r/composer • u/Far_Huckleberry_2585 • Jul 06 '26
Discussion Can't be bothered...
I have been making music for while now, and it might be just me but doesnt it feels like music industry is so overly saturated.
I just can't be bothered to compete anymore.
Most of time working with music is not worth it at all, bad income, hard to get into anything that pays more than 50 bucks beacause theres already tons of people offering less. Offer is much bigger than demand, and yet devs and producers cant seems to find each others?
I didnt think i was going to say this, but it seems like that post your own content on youtube and spotify to try get views and what not is the best option... activily looking for work as a musician is very hopeless.
So now as a musician the main goal is to get a lot of views to become somewhat famous... it doesnt feel like there is love for the art of music, now isl about who can make a shitload of generic samples/tracks so you can have a "portfolio".
And dont even get me started on AI...
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u/65TwinReverbRI Jul 06 '26
If you define “worth it” as something that’s very unlikely to happen for you, then it’ll never be worth it.
If you define “worth it” as achievable goals - however low they may be, then it can be worth it.
If you define “worth it” as simply “the joy of doing it” then it’ll always be worth it.
and it might be just me but doesnt it feels like music industry is so overly saturated.
Oh it’s not just you. But you’re probably young and only now just realizing this. It’s been this way for a good while now.
I just can't be bothered to compete anymore.
Right - and that’s why “successful” people are successful - it’s not about musical talent or skills, it’s about “outlasting the competition” - being able to work towards goals and develop networks that “the average person who wasn’t born lucky” can’t do. No trust fund? Forget it. No parents who encouraged you and bought you musical gear? Forget it. No ardent supporters who get you into the right groups? Forget it.
but it seems like that post your own content on youtube and spotify to try get views and what not is the best option...
Yeah, it’s not. It’s what “kids who don’t know better” do - they think they’re going to get “discovered”. It’s just not going to happen.
You had to be in on it at the beginning. I have a friend who got into a style of music right as it was taking off and posting it online at a time when that kind of thing was taking off (so this is decades ago) and ended up being the top rated artist on this up and coming forum that didn’t yet have too much competition nor was over saturated. He “got noticed” because of it and got picked up to make music for The Weather Channel, and then the parent companies, which got him some work with HBO and Showtime (not for a series or anything, just like promo material, etc.).
But it didn’t result in him becoming the next Hans Zimmer or anything…
activily looking for work as a musician is very hopeless.
As a musician? You can gig.
As a composer? You don’t have anything anyone wants they can’t get for free.
It’s capitalism and consumerism. You have to have something that other people can make money from. THEN they want you.
If you don’t have that, then too bad.
And even then, you have to “get noticed”, which means you often have to sacrifice your art for a “brand”.
So now as a musician the main goal is to get a lot of views to become somewhat famous…
They’re not musicians. They are entertainers who focus on music.
And why they’re successful is not because of their musical ability - which can range anywhere from basic to exceptional - it’s because of their ability to shape themselves, or willingness to let other people shape them into a marketable product.
Lady Gaga is a great example. She’s extremely talented, but you really wouldn’t know it from how she started. To get noticed, and to be marketable - to gain a following, it was a very flamboyant start. But you see her “not all done up” in a show with Tony Bennet or whatever and realize “wow, she’s really good , why did she have to be so flamboyant”…
But many of us don’t like that - we don’t want to have to “sell out” to become famous. Or can’t. Or don’t have what the handlers can turn into that.
It’s a who you know, who you snow, and who you blow world. Parents not connected in the film and music industry? Sorry Billie, no one cares. Can only write simplistic music, but has a personality to schmooze, sorry Hans, you’re not getting work. Not beautiful enough? Well…
It’s all LUCK.
And luck generally comes from wealth.
Most “rags to riches” stories actually have a lot more to them than is widely known. And most of them are all about timing, not skills. Luck.
And it comes from being lucky enough to be in an environment where you can “out last the competition” - that is, competition from hunger, homelessness, etc. - competition from the things in LIFE that are getting in the way of composing.
