r/collapse • u/xorandor • Nov 17 '25
Economic China's unemployed Gen Z are proudly calling themselves 'rat people' and spending entire days in bed
https://fortune.com/2025/11/14/china-unemployed-gen-z-rat-people-rebelling-against-workplace-burnout/1.7k
u/onebadnightx Nov 17 '25
Young people all over the world are losing hope for a future. Hikikomori, NEET, lying flat, all the same phenomenon. Few good jobs available, people don’t feel they’ll ever be able to save up for a house or good life, they have no motivation to change and often there aren’t many resources available to help them. Leaders scapegoat them instead of offering any solutions. And it’ll only get worse.
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u/WrongThinkBadSpeak Nov 17 '25 edited Nov 17 '25
Honestly, I get it. Why play a rigged game? The best move is not to play at all if you have the means to opt out. None of this bullshit matters anyway.
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u/LightningSunflower Nov 17 '25
A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.
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u/RayHorizon Nov 17 '25
Thats because its rigged in parasites favor.
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u/djerk Nov 17 '25
As soon as you make any move to improve your situation some leech comes around and siphons all the profit and leaves you with nothing to show.
What’s the point?
This is speaking as not one of these Gen Z but as a millennial that got duped into working hard for decades, with almost no savings.
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u/mediocre_mitten Nov 22 '25
Gen Joneser here. The people of my generation (Gates, Jobs, Bezos, Nathaniel Borenstein, the list goes on: https://sh.reddit.com/r/GenX/comments/en7v8p/an_obnoxiously_long_list_of_famous_generation/ )helped create most of what is literally wrong with today's society: consumerism and FOMO and "Greed is GOOD" mentality.
So many of us (a LOT of us actually...not everyone is on that list, lol) are getting set to retire or have retired and have NO savings and will have to work until we die, even while collecting SS. A lot of people don't realize that once you hit 65 and qualify for medicade you still have to PAY (a couple hundo a month)that'll eat into your meager social security and leave you with even less. Couple that with a society that doesn't care if you live or die and takes away your snap benefits (because of welfare queens?) has no suitable housing options for seniors...Oh, and the gov't wants to take Social Security away. SO yeah, maybe us 60+ types should just bed-rot too.
I don't blame young folk. I don't blame old folk. I do blame a governmet that allowed corporate greed and concentrated wealth to run amok for far too long. Government that allowed ,no actually GAVE ungodly tax cuts to far too wealthy people (-those tax loopholes that allowed them to get away with NOT paying taxes wasn't enough, now the US actually gives them money BACK too?!)
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u/djerk Nov 22 '25
I agree except I do blame at least some of the old folk, specifically the ones that voted for Reagan and never questioned how bad a move that was and kept voting for austerity and tax cuts over and over.
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u/CassandraVonGonWrong Nov 17 '25
Nah. The real winning moves are to kick out the cheating players, ban them from playing, confiscate their pieces and cards, redistribute them and reset them game or, barring that, to set the whole board on fire.
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u/WrongThinkBadSpeak Nov 17 '25
If enough people don't play the board will set fire to itself anyway. Much less effort.
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u/iDeIete Nov 17 '25
Where is this from? I recall seeing it in a screenshot recently, seen someone else mention it in a comment, and now you lol
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u/LightningSunflower Nov 17 '25
It’s from the movie War Games, with Matthew Broderick. An 80s classic that explores the Cold War era logic of Mutually Assured Destruction. I think it holds up well and has some classic moments
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u/iDeIete Nov 17 '25
Sounds interesting just from the quote alone, definitely going to check it out!
Thanks 🤙🏼
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u/AlanaIsBananas Nov 17 '25
I don’t want to be homeless. I don’t want to play the game, but I don’t want to be homeless.
It’s as simple as that.
It’s like that for the majority. If you have the option to opt out of the game, good for you, you have a family that isn’t completely broke & broken.
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u/OatSoyLaMilk Nov 19 '25
Well the Chinese solution for that is public housing until they have a 90% home owner rate.
America's answer is to shame Gen Z for not being able to afford inflated house prices.
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u/theCaitiff Nov 17 '25
The best move is not to play at all if you have the means to opt out. None of this bullshit matters anyway.
And the truth is, it never did. I mean, man's search for meaning and purpose has never once lead to the conclusion "you should be standing in front of a cash register for ten hours every day."
