r/classicwow • u/ResponsibleWeekend76 • 18d ago

Forever Tipsout (100k Tourney Organizer) issues statement regarding streamers using RMT gold

“Hello @everyone

We have drafted our first set of rule modifications and will post them later tonight.

As a reminder to all, per the rules:

*As WoW:Forever is still an unsolved game, item/consumable bans may be modified at any time. The TFO team, at its sole discretion, may update, amend, or supplement this document at any time. Competitors are responsible for reading and understanding all of the rules, regulations, and policies dictated in this document.*

As always, there remains the possibility of future changes once level cap is raised as we continue collecting data on this new version of Warcraft. Please remain up to date on the rules at all time.

Separately, we have been made aware of a few suspect instances where competitor gold buying may have potentially taken place. We will be straightforward about this now: any explicitly confirmed instances of gold buying during our events will result in immediate disqualification and lifetime ban from any event we put on. We expect players continue to abide by the rules and Blizzard/Warcraft ToS. If you want to buy gold, open an IRA (not financial advice).”

Source: The Forever PvP Event Discord

There seems to be a chance the event organizers will remove certain streamers from the bracket due to the ongoing conversations around RMT, interested to see if they follow through with any actions.

719 Upvotes

91% Upvoted

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582

u/EvadableMoxie 18d ago

Watch them say Peyo and Ziqo don't count because they just accepted gold someone else bought instead of buying it themselves.

170

u/pimpcakes 18d ago

Separately, we have been made aware of a few suspect instances where competitor gold buying may have potentially taken place. We will be straightforward about this now: any explicitly confirmed instances of gold buying during our events will result in immediate disqualification and lifetime ban from any event we put on.

It's right there in the bolded/italicized. They'll say it wasn't "explicitly confirmed," come up with the best reasoning possible, and move on. Yes, we know it's absurd. But the people who were going to watch the event will still watch (with some small exceptions) and there will be almost no consequences, even for Peyo and his clear admission. The comment sections already have his defenders saying he didn't buy it directly - which is the mob defense from the 1930s and doesn't absolve anyone - and the target audience is the very people who watch Payo et al. in the first place so they obviously have no issues with gold buying in the first place.

20

u/Jokin_0815 17d ago

Also it is Phrasen as during. Not before or after only during the tournament. At that point no one needs to buy any more Gold anyway

0

u/pimpcakes 17d ago

Good catch. I took that to be the ban would be during but it's vague enough to do what you said.

22

u/teledium88 17d ago

just words. means nothing until someone actually gets banned.

30

u/tinylittlebabyjesus 18d ago

It's solicitation, yeah. Bought gold is still bought gold, doesn't matter if you launder it through an intermediary, it's just as damaging to the economy, and just as devaluing to the gold you worked for. It's the principle, and they're making Blizzard look bad.

-14

u/Frekavichk 18d ago edited 18d ago

Where's the line? You buy gold, then you donate it to the gbank.

You buy gold and then pay for a boost.

You buy gold then pay for summons/ports.

You buy gold and help someone with their epic mount.

Do you seriously think all of those people you gave gold to should be banned?

10

u/tinylittlebabyjesus 18d ago

Do you seriously think all of those should be bannable?

Is this guy for real? Is this how bad it's gotten? Yeah. Don't buy gold. How daft are we these days? Fucking cheaters bro.

-2

u/Frekavichk 18d ago

Are you braindead? Obviously I'm referring to the people getting the gold from the buyer, like the person I replied to is implying.

-3

u/I_Learned_Once 18d ago

Yes, he is brain dead. They all are.

3

u/Ugliest_weenie 18d ago

Boosting is just rife with RMT

4

u/Sensitive-Dust1522 18d ago

There’s no line, you don’t buy gold. Period. I don’t get how this is difficult to understand

-3

u/Frekavichk 18d ago

So you think anyone you trade gold to after buying should be banned?

2

u/Sensitive-Dust1522 18d ago

Don’t know, if I buy gold I probably don’t care what happens to the people I give it to. Never had to think about it because I don’t buy gold.

It’s a game, I play it for my enjoyment. I have absolutely zero ambition in being even remotely the best at something in this game. Wow is not a competitive game by any reasonable definition.

3

u/Frekavichk 18d ago

...? So you think all of the people in that sotuation deserve to be banned?

4

u/Juniperguy22 17d ago

Its the exact same situation when people accept laundered money, they get punished once its found out, same shit here, use your brain kid

1

u/Sensitive-Dust1522 17d ago

How many people are in this situation? Been playing for quite a few years and never had a random lv1 come to me and trade me 1000G.

