Something people seem to miss consistently is sexual vulnerability. Up skirts, wardrobe malfunctions, posing and phrasing are all used to make female characters appear as sexually available and reciprocal as possible. Shirtless buff men doesn't touch that at all
That's because shirtless buff men are for the men in a power fantasy kind of way and the vulnerable half naked women are also for men in a sex fantasy kind of way. It's all made for the male gaze.
It's not that their fictional, it's that they barely resemble real men at all, and the artists and fans of that stuff don't use real men as a template for it.
That's exactly how sexualization works. Look at sexualized women. None of them look like women real or act like it. It's pure sexual fantasy set aside from reality.
Yea a lot of “this is how we should sexualize men” examples confuse me, and I don’t know if it’s because progressive people are frequently queer and a lot of people against the constant sexualization of women are women, but a lot of it just seems like people sexualizing flat chested women labeled as men instead of men.
You can't really divorce desire like that from culture; most of how we understand sexuality, and even beauty generally, is informed by thousands of years of women being a sexual commodity while men weren't.
So when you now have people wanting to sexualize men, you're left in an odd spot where that's not really been a concern for men for a long time; women were the ones who had to perform historically, with their actual interest in men not really being considered.
Lacking a language and cultural history of sexualizing men, people will often default to the visual language we do have for sexualisation; that of women's.
Add onto that, sensualization, though technically unisex and applicable broadly, had also been largely applied to women, and so can feel feminine as well.
THIS THIS THIS SO MUCH FUCKING THIS! Scant clothing doesn't have the same purpose on women and men, so everyone saying "see how men dehydrate themselves for movies" doesnt work cause they are doing it for different reasons while pandering to the same demographic.
There are plenty of sexualised men in media catered towards women and gays, they are just less popular than media for men and general audience, and I do think people are conflating shirtless whit sexualised, I don't think the average man from otomes or moder romance books thend to be as hyper masculine as the average shirtless buff dude in media for dudes, hyper buff dudes seems more common in media for gay men though.
A lot of anime, manga, and LNs sexualize men. When most people think about anime, they think about Shonen. Obviously hot women are going to be the focus since the intended audience is teenage guys. So many reverse harems, romance shows intended for a female audience, and yaoi out there though. Fujoshis are some of the most fun women to talk to because they aren't embarrassed to be degenerates.
Oh I know shojo do a good job with a diverse harem for it's female lead or at least they used to back when I was deep in that sauce. Fushigi yugi had something for everyone, Nuriko woke up some confusing thoughts in me. So does full metal alchemist brotherhood. Got just as many thirsting for compassionate and nurturing Sig Curtis as there are for mustang. And then there are the heartbroken Hughes fans. And yeah I did my time in the fields of yaoi, they are wide and fertile with a bumper crop
Jasmine from Aladdin or Chel from El Dorado or Megara from Hercules or Lola Bunny from Space Jam just from the top of my head. Those movies are for children and nobody bats an eye about sexualized female characters.
Yeah this whole comment thread is pretty creepy in my opinion and touches on another thing that really bothers me: women sexualising younger men and it being seen as cute. The whole stranger things Will and Mike thing comes to mind.
There is a weird double standard at play in my opinion around female gaze and male gaze. Just look at pop bands. Women can obsess over men and its seen as ok but obviously (and fairly) if a man did that it would be creepy. The female gaze extends to other women too in that all the skimpy outfits and sexualistion done by pop singers is done for women. Men don't really have an equivalent.
Dude one of my examples was a literal dwarf who is 100's of years old and very much not a child or young for his race. The reason there can be that female gaze is that women are viewed as less threatening. The old aunties in kpop demon hunter do not have theat as Jimbob watching a countdown to the Olson twins reaching 18
So grown women advocating for two children (stranger things) to be in a same sex relationship when one is clearly straight or grown women sexualising a teenage boy at the Olympics (Tom Daily) is ok because you don't find them threatening?
