r/country • u/bobbybernstei • 7h ago
Artist Appreciation Lets talk about David Allan Coe
In light of his recent passing and release of his posthumous album, I'd like to present my perspective here and hopefully the thread might take off and appear whenever folks google the man or look deeper into the sort of dude he was.
He obviously has a reputation for being controversial to say the least. That is fair and also something that i believe makes him compelling as an artist beyond his songwriting talent.
But he is also tarnished with the popular belief that he was deeply and disgustingly racist and wrote and recorded music reflecting as much.
Before diving into that ill be clear that i am a huge fan of DAC. I grew up listening to country music in the 90s and after a brief period of rebellion against the music my parents liked I came back around to country and it constitutes a large part of what i listen to. I like the classics like Merle and Jones and Willie. I like the Texas shit like Terry Allen, Ray Wilie Hubbard and Jerry Jeff. I like the intimate and vulnerable shit like Townes and Blaze. The 90s radio hits. And the modern torch bearers like Jason Isbell and Tyler Childers.
But this aint about me so back to Coe. When I came around to exploring his shit more deeply I was shocked to find an incredibly sensitive and unique musician. I had always taken his racist nature as common sense but the albums i was listening to didnt line up with that characterization and it led me further into his life as an artist.
The man was undoubtedly a sort of conflicted and contradictory character. To the extent that his retelling of his own life can be believed, growing up in reform school and prison as a midwestern white dude in the 50s and 60s did not lend itself to producing the most politically progressive people. At least not in the polished, pristine way that we perceive progressives to be nowadays.
And so Coe naturally carried a lot of that backwardness into his music and personal life. He speaks in vulgar ways about women especially, but also has a crude way of talking about race and other issues.
All that said, it seems clear to me that the perception of him as a white pride singer is just completely baseless to anyone willing to be open and honest about the man. He himself was incredulous about the accusations, pointing to his longtime black bandmates and his admiration for blues and his dreadlocks, among other things.
He certainly wrote some songs that on their face seem racist, but exploring his perspective that he was simply pushing boundaries as a songwriter and assuming different characters for the purpose of writing songs, its possible to see that he wasnt trying to write white pride anthems but got carried away with what was permissible for him to release to the wider world. That combined with his pretty widespread stubborn, chauvinistic machismo did not do him any favors when it was time to eat a little crow for it, and he unfortunately dug his hole deeper.
That said, it is hard for me to believe that the flamboyant and sensitive songwriter behind Require for a Harlequin or Once Upon a Rhyme was simultaneously a committed racist. He bore the same sort of racial chauvinism that many (if not most) white people bear (this is my woke talk where i start losing you...) but that is certainly applicable to damn near every other country artist of the era and applicable to damn near every white person to this day. Coe was just honest and uninhibited enough to not hide it in his music and thats another aspect of his work that makes him so unique in my opinion.
Beyond all this we can talk about his relationship with the Outlaw scene, his propensity to lie and fabricate aspects of his history. His questionable behavior as a father and husband. His evident bisexuality. Why tf he started hanging w Kid Rock.
But all in all the man is a pillar of country music, a stellar songwriter who ranks among the best of the best in any genre, not just country, and a man who unfortunately has not received his flowers in the country world (even if its largely his own fault).
Hopefully folks are willing to have civil discussions about all this
Edit: honestly im tryna help yall wokie country fans out. Its more woke to like Coe than hate on him.
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u/EntertainmentAny4368 7h ago
They will never put him in the Hall of Fame because of the X rated album. That being said he is well regarded among most country fans even though he did rub a lot of people the wrong way in the industry. I know. Johnny Paycheck is another one who on the surface is deserving to be on the Hall of Fame, but he won’t ever get in there due to his legal troubles involving underage girls
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u/CPerez94 7h ago
To me I’ve just heard enough second hand stories from family members and other artists that he was a pompous asshole and, at times, a lunatic that I have very little respect for him.