I would probably decline if that happens because common sense but who knows…

2

u/Greensnake4711 18d ago

Yeah, of course?

2

u/moosecatlol 18d ago

You Buy Gold

Ding Dong Perma Bannu

37

u/DrainTheMuck 18d ago

We have an entire court and jury system IRL to deal with “vague” scenarios like this that don’t technically literally apply to the law as written. I think people are going to be disappointed if they think it’s realistic for Blizz or these event organizers to be as thorough as that.

If they want to ban people based on interpretation that the person used a middle man, they could, but everyone in the comments is trying to act like a jury when that’s not how it works.

16

u/slightlysublevel 18d ago

We have an entire court and jury system IRL to deal with “vague” scenarios like this that don’t technically literally apply to the law as written. I think people are going to be disappointed if they think it’s realistic for Blizz or these event organizers to be as thorough as that.

That's the brilliant part: they don't have to! The EULA basically says "we can ban you for any reason or no reason at all, get fucked." That means Blizzard can ban people (yes, including your beloved streamers) just because of the uproar they're causing. They don't need to go through a court case to implement consequences, because this isn't a legal matter. They're just refusing to utilize their purposefully empowered EULA all because the cheaters in this instance happen to be popular.

4

u/kakalib 17d ago

I feel like blizzard should ban people at random each day, because "get fucked".

Uproar is also laughable. 

1

u/TheBungler2 16d ago

Uproar is also laughable. 

I actually chuckled at that. Mans really thinks people should be banned because Redditors are being annoying.

5

u/zipclam 17d ago

What is your argument here? Of course they can ban you for whatever reason they'd like. I mean I think you should be banned for buying gold too, but as far as I know, he just accepted a large sum of it.

How do you know any of the gold you'll be traded in the future isn't bought? Is it going to be an official rule where you can't accept large sums of gold, or you can, but maybe you'll be banned? This just sounds so childish.

3

u/IsaacNeteros 17d ago edited 17d ago

That's the thing that bothers me with these people asking them to be banned, it's a slippery slope. If you ban this person, these streamers specifically, for receiving gold from someone who rmt'd, without actual proof that it was they themselves that purchased it, your setting a precedent that will fuck over everyone.

Someone who rmt's can just, create a burner account, buy 100 gold, send a gold piece to 100 people and now they all get banned because they accepted it..... New players aren't going to know to return it or report suspicious mail or this player is nefarious and instead said he wants to help me with a gold piece. Banning those streamers for vibes and circumstantial evidence will not create an example NOT to buy rmt, it will create a precedent for some to harass and get people banned.

Blizzard is doing the correct thing they stated, ban the rmt account, remove any gold. Better yet, limit the amount traded at once, put a time restraint on trading transactions, suspensions for suspicious activity, there's better alternatives to think of then going rabid and asking for bans.

0

u/slightlysublevel 17d ago

your setting a precedent that will fuck over everyone.

You're*

And no you're not. There's absolutely no requirement to use these bannings as defined rules for who else must be banned. This could literally be a one-off and that's it. Hell, if they really wanted to, they could ban these people, and then turn around and make RMT allowed. That's the beauty of this being a company and not the government: they don't have to apply the same rules to everyone in the same way. You thinking they must just shows how little you understand.

0

u/TheBungler2 16d ago

Everyone knows they can, they're just trying to get through to you why doing things just because they can is worse.

3

u/DrainTheMuck 17d ago

You missed my entire point, I know they can do anything. I was illustrating why it’s messy enough for them to decide not to.

3

u/Coolmyco 17d ago

Yup, you don't even own your own account or the games.

Blizz can take it anytime.

9

u/Sky-Dragonrider 17d ago

“I didn’t buy the drugs, Officer. Some guy just handed them to me and I used them.” Hmm, seems legit. 😂

5

u/pimpcakes 18d ago

No one thinks we need a full on court system. Payo literally admitted in on stream and there is video evidence of him discussing the amount of gold he needed (and likely the player that gave it to him is himself a gold seller, but that's not necessary to show a TOS violation). It's not that complicated, and you don't get due process for this.

2

u/PsikickTheRealOne 17d ago

Not only is he a gold seller. He was a known duper in another game. His gold isn't natty.

0

u/Cdux 17d ago

This is exactly the grey middle ground gold buyers love. You just use a second wow account and transfer it to your main. Easy.

17

u/Kraut_Mick 18d ago

If I have sex with a prostitute my buddy bought for me, really good chance I get arrested and my name in the paper. I don’t think banning accounts for violating the ToS requires that much evidence. But ultimately it’s just another reason why they need human GM’s back.

