This might be my autism showing but I think we’d all be much better off if we could normalize just walking up to someone and saying, “hey I think you’re cute and want to know you better, you wanna talk some time.”
Yeah....I'm an autistic woman, and NO THANKS. It would be a bit different if I was already very familiar with the man, but a stranger being that forward and putting me on the spot like that is just probably going to cause a shutdown.
I would feel a lot of pressure from someone I don't even know. Like sir, why are you expecting me to go out of my way to talk to you when I have no idea who you are and know nothing about you?
That’s interesting, I’d be the total opposite. If someone just came by and laid it all out for once I’d be ecstatic. I can either politely decline, or accept, and the air is cleared. Just goes to show that if you’ve met one autistic person, you’ve met one autistic person.
It's situational for me. 99% of the time, I really wish people would be direct.
But a stranger-man at a gym I regularly go to is not something I would want that kind of directness from. I hardly speak as it is and am in constant overwhelm already.
If it was a man who I already knew well, then I might like that. If I wasn't interested, I'd be a bit awkward-flattered and decline, but it would cause me to feel a bit weird every time I saw him at the gym, and we'd have to cross paths. That would possibly make me a little uncomfortable being there.
If I was interested, then I would appreciate the directness, but feel a bit pressured even still. That statement implies that he is expecting us to speak the next time we see each other, like he is making me decide in that moment what our interactions going forwards from there should include. I'd be going to the gym panicking and internally scripting conversations, which takes up a LOT of my spoons and really not something I want to be doing.
I don't always want to speak and enjoy bonding by quiet parallel play (heck, sometimes I literally can't speak due to situational mutism), and then if I don't speak or don't speak much, I feel like I would have failed an agreement, which triggers a you didn't keep your word! unfair bell which drives me crazy with guilt.
I would really rather just interactions happen organically if they feel natural in the moment, than gradual closeness over time and accumulated familiarity (familiarity=comfort to me, which is super important)! Then overt romantic signalling is optimal, I probably wouldn't vibe with anything other than gentle courtship.
A man I don't know at a place we both frequent coming up to me like that is going to freak me out, even if he's nice.
Way less annoying than having to try to guess the intentions of all those guys, or try to work out a non-offensive way of saying “hey I think you might be hitting on me even though you haven’t directly said so, and I don’t want to waste your time so I’ll just tell you now that I’m not interested.”
For every single one of those you would have 30 that would only say the small sentence since in this hypothetical scenario is "normalized" and "good" and whatever you are saying is not that normalized
For me, I really need familiarity, which can build over time, where I see them and natural interactions may happen. I'm AuADHD and am super overwhelmed by a LOT, I don't even speak to strangers unless necessary, then gradually get comfortable with people over a long time.
I am NOT the outgoing autist like my brother who has zero issues going to random people and asking the most random things. I'm the type that has shutdowns and goes mute if faced with a stranger engaging with me under certain contexts.
I elaborated more in my other comment!
Agreed, neurodivergency is a spectrum. Me and my brother are pretty much opposites in presentation in every way, you sound similar to him.
Also, you could not even pay me to touch dating apps, ever.
(Reply to your edit: I get shutdowns from both 😭. I went mute upon meeting my brother's girlfriend for the first few times and needed to go to the ladies bathroom to take a breath even though I didn't even say anything. And I am EXTREMELY sensitive sensory-wise. Even exposure to totally normal levels of sunlight, or sometimes even music playing will cause shutdowns. I need to go outside with sunglasses and ear defenders. My brother doesn't have any of that, he just gets meltdowns from frustration if things don't go the way he planned them to, and that is it. We are both level 2.)
Yeah, but its the same for women and men: one bad apple spoils the bunch. Women are always on the defensive to how to react towards men, because a few creeps gave them reason to. And guys have to be careful of who they try to flirt with because of a few girls they've interacted with or seen videos of. How are we to know if we go up and try to ask you out, that you don't get super offended and then go to the staff and make up some lie about what was said to you to get us banned from the gym. Is it likely to happen? Probably not, but because its happened once there's always a chance it can happen again. And also, a lot of us are normal, respectful people, and know that girls get hit on all the time, and don't want to add to the list by just randomly asking simply because we are at the same place on earth at the same moment of time. Plus, we know attractive girls are usually already in relationships, because they usually don't stay single for long, so know there is a very low likelihood of anything happening.
In this specific context it's going to always be a problem. Woman need to always be on guard because of how they've been treated by a not insignificant number of men in the past.
So as a counter-balance other men try to ask in a way that gives them a safe exit. Part of that involves trying to avoid coming on too strong. Which you are doing by telling her how you feel and also saying you're going to possibly follow up at a later date.