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u/mgntc0114 6h ago edited 6h ago
I think DAC would still be underrated even if he had a spotless moral record. He was a pretty weird guy, after all. Weird people tend to be loners.
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u/bobbybernstei 6h ago
Such a weird guy. His stint doing magic to open his shows in the late 70s/early 80s. His lone ranger fit. On some late night public access show talking about his experience with gay sex and why homophobia rubs him wrong. Endless strangeness to this guy and it makes him one of the most interesting country artists there is imo.
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u/PaintedJack 3h ago
Wow you weren't kidding!
“I heard in a movie one time, ‘You need to get in touch with your feminine side,’ ” he says. “Well, I’ve always been in touch with my feminine side. I’ve never been afraid to show that. I’m genderless, more or less.”
In 1997, at 58...!
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u/bobbybernstei 2h ago
Yes. I'm not making any moral judgements about the dude overall but I'm saying that he is a universe removed from the white pride, hick-country novelty that people often think he is. And theres always a good many who not only think thats what he is, but think theyre basically the Freedom Riders for condemning him on reddit and being completely unwilling to reexamine that thought for just a second.
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u/hellbillybeachbum 6h ago
He was a member of the Outlaws MC club, and they are very racist. My son was a chef at place that turned to nightclub at 10pm. The owner hired Outlaw members as security to keep out non-whites. Additionally, they are the white prison gang in FL. How racist he actually was in real life remains unknown other than the music he quit playing and the fact that he took the Stars and Bars off his guitar too. He apologized for his past words and actions, but it won’t ever be enough for those that want to condemn him.
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u/Background_Doubt6140 5h ago
A good friend of ours was a member of his crew so we went to quite a few of his shows in the 90’s. As talented as he was as a songwriter and so so vocalist he was not a good person. The drugs, gambling, drinking and women to excess determined what kind of show you would get and he could care less about the people that paid to see him. He was a terrible dad and even worse husband.
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u/inailedyoursister 6h ago
“He’s a complete racist but the times were different.” That’s what you sound like.
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u/bobbybernstei 6h ago
In what way?
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u/LoveYouLikeYeLovesYe 5h ago
"I had always taken his racist music as common sense" sounds horrible even in the full context of that paragraph dude
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u/bobbybernstei 5h ago
Well first off that isnt what i said and secondly the intended meaning was "i had always taken it as common knowledge that Coe was especially racist".
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u/inailedyoursister 2h ago
You’re brushing off an obviously racist bigot by saying “But still…”
Birds of a feather. I have no doubt how you feel about minorities. You’ve made your feelings known crystal clear.
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u/Sternojourno 5h ago
You're not going to get many Redditors chiming in who understand nuance and the complexity of human beings, and instead will probably just call you a racist for defending a "documented racist," but I think you hit the nail on the head.
Coe's catalog is a revelation, especially the 3 album run you mentioned. He is profoundly underrated as a songwriter and performer, primarily because he was, well, a documented asshole.
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u/bobbybernstei 5h ago
I remember seeing a few years ago that Johnny Knoxville (and by no means am I claiming he is a revered figure here) was working on a doc about Coe. I suppose in the vein of the Wild and Wonderful Whites of Weat Virginia which he had a hand in.
Im interested to see what pans out with that because i do think that something like that garnering some mainstream success could turn around a lot of people's opinions on Coe. Obv would be preferable if a more credentialed documentarian did it but still interested to see what happens.
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u/Available-Secret-372 6h ago
He’s a top tier songwriter and at times a talented singer but a notorious racist and asshole and all of this is well documented. He spent very little time in jail and embellished much of his history.
In my opinion, none of this takes away his contribution to the American songbook but as a man he is nobody to look up to.
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u/bobbybernstei 6h ago
See, if you read the post, my whole point is that he isnt a notorious racist and though this claim is oft repeated it actually isnt "well documented". The slightest look deeper into his work and life kinda dispells that and most folks who confidently make this accusation actually don't really know shit about the guy.