25

u/Ugliest_weenie 18d ago

That's an unfair comparison because I respect a John more than a gold buyer

2

u/ireallydunnowhat 17d ago

Til john is a slang for a „client“
I was srsly confised who is john haha

-1

u/Prettybroki 18d ago

accepted gold someone else bought

like how could you know who bought it, there is no differance (trade, mail. ah) dosnt change much the method too, couse if you go off stream and stream the day after people will notice too, so this is the best way atm just random ''gift''

16

u/pimpcakes 18d ago

As an attorney, I love when people think there has to be a literal smoking gun for everything and ignore circumstantial evidence and reasonable inferences. It's even funnier seeing it w/r/t things that don't involve constitutional protections like due process.

In any event, there's more there (from videos and chats that were streamed and from basic things that you can infer from hundreds of gold from one person on a 2 week old server "gifted" to a streamer and another 1500g and...) than your summary implies anyway.

Nice try, though.

1

u/Ok_Razzmatazz2478 17d ago

Well now I’m interested. Because of the current situation what do you think? Because there tousends of arguments but what’s realistic for our streamer.

-7

u/Prettybroki 18d ago

i didnt understand a single sentence sorry

12

u/WeightVegetable106 18d ago

The server is 2 weeks old, top lvl is 20, there is pretty much no way bro could have farmed 400g legit, it was at some point been bought, everyone knows that.

-5

u/Prettybroki 18d ago

never doubted that

6

u/WeightVegetable106 18d ago

Why does it matter who boight it then? We know at some point it has been bought and given.

-4

u/Prettybroki 18d ago

yeah bot exist whats your point?

-4

u/TechniCruller 18d ago

But this is where I disagree. There are plenty of ways to accomplish 400g in my eyes. I hardly play and I’ve made 10% of that. There are people with 20s of every class, I have one. The Murloc food recipe is 10% of that alone - early market dominance could empower someone to control the market for certain items and make real money

3

u/WeightVegetable106 18d ago

You hardly play and gave 40g? Doubt that, whats your /played

-2

u/karemili 17d ago

40 hours of raid skinning would get you that gold, 20 hours if you did it early in the beta. You are just shit at making gold.

1

u/WeightVegetable106 17d ago

When did raid skkining start being a thing?

1

u/karemili 17d ago

During the beta. Its stupid and should be removed from the game. Literally printing gold. Anyone that tags the mob in the raid can skin it even if you miss the attack. With hyperspawn you get 15 stacks of leather an hour.

1

u/WeightVegetable106 17d ago

First day of beta?

1

u/karemili 17d ago

No idea if it was in on day one but atleast been known for 1 week+ and people been running it 24/7 since. You also had stuff like recipes from lvl 8-9 mobs that vendored for 18s a pop with 10% drop rate and hyperspawn. Plenty of ways to print 5-10 gold an hour just from vendoring. Now imagine whats not known to the public. The gold in circulation is massive for lvl 20.

3

u/NuklearFerret 18d ago

It doesn’t really matter, though. If there’s enough conjecture about it, they can still ban at their discretion. It’s kind of like how public figures aren’t supposed to accept gifts that could be seen as bribes. You can just refuse the gifts if you’re worried about the perception of RMT involvement

1

u/Pooncheese 18d ago

How can we even tell it's "someone else" and not just an alt or a mod they paid or something, they can launder it themselves. Use alt, give it to some "friend" and then have them just give it back to them...

0

u/Immediate_Tale_553 17d ago

If they want to really be like runescape they'd ban the entire bloodline of anyone that touches rwt currency. Those bans are no joke lol.

-7

u/Xphurrious 18d ago

I mean they didn't rmt, so imo as not a fan of either one of them, they shouldn't be banned, by Blizzard at least

I am a fan of Blizzard confiscating the gold, i have no idea what the TO should do, other than make the tournament self found but that would be difficult

3

u/slightlysublevel 18d ago

Just so we're clear, your argument is that in order to avoid a ban for gold buying, all you need to do is get someone else to pay for it? That's really your position on this?

-1

u/Xphurrious 17d ago

Nope, but (for the most part, as far as we can tell) the streamers are just getting traded gold, which is a tale as old as time, they aren't facilitating this

And like i said, blizzard says its rmt gold, so they took the gold, then even if this is happening, you're literally just paying a gold farmer for literally nothing, which would make people stop doing it in short order

-2

u/Fantastic_Cycle_4500 18d ago

Payo was just trolling bro