That's not to say there aren't tasks that are essential, society owes far more than we will ever admit to trash collectors and janitors, but even those jobs are rarely if ever full of purpose and meaning in a philosophical sense.
Do what is necessary to see tomorrow and enjoy it. Beyond that, who cares.
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u/SomeRandomGuydotdot Nov 17 '25
"you should be standing in front of a cash register for ten hours every day."
Something that I always find oddly amusing about these lines of thought is that they entirely ignore that for all intents and purposes standing in front of cash register is far more common than learning from life's deep mysteries or w/e.
Part of the fucking scam is that the upper classes have tried to lay claim even to meaning, but have failed in even that.
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u/Graydyn Nov 17 '25
Thru don't have the means to opt out, they're mooching off their parents. That's not a long term solution. This is going to be another layer on top of the looming pension crisis.
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u/knight_ranger840 Nov 17 '25
If they time it right they can potentially mooch off till the eventual collapse of the system.
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Nov 17 '25
lying flat is the only way to beat a broken system lol
its a attrition warfare nothing more
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u/Z3r0sama2017 Nov 17 '25
Yep. If the ladder has been pulled up, stop propping the house up and let it topple
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u/One_red_boot Nov 17 '25
This is it right here. Why should they keep killing themselves trying to live a “normal life” when the olds have stolen everything from them, including their future.
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u/Slg407 Nov 17 '25
the olds? surely you mean the parasites who own the world, the 1% of the 1% , the shareholders
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u/blackcatwizard Nov 17 '25
There are not an insignificant number of boomers/old people who have multiple properties, are landlords, who are in upper management, and have absolutely zero clue about how difficult today's work/ability to live is for anyone but themselves. I would solidly lump them in that category.
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u/Felicity_Calculus Nov 17 '25
boomers/old people who have multiple properties, are landlords, who are in upper management
This is very true, but the whole point is that it was just easier in the past to accumulate money and property. It’s so drastically harder now because politicians, corporate overlords, and various billionaires are doing their best to rig the system. I don’t necessarily blame the boomers for having amassed assets when they had the opportunity to do so
and have absolutely zero clue about how difficult today's work/ability to live is for anyone but themselves
Yeah this is infuriating. It’s straight-up willful ignorance. I truly don’t understand how anyone with eyes/ears could not notice how nearly impossible it is financially for young people to get ahead and live a decent life
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u/cbloxham Nov 18 '25
It has not gone un-noticed. I don't speak for the rich, who live in their own world.
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u/SgtSillyWalks Nov 17 '25
I'm in this current situation. I worked at a dine in movie theater for 7 years before the Pandemic hit. I started as a dishwasher and climbed my way up the ladder into management. I made the mistake of giving all of my time and attention to that job, I missed birthdays and time with family on holidays because I was at work. Once the pandemic hit the company wasted no time and laid a lot of us off. 7 years of hard work gone to shit, not even a thank you. I've been doing odd jobs and door dash for the past 3 years my motivation to work at a company again is non-existent, I know I can't afford a house because I am barely making ends meet. Thankfully I still live with my parents else I'd be homeless but I'm guilty of spending days in my room and some I don't even want to leave bed. Why bother.. I tell myself, the game is clearly rigged, the days of working for a company and loyalty is over. Shit is depressing
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u/lazypandamang Nov 17 '25
I don't know you, but one day at a time fam. We didn't choose this rat race; but we can protect what little shreds of peace we have. Be kind to yourself. Your work ethic just needs the right environment. Which is something I don't think either one of us will find in the corporate/capitalist world. Big hugs from a stranger who also has a hard time getting out of bed some days.
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u/Z3r0sama2017 Nov 17 '25
People need to learn they owe companies nothing. They pay you, you do job, you go home. They want more? They need to pay more.
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u/CapnCanfield Nov 17 '25
They're not completely over, you just have to start looking at small companies or mom and pop shops. Anywhere where the owner actually works. Not a guarantee that the owner won't be a shithead, but you'll have way better chances at finding a decent place to work this way. I work at a small company and the owner actually care enough that he gave everybody a dollar raise during the pandemic because of the soaring gas prices and did it again last year when inflation got out of control. The owner is always at our big jobs working with everyone than buys lunch afterwards. And because our job is seasonal, he shells out a decent bonus at the end of the season to help you through the winter, so you have a bonus plus your unemployment. He also personally uses the same health plan everyone else in the company gets, so it's pretty decent.