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u/kbchucker 2h ago
He is, in fact, known for being a brilliant songwriter. He is also known for being an unapologetic racist, asshole of a human being, and terrible family man.
We can talk about the great songs, but it is also fair if people want to judge him for the horribly racist songs he wrote, too. And he wrote some really, really terrible racist songs. They were horribly racist at the time, and they don’t get better with a “different times, different culture” whitewash attempt.
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u/bobbybernstei 2h ago
Brother. Youve literally just repeated the comment i responded to. What do you want, the exact response i gave him. He isnt known for being an unapologetic racist. Thats bullshit. I understand why you seem to believe that so assuredly. But you are incorrect.
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u/kbchucker 2h ago
You are being willfully ignorant or an apologist.
He’s never getting into the Hall of Fame because of his bigotry.
Go look up the Lyrics on the Underground Album. Especially the third song.
That’s the stuff he was willing to put out there for public consumption.
His show history iz riddled with stories of roadies, crew, and locals who witnessed him being a shitty person.
But hey, you do you. If it’s important for you to downplay and dismiss a man’s faults, that’s uo to you.
You won’t be taken seriously by a lot of people, but that’s your choice.
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u/bobbybernstei 2h ago
What are his horrible terrible no good very bad racist songs?
And be honest with me, did you know what they were without a google search?
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u/kbchucker 2h ago
Yes, I did. I have heard the albums myself.
Check out the lyrics on the Underground Album. Plenty more you can spend your own time searching through.
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u/bobbybernstei 1h ago
Great. Im glad youve heard the album. Now go read the text of the fucking thread youve wandered into and decided required your input as though you have a unique opinion that hasnt already been expressed numerous times here. A thread that addresses what youve said from the jump and offers another take on it. If youd like to do that instead of spinning your little wheels Id be happy to talk to you.
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u/bobbybernstei 6h ago
Doesnt it make you pause just a second that all you can offer here is a downvote and not any inclination to support the racist claim or understand why someone else might disagree w it...
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u/Available-Secret-372 4h ago
He very much is and had ridiculous demands in later years that excluded anyone from colour from backstage. People are complicated and sometimes good artists are shit people.
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u/bobbybernstei 4h ago
Im not even arguing the dude was a good person, whatever that means.
Whats your source on him disallowing people of color backstage at his shows?
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u/Available-Secret-372 4h ago
First hand knowledge.
He was a known bigamist and bigot but admire whoever you want to3
u/bobbybernstei 4h ago
Alright man, well forgive me if I'm not willing to take "trust me bro" evidence especially given what I know about him. He dismissed the claims he was racist anytime he was asked about it and that means basically anytime he was interviewed.
Ive encountered plenty of the white pride types and theyre not shy about their racism. They dont put "no blacks" on their rider and then play dumb for the camera.
Again, the "i have a black friend" card in-and-of itself doesnt mean much but in this case it would be difficult to preclude people of color backstage when your drummer is black. And Kerrys willingness to tolerate such a bigot must imply that he was either on some uncle Ruckus shit, was purely in it for the money, or was a weak and obsequious guy.
Why did Coe continue to deny the racism allegations publicly if it was so well known that had a whites only clause in his rider?
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u/SupportLiving5038 5h ago
Dillon weldon a YouTuber gathered some old band members, Rodies etc . I think it in johny cash old house where they tell stories from the years. Quite good I think.
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u/KapowBlamBoom 4h ago
My mom and I used to go to the little Ohio dive bar he got one of his first breaks at for lunch all the time
Picks in Morristown Ohio
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u/I_make_poor_decisons 1h ago
Are you talking about his prison shit? That stuff is just terribly indefensible in any realm of artistry. The Ride is a fantastic song but overall he’s pretty much a giant douchebag.