You ask them out by saying something like "Do you want to get coffee on Thursday?" and if they say "no" the correct response is "OK bye" and just end the conversation. Do not respond by hinting that you want to try again in the future hoping she will change her mind. If the day you selected doesn't work it's up to her to offer a better day and reschedule. Don't try to guess when they are free, take it as a "no".
tl;dr if a woman says no to an invite without offering any alternative arrangements you end the conversation.
That is a very good explanation of why that's awkward, thanks. I knew it was awkward but I would have had trouble explaining why. "You have to provide them a safe exit" is going into my explaining things bucket.
A safe exit physically and emotionally. It’s very uncomfortable for NT people to directly reject someone, so leaving some ambiguity cushions the blow for both parties.
“Hey wanna get coffee next week?”
“Oh sorry I’m busy” = maybe I’m busy or maybe I’m just not interested but you can plausibly assume I’m just busy and don’t have to feel as rejected
“I think you’re cute and I’d like to get to know you better.”
“…no thanks?” = I have no alternative except to tell you explicitly that I’m not attracted to you and I’m not interested in getting to know you.
That said, a direct approach like that will work sometimes; you just have to make sure it’s non-threatening and expect to smile and walk away if you get a no.
Wait, where is the part about trying again coming from? Did the other autistic person above me in the thread edit their comment or something and I missed it? That wasn’t suggest anywhere I can see. And of course if someone says no you should gracefully accept.
The problem is when you say things like "you wanna talk some time". Don't leave things unclear or open ended. It's either "now" or at a very specific time and place in the future. Then it's up to her to say otherwise. The point is to try to make everything into a clear yes or no answer. Either this specific date works for her or it doesn't and she offers a different one.
Men that can't take no for an answer tend to use unclear terms like "some time" in an attempt to probe or see what sticks. The counter is the take it or leave it approach.
This is one where I’m gonna have to take your word for it because it seems functionally identical to me. You’ve approached, expressed your intent, and given them a comfortable wiggle room to say no without feeling bad.
Plus approaching with a specific time like that feels too domineering to me.
I'm going to be honest with you, as a straight autistic dude, I want exactly zero people coming up and talking to me while I'm at the gym. Women receive enough direct and indirect advances as it is. I dont think your suggested approach improves the situation.
As another autistic, following on what you said: the purpose of the ambiguous possibly-inane opener is to check in about whether the other person is open to interaction at all.
Well personally I don’t do any of this because I have no idea how to interact with NT people anyway. Just trying to understand people a little more I guess, even if I end up not really “getting” it
You can just tack on "or another day if that works for you?". But you do have to give a specific date and time in addition to that. You're trying to set her up for being able to say "no" or "yes" in as many different ways as possible.
So because I have a lot of time on my hands and asking someone else when they have time because that aproach just leads to a quicker result, I'm being creepy? Good to know. Not that I need it, I'm in a stable relationship
As another autistic person I feel the sentiment but also feel like in general it'd be better to do it in like a straightforward/reasonable progression i.e one hang out, second time hang out expressing "I feel like we are comfortable with each other and I just want to say-..." And laying it all out there. That way you aren't setting someone up to be a deer in headlights but also not being coy about everything.
Like others said though the gym is always just gonna be bad haha
In the best world it's "uphill awkward battle", in worse/most cases it's straight up harassment
Different is not the same as abnormal
But I see where you are coming from
Why am I getting downvoted on this I am just sharing what I think if you disagree, reply and I’ll elaborate and probably understand your point of view better
I think many of you are thinking of “normal” as the same as everyone else
From my perspective, barely anyone is “abnormal”. Autism is an example: it’s different from many others but any individual is not the only one like that
I don’t exactly know how to word this well but I hope you know what I mean
But why does it imply negativity? And something doesn't have to be true for the entire population to be considered "normal". Blonde hair is normal, red hair is normal, naturally white hair from birth is abnormal. And pretty cool, as long as it doesn't impact their health.
That's just how it's used. I don't know what else to tell you. If you go around calling people abnormal, they're not going to take that as a neutral descriptor.
No, you are adding your own subjective interpretation to the word that does not reflect the accepted meaning. 'Abnormal' does not connote a positive or negative meaning, only a deviation from the standard (normal).
I appreciate the sensitivity to others feelings, but most of us are pretty aware of how "not normal" we are. There's a common sentiment in the autism community of feeling like an alien on the wrong planet. The differences in the ways we think make it hard to relate to "normal people." It's not insulting to say I'm not normal. I feel my abnormality constantly.
As I’ve said before in this thread this is just my perspective and I am sorry if what I am saying is inconsiderate or disregarding real people that have had to be “different” all their lives
"Normal: usual; typical; not extraordinary". Since the vast majority of the population isn't autistic, I think we can in fact say that not being autistic is normal.