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u/jackierandomson Nov 18 '25
Anywhere where the owner actually works. Not a guarantee that the owner won't be a shithead, but you'll have way better chances at finding a decent place to work this way.
Not a fucking chance. There's a reason the phrase "small business tyrant" exists. You have a much better chance being treated like shit by someone who owns the place you work at than you do a corporate place with policies. Corporate jobs see you as a piece in a machine, but small business owners more often than not see you as a slave.
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u/Gyirin Nov 17 '25
Funny thing is I think there's significant % of Gen Z who support the rich.
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u/TrickyProfit1369 Nov 18 '25
Its the most beaten down workers that think they will become a capitalist. Literally wasting their life for pennies and cheering for their own opression. No wonder we had kings and feudalism for thousands of years, its that peasant mindset.
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u/Awesam Nov 17 '25
Problem is that when the system breaks and gives an opportunity, those who have allowed themselves to atrophy will not be able to pick up the ball and run with it.
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u/MustardClementine Nov 21 '25
This all feels rooted in aging demographics, and it honestly makes me wonder what it is about boomers - across so many countries, across the world - that makes them so comfortable taking as much as they can from whoever they can, including future generations. Aging societies were always going to have some element of this, but there does seem to be something uniquely parasitic about how this generation has been willing to use up whatever they can and leave so little for anyone coming after.
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Nov 21 '25
Late reply, but here in the UK jobs vacancies just keep plummeting. There’s nearly 2 million unemployed working age people in the UK, yet only about 723,000 job vacancies. And that doesn’t count ghost job vacancy listings, mind you.
Us young people literally have no choice but to lay flat, especially if we’re disabled in some way. No employer is ever going to hire a disabled person over an ablebodied person, not in this type of climate.
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u/ladeepervert Nov 17 '25
I have become rat.
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u/WrongThinkBadSpeak Nov 17 '25
Sometimes it takes an event like that to snap people out of their loops and re-evaluate. The call of the hamster wheel is strong when you don't have time to think about why you do it.
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u/knight_ranger840 Nov 17 '25
I am surprised another pandemic hasn't hit us yet considering the fact that in a warming world old pathogens find new hosts by changing their distribution. Maybe we have to wait a few more years.
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u/pseudohim Nov 17 '25
H5N1 is on its way.
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u/UserBelowMeHasHerpes Nov 18 '25
Man its so hard to keep up with the series. I feel like they are constantly dropping new seasons of "Plague 2: Can We Just Die Already?" Everytime I turn my head. Tbh, really disappointed in the biological warfare division if that was the best the could cook up.
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u/Crisis_Averted Nov 17 '25
After the pandemic *started
you are still living in the pandemic, whether you know it or not.
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u/Felicity_Calculus Nov 17 '25
Not according to the the WHO (quote from Wikipedia): The World Health Organization (WHO) declared the outbreak [of Covid] a public health emergency of international concern (PHEIC) on 30 January 2020, and assessed it as having become a pandemic on 11 March.[3] The WHO declared the public health emergency caused by COVID-19 had ended in May 2023
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u/gallifrey_ Nov 17 '25
PHEIC and Pandemic are different terms with different definitions. Also from Wikipedia:
The disease has continued to circulate since 2023. As of 2024, experts were uncertain as to whether it still qualified as a pandemic.[11][12] Different definitions of pandemics lead to different determinations of when they end.[11][13]
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u/Felicity_Calculus Nov 19 '25
I simply wrote that the WHO considers the COVID pandemic to have ended (which is true 🤷🏻♀️). I definitely did not mean to imply that I (or the WHO, for that matter) think Covid is not still circulating, however. I just caught it for the second time a few months ago, ugh
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Nov 17 '25 edited Nov 17 '25
So I’ve been bedbound for a lot of my adult life and it was largely attributed to psychological and psychiatric illnesses (which I definitely don’t deny). I’ve always struggled with fatigue, brain fog, nervous system dysregulation, getting sick often, and social isolation.
You don’t realize how much brain power and energy it takes to initiate plans, maintain communication with multiple people across multiple threads and group chats across multiple apps, or even participating an IRL conversation in a public setting.
But after being sick with Covid a few times and the increased awareness of post-viral chronic illnesses like Long Covid, I realize that I’ve always had ME/CFS after a nasty cold during a pretty stressful time in my life. Something in my body snapped and I couldn’t handle the stress of normal life anymore. After almost a decade and a half of consistent symptoms that have worsened over time, I finally received the diagnosis.