I’m not saying people don’t work hard. But I’m saying you can work WAY harder than someone else, and even be far better than someone else, but if you’re not what people want, aren’t willing to sacrifice your standards, or just aren’t in the right place at the right time, or weren’t born with the right personality, you’re not getting very far.
And yeah, “hiding behind a computer screen” isn’t going to cut it. You need to work with real human beings still.
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u/MeekHat Jul 06 '26
Well, it's the way it is. Making music is an extremely rewarding activity, and the barrier of entry has never been lower and is only going to drop. The supply is tending towards infinity, but the demand isn't growing nearly as fast, which means your success is more and more based on luck, so try buying a lottery ticket every time you compose a music piece and see which one gets you your money back first.
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u/UltraBlueMadness Jul 06 '26
Where can we listen to your music?
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u/Far_Huckleberry_2585 Jul 07 '26
I closed my platforms recently, becausenof how i was feeling about music industry.
So now i just send link to people whenever they ask.
I'm thinking about using yt from now on to post music...
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u/r3art Jul 06 '26 edited Jul 06 '26
If music for you is about competing and income and not about art, you were doing it wrong anyway.
You complain about there is no "love for the art", but you are a huge part of it with the mindset in this post.
Let me offer another perspective: There was no time ever in history where we ever had so much great resources and instruments available. I can buy quite solid exotic instrument on the web and record amazing stuff in my home studio and if I need an instruments that I can't get, theres a ton of amazing VST instruments available that sound absolutely real. I actually DO WRITE AND RECORD abstract orchestral music every day alone in my office and can include exotic instruments to make it even more unique. How fucking amazing is that? YES.
Do I care if anyone will ever listen to it? Nope. Not all all. Feedback, a few sales of my music and comments from strangers are nice, but that's not why I am doing it.
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Jul 06 '26
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u/r3art Jul 06 '26
"Going pro" inherently means "going professional, i.e. earning money". If that turns into "need to earn money with that to support my lifestyle", of course you have to compete with others for resources.
But that always takes away from the art as such.
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Jul 06 '26
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u/r3art Jul 06 '26 edited Jul 06 '26
"So when you perform like three songs and they do ok and then your bait hits the water and the fish start biting like hell"
...then you have to do the one trick that finally worked over and over and over again. You can't innovate anymore. If you want to do something completely new you'll lose a huge portion of your audience who now expect you to perform the one thing they like. And something needs to pay the rent. So you repeat the trick and again and again.
You said it yourself:
"You just use that bait again because it worked so well and the feeling of having that much energy to be fed musically"
And:
"Also their moods change, one day accordion is the big earner, then it’s a Sanshin, then it’s trumpet, then it’s flute, then it’s specifically hijazz scale"
So you write for them. Not for yourself. That's totally fine. But not my (rather strict, I admit it) definition of art.
From my POV, there are only two ways to achieve complete artistic freedom: 1) Not caring about money or success in the first place 2) Earning enough money that you don't have to care anymore
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Jul 07 '26
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u/r3art Jul 07 '26
It's great and must be your absolut dream life if that works for you. Does not for me. Anything pushing my artistic direction into a certain way does not do the trick for me. And you cannot ever be immune to this push if your income depends on it.
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Jul 07 '26
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u/r3art Jul 07 '26
So we are basically the same. Not depending on the money is the only way.
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u/Any_Flight5404 Jul 07 '26
Right, I work as a full-time composer Monday-Thursday. I have Friday-Sunday free. If I use that free time to write music for myself that is not dependent on income, explain to me what advantage you believe you have over me?
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u/Any_Flight5404 Jul 07 '26
Anything pushing my artistic direction into a certain way does not do the trick for me. And you cannot ever be immune to this push if your income depends on it.
That's not true. You can do both paid projects and STILL do your own music in your free time that is entirely for personal pleasure and not for income.
The only difference is that the person who is composing full-time will have substantially better technical skills and better resources available to them.
For example, if a scoring stage and orchestra are hired to record a score for a paid project and you complete it with time left, that time the client has to be paid for regardless, so you can use that free time to have your personal music recorded by a professional orchestra for free.