We aren't the "normal" - that's why we are neurodivergent!
We are a normal part of the population, but there is a reason there is a diagnosis. I have very rarely felt "normal" in society. I have felt so othered and weird my whole life, to tell me I'm normal feels like it's ignoring my experience as a autistic person.
I'm sure you mean well with your comment - this is just my feelings about it!
I understand I will never know what it means to be autistic since I am not but from my perspective “normal” doesn’t mean the same as everyone else if you know what I mean
Sorry if my reply was inconsiderate or disregarding real people that had to deal with being “different” all their lives
Please google 'normal' before you encounter further confusion. They used it correctly. Being autistic is not normal, if being autistic was the norm it would mean the average person is autistic.
It sounds like you have your own prejudices against the term 'normal', you should work on that.
Yeah it was tough for me as a autistic person. But ALSO as an autistic person it was logical to like, ask for what I want? What else would I do? So that's what I did!
Omg if I didn't already know I'm autistic, this would do it. This would be music to my ears!! Is he cute and seems nice? I would blush and say "okay". If I've seen him be creepy or assholey I would say "oh, no thank you".
Either way, 10/10 communication!
I've met people who are cute but are assholes, people who are cute but make immediately make me feel uncomfortable. And what I think is cute, the next person might find unattractive. It's all subjective.
Yeah that sounds nice in theory but being that forward is hard for most people, generally people like to look for subtle hints in an opening conversation that the other person isn’t repelled and you have a bit of natural rapport, otherwise you’re expecting the woman to be willing to talk to you again despite knowing nothing about you
That's how society used to operate pre-internet. We really need to normalize being blunt about dating because humans were totally fine walking up to strangers and asking for coffee dates and now it's magically a sign you're a huge creep? This feels like a psy-op to manufacture lonliness.
I'm "normal" (I guess) and it's not that scary. Being turned down is not something that is inherently embarrassing; it's only what you make of it. If you make a big deal of rejection, it's embarrassing, but if you shrug and move on unaffected with your life (which you can), it's fine.
Right, so you're only considering yourself here. I agree, you can be unaffected, but the other person might be constantly on edge because of your actions
Yeah as a woman I can see ME doing this, but if a man approached me with the same strategy I'd guess he wants to rape me/ kidnap me/ stalk me or at the very least will blow up in my face the moment I say I'm not into him
Okay, but would the end results not be better in this case? He doesn’t have to be awkward anymore and she doesn’t have the uncertainty about the situation.
The uncertainty derives from how he will react after you turn him down. You’re assuming the best, that the man will politely accept it and the situation is resolved. As a woman, I’ve been in the position where turning the guy down leads to being called a standoffish bitch who won’t give him a shot, or had a male colleague who normally takes a different line home rush over and hop on with me to go in the wrong direction for him, because he’d noticed a male customer had stuck around waiting for me to get off work and was doing shit like stopping whenever I stopped a few meters back just to stay behind me.
That’s what the problem is: are you going to take it well if I say no, or are you going to be waiting in the parking lot to try again? We can’t know.
If you open with that then there's two ways it can go. Either the woman says "yes, lets go on a date" to a total stranger, or she says "no thanks" and the door is now closed. This is assuming the best case scenario where the man is well adjusted and takes no for an answer. The reason people dance around their feelings and don't just shoot their shot right out of the gate is because they're still in the process of courting the woman. There's a lot of pursuing interactions, building reputation, and getting to know each other before putting it to a blunt and largely irretractable yes/no. As a woman, I don't think I'd ever say yes to a random guy asking me out while I'm trying to lift weights.
I guess I took “talk sometime” to mean more of a texting/chatting thing more than a formal date thing, but I totally see what you’re saying. I personally don’t go on dates unless I know people really, really well. It’s why I can’t do apps, lol.
Idk, it worked when I was a younger acoustic person, but then we didn't have the social implication of not talking up strangers. And also to me "no" was a sentence in itself, I just left people alone afterwards.
Thank god I'm married I would not survive today's dating mechanisms.
If that world existed, I'd be fine with a rejection. I'd be a little hurt and disappointed, but those would be my feelings to process after reassuring her that there were no hard feelings and giving her space. I recognize that men react poorly and violently often enough to make that world impossible though.
but arent you already talking to them? so asking if they wanna talk sometime doesnt really make sense, because, like, if they say no, then you have already talked, and you cant untalk to them?
Autistic man: Please do so it would make everything so much easier. That said, as others have pointed out, I will refrain from doing so because esp with my size it comes off kinda … assaulty
103
u/Choice-Spinach145 7d ago
This might be my autism showing but I think we’d all be much better off if we could normalize just walking up to someone and saying, “hey I think you’re cute and want to know you better, you wanna talk some time.”