r/comics • u/TommySiegel • 20d ago

OC Star Wars vs Star Trek: a helpful guide [OC]

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Star Trek 2009? Fun! The Force Awakens? Fun! And yet…

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u/Ikrit122 20d ago

You can start with the first season of TNG, but it's more just a list of episodes to watch rather than the whole season...

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u/Globularist 20d ago

Yeah but tng isn't the first season.

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u/PupPop 20d ago

Bingo, I believe this is what they mean.

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u/Ikrit122 20d ago

That's fair.

You can definitely start with the first season of TOS. It's all over the place, but there are some real classics in there.

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u/Take-to-the-highways 20d ago

Tos is amazing and I'll personally fight anyone who thinks you can skip it. A lot of the episodes are more relevant now than ever, unfortunately

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u/LootMyBody 19d ago

As someone who had never watched any star trek until a year or two ago, those first seasons are amazing. Thoughtful storylines, and the lighting and sets are awesome. It made me notice how little color is on tv nowadays.

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u/OddBuy8266 19d ago

Which series?

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u/LootMyBody 19d ago

I have only watched the original series with Shatner. I haven't gotten to the newer stuff yet.

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u/[deleted] 19d ago

[deleted]

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u/buffysbangs 19d ago

I go in phases. For a long time TNG was my favorite. Then DS9 was my favorite. Now I am completely hooked on Enterprise. So many great series. There are a few I dislike, too. But I’m not here to start any arguments :)

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u/Ikrit122 20d ago

I watched through it in college 15 years ago and enjoyed it. I grew up with random TNG/Voyager episodes and the TOS movies. I don't know if I would describe it as amazing, but it is absolutely worth watching. I think TNG is more watchable for a first timer, however.

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u/lilbigchole 20d ago

people say to start with tng because it's more modern, but i think at this point they're both old enough that they feel like they're from a totally different era of tv

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u/blahblah19999 19d ago

TOS, they were winging it on every episode. They didn't care about continuity at all, they were rewriting it as they were shooting it . they just wanted to make their point.

TNG, it was much more professional from the get-go.

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u/Ciusblade 20d ago

i personally wouldn't skip it, but I'd probably not start with it either. its in my top 3 for sure though

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u/RareAnxiety2 19d ago

I skipped it at first, had to watch tng first to build a tolerance of star treks writing style

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u/Take-to-the-highways 19d ago

I can understand that. I like old movies, and I'd never delved into sci-fi much before tos so I was already accustomed to the old stageplay style of writing and acting.

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u/TrippyTriangle 20d ago

call it technology induced ADHD, but the pacing of TOS makes it a slog to get through, even the diamonds in the rough are too slow, it's skippable especially with how much good trek there is with TNG/Voy/DS9.

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u/nikola_tesler 20d ago

I think it’s best appreciated after some of the better series. start with TNG, watch the others, once you’re in love with it TOS hits harder.

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u/numberonebuddy 20d ago

Nah it's totally great on its own, it's so campy and cheesy, so silly and so good.

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u/nikola_tesler 20d ago

I’m just thinking of normies tbh

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u/Naouak 20d ago

I did that. I (re)watched TNG/DS9/Voyager then decided to watch TOS before ENT and it definitely made it easier to get into. There's some great episodes but also some really bad ones by today standard especially in the beginning. I'm in the middle of the second season now and the quality has been more consistent now.

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u/[deleted] 20d ago

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u/Ikrit122 20d ago

Woah, that's a controversial opinion for sure! I'd love to hear your reasoning for that.

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u/ChadtheWad 19d ago

Controversial now, lol. Community's shifted a lot since the folks who grew up with Trek now grew up mostly on TNG rather than TOS.

Nonetheless, sort of have to agree here having watched both. TNG is interesting because while it's written in an era that is much more egalitarian (there are far too many sexist tropes in TOS) ironically TNG often operated on moral absolutes while TOS tended to favor moral ambiguity. That ultimately led portrayals of "other's" to sometimes feel skin-deep, which is why you get stuff like Worf constantly being denied over and over again for being too rash or violent like the Klingons, the Ferengi are too greedy and capitalistic, the Borg are just plain bad guys, the Cardassians who are genociders and the Bajorans are often portrayed as being too eager for revenge. Even the Q, who are a race of near-omniscient beings, always end up in the moral wrong when dealing with the Enterprise. Meanwhile in TOS, some of the best episodes are where the crew, Kirk and even the audience doubt Kirk's actions. Their crew regularly runs into situations where they seem to be in the moral right (like with the Gorn) but realize their own shortcomings. They're also constantly running into more advanced races that challenge their moral superiority (such as in "Errand of Mercy"). From my perspective at least, that difference made TNG largely more shallow than TOS on the subject matter.

