r/bropill • u/Phantasmagoric_42 • 11d ago
Asking for advice 🙏 Getting treated worse by guys after top surgery, need a confidence boost
Hey bros, trans bro here, sorry if this doesn't belong here. I'm 21 and am nonbinary, mostly masc leaning. I got top surgery back in July, and it's been fantastic. But ever since going back out in public, I've had more creepy/weird interactions with men than I've ever had before in my life. Even when I was more fem presenting as a teenager, when most catcalling/harassment/ect starts, I never got this kind of treatment. I dress pretty masc, and that hasn't really changed after top surgery (although I have half a mind to dress fem more often, because ironically that seems to be when they leave me alone). I don't pass vocally yet, but I don't even have to open my mouth for them to get weird.
I have a few theories and none of them are good. The first one is that they see me and feel some type of confused, so they take it out in this way. The second is that maybe with a flat chest they think I'm a younger girl (🤢)? The third is obviously not quite passing, but again, it feels like there's something more to it than just that because top surgery is basically the only thing that's changed in that regard. It's mostly older guys, I'd say 35+ emphasis on the plus. Could also be men like this feeling emboldened in the current political climate, although creeps are creeps no matter what. Or maybe in some cases I've stumbled on the demographic of guys who will never admit their attraction to men/masculinity and make it other people's problem. Maybe it's being even more visibly queer? I don't know, I'm at a loss and none of these answers are good. It just feels like no matter what there's nothing I can do about it.
There was a guy at work old enough to be my dad yesterday that made a weird pass at me, and I'm at a breaking point where I just need some advice as to wtf is going on, and a confidence boost. This is making me bitter towards myself and humanity as a whole. I feel more confident in myself than ever, but that seems to have painted a target on my back. I feel like I somehow am being targeted even more by these kinds of guys and that feels invalidating and scary. What if it's only a matter of time before it goes beyond words? Would also love advice on what to do, because I just kind of freeze and don't know what to do from shame.
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u/Jaszs I just like people! :) 11d ago
Second cousin (also FtM) had this problem and told me his experience. Bad news is that weird people aren't uncommon. Good news is that you reach a point that either a) his body changed with time AND b) he learned how to ignore those kind of bad people. Either way you'r problem will be solved haha
Good luck buddy bro buddy pal fella amigo tronco colega
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u/jamiegc1 11d ago edited 11d ago
Many people think transmascs look much younger than they are. If they are reading you as a man but not straight, it could be a combination of homophobia and closeted men wanting you.
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u/youaintitbub 11d ago
I really hate to say it but you’re probably right about coming off as younger, but it may not be them thinking you’re a younger girl. I was a twinky looking dude in my 20s and older men could be absolutely disgusting to me.
I hope you continue to carry yourself with confidence and don’t let other men ruin being a man for you.
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u/sleeping_inside 10d ago
Hopefully I’m allowed to comment in this sub as a woman, but I think this is it too. All the worst encounters I’ve had with strange men happened when I was under the age of 13. Creepy men are generally creepier to young girls than they are to women in my experience.
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u/PM-ME-CURSED-PICS 10d ago
anyone is welcome on this sub btw, as long as they're a bro (aka respectful and supportive)
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u/Phantasmagoric_42 10d ago
I've heard that from a lot of people. Growing up I was honestly surprised it never really happened to me outside of one time when I was 14. I don't think I look like a young teen, let alone a kid, but I think a fair amount of time people see me as at least a couple years younger than I am. Regardless of how they're perceiving me in a gendered way, apparently they don't know how to fucking act around teenagers and it's fucking gross .
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u/DucksButt 11d ago
Part of it is probably that you look younger, part of it may be that you look queerer. For some, especially older, people from a sexually gated culture, like they grew up with in America, queerness is not self expression or identity, it's "breaking all the rules around sex."
So, if you will sleep with someone assigned the same gender as you at birth, you'll probably also sleep with someone hella older than you. You're queer, so anything goes in their mind. Kinda wild when you think about it. I wonder what they think your friday night is. Abortions followed by orgies?