I suspect this illness is severely underdiagnosed and if you walked into your doctor’s office, most doctors will not recognize this as a complex and chronic biological illness. They will run your standard blood tests and everything will look fine so you are fine on paper. Therefore, if you continue to complain about the symptoms, they will essentially say you’re a hypochondriac. It’s all in your head. Somatic symptom disorder. Functional neurological disorder.
So when I hear terms like quiet quitting, lying flat, celebrities with chronic Lyme, or people checking out of society especially in a country like China, that was ravaged by Covid, I wonder exactly how many people there are with this very real and biological illness. An illness we knew about for a hundred years but was downplayed and ignored by modern medicine. A medical system that ignores science.
Tens if not hundreds of millions of people unable to fully participate in society through work or socializing or even get on disability. What are the economic, social, and human costs especially as climate change worsens and social welfare erodes?
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u/Angel2121md Nov 17 '25
You have to get an MRI to tell if you have an illness like multiple sclerosis also. Many people have MS for many years with varied symptoms and don't even realize it until it gets bad. There are many other "invisible illnesses " that people may have and don't know it that can lead to severe fatigue. Severe fatigue is one main symptom of MS and I believe many other autoimmune disorders.
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Nov 17 '25
I have received an MRI and everything looked normal. At this point, I’d rather have any other diagnosis confirmed and results that point me in any direction.
I also find it notable that EBV is related to both MS and ME/CFS.
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u/Electrofox Nov 17 '25
I literally could have written this myself. I have the same exact symptoms you listed, the same exact life and lifestyle because of it and I too went many many years before I received my CFS diagnosis. Mine was definitely preceded by an EBV infection 20 years ago, I came down with mono and I was never the same after that. Catching COVID made it so much worse.
I often wish I had the ability to just leave the house on a whim like healthy people do. The ability to just go to the grocery store, run some errands, maybe go out for a bite to eat. These are gargantuan tasks for me. I just can't plan things, because the severity of this illness can flare immensely on any given day.
Anyways, just wanted to agree with you that this is probably way more likely than people think. I hope you're hanging in there.
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Nov 18 '25
Thanks man, this is the literally one of the worst illnesses in the world to live with. Hope you’re hanging in there as well.
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u/CurrentBias Nov 17 '25
After the pandemic emergency measures, you mean. The WHO considers the pandemic ongoing, since transmission is both global and lacks predicability (same reasons HIV is still pandemic)
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u/misbehavingwolf Nov 17 '25
Pandemic or endemic?
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u/CurrentBias Nov 17 '25
Pandemic. Endemic implies predictability. SARS-CoV-2 spreads year-round at unpredictable intervals
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u/The_Jitterati Nov 17 '25
I love how the article misses the point by offering advice on how people in this situation can insert themselves back into the system they’re rejecting.
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u/HomoExtinctisus Nov 17 '25
With a name like fortune.com, it is like an appendage of the System itself. Sort of a noodly appendage.
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u/xorandor Nov 17 '25
China’s Gen Z’s rat people 🐀phenomenon aptly describes what lots of people are feeling, that goes beyond Gen Z. I know people that are Gen X and millennials that fell into this life pattern for periods of time. Widespread depressive life patterns are perhaps the body/mind’s coping strategy to deal with what has become this overly abstract, machine society.
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u/Lovelitchi_in_pink Nov 17 '25 edited Nov 17 '25
yeah, because I mean, what’s the point? overexert yourself working all the time, commuting, etc leaving you exhausted and with no time to actually enjoy life, and for what? just to buy shit you don’t even need? our basic needs are food, shelter and community. we are being priced out of the first two, and so many people do not have a real community. our entire society needs a reset.
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u/AdCool1638 Nov 18 '25
when US and China, largest two economies on Earth, are struggling to get young people to launch in life, you know the future of global economy and human civilization is very doomed.
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u/Who_watches Nov 17 '25
If they want to replace us with robots what else are we to do with our time
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u/Elrox Nov 17 '25
So many things! I don't work because I want to, I work because I have to. Time isn't the issue, money is. More to the point, greed is the actual problem.
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u/ghostsofafuturelost Nov 17 '25
I'll be honest I'm 37 years old and do this now. I've been unemployed for the last almost 3 years, can't find work, any job I can do is some meaningless underpaid retail job, I've given up all hope and just bed rot all day. I honestly look forward to the day I die at this point.