Not saying I hate TNG or anything, I enjoyed both. The lowest lows of TOS were also much worse than TNG by far.

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u/[deleted] 20d ago

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u/Ikrit122 20d ago

You call TNG cheesy but not TOS? I wonder how much you actually watched, since Season 1 of TNG feels very much like TOS (without the great episodes).

And hell, half the fun of Lower Decks is all the references to older Trek. I can't imagine watching it without having some sort of experience with TNG, DS9, and VOY.

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u/Benromaniac 20d ago

Except that Picard is in the comic. Not Pike/Kirk.

Anyway, Ed Mercer is the best Captain.

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u/Hard_To_Port 20d ago

"And I would've gotten away with it too, if it weren't for those divorcees and their twenty-something super strength adoptive daughter!" 

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u/Aggravating-Kale7762 20d ago

It’s unfortunate that the writers didn’t have the sense to maintain a chronological order. I’ve never sat and recorded the states but i don’t believe TNG or the OG series episodes were in chronological order by state. Am I wrong?

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u/Globularist 19d ago

What do you mean by "by state"?

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u/mathazar 19d ago

TNG had many events and themes that happened chronologically and were referenced or expanded in later episodes. Most episodes were a single self-contained story, not serialized, but  I still think it's best watched chronologically.

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u/AzraelleWormser 20d ago

That's not what "season" means.

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u/Made_Bail 20d ago

TNG is one of my favorite shows of all time, but there's no getting around the fact that it had some truly putrid episodes. Just so bad.

Anything with Luwaxana.

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u/Far-Heart-7134 20d ago

She works best on ds9 when she gets paired with Odo. They have some really touching scenes together.

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u/JMoc1 20d ago

She’s also great in her final appearance in TNG.

The grief she had at losing her other daughter hits me as a father with two little ones.

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u/GitEmSteveDave 20d ago

And gave a start to Kirsten Dunst!

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u/Made_Bail 20d ago

DS9! was better than TNG is just about every way, but it's not remembered as fondly be the general fandom for some reason.

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u/creatingKing113 20d ago

I agree that DS9 is the best. But it needs TNG to be good. TNG gives us the high minded idealism that DS9 uses to frame its difficult questions.

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u/Made_Bail 20d ago

Great point. Especially Sisko's moral quandaries as the war goes on.

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u/NegativeBee8049 20d ago

Sisko is not Picard, but they share the same Starfleet values.

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u/bumchester 20d ago

A point Q learned the hard way.

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u/ggg730 19d ago

Oh, you're a god. People call me that too sometimes. -Benjamin "the thong song" Sisko.

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u/mistalasse 20d ago

Yea cuz chemical warfare to destroy an entire planet is exactly what Picard would have done /s

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u/Penta_Says 20d ago

YOU BETRAYED YOUR UNIFORM!

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u/Maverick916 20d ago

Its easy to be a saint in paradise

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u/118772 20d ago

In the Pale Moonlight was the chef's kiss of DS9.

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u/wvj 20d ago

It's a fake! My personal fave too.

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u/118772 20d ago

And all it cost was the life of one Romulan senator, one criminal, and the self-respect of one Starfleet officer.

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u/GrandSquanchRum 20d ago

A small price to pay for the safety of the quadrant. So I will learn to live with it... because I can live with it. I can live with it.

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u/cultvignette 20d ago

(and two Romulan security detail officers)

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u/2th 20d ago

I CAN live with it.

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u/PupPop 20d ago

We also must consider that without the standards set by TNG we would not have just comparison for why DS9 breaks so many of the "classic" Star Trek rules. There is much more violence, deceit, more morally gray situations, and overall deviation from the idealism we often see in TNG. But without TNG as the trailblazer for those concepts, DS9 simply would not be nearly as effective.

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u/Red_Dox 20d ago

I mean, at the time they were setting DS9 off against B5. And B5 had certainly more violence, deceit, more morally gray situations, and overall deviation from the idealism then Star Trek.

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u/daemon-electricity 20d ago

We basically have Gene Roddenberry's death to thank for that. He had far too idealistic of a view of the future (and balding) and that definitely held Star Trek back.

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u/Velp__ 20d ago

definitely held Star Trek back

I don't agree with that at all. Star trek is a show of hope for the future. What we could be. Star Trek shouldn't ever be any darker than DS9.