I wish I had a wand to wave to make the fucksticks less fucksticky. I fear you'll have to develop special skills, or find ways to avoid them.
Hugs bro. It sucks and I wish you didn't have to deal with ti.
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u/Phantasmagoric_42 11d ago
Tbh my plan is to start overcoming the freeze response and just start publicly humiliating them (to the extent I can/what is safe). Stuff like loudly saying "that's a weird thing to say to someone young enough to be your kid/grandchild." I'll gladly help them find some shame, and I can dream that it will be enough to stop making their repression everyone else's problem.
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u/Novenari 10d ago
Something passive aggressive and non-directly confrontational while still being embarrassing to them might be best. If they’re perceiving you as a teen boy or girl, rather than young man (whatever your actual age is), just loudly so others hear maybe say stuff like. “I’m not looking for anyone right now, I’m happy with my boyfriend/girlfriend.” For less confrontation or “Sorry, I’ve got a boyfriend! He’s older too, so I promise it’s not that! I’m just taken!” For higher confrontation/embarrassment. You could even add, “My mom/dad is single now though, I could introduce you!” If they’re try to follow through just give a false number. If you have any cis friends with deep voices willing to play ball you could see if they’d mind helping you if it somehow came to that. Otherwise some fake number.
Pick whatever you feel safest saying in your workplace regardless of your actual orientation. Best of luck!
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u/Possible_Grocery9443 10d ago
It is so empowering to do that. Just, if it involves a coworker, go to HR and tell your side of things. I handled a few harassment cases by pointing out the guy's grandkids were younger than me. Asking how they'd feel about someone their age went after their granddaughters. Or if they'd had feelings about their grandkids. They left me alone after that and I kept conversations purely to business. During my performance review half a year later, I found out they'd complained to my boss and I got about $1000 less of a bonus that year for being unfriendly and difficult to work with. It could've been changed if I'd reported my side. But since I didn't, it just looked like I was upset about the money.
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u/currentlyintheclouds 10d ago
Dude I want an abortion orgy night wtf everyone else gets to have all the fun
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u/Beautiful-Bad5203 2d ago
God damn... I never even considered this, but now that you say it, I realize that I've seen this in so many different forms.
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u/beerncoffeebeans 11d ago
About freezing: It’s a stress response you can’t always control but it doesn’t hurt to practice asserting yourself and saying no in less stressful environments so that if someone is in your space and making you uncomfortable you have practice saying it confidently. You don’t need to explain yourself. “You doing anything later?” “No.”
And if any customers are harassing you regularly like coming in and trying to talk to you, make passes, or find out things about you, tell your manager. You deserve to be safe at work
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u/CHOLO_ORACLE Egoist 11d ago
I think some guys don’t realize they’re chasers until they are presented with something to chase. I’ve seen this happen first hand - a conservative leaning man man who insisted he’s straight developing a “curious” fascination with trans folks after first time he got to actually interact with one
So I think your instincts of stumbling upon a weird subset of dudes is correct. And also the creeps of course.
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u/Phantasmagoric_42 10d ago edited 10d ago
I literally just got a sticker for my water bottle of a cat under a trans flag blanket that says "curiosity is not entitlement", so this feels like apt timing 😅. Honestly nice to remember that in that case, it's entirely on them and I'm not the one who should be embarrassed. I just wish they wouldn't make it my problem.
I've also been wondering if maybe sometimes I'm being perceived as a queer woman, and this behavior is either them fetishizing that or throwing a fit because I'm not "for them". Either way, they're probably just walking around making a wide range of people uncomfortable and it's unfortunate. Sounds like a sad way to live.
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u/Zack-Applewhite 9d ago
I think the theories you have are solid. Here's a couple more to add to the pile.
- Fem enough to pass as a tomboy, which a lot of guys dig and find more approachable.