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u/r3art Jul 07 '26
That obviously is the most common way to manage it. The other is teaching or other jobs in the industry. It's not for me, though. I can't do the thing I love most as a commissioned work.
I only can do it for totally different genres that I don't care much about.
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u/Any_Flight5404 Jul 07 '26
Teaching is not composing music full-time. Teaching also usually pays far less.
I only can do it for totally different genres that I don't care much about.
So you would want to collaborate with a film director or game studio, spending months writing music full time for a genre you don't care much about? That wouldn't work in reality. If you have no passion for the project, that will come through in the music.
It's far better to turn down jobs that don't inspire you professionally than to do a bad job and then be judged on it.
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u/Any_Flight5404 Jul 06 '26
If music for you is about competing and income and not about art, you were doing it wrong anyway.
That is the exact reality of working as a film, TV or game composer, though. You are competing against other composers for jobs (pitching against them), and you are having to manage recording budgets and manage finances.
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u/r3art Jul 06 '26
Working as a wedding photographer ist not the same as doing photography as an art form for self-expression, that is correct. Writing excel spreadsheets in an office to earn money is not the same as writing novels. Also water is wet.
What exactly is your argument?
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u/Any_Flight5404 Jul 06 '26 edited Jul 06 '26
I am sure Hans Zimmer's work is less artistic, has less expression and emotion, and resonates with fewer people than your art.
What exactly is your argument?
If it wasn't obvious, most people have to start somewhere. Someone who starts out earning an income as a wedding photographer gets paid to practice and refine their skills and may later become a successful photographer who establishes their own unique voice and is accepted as an artist.
Excel spreadsheets are not relevant to writing novels. However, there are plenty of famous authors who started off doing things like proofreading, editing and writing for local newspapers.
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u/r3art Jul 06 '26
Yes, Hans Zimmer is quite generic and hated by a lot of artists LOL
If THAT guy is your ultimate idol, I guess there’s nothing to talk about here. That’s like starting a rock band and saying “I hope we can be the next Nickelback one day…”
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u/Any_Flight5404 Jul 06 '26
hated by a lot of artists
So if you and Hans were to play in the same venue in the same city, surely you would get a much bigger audience?
“I hope we can be the next Nickelback one day…”
It's not my personal taste, but if that was a band's dream, I don't have a problem with it and wouldn't belittle them for it.
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u/r3art Jul 06 '26
I’ll copy and paste the first sentence of my original comment again, because you clearly could not be bothered to read it before replying to it:
“If music for you is about competing and income and not about art, you were doing it wrong anyway.”
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u/Any_Flight5404 Jul 06 '26
How do you get good at art without practice? So lets say a competitive cellist, who does session recordings as an income and therefore has the time to practice constantly, are they going to have more skills and abilities than someone who only plays for a few hours on Sundays?
Is that wedding photographer going to gain thousands of hours of more practical experience using a camera to develop their skills?
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u/r3art Jul 06 '26
Art is NOT competitive and its quality is not measured in crowds or practice hours. You start to sound a little insane.
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u/Any_Flight5404 Jul 06 '26 edited Jul 06 '26
To be able to make a living from art so you can dedicate your life to being able to constantly practice and refine your skills is highly competitive.
competitive and its quality is not measured in crowds or practice hours.
Yes, of course. Being able to play instruments and control them well to express and portray nuance and emotion requires neither practice nor skills. Nor does recording, nor does mixing, nor does mastering, orchestration, etc.
You are absolutely right, there is no difference between a muddy mess of a mix by someone who has no skills vs someone mixing a track with skills and intent to portray the emotion from it they intended.
None of this matters, of course. There is absolutely no difference between someone picking up a cello for the first time and someone with 10,00 hour of practice; both will know exactly how to achieve the sound and emotion they desire in seconds.
Someone with absolutely no understanding of synths will be able to program a sound they imagine in their head in seconds on any synthesiser, because no skill, knowledge, practice or understanding is required.