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u/Allegorist 20d ago edited 20d ago

And neither of these would function without the framework set forth by the original series. Both the meta/narrative structure and templates, and much of the world-building such as the international (interplanetary? Inter-species?) relations/history, the bureaucracy, the structure and relationships of the ships/crew, many of the core science fiction axioms (warp drives/numbers, transporters, phasers, etc.), and much more.

TNG certainly polished the rough edges and fleshed it out, but people who watched it first don't seem to give enough credit to the original series for what it contributed to making the franchise what it is. All of that material was spun up from scratch the first time, in the sixties no less. We didn't even land on the moon until 1969, and that was in a tin can with 4kb of RAM. Exoplanets weren't even confirmed until the 90's.

It was wildly innovative for the time. So many future common tropes that later generations take for granted were pioneered (or at least popularized) by the original series. When comparing them across such a large time span, perspective needs to be centered on the time they were released, rather than holding it to standards as if each were released today.

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u/Far-Heart-7134 20d ago

Tng has the writers working out a lot of major plot points of Ds9 like the Cardasians, Bajorians, the federation colonies on the cardasian border. Even Miles' prejudice.

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u/daemon-electricity 20d ago

They could've fixed so much that was wrong with TNG by setting the stage for DS9 and Voyager after Picard is no longer a borg. They could've kept doing the Borg stuff, but the Cardassian and Bajoran civil war and the Cardassians becoming a federation member to get leverage against interference is a much more interesting direction. Also, some Maquis stuff thrown in for good measure.

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u/PM_NUDES_4_DEGRADING 20d ago

I also agree that DS9 is the best. But realistically, DS9 without TNG is just Babylon 5, and B5 is very easily on the same level of DS9. In fact, despite loving DS9 very much, I personally still like B5 more. The first season is rough, especially on a first watch where you won't notice all the vital groundwork and foreshadowing it's doing for everything that comes later, but it's a fantastic show overall.

I'd also argue that it was more optimistic in its own way without the idealism of TNG to frame it. Because the characters were struggling to create paradise, rather than leaving paradise to defend it. And, because it wasn't part of a legacy franchise that needed to maintain some semblance of the status quo, it also allowed much more freedom to radically change the world in a way that DS9 wasn't allowed to have.

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u/clunkclunk 20d ago

TNG's world building let DS9 live in that world.

And Gilligan's Island let Voyager S1 and 2 exist.

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u/FiliDestro 20d ago

DS9 is the only star trek show I've watched and I think it stands up well on it's own

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u/Absurd_Boulder 20d ago

I dunno, I had no working knowledge of Star Trek, but as a kid watched DS9 reruns every night as a kid and loved it

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u/wvj 20d ago

It was a way ahead of its time show, in ways people don't tend to grasp if they just go on memory and don't rewatch. I did a total rewatch of all the shows during Covid (Trek was still on Netflix! what a time) and it really struck me.

Like, the whole thing is a Native American/Holocaust parable, the villain is a tremendously charismatic serial rapist and probably one of the most accurate depictions of fascism up-close on television, there's a gay romance and a transgender pansexual alien in the main cast, and an episode about the police killing black people.

In the 1990s.

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u/LikeALincolnLog42 20d ago

DS9 was better than TNG and just about every way

Is it though? I think they’re simply two different things.

DS9 was a serial sci-fi politics TV show with wars, espionage, intrigue etc that occasionally touched on the lighter or episodic type stuff you’d find more in TNG.

On the other hand, TNG was an idealist sci-fi adventure-of-the-week show that occasionally touched on some of the heavier subject matter that was found more in DS9.

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u/daemon-electricity 20d ago

DS9 had more commitment to a central plot line than TNG. Love TNG, but that alone made DS9 better. It cut down the number of filler episodes and seemed to commit each episode to building on the conflicts that were going on. TNG needed AI run amok and a Loki to keep it busy and there are WAAAAY too many filler episodes.

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u/LikeALincolnLog42 20d ago

Personally, I generally prefer episodic TV more than serial narrative so I think that’s why I like TNG more.

That’s also why I think I wouldn’t feel comfortable saying one is better than the other. I think that’d be like comparing apples and oranges: they’re two different types of shows.

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u/ApprehensiveSoup2214 20d ago

"DS9 had more commitment to a central plot line than TNG. Love TNG, but that alone made DS9 better." Its funny because that difference is exactly why I like TNG better.

To me, even with how good DS9 is, Star Trek is better as bottle episodes, and frankly I think DS9 is the reason Nutrek sucks (they completely shifted from bottle episodes to over arching multi season plots, which, like I said, is not where Trek is strongest).

Also, DS9 is just worse Battlestar Gallactica if one really wants a space based, war driven, political "nitty gritty" type show.