- They see you as male, but hate seeing feminine traits in men. This is way more common than people think and because cis men were raised with it we are often not conscious of it but there is this sort of rejection of all things feminine where some guys act like a social immune system against it. Like how guys might make fun of their friends for listening to "girly" music, buying "girly" drinks at the bar, expressing any emotion beyond aggression or lust, choosing to be a "man nurse" as a career, etc.
So much of being "masculine" is focused on avoiding all things "feminine" that any spark of femininity can set some guys off into a weird mood. And because they see femininity as weakness, they feel emboldened to walk right up and bulldoze you.
I don't have a solution other than to tell them to F off as directly, firmly, and early as possible. Which I know isn't a route that is always available to you or the correct way to handle a situation. I do wish I had a proper solution to offer.
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u/AdAway3952 11d ago
A lot of guys get weird around queer people. Really sorry guys are acting like dicks. Your anger is understandable, but if you can try and remind yourself of the good people in the world. I dont really understand what exactly you would look like, so I couldnt tell you what is going through these mens heads , but that isnt important. Fuck those creeps.
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u/JCDU 10d ago
Honest question bro - I've read your post and beside saying you're "masc leaning" it's not 100% clear to me whether you are MTF or FTM and whether the top surgery was adding or removing and that makes it hard to work out how to answer.
Regardless - dudes shouldn't be creeps, people shouldn't make other people feel uncomfortable.
Try to remember when one person makes you feel shitty that you've probably interacted with 100 people today who were fine and nice.
As you say you've been feeling more confident, and it's very often said (and it's true) that confidence is sexy - unfortunately it sounds like you're getting negative consequences of your sexiness.
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u/Phantasmagoric_42 10d ago
Top surgery was removing, not adding 😅. Everything out. I appreciate the spin on the confidence part.
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u/JCDU 10d ago
So you're now looking more masc / less fem and dudes are hitting on you?
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u/Phantasmagoric_42 10d ago
Yep . I think there's a lot of reasons that vary between incidents, but I just want these types of guys to act right and leave people the hell alone.
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u/Rural_Dimwit 11d ago
My best advice from my own experience of older dudes seeing me as a target; become more 'ugly' to them, or look more 'dangerous'.
The second I shaved my hair into a mohawk, all creepy comments stopped for me.
This isn't gonna work well in a workplace, you can't exactly go around with a mohawk up in most workplaces.
I have also known people who gained weight, and as soon as they looked plus sized, it stopped.
Might be easier to pull off at work, but not really great for your health.
An easier thing to do is to learn to walk with more of a swagger, and have a meaner facial expression, like you're ready to fight anyone who approaches you. This one helps even cis women. Nobody typically wants to bother someone who might stab them.
Again, might not help much at work if you're doing customer service. They won't want you scaring people away.
My point is; is there something you can do to look less appealing to mega creeps? Something to make yourself look older? Maybe you could change your hairstyle or clothes to look more 'mature'?
It's bullshit that the onus is put on the victim to keep people from acting like assholes to them. The assholes should be the ones who are punished for being disgusting. Unfortunately, the world we live in really doesn't care to protect the innocent, and is quite happy to enable creeps.
I'm so sorry this is happening to you
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u/Phantasmagoric_42 10d ago
Working on the shaved part, but I already have dyed hair. I'd be interested to test if any color in particular acts as a stronger detterant. I'm planning on going for a mullet situation, just need to grow the back out a bit more.
Yeah, can't really mean mug at work, but I've been working on coming off as less nice in public. I say "working on" as if I haven't hit a bit of a breaking point with PTSD (for unrelated reasons) and sometimes can't be bothered to not look fed up with everything and everyone 😅. I don't like it. I feel bad about the idea of "looking mean". But at least it works when I'm walking down the street. There have been a couple times where I don't know what my face did, but it was enough to get someone to leave me alone.
I think I just physically look young and there's not that much to be done about it. I've always looked younger than I really am, and some strangers still seem to think I might be a teenager. And honestly, these creeps don't get to take away my whimsy. I'm not holding myself back because of some random loser who apparently can't get attention from someone his own age.