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u/Zizi_Tennenbaum 7h ago
And he grew and changed as he got older too. Modern audiences cannot STAND to see anyone reevaluatetheir opinions over time. You’re either Good Person or a Bad Person and any attempt to rethink how you express yourself means you’re fake. Allowing for nuance makes people “uncomfy” so no one is allowed to evolve.
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u/Lucky_Dragonfruit_88 2h ago
Spot on. Its like the gen Z kids saying Clapton is racist for one anti-immigration rant he said 60 years ago. They attempt to erase his lifetime of championing African American music.
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u/Indotex 5h ago
I upvoted you. As a songwriter & a musician, he was very talented.
I never went to one of his concerts but:
I went a Kid Rock show in Houston in about 2001. At one point, Kid Rock was sitting on a stool on stage and said, “This is Texas, you should enjoy some country, right?” He then started playing “You Don’t Have to Call Me Darlin’” and David Allen Coe walked out on stage to sing it with him.
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u/OrangeGringo 5h ago
Was anyone else at the show where he got ornery with security, told the crowd to push the security fences toward the stage, and got at least one girl hurt pretty bad because she got caught up in the big crowd movement? I was.
Dude’s a total clown and a jerk. That’s all there is to it.
Nevertheless, I love his music. I’m mature enough to separate the art from the artist.
Artist = awful person who probably had a hard life but was still a creep. Also bad personal hygiene.
Art = one of the best to ever do it.
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u/GreaterMetro 7h ago
White people calling other white people racist just bores the shit out of me.
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u/bobbybernstei 6h ago
Fascinating. Luckily the conversations other people have are not obligated to entertain you. You can go jerk off or something.
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u/GreaterMetro 6h ago
Funny you say that, because I find "white knight syndrome" to be a form of masturbation.
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u/doc_brietz 6h ago
What is with all of the DAC astroturfing I see in this sub? The dude had some crazy racist music he recorded. If you hand wave that, again, he is like the guy who gave himself his own nickname (you don’t do that) and then made it his personality. He probably would have been considered a part of the outlaw scene if he had just shut up about it. Maybe let the music do the talking.
I know country music is full of conservatism, maga, and what Wikipedia calls “right wing authoritarian” personalities. Like, it’s baked in. I get it. Partnering with Kid rock doesn’t do you any favors unless you don’t care what liberals and casual people think and you agree with that side of the isle.
All that aside, he was a good song writer, but a bit of a tryhard. A pilar? lol. Also the having black friends/bandmates/etc doesn’t make you a racist thing doesn’t sit well with me. I don’t buy it.
You can be controversial. Hank Jr. (another maga type) was similar to Coe in that he has a hell of a song writer but also controversial and a gifted singer. He was at least self aware enough to understand that his dad was a legend and that some may see him as a failure or a nepo baby. He has won plenty of awards and sold a lot of records. I don’t care for him much anymore because of his views, but he is 10x the everything Coe was.
I don’t know. Most people I know will only know him from 1 single song. I can’t stand the guy, but he had talent. I think that even if you can separate the art from the artist, he just wasn’t really all that good.
I can’t think of anyone to compare him to but I think he was as oblivious of everyone’s perception of him as, say, Luke Bryant is. It’s frustrating to see talent and ability be used for bro country just as it is somewhat outlaw country with a side of bitterness.
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u/bobbybernstei 6h ago
It appears that my post was too long-winded for anyone to read and engage with so this is turning into the tired old thread where people see DAC and and take turns calling him an obvious racist..
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u/hi-howdy 53m ago
Thanks for taking the time and effort to share all of your thoughts and facts about him. I didn’t know some of the things that you shared. All I know is that I grew up listening to his music, including his X rated album and I’m still listening to it. He was a good musician and a questionable character. That’s why I like him.
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u/gator_mckluskie 7h ago
i like david allan coe’s music, i think his version of “the ride” is a top five country tune of all time. calling him a pillar of country music is a stretch (honestly more like a leap). he’s well known by country music fans and in my opinion is appropriately rated.