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u/Made_Bail 20d ago

You're not wrong. I think the major difference maker for me is that TNG had so many forgettable or downright bad episodes, whereas DS9 was incredibly solid almost all the way through, barring some early missteps.

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u/HighSeverityImpact 19d ago

Where I lived, DS9 was aired syndicated rather than on a dedicated network. Because of that, it was constantly moving around on the schedule, at one point airing first-run episodes at like 10pm on a Friday night. You had to look at the TV guide each week just to know when and where it was airing. That definitely had an impact on DS9 viewership.

It wasn't until Voyager came out that the syndicated networks congealed into UPN, which was a "new" fifth television network.

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u/OverHaze 20d ago

The argument is DS9 is a better Sci-Fi TV show but a worse Star Trek TV show. They abandoned a lot of Roddenberry's optimism. DS9 examines some fascinating moral questions but for Roddenberry's humans a lot of them should have already been answered. Also Section 31 should never have been added to the canon and I stand by that one.

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u/DiscoLives4ever 20d ago

DS9 section 31 was fine because the message wasn't, "we need a loophole to do-ends-justify-the-means stuff", it was, "people will always exist that think they need to be the necessary evil, but they are wrong". Later iterations got it confused and made it worse, especially Discovery

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u/Cornelius_Wangenheim 20d ago

I wouldn't say DS9 abandoned the optimism. It's more that they put it to the test in a challenging situation (a war against a superior force). It falters a bit but still persists.

Compare it with Battlestar Galactica, which did truly abandon the optimism of Star Trek.

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u/Furycrab 20d ago

TNG I think had the slightly stronger cast even if DS9 has some strong ones.

My theory is that DS9 episodes were less contained. Season to season plot and politics asking you to watch it in order...

Easy today with streaming services. Hard back in the age of broadcast tv. So I have fonder memories of TNG.

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u/Made_Bail 20d ago

Agree. TNG had the best cast.

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u/__ali1234__ 20d ago

Colm Meaney was in both shows so it is a draw.

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u/ElGosso 20d ago

I generally prefer DS9 but I'm hard-pressed to say it's categorically better. I think the episodes are better on average than TNG's, but TNG broadly had more all-time great episodes, like Inner Light or Darmok.

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u/strandedbaby 20d ago

I think the serialized nature of the story is probably the reason for that. You can put on just about any episode of TNG and enjoy it without seeing the rest, but you need to keep up with DS9 to understand the overarching story. (FWIW, I also prefer DS9)

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u/PhotonProtons 20d ago

DS9 only really got good in the later seasons imo.

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u/Hallc 19d ago

I've still never gotten around to watching DS9 nor finished TNG. This is despite me watching Voyager and Enterprise multiple times.

There's just something about the whole 'long ship' idea that draws me in way more than someone waxing poetic about the moral imperatives of action vs inaction all the while safely backed up by a Federation of a thousand planets.

Same reason I've watched BSG and Stargate a load too. Underdog stories just draw me in way more.

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u/robisodd 19d ago

I, too, like Deep Space 362,880

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u/WakeoftheStorm 20d ago

As I mentioned in another thread my issue was all the "The Sisko" stuff early on was annoying. The politics of Bajor were interesting, but the mystical stuff wasn't really my thing.

Once the war with the dominion started I got a lot more interested in the show, but the shift to the defiant (with the entire stations command staff aboard) was a little hand - wavy

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u/Beelzebeetus 20d ago

DS9 was the better series, but TNG has the best individual episodes.

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u/Cornelius_Wangenheim 20d ago edited 20d ago

I think DS9 is the better show on average, but TNG hits higher peaks. But maybe I'm just saying that because I love the characters of Picard and Data.

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u/BuddhaLennon 20d ago

A lot of people have criticized DS9 as a rip-off of Babylon 5, and the DS9 showrunner eventually admitted as much. It might be this bit of controversy that detracts from DS9’s legacy.

I agree it was one of the best Star Trek series.

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u/Cow_God 20d ago

I don't even like her there. She does not respect Odo's boundaries at all in the first episode and is borderline sexually harassing him.

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u/jaynon501 20d ago

As a viewer I loved Luwaxana. I thought she was very entertaining. Watching the crew figure out how to deal with her was great.

From the standpoint of the crew though, she was awful. I wouldn't have blamed Picard if he'd locked her in her room kicked her off of his ship.

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u/ThePrussianGrippe 20d ago

As a relatively fresh viewer going in relatively blind I enjoyed her for the same reason I enjoyed the Q episodes: they each threw a different wrench at the crew that was otherwise mostly competent and they were nice standalones.