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u/Embarrassed-Run-9120 Nov 17 '25
How can you afford not to work?
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u/ghostsofafuturelost Nov 17 '25
I live with family. I practically live like a ghost. I don't ask anyone for anything, I keep to my room. If I need anything I buy it myself by doing side hustles. I've sold pretty much everything I've owned over the years as well, collectibles and things.
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u/fish312 Nov 18 '25
But food?
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u/ghostsofafuturelost Nov 18 '25
I eat whatever family buys or cooks. For the most part, I eat sandwiches with chips and cup ramen.
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u/MammothAdeptness2211 Nov 17 '25
A different generation, a different country and I find myself doing the same thing. I get up for therapy and medical appointments, thank the gods I still have access to good medical care and a nice place to live for the time being.
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u/midgaze Nov 17 '25
Capitalism, through magic math, already sold their productivity for the next 30 years and allocated the proceeds to the wealthy, who get to spend it now.
Except that infinite growth was always a fantasy, and capitalism has no wisdom.
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u/Z3r0sama2017 Nov 17 '25
It's nuts. Throughout history their are gigantic examples of currency debasement and debt spirals, as doomed Empires struggle to remain relevant. Rome, Spain and Britain to name a few, always plays out the same way.
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u/breaducate Nov 17 '25
In a world that wants you to spend your minutes making rich people richer, spending your minutes on yourself is an act of defiance.
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Nov 17 '25
Instead of seeing these trends becoming more common all around the world, just in different forms and under different names. Working class people of the world should fucking unite and create a worldwide revolution of such proportion, it would be the most glorious, defining moment in civilisation’s social history! I actually think it needs to be done…
I’ll start it, who’s with me!?
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u/knight_ranger840 Nov 17 '25
I think they have done a pretty good job at dividing us not gonna lie. Complete individualization of society.
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u/yeperoonie Nov 17 '25
Within the US alone, we have people who chose to vote for a party due to the harm it would inflict on a group of people. We can't even get along to a degree where we leave each other alone. It's impossible to get humanity to work together on such a large scale. Period.
There will always be people who lick the boot of billionaires hoping they can catch pennies in their mouth. There will always be people who claim covid is a hoax as they die in the hospital. There will always be people who think the earth is flat no matter what evidence is provided to them. We are a stupid, self-centered, short-sighted species that will never work together on such a large scale, no matter what we could gain or lose.
Your idea is beautiful and unfortunately naive. As a species, we're too divided and unempathetic to one another to make such a large movement work. I wish it could work! So damn bad. But everything I see in humanity as a species tells me all I need to know. There are wonderful, intelligent, and caring people, but their efforts are crushed by greed and corporations time and time again.
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u/NotAllOwled Nov 17 '25
the world wasn't for me
Same same, but I was a lot older than it sounds as though you are now when I finally came to accept that'll probably never change, so ... congrats on the efficiency, I guess!
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u/superserter1 Nov 17 '25
you’re on your way to being an excellent buddhist
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Nov 17 '25
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u/MelancholyMushroom Nov 17 '25
Have you tried Ligotti and Emil Cioran? They speak to where I am at this point in life, so thought I’d name drop.
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Nov 17 '25
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u/MelancholyMushroom Nov 17 '25
I’m sad he doesn’t have more manifesto style stuff, too.
True Detective never pulled me in so I’m not sure what you’re referencing.. did his work inspire the tone of the show?
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Nov 17 '25
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u/knight_ranger840 Nov 17 '25
Yeah but the main character never felt that pessimistic or defeatist to me. He definitely has some optimism especially towards the end.
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u/AstronautLife5949 Nov 18 '25
Oh, you HAVE read it. Ligottti responded to an email I sent once, I was shocked. Love that someone fully gets us.
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u/AstronautLife5949 Nov 18 '25
I'd like to be friends with both of you. Early pioneer of the antinatalist movement here.
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u/AstronautLife5949 Nov 18 '25
Hello, fellow antinatalist. Have you read Conspiracy Against the Human Race?
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Nov 18 '25
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u/AstronautLife5949 Nov 18 '25
There's an audiobook too. I break it out when I start believing anything matters and that existence isn't MALIGNANTLY USELESS.