Nothing involved in composition requires learning, skill or practice whatsoever. I never, ever use a particular compressor or guitar distortion pedal because it has characteristics that add to the intent and emotion of the track. None of this matters or requires any practice, understanding or knowledge at all. It's completely irrelevant.
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u/Far_Huckleberry_2585 Jul 06 '26
I would love to listen to your music, and i see your point. Mindset is what makes the difference, and for something as music why is there so much of this mindset? How come art can have gone to this direction, because i believe that I'm a explicit example of how many if not most of feel? Wouldn't you agree?
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u/r3art Jul 06 '26
It's right there in my profile a click away.
I believe that most people feel that way because of social media, of course. Using that shit leads to believing that "likes", "followers" and any kind of quantitative numbers are the most important metric and somehow even say something about the quality of art. They do not. Popularity was never an important measure in art, quite the opposite.
So just delete that shit and care more about your art than the reactions. If you factor in the reactions already when writing the music, you're not an artist, but an entertainer.
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u/Far_Huckleberry_2585 Jul 06 '26
Hard quote, love it. Social media does makes easier to follow the "trend" even when its bad.
And yeah, i agree, thats why i csnt be bothered to care about attention or money when it comes to music anymore, it kills the purpose...
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u/AxisLogos Jul 11 '26
I think if we're honest with ourselves, a lot if not all of us have been in this or a similar feeling.
I have probably made more money in 6 months of selling empanadas on the streets of Medellin than I have in my entire 30 years as a composer.
Yet I still actively and earnestly compose. I am far from being in the position cyncally described here as 'financially privileged position which enables one to just compose for the love of it' ... Reduces the value of our music to 'someones vanity project' with no intrinsic value because everything is subjective anyway (cue: 'theres no point' and nihilistic worldview).
I challenge this mindset based on the definition that making music - ultimately, is a form of communicating that which is not possible or is at least significantly less effective - through other means (writing, visual).
To me, what matters is the act itself and the sincerity of my intentions - so the intrinsic value of the work isn't tied to anyone's external validation - it is what it is.
When I make a pizza for my wife, I don't stand there with a clipboard and asking for a detailed assessment... I don't get into a session of justifying, arguing, defending and explaining the qualities of the pizza in response to the critique I was so desperate for. I make the pizza with the toppings she wants, I give it to her and she says thanks.
She doesnt always tell me what she thinks about it. I resist the urge to ask - I just get on with my day.
It was made with sincerity - sincerity is an expression of truth - and truth doesn't need defending.
So basically, I find that when I approach my creative work in this way - I don't get so hung-up over how financially successful or popular my music is or whether or not it's worth doing based on solely on that.
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u/MarzmanJ Jul 06 '26
If you are in it to "compete " and make money, I have a course to sell you...
But seriously, Make music for you. Forget fame. Be happy if you have a couple of really cool superfans because they really dig your sounds.
If your day job is music and this is how you feel, get out. Stabilise your income.
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u/4Gong Jul 06 '26
There is a huge difference between the art and the perception.
Art is doing it for yourself and not expecting anyone to like it. It is creating something only you can create. You can’t control how people react to it.
If you want people to listen to your music, you should study marketing first, which is also a very valid path if you really want to do that. It’s a different approach and needs a different viewpoint. I realised this myself a few years back.
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u/Jazzlike_Egg6250 Jul 06 '26
I’ve been a working composer for thirty years. I’ve done well. It’s always been about your network. And that doesn’t work online. You have to meet people and build a relationship with them. A real relationship. It’s never been just about talent. That’s important of course but the world is full of talented people. It’s really about are you good to work with. Do you deliver the goods under pressure. Do you know how to work on a team. Can you keep your ego in check. In professional situations those answers translate into dollars. Trust is key and the only way to establish trust is build a relationship. Directors will return to you again and again if they trust you.
One last thing: (I don’t usually post things like this)
There’s never been more than 500 or so people making a living as a composer. The get paid work has always been tough to get. The competition is fierce. John Williams is your competitor. If you don’t have that level of skills it’s impossible.