I've never watched stranger things so I won't comment on that. Most sexualizating I hear from women is not as scummy sounding as men. It's more a simple "damn they are hot". Versus "I want to open her legs and see what's there". It's more like appreciating art than spank bank
Bollocks. You have a very one sided opinion on this. Look how much smut is covered in pop culture currently. Who do you think this is aimed at because I promise you its not men. I was in the book section of my local supermarket this week and Gillian Anderson's new book was for sale. This is hardback detailing the sexual desires of women as submitted by the public. This is something you can buy on your weekly shop and women can read by the pool on holiday. Now, I don't have a problem woth that at all but there isn't a male equivalent. The double standard is pretty clear.
Relevant video essay on sexualisation of men in media (from the perspective of someone who is actually attracted to men, importantly). I've watched this twice and it brings up some really important points about the differences between sexualisation of men and women, and the whole possession/aspiration thing a number of people have brought up in this thread.
Men are plenty sexualized, just not so much in visual media, because the majority of women tend to consume erotica through literary media, as opposed to men, who tend to consume erotica through visual media. And even the most raunchy anime can’t hold a candle to the absolute degenerate way some of the romantasy slob out there sexualizes it’s characters.
what about the romance novels where the male love interest in a mafia CEO boss billionaire who has an interest in a plain old girl like her. Like thos Y/N memes.
what about the reverse harem animes. Where a bunch of dudes chasing after a female lead, who arguably treats them horribly. Yet they are still infatuated with her for some reason.
LMFAO, fuck no. You have to cherry pick pretty heavily to find men sexualized to the amount of women are on average. If you do try to actually sexualize men, men will whine that it looks gay.
And no shirtless dudes dont count, thats not meant for women, thats meant for men. Not for sexual appeal of course, but as a "coolnes" appeal.
Women loving guys have never said... you know what. Thor needs to more shirtless . Like if guys walking around half naked isn't sexualized what do you think is .
Alright, ask yourself this, why does he look like that? A female character has her whole tits out for an obvious reason, but why does he take his shirt of? Who is he showing it off to? Cause its not to good look to women, its to look hard, powerful, rich, cool, etc. to men. Thats not the same thing as being depicted in what society would consider degrading dress purely to appeal to someone.
are you saying this because you think sexualization is a positive thing and you want more of it for the women gaze, or are you saying this because you get off to the idea of revenge?
How about dead cells.... main character, a man, can wear pink crop tops that barely cover his titties... and he can wear dresses.... have bigger boobs than women.... and true final boss [not the HotK] literally has his huge titties out with while he could be completely covered up.... and the grils are like all covered up and not sexualized at all.
Sort of an aside, but I find it really sad that we've given up the fight against objectification/overly sexualized media for women (and in general). Somehow it went from "this is too much and unhealthy" to "we need MORE of this".
I'm rather shocked how little it comes up in this discussion.
It's a running joke in the community that the series does this despite not being gay/yaoi focused media and having like... 4 gay people in the series, both of which die in part 5.
No it's buff men with a body fat percentage of -1, muscles bigger than their head, jawlines harder than diamond, waists and legs that look like they ought to tip over, and a dong bulge that extends several inches from their crotch all wearing clothes that either excentuate their crotch and or ass, leave nothing to the imagination, or aren't wearing anything at all.
But sure let's split hairs. Not like that's the same thing this post is making fun of but on the other side.
People don’t like over sexualizing women because it’s unrealistic and can hurt women’s image and beauty standards.
If you think that these men in Jojo are normal and this is how men look and aren’t over-exaggerated to look hot, then you might be apart of the problem too
Yeah, if people really think this is simply "a man in good shape," it's making a lot more sense why eating disorders and BDD in teenage boys receives virtually no resource dedication despite having really comparable rates to teenage girls
I once said to my wife "I think my ideal build would be Brad Pitt's when he was in Fight Club" and she goes "Oh, but that's so scrawny. I'd go for something a little bigger like Alan Ritchson."