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u/GroupCurious5679 Nov 17 '25
Love this. I'm gonna make this my new mantra. And I'll tell my adult kids the same too. Thank you.
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Nov 17 '25
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u/GroupCurious5679 Nov 17 '25
Thank you for saying that. I get so upset at parents who put pressure on their kids. My attitude is, it wasn't their choice to be born, so I'm gonna do my best to make sure they are as happy as possible in this horrible world. They're both late 20s and live at home too. They're not in relationships either, (and my daughter is also a lesbian.) My parents threw me out at 18, I was miserable as hell and I'd never want my kids to feel that way. We all just try and live in our little bubble. Try and do what makes you happy, be it gaming or music, I wish you all the best.
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u/DeleteriousDiploid Nov 17 '25
I'd recommend gardening and growing food if you have access to land. It's vastly more rewarding and depression beating that any of the nonsense society wants you to do.
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Nov 18 '25
It's really trippy to be told you have to be at a specific address, on time, and hard working as possible when at least one of the following is extremely likely -
Climate collapse in 20 years
Robots doing every job in 20 years
A recession within 5 years will derail your resume regardless
The jobs available right now don't even pay you enough to live independently.
The existential mismatch today between jobs and the real world is a peculiar absurdism.
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u/boyish_identity Nov 17 '25
yes same, in a sense. you may find joy in life with simple / cheap stuff.
in most circumstances, every time you work for a job, it is inefficient because your work does not sufficient pay off. in that sense, you contribute to this sick system. so, if you can, work as least as you can - try to live a simple life, filled with meaningful relationships/friends and passions, than to be blinded by luxury / materialism
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u/K1llrzzZ Nov 17 '25
Based, neets will inherit the earth
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u/Ok_Lunch1400 Nov 18 '25
I think it's the other way around, after the psychopaths in a charge decide forcing us to kill each other in another WW is a sacrifice they're willing to make.
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u/K1llrzzZ Nov 18 '25
Cant force me to do shit, wanna go to war mr politican? Sure, you and your kids are in the front lines. Oh wait you yourself dont want to fight? And you wouldn't send your own kids either? Then why the fuck would I go? Because you said so? Fuck off
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Nov 17 '25
I did this yesterday. Wasn’t even conscious of it. Just slept all day half listening to podcasts. Just been so tired all the time recently.
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u/HinduGodOfMemes Nov 17 '25
Why is western media obsessed with these kinds of stories
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u/Neoliberal_Nightmare Nov 17 '25
Take everything western about China with a gigantic grain of salt.
For what it's worth I teach high school in China, they're far more optimistic and eager than western kids. I'd say the main difference is that if they don't get their ideal career they at least know they won't starve to death or be homeless because wages are livable.
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u/toastedzergling Nov 17 '25
While USA is deplorable, I don't know that China exactly has strong social safety nets either
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u/Neoliberal_Nightmare Nov 17 '25
See that's the issue with your thinking. Safety nets. Why? That means creating a bad economy and then creating a safety net for the inevitable poor people of that bad economy.
How about make an economy which isn't broken to begin with, and then you don't need a safety net. In china's case, they don't need a safety net of welfare etc because the wages are livable, rent is very cheap, food is cheap, entertainment is cheap.
China obviously has economic issues, but they're really on the macro scale more than Micro. In the US it's the opposite, on the macro scale "line goes up" and the rulers are happy but the micro situation is bad for ordinary people.
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u/myinternets Nov 17 '25
Amazing that China doesn't have disabled people or anyone too sick to work. What a utopia!
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u/DeleteriousDiploid Nov 17 '25
The videos of old people ripping out iron bollards, wiring and fighting over cardboard boxes says otherwise. In other countries those people would be retired and living on a pension after a life of working but in China the only way they have found to survive is recycling scrap or just straight up stealing metal.
Or the recent video of day labourers waiting around early in the morning in the hope of getting picked up for construction site work. When asked they say they're 59 so people will hire them but clearly many are long past 60.
Or the video of police beating up people in wheelchairs. That only happened because due to the lack of any social safety nets the disabled people were out performing music to try and make money.
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Nov 17 '25 edited Nov 17 '25
This is so funny when you realize this happens in america all the time. Crack heads doing crazy shit. Most of the houses built with toothpicks and bubblegum.