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u/m4gpi 20d ago

In retrospect, her character was ahead of its time, whereas most of TNG's female characters are potted plants. We saw a chaotic shrew, but now she is a mature woman with total agency, sharp wit and wisdom, and no fucks to give.

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u/SirRevan 20d ago

She is such a unique fun character  I don't understand the hate. She plays the same role as Q. An agent of chaos who can also be unprofessional and put our working professional crew in unique situations. Unlike new trek which has everyone act like emotionally stunted children.

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u/grimsaur 19d ago

She also comes from a world of empaths/telepaths. There are no secrets, so why keep things in.

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u/james___uk 20d ago

I appreciated that Picard could seemingly handle anything, the most incredible, unlikely scenarios, death-defying, unusual, you name it.

But Luwaxana? Not for a minute

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u/sponge62 20d ago

I loved those episodes because it didn't just feel like she was making Picard uncomfortable with the flirting it sometimes felt like she was making Patrick uncomfortable and it was fantastic to watch. Maybe he's just that good an actor though.

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u/the_knob_man 20d ago

The actress was married to Gene Roddenberry and was also the voice of the computer in all of the series up to Enterprise. She’s a treasure.

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u/Ed_Trucks_Head 20d ago

Deanna: "computer, why do you sound exactly like my mother?"

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u/Mean_Mister_Mustard 20d ago

The fan-made series Star Trek Continues somehow manage to get Marina Sirtis to show up and do the computer’s voice, which I thought was a nice Easter Egg from a series that already featured James Doohan’s son as Scotty.

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u/BrotherSeamus 19d ago

Search your feelings...

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u/Made_Bail 20d ago

Oh I adore Majel Barrett. Shes the best. The character writing is what I hated.

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u/crackedtooth163 20d ago

I cant believe I met her as a kid. Even looking back it seems like something out of a dream.

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u/victorbarst 20d ago

I kinda like that one episode where she falls in love with the scientist from the planet where the people plan their own suicide to avoid late life incapacity. The way she fights so hard against his culture, the federations anti-intervention laws, and his own cultural morality it almost showed her having a bit of charachter development. Shame she goes right back to being a galactic Karen right after

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u/Made_Bail 20d ago

That was definitely better than the one where she drags Worf and Alexander into the mud bath.

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u/Shaddam_Corrino_IV 20d ago

"Half a life" - great episode.

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u/The5Virtues 20d ago

And those early days as the cast is coming into their own almost make it feel like the crew had some kind of space flu and nobody was feeling quite themselves. By the end of the season the characters all feel solid and we (and they) have a clear grip on who they are.

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u/Made_Bail 20d ago

Yeah the beginning of season one was pretty hit or miss. And whoever designed the non Starfleet uniforms for most characters was on acid or something lol

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u/The5Virtues 20d ago

What, you mean you don’t gather mixed fabrics and shove them through a sewing machine at odd angles to make your pants and shirts?

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u/Meatslinger 20d ago

Classic TV show startup really. My wife and I started Fringe recently and so many of the characters give just absolutely wooden performances at the start (except John Noble because he's the GOAT) and it's kind of hard to find them sympathetic. The character of Peter Bishop, as an example, is a try-hard Han Solo ripoff who uses words like "toots" and "doll" to describe women while basically constantly wearing a smirk. Thankfully by even just the third or fourth episode you can see how the actor settled into the role, maybe even talking with the production staff and suggesting some changes, and allowed the character to become more emotionally 3D.

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u/TravelerSearcher 20d ago

They literally get a 'space flu' in an early episode. It's a rehash of a TOS story, to the point of actually referencing the original crew experiencing the same thing.

An episode like that, where the characters act out of character, is way better when you have established said characters.

But hey, it informed us that Data was 'fully functional', which was important...

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u/wvj 20d ago

I think it's the 3rd episode! They didn't wait!

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u/The5Virtues 20d ago

Oh man I hadn’t thought about that in awhile. That really is a storyline you save for when the characters are well established and their normal behavior patterns are well known to the audience.

Sometimes it truly feels like a miracle that TNG made it beyond that rough first season.

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u/Tonicwind88 20d ago

Lol what? Her episodes are some of the best episodes on the show. Truly missing the plot of Star Trek if you skip her episodes.

Of all the bad episodes, none of hers come close.

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u/Made_Bail 20d ago

Man I cannot disagree more. She feels like a "I married the creator" insert, doesn't fit the feel of the show, runs roughshod over Picard in ways that make no narrative sense...