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u/_HighJack_ 10d ago
Heavy on the mean facial expression. I’m also ftm and I didn’t experience the daily harassment that lots of women do bc I’ve always had resting murder face, even as a child. Most of em want an easy target, so looking like a “huuuuge bitch” is useful lol
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u/redbone-hellhound 8d ago
Lol maybe thats why ive never had a problem with strangers being creeps. Ive been catcalled exactly once and i was in a particularly good mood before that and probably looked more approachable. I have been told i have resting murder face before.
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u/JCDU 10d ago
Good advice - I've seen similar comments over on r/TwoXChromosomes that dyed hair, short hair or even a shaved head acts as a pretty strong repellent to these types.
But yeah it's shit that the victims end up being the ones who have to change.
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u/OtterFouine 10d ago
I feel more confident in myself than ever, but that seems to have painted a target on my back. I feel like I somehow am being targeted even more by these kinds of guys and that feels invalidating and scary.
I don't know if I'm allowed to comment here as a LGBTQ+ woman. But I want to tell you that I'm proud of you. If I were to see you out there, I would look up to you. I think most (straight) people still automatically try to categorize individuals around them. Maybe you don't fit their binary vision; but it doesn't tell anything bad about you. I think you are ahead of times, and that makes you stand out. Please carry on. You don't know how much of an inspiration you might be for people around you.
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u/WickedGrey 10d ago
You belong here. Being a bro is all that's required (and that has nothing to do with gender here).
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u/OtterFouine 1d ago
Thank you. I am really supportive of the r/bropill mission, and I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't imposing my views as an unwelcome intruder.
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u/Eric_Dawsby 10d ago
I think most people categorize things in general, even people (which is silly)
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u/dengjika 11d ago
We can't really say without seeing you but I think it is very likely that you seem younger therefore more vulnerable now. I was horrificly harrassed the most when I was 12-17 years old. I am in my 30s now and I don't look like a teen anymore but when I loose some weight therefore look younger I get more harassment. "I feel more confident in myself than ever, but that seems to have painted a target on my back." - This is how I felt being a woman since the age of 12. I am happy you feel confident in your body because there is no other way but to truly be yourself, but I do regularly wonder if it's worth it because of all the violence.
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u/roblqjm 11d ago
It's because they're gay dude, you're getting hit on as a little gay twink. Idk if that is gender affirming at the very least... Sucks
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u/Harpy_Larpy 11d ago
No it’s not… op is visibly queer so they’re probably just being asses. Don’t lump being closeted with dickheads
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u/favenn 11d ago
"you're experiencing <insert flavor of queerphobia>? must be the fault of those queers!"
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u/Blackout_Underway 11d ago
There are many on here who may have more experience, and better advice than me. I'm not trans, but I am an ally and have family who have transitioned.
It's clear that you don't particularly welcome that kind of attention, and I'm really sorry you're getting more of it now than ever.
I wouldn't change a thing about you. Dress how you want, present how you WANT. Be you.
But, you may just have to learn how to turn men down.
As they say, we can't control others, only how we react to them.
Your non-negotiables are presenting yourself in a way that makes you confident, as well as not letting other people's behavior drag you down.
Fuck em. Not literally. They can go to hell.
If I were you I'd reject them in a way that amuses you. Like, be a little mean about it, for example.
Edit: them.
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u/567swimmey 7d ago
Ive been flat chested my entire life and ive hardly been hit on, so I doubt your first theory is correct.
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u/Immediate_Hyena2901 11d ago
You need to speak with your boss about a coworker making you uncomfortable regardless of your gender identity or the theorized motivations of your coworker. Remember, if it’s not written down it didn’t happen, so after you speak with your manager, email them “hey boss just wanted to note down we spoke about how Coworker is making me feel uncomfortable when he said “Xyz” and you said you were going to follow up with so and so then get back to me”