Police beating disabled people (hey ig bullied kids end up police everywhere). But yeah china = bad
Again, we have all this worse, but without infrastructure and indenturing our youth when they go college. ( and shit healthcare, childcare, work programs, etc etc)
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u/DeleteriousDiploid Nov 17 '25
So your counterargument is just whataboutism?
You understand that America and China can both be bad right? Criticising China does not mean praising America and vice versa.
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Nov 17 '25
Not a counter-argument, I was commenting about the same thing but in America. Most people understand China has problems, but many fall into the trap of ignoring the positives.
I just want what they have in terms of infrastructure, healthcare, childcare, and education. Im pointing out that we have the same problems and can achieve these things. (At least if capitalism was truly the better economic system)
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u/SimpleAsEndOf Nov 19 '25
I agree.
His argument will evolve into....
cherry picking, stereotyping, dog whistling, racial profiling, Sinophobia, false narratives, shifting goalposts, false accusations, humiliation, demonisation etc.
It's from the process of Fascist Othering (from Hitler's Mein Kampf).
He's not interested in the truth. He's here to spread propaganda.
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u/CardioHypothermia Nov 17 '25
Have you ever considered that only rich kids go to the school that you teach in?
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u/Neoliberal_Nightmare Nov 17 '25
I've taught public school too.
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u/Ashamed_Task_4985 Nov 17 '25
what you know isn't all.most students in china never see any foreigner
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u/jjmoreta Nov 17 '25
Every generation likes to gripe about the youngest generations as being lazy and rude and ignoring tradition.
Evidence exists back to ancient Greece that I've seen.
I'm sure there's a cuneiform tablet out there talking about how Ea Nasir was rude to his elders and didn't want to work before he became a copper merchant. ;)
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u/PyrocumulusLightning Nov 17 '25
I love it that people became literate possibly solely so that they could leave negative reviews.
It would be hilarious if there are lost plays by Sophocles that we only know about because they were panned in the tabl
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u/imminentjogger5 Accel Saga Nov 17 '25
because it makes things at home seem much better when you don't have to look at a mirror
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u/OpheliaLives7 Nov 17 '25
I wonder how much crossover there is between goblincore people and rat people?
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u/mikemaca Nov 17 '25
Hm, technically sloths not rats.
But it's funny how they competitively try to one-up each other:
For many of the “rat people” commenting on her videos, her lethargic schedule is still too fast-paced. “You’re still too high-energy for me,” one person wrote. “I don’t even sit on the sofa. I lie on the bed from the time I wake up and go to the toilet until I have to eat, then I get up to eat and then lie back down. I can live like this for a week without going out.”
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u/waba99 Nov 17 '25
Millennials are killing everything! Gen Z are RAT people!!!
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u/Z3r0sama2017 Nov 17 '25
"Why won't they just work themselves to death and prop up our social security till we die?! So ungrateful!"
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u/Embarrassed-Run-9120 Nov 17 '25
Why no one is talking about how people can afford stay at home instead of working 9-5? That's my dream.
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u/knight_ranger840 Nov 17 '25
It is possible in third world countries if you belong to an upper middle class family.
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u/notoriousbsr Nov 17 '25
I get it but Ialso don't understand the logistics of who pays for housing and food or very basic necessities to be a rat person. I'd be evicted and starve. I'm being genuine with the question: who pays for the roof and food if one drops out?
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Nov 17 '25
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u/notoriousbsr Nov 17 '25
That was my only assumption, thank you for not assuming I was being disingenuous. I've not had parents or family for very many years, they all died young, so I've only heard of familial benevolence, tbh. My father would've said "so you want me to work twice as hard...". I'm glad people have good family
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u/Fastidious_Farter Nov 17 '25
I'm gen X and I only leave my home for work these days, and even that's just one day a week. Everything outside is expensive and shit, so I don't bother.
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u/KittyDomoNacionales Nov 17 '25
Yeah I get this. I moved to another country with extensive work history. Here I have been looking for work for months with just sketchy places answering. It’s really disheartening.
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u/JevCor Nov 18 '25
Basically how I live. I'll rot here till death takes me or the world ends, whichever is first.
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u/ReasonablePossum_ Nov 17 '25
Yet, 70% of them were able to afford housing..... Western propaganda being brrrrrrr
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u/Z3r0sama2017 Nov 17 '25
I guess Chinese 'over building' had it's plus points if it meant even 'rats' could afford somewhere to live.
