66 (Tuesday, October 6)
I have to feel a bit like I should have broken up the schedule to give myself some of the hope in the verses that closed yesterday’s reading, but it didn’t’ quite work out that way. Today’s reading goes back into the depths of pain and suffering that has been common in this book.
Lamentations 3:34-66 (ESV)
34 To crush underfoot
all the prisoners of the earth,
35 to deny a man justice
in the presence of the Most High,
36 to subvert a man in his lawsuit,
the Lord does not approve.
37 Who has spoken and it came to pass,
unless the Lord has commanded it?
38 Is it not from the mouth of the Most High
that good and bad come?
39 Why should a living man complain,
a man, about the punishment of his sins?
40 Let us test and examine our ways,
and return to the Lord!
41 Let us lift up our hearts and hands
to God in heaven:
42 “We have transgressed and rebelled,
and you have not forgiven.
43 “You have wrapped yourself with anger and pursued us,
killing without pity;
44 you have wrapped yourself with a cloud
so that no prayer can pass through.
45 You have made us scum and garbage
among the peoples.
46 “All our enemies
open their mouths against us;
47 panic and pitfall have come upon us,
devastation and destruction;
48 my eyes flow with rivers of tears
because of the destruction of the daughter of my people.
49 “My eyes will flow without ceasing,
without respite,
50 until the Lord from heaven
looks down and sees;
51 my eyes cause me grief
at the fate of all the daughters of my city.
52 “I have been hunted like a bird
by those who were my enemies without cause;
53 they flung me alive into the pit
and cast stones on me;
54 water closed over my head;
I said, ‘I am lost.’
55 “I called on your name, O Lord,
from the depths of the pit;
56 you heard my plea, ‘Do not close
your ear to my cry for help!’
57 You came near when I called on you;
you said, ‘Do not fear!’
58 “You have taken up my cause, O Lord;
you have redeemed my life.
59 You have seen the wrong done to me, O Lord;
judge my cause.
60 You have seen all their vengeance,
all their plots against me.
61 “You have heard their taunts, O Lord,
all their plots against me.
62 The lips and thoughts of my assailants
are against me all the day long.
63 Behold their sitting and their rising;
I am the object of their taunts.
64 “You will repay them, O Lord,
according to the work of their hands.
65 You will give them dullness of heart;
your curse will be on them.
66 You will pursue them in anger and destroy them
from under your heavens, O Lord.”
Questions for Contemplation and Discussion
1. In the overall structure of this chapter (yesterday’s reading and today’s) we see hope quite literally in the midst of pain and despair. What does it mean to find hope in the midst of pain and suffering? How does that play out in our lives today?
2. Are verses 34-36 an admission of (corporate) guilt in Israel (things we’ve seen the prophets condemn)? Or is this something else?
3. In verse 38 states that both “good and bad” come from “the mouth of the Most High”. What does it mean for “bad” to come from God?
4. Verses 55 and following seem to be a return to hope, but its also a plea for God to punish the enemies of the one praying. Is this hope, or is this something else?
2
u/Scared_Eggplant4892 Zechariah 4:10 11d ago
- I only really think it's possible to find hope in the midst of despair when you have Jesus in your sights. Without Him, none of this makes any sense. It seems fruitless. Futile. Exhausting. Suffering after suffering, with no sense and no end in sight. But it's only after meeting Him, and seeing how He faced injustice, how He faced suffering, how He who had no sin suffered silently through it all for mine, that you can start to see the light at the end of the tunnel. The escape from sin and death (which is only found in and through Him!) Jesus sets our eyes and minds and hearts, by way of His Holy Spirit, on things that are above, not below. He reminds us that the suffering on this plane is temporary and will be followed by a time and place where there are no more tears or sorrow or enemies or consequences for sins. Because sin and death will be removed far from us, and Christ will be our light. When times get tough, that thought is what gets me through the most of it.
- I'd go farther than that. Yes, it's an admission of corporate guilt, but I think it's more than that - I think the author (presumably Jeremiah, especially with all of the pit language we see here) is pinpointing the exact, specific sins that Israel was guilty of that brought this whole predicament down upon them.
- God only makes or creates the good. But He can use ALL things for our good. God doesn't have to manufacture sin in order to be able to use the sinner or the consequences of that sin to benefit a believer. Further, He can also take the sins of His children and use the "evil" of the consequences to mend up a broken heart or bring a sinner to his or her knees in earnest repentance. Like Joseph said to his brothers, "What you intended for evil, God used for my good." When God sends what feels evil to us who are living, we often think of it as "picking on us," when in fact, we should realize that while we are yet living, anything and everything can be used for God's Kingdom.
- I think that there are two things at play here. One I can get behind, and the other makes me uncomfortable. First, anytime you find yourself in a pit, call out and do whatever you can to get rescued from it. Personally, I think that quest starts by calling out to God, but I know for some people, it takes a while to come to that conclusion. It's the second part I struggle with. I know that we as Christians have enemies. But I know they are never human. There is always some evil entity or intent behind the actions of humans. They are deceived. And since anyone who isn't with Christ is against Him, there are a lot of folks out there who (knowingly or not) allow themselves to be the vessels for Satan and his powers. I never want to call down death or despair or justice or revenge on any of the humans that set themselves against me, because tomorrow, that human could be converted like Paul and become a powerful worker for the Kingdom of Christ. I just don't know. So, I'm not big on revenge or vengeance. I hope that in all things, no matter how horrible or heinous, I might be able to extend grace and forgiveness.
3
u/winkyprojet 11d ago
1.
Like Jesus, we have our own Stations of the Cross to bear.
The earth is not paradise, it is a place of passage to paradise.
When we suffer, it comes from our sins.
When we experience pleasure, it comes from our good deeds.
God is just; all good comes from him, all evil comes from me.
If I want to avoid suffering myself, I must avoid causing suffering to others.
We come to earth under judgment after an original sin; we must expect trials, live through them, and face them.
2.
God is just, there is no collective punishment, there is no punishment of children because of their parents as some interpret it.
God knows the spirits before sending them to earth; he does not send them randomly anywhere, Each spirit is sent to a specific mother, chosen with precision, mother and father pre-selected, in a well-defined neighborhood, a chosen country, everything is fixed by divine judgment.
Do not underestimate divine justice; every eyelash on your eyelid is there, subject to its implacable judgment.
3.
We must distinguish between evil which comes from God and God is not the origin of evil, man is the origin of evil.
Is the car manufacturer responsible for a death caused by your car?
The knife manufacturer is not responsible for a murder you commit with your knife.
Every evil suffered by man has returned to man; if this evil ever falls upon man, it is because it has been returned to him by God.
The man who spends his time blaming God would do better to spend his time questioning himself.
God is good and just.
4.
What I'm about to say is important, very important:
I am often told:
If your suffering is justified by your sins, then an aggressor who attacks you is justified and innocent!
That's completely false.
The aggressor will have to face human justice and divine justice in turn.
I must do everything to stop the aggressor, make him pay reparations, and God will bring him justice, one day or another.
Accepting God's justice does not mean accepting the injustice of men, but on the contrary, human injustice must be rejected.
Without sins, there would be no evil or death.
We must seek justice and impose it, we must do good and good works, we will be judged for our good deeds.
The topic of divine justice often comes up in forums, and it is often incomprehensible, but that's normal.
There's a gap between the time man commits evil and God's dispensing of justice! God says He is slow to anger!
And when God's justice falls, often man will have forgotten the harm he has done to others, and because of this discrepancy, atheists often accuse God of injustice.