People seem to have no idea where the standards are for men. I think the manosphere shit that goes around is nonsense but it's these sorts of things that give demagogues hooks into young men.
those are NOT just very muscular men. they’re literally all unachievable physiques. all of them have literally perfect no flaw faces and muscles not even steroids could give you. if we want to be nitpicky, jojo’s is just as unrealistic (up until like part 4) as those 38DD breasts.
The point this is attempting to convey is horseshit. Everyone regardless of gender or sexuality is impacted by sex appeal. Its quite literally tied to base instinct, which is why its the oldest marketing trick in the book.
Now you might say men are more susceptible because they have a tendency to think with their dicks sometimes, but sex appeal is absolutely an effective marketing tactic for women.
The best example is the hot muscular old spice dude selling deodorant. Yes its male deodorant, but they werent the target audience. At the time that commercial was made, Old Spice knew that women in the household did the lions share of the grocery shopping. Hence why the commercial starts with "Look at your man. Now look at me. Now back to your man. And back to me". The actor is directly speaking to the women of the household, and that add is not targeted at their spouses, despite the fact they are the end user.
Hahahahahahahahahaha. You think that the build of those men is not a comparably difficult to achieve body standard to some of the things you mentioned? What a fucking hypocrit. Jesus Christ
You think that the build of those men is not a comparably difficult to achieve body standard to some of the things you mentioned?
You think women can change the size of their bust or shape of their body? How exactly do you think we would do that without cosmetic surgery?
Being attractive is not the same thing as being objectified. Look at the women drawn in OP's comic. Show me the male equivalent of that, with their sexual characteristics comically exaggerated to be "sexier".
The amount your abs show is partially genetic. I had a friend who went the gym 3 times a day and ate a super strict diet. He was in super good shape and clearly very well built. He still didnt have the level of muscle definition in the image I sent, because again the degree to which said muscle tone shows is partially generic.
Im not saying that unrealistic beauty standards are not harmful for women. They absolutely are. Im saying its hypocritical to get tied in a knot about it and then pretend that men dont also get sexualized
Looking at images online those all just look like exceptionally fit and handsome anime guys. Being attractive is not the same thing as being sexualized.
The show is very female gaze-y and specifically made to make teenage girls thirst after the cast and relentlessly ship the male characters with each other.
Yes, sexualization for men and women looks different. The average man considers other things attractive than the average woman. And Free! is showcasing this, it is an example of actual male sexualization in media specifically made for women.
_____________________
But if you want actual unrealistic depictions of body which border to body horror, I can give examples of this as well.
There is the entire phenomenon called "yaoi hands". Here is an example of it:
Or there also exist manga and anime with absurdly long necks, made for women because they find it attractive. An example of such an anime would be
The comment I replied to is continuing the same false narrative as the original comic. There are sexualized men in media. Sex appeal is the oldest marketing tactic in the book and works on people of all genders and sexualities
It doesnt say "men don't get sexualized", it's saying "they don't get sexualized enough", hence them saying "more sexualized men" rather than just "sexualized men"
For the record: Im not saying its wrong for men to be socialized or anything. In saying the difference is not nearly as pronounced as the way its portrayed is this comic. This comic is not close to reality. Legit I just walked off a plane and saw this 2 min later lol:
Where exactly did you get the idea that this comic was arguing that EVERY piece of media is like this? It makes no claim to universality and serves only as a commentary on media that does do this
Look at most every fighting game, for example. Street fighter 6, Tekken, and guilty gear are the most popular ones and all released within the last 5 years
It exists, just not nearly in the same way or frequency. When men are presented sexually they don't just get a camera shoved up their asshole, they get to keep their dignity, usually just presented as hot and in control! Women however will get upskirts during fightscenes, they'll get groped by perverts for laughs, they'll have boys walk in on them in the bath, they'll bump into a guy and somehow end up sitting on his face, etc.. It's very clearly not the same thing at all.
So no rebuttal? Not gonna tell me men in fact always get the camera shoved up the ass? Not gonna tell me there's an equal frequency of sexualized battle damage for men in anime? Groping? Peeping? Sitting on girls faces? Could it be that you know you're full of shit?
131
u/gaegurliepancake 15h ago
we need more sexualized men in media