Almost as it wasn't over building at all and just enough to stop prices 🚀🚀🚀
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Nov 17 '25
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u/ReasonablePossum_ Nov 17 '25
Not falling for propaganda doomerism that tries to bash China for anything isn´t being a fanboy.
"China has X good! B U T A T W H A T P R I C E ?????????!!!"
"China achieved Y! B U T A T W H A T P R I C E ?????????!!!"
"China has low prices! H O W IS T H A T A P RO B L E M?????"
"China #1 worldwide in renewables and carbon cut per capita! B U T A T W H A T P R I C E ?????????!!!"
"China leading with gas-vehicle free cities! H O W A COL LAPSING I N D U S T RY IS PLACING BEIJING AT T H E EDGE!!!"lmao
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u/DeleteriousDiploid Nov 17 '25
Maybe let's look at this critically rather than just parroting stuff back?
The claim that 70% of Chinese millennials own their own home comes from this HSBC study in 2017:
It is 3 pages long and does not list any method as to how they surveyed people. ie. did they phone home numbers, send out mailers or ask people in the street? It does however tell us this:
China survey sample includes 85% urban, 14% suburban and 1% rural respondents
In 2017 the urban population was 843.43 million vs 556.58 million in rural areas. So you cannot say it represents 70% of the population. None of the other countries on the list have an asterisk next to them like this.
So we know they surveyed people in cities meaning most of these people lived in apartments. This significantly impacts their ability to resell since the land lease will be held by the property developer for at most 70 years. It is not uncommon for them to demolish and rebuild highrises. Unfortunately also not uncommon for developers to build and sell apartments even if they only have a few years left on the land lease. This is without getting into all the construction issues that result in crumbling and collapsing buildings.
Whereas if you look at other countries surveyed like France and the UK some of those people will own houses and will be able to sell them or pass them on to children.
In any case a lot has changed in the last 8 years.
Since 2017 the housing market in China has suffered significantly due to the collapse of Evergrande. Youth unemployment figures hit their highest levels and then the government just stopped publishing them. The lie flat, let it rot and rat tribe people trends amongst the youth reflect these issues. As do the numerous videos showing how many people are sleeping on the streets these days.
But yes keep on quoting vague flawed statistics from almost a decade ago that you saw on social media and didn't bother fact checking whilst dismissing anything you disagree with as western propaganda...
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Nov 17 '25 edited Nov 17 '25
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u/DeleteriousDiploid Nov 17 '25
Thanks, not surprising. Unfortunately since the UK brought in the age restriction nonsense I cannot see user's post histories if they have anything NSFW on it so I didn't bother bypassing it to check.
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u/ReasonablePossum_ Nov 17 '25
But lets agree with random doomer articles about lazy genz without any ground whatsoever lmao, sure
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u/DeleteriousDiploid Nov 17 '25
I have seen the videos from Chinese social media. There are people sleeping besides literal mounds of empty noodle containers and tissues. It's horrifying how much they have just given up on life.
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u/ReasonablePossum_ Nov 17 '25
I´m pretty sure you can find social media videos on any pothead anywhere in the world living in their parent´s basement and gooning to OF videos.
Does that tells you anything about the countries? Nothing other than someone has some morbid interest in gooning losers in basements.
Go check the thousands of travelers, expats, video blogging from China from random places, make your own opinion instead of living in a short/reel propaganda bubble.
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u/OatSoyLaMilk Nov 19 '25
"Hmmm... We couldn't get anywhere when we pretended Mexican Gen Z is rebelling against Claudia Sheinbaum since most of the rioters we could manage were old Mexican conservatives. Fuck it, let's just say Chinese Gen Z is feeling lethargic."
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u/postconsumerwat Nov 17 '25
I definitely went through a similar thing in 2000s... would probably be in better shape now if I was not so demotivated by society
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u/StatementBot Nov 17 '25
This post links to another subreddit. Users who are not already subscribed to that subreddit should not participate with comments and up/downvotes, or otherwise harass or interfere with their discussions (brigading)
The following submission statement was provided by /u/xorandor:
China’s Gen Z’s rat people 🐀phenomenon aptly describes what lots of people are feeling, that goes beyond Gen Z. I know people that are Gen X and millennials that fell into this life pattern for periods of time. Widespread depressive life patterns are perhaps the body/mind’s coping strategy to deal with what has become this overly abstract, machine society.
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1oz6bsu/chinas_unemployed_gen_z_are_proudly_calling/np9hls8/