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u/Ryplinn 20d ago

Lwaxana is a slightly exaggerated melding of various (insufferable) members of my extended family, except better-looking and more entertaining (possibly because there's a screen between her and me). If she feels unrealistic or poorly written, consider yourself lucky, because she's completely spot-on.

Similarly, Arrested Development felt too much like a documentary for me to enjoy it.

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u/SummerDaemon 20d ago

"Half a Life".

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u/MetallicDragon 20d ago

I always felt like her not fitting in was entirely the point of her character. Her flamboyant personality just doesn't mesh with the intellectual stuffiness that is Starfleet's overall culture, and that creates interesting conflicts.

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u/Tonicwind88 20d ago

Do you actually watch the show? Lots of characters have different characterizations throughout the show that all tackle the same basic theme - personal growth within an ever expanding universe. She has extremely powerful episodes based around aging and loss.

Shes in more episodes then anyone on entire series and devoted her time long past "because she was married to the creator." She oozes intellect which is why shes so attractive.

If you dont "get" her, you are not growing as an adult. Its that simple.

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u/Made_Bail 20d ago

Oh God, you're one of THOSE fans.

Nuff said.

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u/xespera 20d ago

Good point. Some of the bad episodes are pretty wild in how absurd they get. I'll never get over Crusher's family heirloom fuck ghost episode. As big and powerful as her personality is, I don't think Lwaxana could ever touch that

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u/Tonicwind88 20d ago

I was never into the show as a kid because its basically a soap opera set in space a lot of the time. It says a lot about Crusher that she will bang weird bug freak aliens or ghosts....but she just cant wrap her mind around being with a blond woman. Riker hates blonds so much that hes vaporized a few.

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u/Cow_God 20d ago

Nah she has one redeeming episode with the scientist but I just skip the rest on rewatches. I get no enjoyment over her tormenting Deanna "out of love" or her borderline sexual harassment of Picard and Odo.

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u/xbromide 20d ago

Luwaxana for you is Alexander for me

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u/MurphMcGurf 20d ago

100%, He's like the Caillou of Star Trek

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u/OverHaze 20d ago

Bejayus! Sure 'tis the space Irish so as it is.

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u/blue_wat 20d ago

I grew to love her so much. Like yes she's overbearing and eccentric but I felt like she was a strong character. Plus I found it hilarious anytime she made Picard uncomfortable. Taking a mud bath with Alex was really weird though.

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u/Made_Bail 20d ago

Yeah I despised the mud bath episode.

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u/PCYou 19d ago

Everyone here is misspelling Lwaxana 🥲

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u/Made_Bail 19d ago

Yeah that's my bad

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u/fuyu-no-kojika 20d ago

Bruh bitches can’t handle Luwaxana - legitimately some of the best episodes of trek

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u/Made_Bail 20d ago

DS9? Yes.

TNG? Hell no.

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u/SummerDaemon 20d ago

"Half a Life".

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u/fuyu-no-kojika 20d ago

Literally Dark Page.

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u/Made_Bail 20d ago

Holy shit, how did I forget that episode?

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u/xespera 20d ago

When I was a kid watching it my first time through I Hated her episodes. She was so frustrating, she was acting in a way that upset characters I liked, and made things difficult and awkward

As an adult, I LOVE her. She's chaos but different, and she's so big and uncontainable while not being malicious about it. She's just... Big and won't make herself small for anyone else, and I enjoy that

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u/otamaglimmer 20d ago

At least there's no Chakotay on TNG

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u/MitsuhaTakiName 20d ago

Just watched Up The Long Ladder last week. Definitely one of the atrocious ones.

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u/blahblah19999 19d ago

So you didn't see the one where she was topless

1

u/adius 19d ago

I think Luwaxana can fairly be described as "polarizing". There are definitely other episodes that are more universally disliked than hers.

1

u/Delphius1 20d ago

the episode with her and Worf's son is really good, otherwise, skip

1

u/MangoCats 20d ago

some truly putrid episodes. Just so bad.

Anything with Luwaxana.

And that's part of the character of the show. Whoopie was pretty cringe for me, and Wesley Crusher was worse, but again, they're part of the overall character of the series. Even with all that, I'll rate TNG above just about every series that came later. Backula as captain in Star Trek: Enterprise was different, and maybe equal in stature to TNG, with its own cringe points, but the rest feel like they're circling a toilet instead of a black hole.

1

u/MurphMcGurf 20d ago

troi's mom is funny, get outta here. so many other bad episodes to single out, but that? nah man

2

u/Made_Bail 20d ago

Surprised at all the Lwaxana love. I thought she was pretty universally disliked.

1

u/MurphMcGurf 20d ago

nah man, those episodes are fun.