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u/Seriphyn Jul 07 '26
The majority of people who are making a living off of music are the ones doing it live within an in-person professional network. Assuming you're talking about the online world of commissions, that is generally dead or dying across all fields anyway.
I am both a performing musician and a secondarily a composer. I don't plan to do online commissions insofar as the latter. I'd prefer to wait for an opportunity that comes from doing the former.
Take Tim Davies. He is at the top of the profession as a composer. He started as a live big band drummer.
Check out even your local originals music scene. I know someone that plays mostly indie rock but also writes for string quintets for studio work.
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u/ah2021a Jul 07 '26
Unfortunately you don’t need talent or good music to make it in the music industry, nowadays you just need money to make money as an “artist”. But don’t let that take the creativity and art from you and discourage you from making music, it’s bigger than that. Yeah I wish it was different for us, but the industry never actually was and never will be about the art, it’s just about the money.
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u/RightAd7627 Jul 14 '26
I experienced something similar almost 15 years ago. I quit composing/making music for income and have been surviving decently by "teaching" piano
unfortunately at some point you gotta accept the reality and move on to whatever gives you stable income
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u/violoncellouwu Jul 06 '26
I'm sorry, but this take is awful... You don't pursue music and truly expect that the money flows in. This is a largely individual carreer, and it depends on your passion for the art, not the commercialism.
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u/Far_Huckleberry_2585 Jul 06 '26
I dont agree so much, but i do see that making music should be a way of income, but a way of expression...
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u/existential_musician Jul 06 '26
Another perspective. You must have been told or seen that "standing out" is a competition against other composers. It's not. It's a competition against your self, your taste, your production value, your music skills, your self-journey. People will come. Just make music you like.
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u/musicsegue618 Jul 06 '26 edited Jul 06 '26
That’s honestly not always how it works.
I’m a composer who leads my own big band which I had for 15 years. Several years ago we finally bit the bullet and recorded an album, filled with music written deeply from the heart by myself and my then co-leader (“write music you like”)… sinking ultimately $40,000 and work that spread over 3.5 years (recording session, a year where we had editing and mixing sessions once a week, trying to find a label, publicity, release, etc)…
Only to:
…Be turned down for almost nearly every grant…
…Not be accepted on any label (even really really small labels) and we ended up self releasing…
…We hired a radio publicist (jazz specific one), and almost all the stations declined our album because it was “too heavy a sell” (the music, which again was written authentically and from heart, was very intense and deep music) and the publicist, while he loved the music, even said that to have gotten more stations, we would’ve had to write something more traditional… but then we wouldn’t have been authentic…
…Very few reviews, and of the few we got, almost all were just rehashing of the press release, many of those just a three sentence blurb thrown in a potpourri of “other” albums at the bottom. One of the very few that wasn’t like that said “It is hard to envision where an audience for [album name] may lie.”…
…Hearing comments from others when they do listen to the album saying “Sounds like music smart people would write”…
…The album gets less than 10 listeners on average a month on streaming services currently…It was immensely demoralizing. There was no “People will come”. I was proud of my music and what me and the other band members created (they played their asses off!), but I refuse to listen to the album now (it may have a teeny part to do with that the then co-leader of the band was my then partner of 12 years and we broke up for unrelated reasons just before the release, but that’s not all of it). It was just embarrassment after embarrassment. And it wasn’t a lack of skill (I went to a top school to study, won several Jazz composition awards over the years, and the guy who produced our album is certainly recognized amongst the top in the big band scene who kept reassuring me the craft and story is there).
Yeah, Debbie Downer. But I’ve had it with “People will come.”
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Jul 06 '26
[deleted]
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Jul 06 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/composer-ModTeam Jul 06 '26
Hi. The rules of the sub require the sheet music to be supplied every time music is posted whether it's as a post or a comment. Thanks.
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u/Far_Huckleberry_2585 Jul 06 '26
Thats very true, that why i cant be bothered anymore to make music for people and sell it or games.
It just snaped, i should be doing it for me, not for money or opnions... At least i get it
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u/[deleted] Jul 06 '26 edited Jul 07 '26
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