as an AFAB nb, i feel similarly. but also i have seen AMAB NBs be treated even worse than AFAB NBs in queer spaces, which is trash. i thought "theyfab" was bad but no some queer spaces legit come up with borderline conspiracy thinking to justify their hatred of AMABs and say they're fakers who just want to feel included or infiltrate queer spaces.
This is why I don't feel comfortable in queer spaces as a cishet guy in general - I'm not a dick, I'm not trying to pretend i'm any more queer than "what's in your pants isn't a dealbreaker" or be part of "the group" or anything, but it really feels like just being there would somehow detract from the purpose of that space.
Like there are spaces that are queer-friendly and there are queer spaces, and in an ideal world that venn diagram would be a circle but right now those are two different things
and in an ideal world that venn diagram would be a circle
I don't think that's true at all. Maybe you mean concentric circles? Queer spaces are a sub-set of queer-friendly spaces, but all places should be queer-friendly spaces.
I think you're agreeing with me and making what is a valid technical clarification, but I'm also saying there shouldn't even been a need for that distinction because nobody should be put in a position to feel a need to have ANY kind of exclusionary space. Part of the problem is that all spaces are assumed to be "straight spaces" and there's a need to indicate being queer-friendly at all, because not being queer friendly is common enough that there is a need to mark a space as friendly.
Again, that's wholly idealistic and not something that's realistic given gestures broadly, and this is getting more philosophical than the original intent of "some people suck and ruin things for others, and I wish it weren't that way"
nobody should be put in a position to feel a need to have ANY kind of exclusionary space.
I feel like that is both unrealistic, and untrue. There is some value in having a shared space where everyone is on the same page and has shared experiences. It's just that the size of those circles contained in the bigger one should be tiny. The majority of the world should be welcome to everyone, but having a juggler's club or something isn't inherently bad.
Yeah but having a hobbyist club is about enthusiasm for a subject and not because talking about juggling in public is something that's potentially unsafe.
Nothing about being "queer" should be a reason for being ostracized, judged, or excluded in any way, and I don't think that's equivalent to finding people who share an interest.
Again, "realistic" in current society is not the same as ideal, and I recognize that. There shouldn't be a need for queer spaces because queer people shouldn't feel that they can only be themselves in specific places/situations
I agree with you that queer people should be able to be themselves everywhere. My point was just that even in that world, it would still be okay to have queer-only spaces. Just like it's ok to have women only spaces, men only spaces, etc. As long as those things are small, and not intended to be exclusionary (like every coffee shop is suddenly a "men only" space). I do think those things would feel far less necessary in a world where huge swaths of people weren't being oppressed for who they are, but I don't think they need to disappear entirely. I'm open to the idea that I'm wrong though. It's hard to fully predict how I would feel in a world where 30-50% of the population weren't just massive dicks.
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u/alicelestial Jul 31 '26
as an AFAB nb, i feel similarly. but also i have seen AMAB NBs be treated even worse than AFAB NBs in queer spaces, which is trash. i thought "theyfab" was bad but no some queer spaces legit come up with borderline conspiracy thinking to justify their hatred of AMABs and say they're fakers who just want to feel included or infiltrate queer spaces.