1

u/Made_Bail 20d ago

I think what's so cool about this conversation is how it proves that Trek is so many things to so many people. 🥰

0

u/Statistactician 20d ago

I just love to hate Luwaxana.

0

u/Valentinee105 20d ago

S1E4 Code of Honor is pretty rough.

19

u/legit-posts_1 20d ago

Wait, why wouldn't you start with the OS?

20

u/DonkeyGuy 20d ago

I dont think they mean “dont watch Star Trek TOS” but rather don’t start Star Trek The Next Generation with the first season. Since season one of TNG was really weak compared to everything that came after.

2

u/Thurwell 20d ago

Could be either way. TOS may have started Trek but it has some really wonky episodes that are, I think, harder for a modern audience to watch. Planet of the cowboys and planet of the gangsters after watching BSG or The Expanse? One of the reasons I think S1 of TNG was so weak is it tried some of those same themes.

1

u/Eleglas 19d ago

"Weak" is an understatement, lmao.

Season 1 of TNG comes with "Code of Honor", one of the most racist pieces of media ever aired.

3

u/Ikrit122 20d ago

I saw the picture of Picard and had just read a different post talking about early TNG, so that's why I assumed TNG.

TOS Season 1 is perfectly fine to start. There are some classic Trek episodes in there.

3

u/legit-posts_1 20d ago

Just started watching Star Trek and started with the OS. Season 1 is pretty good, Balance of Terror is pretty peak. Season 2 swings way harder and has a lot of bangers but the risks made for a few more eh episodes. It evens out tho.

5

u/MooKids 20d ago

At least Encounter at Farpoint first, get introduced to the crew and one more...

5

u/Victernus 20d ago

As someone who recently got into this whole 'Star Trek' business, no one who was able to sit through TOS Season 3 should have any trouble with TNG Season 1.

3

u/Ikrit122 20d ago

Very true. TNG Season 1 feels like the average TOS episode, especially Season 3.

TOS Season 3 is another one that I would recommend just skipping through if nothing grabs your attention. Seasons 1 and 2, definitely worth watching through.

3

u/PrecipitousPlatypus 19d ago

I've started Star Trek for the first time with TNG, and the first season is awful. It really picks up around season 3, but the start is rocky to be generous.

1

u/Thurak0 19d ago

I found out the same when I rewatched it in 2020. The acting of so many actors was just terrible in season 1. They learned over time and got so much better, but season 1 was truly awful.

Patrick Steward was actually acting well, which made the other look even worse in comparison :D

But it got really a lot better over time.

2

u/SummerDaemon 20d ago

Wrong. You need to view the show as a product of its time and place. It's a time capsule of 1987 ethics, philosophy and social mores. Approach it as such and you can enjoy all the episodes despite their flaws.

2

u/1nfam0us 20d ago

Its kind of fun to watch episodes according to what story line they belong to.

2

u/PortugalTheHam 19d ago

Yea definitely skip Code of Honor . . .

2

u/indigo945 19d ago

Just remember that Africa Planet never happened, and that no such episode was ever made.

6

u/Phustercluck 20d ago

No luwaxana 

No kid episodes 

NO WESLEY EPISODES

Skip almost all the holodeck episodes

18

u/Grimmies 20d ago

So no fun? 😆

2

u/Phustercluck 20d ago

I like sci-fi, adventure, and politics. Those episodes tend to have too much drama or  about coming of age etc. The expanse is my all time fav followed by Stargate sg1/atlantis.

4

u/IvivAitylin 20d ago

No Items

Fox Only

Final Destination.

2

u/SparklingLimeade 20d ago

After getting used to the modern standard where it's all-plot all the time I miss shows that had time for silly episodes.

4

u/SmackyLittleFan 20d ago

The Wesley episode where him and Picard crashed on that desert planet was pretty good.

And I really liked the one where him and the bloke who became Tom parris in voyager covered up an accident, and Picard went full special investigator.

1

u/Fractic4l 19d ago

I also liked the one where everyone was getting addicted to that game and Wesley & his classmate had to save the day.

1

u/farnsw0rth 20d ago

You’d miss Picard singing frere Jacques

And a rare glimpse into starfleet academy… and … ih, that guy Wesley starts travelling the galaxy with

1

u/mathazar 19d ago

Skip almost all the holodeck episodes

Except the Sherlock Holmes / Moriarty episodes.

-1

u/SteamingTheCat 20d ago

And skip most of the first 3 seasons of TNG.

2

u/SummerDaemon 20d ago

I think they missed you were being sarcastic.

