Tipsout (100k Tourney Organizer) issues statement regarding streamers using RMT gold

[u/ResponsibleWeekend76]

“Hello @everyone

We have drafted our first set of rule modifications and will post them later tonight.

As a reminder to all, per the rules:

*As WoW:Forever is still an unsolved game, item/consumable bans may be modified at any time. The TFO team, at its sole discretion, may update, amend, or supplement this document at any time. Competitors are responsible for reading and understanding all of the rules, regulations, and policies dictated in this document.*

As always, there remains the possibility of future changes once level cap is raised as we continue collecting data on this new version of Warcraft. Please remain up to date on the rules at all time.

Separately, we have been made aware of a few suspect instances where competitor gold buying may have potentially taken place. We will be straightforward about this now: any explicitly confirmed instances of gold buying during our events will result in immediate disqualification and lifetime ban from any event we put on. We expect players continue to abide by the rules and Blizzard/Warcraft ToS. If you want to buy gold, open an IRA (not financial advice).”

Source: The Forever PvP Event Discord

There seems to be a chance the event organizers will remove certain streamers from the bracket due to the ongoing conversations around RMT, interested to see if they follow through with any actions.

[u/Hrvatmilan2]

Getting given gold is a bit different to buying gold. It’s still bad but not as bad

[u/MaximumMeaning9728 → u/Hrvatmilan2]

Prove someone bought gold versus being given it.

[u/Hrvatmilan2 → u/MaximumMeaning9728]

I can’t but it’s not unlikely that a huge streamer in wow would be given gold by fans or even someone trying to sabotage them. happens all the time.

[u/MaximumMeaning9728 → u/Hrvatmilan2]

Don’t accept the gold?

You didn’t even pose a particularly difficult scenario.

[u/Xphurrious → u/MaximumMeaning9728]

Why not? You can't prove it was or wasn't bought, what if someone buys your auction with bought gold, should you be banned then? What if xaryu is doing gold duels and someone does it with bought gold

There's way more nuance than your close minded take

[u/Ogge89 → u/Xphurrious]

Did he trade anything of value or did he just recive gold from a rmt mule as if he just bought gold?

[u/valmian → u/Xphurrious]

In this specific scenario Ziqo said “no ways that’s natty” (paraphrasing).

If you don’t think it’s naturally farmed gold then don’t accept it.

If you accept stolen goods as payment for a service you can be charged with (I think, IANAL) larceny

[u/zellmerz → u/Xphurrious]

These are such disingenuous straw man arguments. If you are selling items normally on the AH why would there be any need to ban you if someone bought it worth RMT gold? You cannot control who buys your auctions, you can control not accepting large sums of gold from strangers.

[u/Xphurrious → u/zellmerz]

But what you just said legalizes listing a grey item for 1000g and the rmt'er buying it

Im just saying it's not black and white when the end user didn't rmt

[u/zellmerz → u/Xphurrious]

What you suggested isn’t normal AH behaviour. What is with you and these strawmans. If a player puts up some pointless item for an obscene amount on the AH and Blizzard can tell the item was purchased by a gold seller, there is a pretty clear indication of what went on.

Blizzard is better off banning the gold buyers, this killing the market for selling. The main advantage sellers have is whenever a ban wave happens, they can figure out why they were banned and fix it. They cant really figure out why their buyers are being banned the same way. Market dries up, we see less gold sellers and then they are even easier to combat.

[u/Xphurrious → u/zellmerz]

I agree

But i don't understand why people want the streamers heads that aren't committing any rmt, but are just accepting trades from people

[u/valmian → u/Xphurrious]

Because streamers have blatantly RMTed or received “gifts” without receiving penalties like us normies.

Guaranteed if I accepted a 380g “gift” from a level 1 character I didn’t know, I’d be banned. Streamer privilege means they are above the rules that apply to us, that’s why

[u/doedskarp → u/Xphurrious]

Which is still a bannable offence according to Blizzard themselves. But here they obviously put on their silk gloves instead. Wonder why?

[u/zellmerz → u/Xphurrious]

The streamers are grown ass adults that can reasonably suspect the gold they are accepting is RMT. They can accept some responsibility

[u/captainorganic07 → u/MaximumMeaning9728]

Prove that level 1 genuinely farmed 350gold. I’ll wait… you can’t, the cunt bought gold it’s as clear as day. If you say otherwise you’re either stupid or naive or both.

[u/TechniCruller → u/captainorganic07]

It’s kind of the obligation to prove someone guilty, not innocent lol. Some of you fuckers would do terrible things if you had any station in life.

[u/Scodo → u/TechniCruller]

That's in a court of law. Not an online game. There's no reason to give someone the benefit of the doubt when we already know they're accepting illegitimate donations via the account action that already happened.

[u/captainorganic07 → u/TechniCruller]

We literally watched him “get gifted” 350g from a level 1. Back to back another 150g. What more proof do you want? Like I said; stupid and naive.

[u/TechniCruller → u/captainorganic07]

That’s not proof of anything. It’s suspicious, without doubt and I’d wager something nefarious has taken place…but a suspicious act isn’t evidence of wrongdoing. By your logic the prisons would be full of innocent people and that isn’t justice.

[u/captainorganic07 → u/TechniCruller]

The underlying principle is simple: when a transaction is wildly inconsistent with what could reasonably have been earned legitimately, the explanation for the money matters.

A fresh level-1 character transferring 350g/175g isn’t proof of RMT by itself. But it’s strong circumstantial evidence because there is no reasonable gameplay explanation for a level-1 generating that amount.
You don’t need a literal screenshot saying “I bought this gold for $X” to recognize a suspicious transaction. That’s how financial investigations work too: unexplained assets/transfers can trigger scrutiny even when the underlying illegal transaction isn’t directly documented.

Could there be a legitimate explanation? Sure. But “technically possible” isn’t the same as “reasonably explained.”

At that scale, the onus is on the recipient to provide a credible legitimate explanation, not on Blizzard to produce a literal RMT receipt.

This happens in the real world too, IRS confiscation of proceeds of crime when the “I found a million dollars” is reasonably assumed to have a legit paper trail - you can’t so fraud charges ensue. The ATO in Australia just locked up someone for this exact thing, inaccurate book keeping on suspected money laundering charges. 2 yrs imprisonment.

[u/TechniCruller → u/captainorganic07]

No doubt. Again - you’re probably right and it is something nefarious. But the IRS will use the same logic to flag a taxpayer, but that is not the evidence that will win them the case.

[u/Xphurrious → u/captainorganic07]

Right, and that level 1 should be banned

But if nobody is rmt'ing with that level one, you shouldn't ban whoever they give the gold to, just take the gold and move along

[u/doedskarp → u/Xphurrious]

you shouldn't ban whoever they give the gold to

They said they would, and they should.

[u/Niceromancer → u/Hrvatmilan2]

Look up the term money laundering and get back to us.