5

u/WakeoftheStorm 20d ago

TNG got better after they killed off Tasha. Not necessarily because of it, but that's about the timing of it

0

u/[deleted] 20d ago

[deleted]

4

u/IvivAitylin 20d ago

Fair, but also the series ended 32 years ago, it feels like there has to be a statute of limitations on spoilers.

1

u/farnsw0rth 20d ago

Someone just told me rosebud was the sled… goddamn

Wait, actually…. I honestly spoiled the original planet of the apes for someone a couple years ago and they were quite upset…. Maybe there is like a limited window of spoilers allowed before the movie gets so old that spoiler alerts reactivate, you know

4

u/xbromide 20d ago

First season in my mind does an acceptable job of bridging TOS and a new fresh take on it. It’s dripping with TOS writing and camera work while the actors and writers and whole production team are still figuring things out.

If you never watched the original series the jank stands out and can leave a bad impression.

2

u/UncleRichardson 20d ago

A small team of explorers encounter a culture of not-white people with access to amazingly useful medicine. The explorers are eager to trade for the medicine, but are hampered by the culture's attitude towards women. Eventually, the woman on the team is kidnapped to be a wife to a warlord, and gains her freedom by fighting to the death, but refuses to actually kill her opponent. Her actions have inspired change in the culture.

Did I just describe the third episode of the first season of The Next Generation, or the third episode of the first season of Stargate SG-1?

They were both written by the same person.

1

u/jeobleo 20d ago

TOS is awesome in season 1.

1

u/throwaway275275275 20d ago

The first good one is in season 2

1

u/CallMeRudiger 20d ago

If you're about to watch TNG for the very first time, do yourself a favour. You absolutely must watch season 1, episode 4 first. It truly is a first season masterpiece.

1

u/orthogonal411 20d ago

I'd say that, in Season 1 of TNG, Datalore, the 11001001 binars episode (underrated!), then maybe those last few episodes of the season are the ones to definitely check out. There are a few more good ones in there as well, to be sure, but overall the season is very inconsistent.

Season 2 of TNG has one of the best episodes in the entire show, The Measure of A Man -- perhaps one of the best TV scifi episodes in any show, ever! -- so I'd be careful about what I skip in S2 as well. There is an episode with Q that I would not want to miss and one with Moriarity that's important also. And, for Worf's background, probably The Emissary.

It is 100% true that Season 3 is where TNG really became 'itself' and got more consistently good. So Seasons 3 through 6, just watch them all even though there are a few stinkers in there. Season 7 gets a little inconsistent again, sadly, but is mostly pretty good and obviously important.

Just for giggles, and for anyone who is thinking about checking out TNG for the first time, here are a few episodes that are really very good -- as in, they get to the core of what TNG is all about, IMO -- but are often not found in Top 10 or Top 25 TNG episode lists:

--First Contact (bonus: horny alien version of Lilith Crane!)

--Who Watches the Watchers (the Picard will be pleased if you watch this one)

--Thine Own Self (a forgetful and isolated Data demonstrates the meaning of "Science, bitches!!")

--The First Duty (very forceful lesson on truth / ethics... plus Judge Bone from that old Picket Fences show!)

--The Quality of Life (further exploration of "what does it mean to be sentient and thus worthy of protection?")

TNG is my favorite TV show ever and I could go on for days... but will spare you all!!

1

u/bobloblawattorney11 19d ago

I'm a huge SW and ST fan. However I grew up on TNG and could never get into TOS

1

u/Zagl0 19d ago

You should start with Original, 60' Star Trek, power through the awful pilot, and get hooked on the first episode afterwards.

0

u/inbetweensound 20d ago

I’ve been trying to get through the first season of TNG. It gets better?

5

u/Ikrit122 20d ago

Way better. The best episodes of Season 1 are nowhere near the highs the rest of the series gets. Season 3 is considered the start of good TNG, though there are definitely good episodes in Season 2. My favorite TNG episode (and 2nd fav Star Trek episode), "Measure of a Man", is in Season 2.

If you start an episode and it doesn't seem to grab you, feel free to skip. Chances are you aren't missing much. And TNG (especially early) is mostly designed to be episodic. Later on they do some stuff that carries forward, but you don't really see that until the next series, Deep Space Nine (which, if you end up enjoying TNG, I highly recommend).

1

u/MalingeringGumby 20d ago

You have to wait for Riker to get to peak hotness and pizzazz

0

u/Shaddam_Corrino_IV 20d ago

Look at this rating chart. 3-6 are generally considered the best - then 7, 2 and 1.

0

u/ECKohns 20d ago

Actually you should start with the first Season of The original series.